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Author Topic: A strange thought....
Jman
Farting Nudist
Member # 618

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posted 01-07-2001 09:01 PM      Profile for Jman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Since I last came to Azure boards, 3 tournys/leagues were made. What came to my mind is.... the tournys are only for 8 or so people in each team(or if its a league, in a division). But what if someone made an incredibally large league with a lot of people? Its a large task, and I am not up to it(As some may remember from my league...), but maybe someone could organise this.

Now everyone says, but there would be too many people not battling! Simple, if one pair does not battle in the time alloted, throw em out, unless they make an attempt to battle their opponent. You have to be strict about these things, for it to work.

Do we want to try this? Someone want to step up? Give me comments, or something.... remember its just an idea....

------------------
A wise pokemon trainer once said-

"You can not catch even the strongest pokemon, until you get some balls."


From: da burgh | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jman
Farting Nudist
Member # 618

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posted 01-07-2001 09:27 PM      Profile for Jman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In addition, there would not be any teams. Its just a casual tourny like one you would find at teh mall tour, or somewhere else.

That just popped into my mind.

------------------
A wise pokemon trainer once said-

"You can not catch even the strongest pokemon, until you get some balls."


From: da burgh | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Sneakerton
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posted 01-07-2001 10:45 PM      Profile for Sneakerton   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I dunno if it's of any use to you or not...

But as soon as the CLST ends, I'm gonna be organizing a 64 player Double Elimination tournament with "alliances" rather than clear-cut board teams.

Still working out the exact method of signup, but needless to say, it'll be relatively free entry.

That is, assuming people actually want to play in it. There are so many tournaments going on that I'm not sure someone's holding a better one than me.

Oh well. I guess we'll see.

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"I'm a pussy."
- mr k mouth


From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
KeroKato
Farting Nudist
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posted 01-07-2001 11:29 PM      Profile for KeroKato   Author's Homepage   Email KeroKato   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I like the idea of no teams.
I mean, when ya got teams, only the best can enlist for representation purposes.
Without teams, any suck-pot can join with only having to worry 'bout individual ranking. Good Idea, JMan!

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From: I dunno, somewhere | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jman
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posted 01-08-2001 04:46 PM      Profile for Jman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I find teams to be discouraging to new people or not-so-great players, as the boards/team dosn't want them to be in it, because they want the best from their board(which is understandable, but still).

Anyways, thanks for the complement.

And sneakerton, thats getting towards what I was thinking. 64 is a lot of people, so maybe we should try it, and see what happens. Then, if it works, maybe you or me or someone else could organise an even larger tourney! And see who the real champion is!

------------------
A wise pokemon trainer once said-

"You can not catch even the strongest pokemon, until you get some balls."


From: da burgh | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jman
Farting Nudist
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posted 01-08-2001 04:54 PM      Profile for Jman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just anouther quick reply to my own message...

I think I may have just come up with the best idea for a large scale tournament. It sortof has teams, but they arn't necessary.

Now say we have 4 boards(this is just an example, there could be more, or less). Each board has sign ups, and up to say, 64 people from each board. Now the boards have their own tournament, that narrows it down to 16 or 8 people(or something, it depends on the number of boards/places). Then we combine those into a tourney, using the stats they had in the previous tournament, to make them into seeds or places(such as a first seed, like in March Madness college bball). The tourney then plays out. And we have a winner!
It would have to be double/triple ellimination, for the stats to actually have some meaning. Or forget the stats, and just put them in random order.

------------------
A wise pokemon trainer once said-

"You can not catch even the strongest pokemon, until you get some balls."


From: da burgh | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
White Cat
Nobody knows why I'm an admin.
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posted 01-08-2001 06:37 PM      Profile for White Cat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Jman: that's basically what the Inter-Board Tourney (IBT) several months ago was like.

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"This year, Toronto had a huge garbage problem. But he was re-elected anyway."
-- Jimmy & Seamus O'Toole, Royal Canadian Air Farce


From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Sneakerton
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posted 01-08-2001 07:01 PM      Profile for Sneakerton   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Jman, it would seem that you're pretty clueless as to how much work a tournament (especially lard scale) is. The CLST is only 32 players, and it's been a boatload of work.

This 64 player business that I'm planning will be pretty tough, but I think I'm up to it.

Getting that many people to play battles is damn tough, tho.

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"I'm a pussy."
- mr k mouth


From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jman
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posted 01-09-2001 04:53 PM      Profile for Jman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sneak, I held a tourney(actually, A league) a while ago, with only like 24 people. And it was tough. I know, thats why I can't take this incredibally huge task.

White Cat, I also know that. Well, there has to be a way to have a first tourney, and then, take that and move on to the finals. I assume tho, that some of the boards didn't have such a large tounament, I know azure did, but nothing else.

------------------
A wise pokemon trainer once said-

"You can not catch even the strongest pokemon, until you get some balls."


From: da burgh | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jman
Farting Nudist
Member # 618

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posted 01-09-2001 04:57 PM      Profile for Jman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sigh, anouther quick response.

Maybe we need a certain system of rankings... Kind of like the college BCS thingy. Maybe if we calculate the difficulty of the opponent based on their number(which would be calculated by this), with wins/losses and pokemon lost, and we come up with a big number, and subtract it by 100....... And... I am confused...

------------------
A wise pokemon trainer once said-

"You can not catch even the strongest pokemon, until you get some balls."


From: da burgh | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Sneakerton
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posted 01-09-2001 06:51 PM      Profile for Sneakerton   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I thought about that too, Jman.

It's not worth the effort to get people to play all these games when they're only gonna play one or two or three in a tournament.

Believe me, the current system works fine.

------------------
"I'm a pussy."
- mr k mouth


From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jman
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posted 01-13-2001 06:19 PM      Profile for Jman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have a new idea, but this involves having a group of "Judges". In this league, say we have oh... 100 people. Now with this we randomly create a season with like 10 matches(so say I am one guy, and then I am randomly paired with Sneakerton in Round 1.). So we give them a deadline to find those ten people and battle them(2 months or so). They get a record, and the top 32(64?) make the playoffs. Straight tourney from there, with the top seed battling the bottom seed, 2nd with 2nd to last, etc.

So hows that? Its like the college basketball thing, just instead of having a time you have a deadline to battle.

EDIT: Forgot to add about the Judges. Basically the are on PBS whenever they feel like it, and they see if people are making an effort to compete. If no one sees someone for a large quantity of time without, say an email explaining the problem/whatever, they are booted, and the people who have a match against them get a free win. Heck, we could also have the judges have a "Top 25", and rank different people!
------------------
A wise pokemon trainer once said-

"You can not catch even the strongest pokemon, until you get some balls."

[This message has been edited by Jman (edited 01-13-2001).]


From: da burgh | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Power Soul Rebirth
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posted 01-13-2001 07:16 PM      Profile for Power Soul Rebirth   Email Power Soul Rebirth   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jman:
Maybe we need a certain system of rankings... Kind of like the college BCS thingy. Maybe if we calculate the difficulty of the opponent based on their number(which would be calculated by this), with wins/losses and pokemon lost, and we come up with a big number, and subtract it by 100....... And... I am confused...

This is a good idea. However, rather than try and come up with out own formular to determine such ratings, it'd be quicker and most likely more effective to just borrow one from somewhere else. At the end of the season, one could just take the top 16 rated players and play them off in a single-elemination tournament.

If you think this is a good idea, I'll try and find a system like this.

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Even at his most powerless, man's exsistance is never without meaning.


From: Somewhere | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jman
Farting Nudist
Member # 618

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posted 01-13-2001 09:08 PM      Profile for Jman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Monkey League has a system that I think is preatty good. But, I can't get on to their page at the moment(it says I am still building my site).

------------------
A wise pokemon trainer once said-

"You can not catch even the strongest pokemon, until you get some balls."


From: da burgh | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jman
Farting Nudist
Member # 618

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posted 01-13-2001 09:32 PM      Profile for Jman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hmmm.... I am thinking about actually starting this........

But I doubt it.

Sneakerton, I could help you with your 64/whatever person league, if you would like. I dunno if I could do one by myself....

------------------
A wise pokemon trainer once said-

"You can not catch even the strongest pokemon, until you get some balls."


From: da burgh | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jman
Farting Nudist
Member # 618

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posted 01-13-2001 09:41 PM      Profile for Jman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I found the Formula the Monkey League:

Example:

Bob has 5 wins and 7 losses.

So he has a score of 103. How?

5 wins x 2= 10
7 losses x 1=7
10 - 7= 3
100 + 3= 103

That works preatty well. It makes people have to try and win as many games as possible without having them win like 2 and lose 0 and win the division.

------------------
A wise pokemon trainer once said-

"You can not catch even the strongest pokemon, until you get some balls."


From: da burgh | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Power Soul Rebirth
Farting Nudist
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posted 01-13-2001 10:36 PM      Profile for Power Soul Rebirth   Email Power Soul Rebirth   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, this is what I've found. It's a bit more complex than the Monkey system, but I rekon it would work well. If it looks familiar, it might be, as it's an adaptation or the Starcraft ladder system.

Each player has a rating, for players who have not played before, this rating is 1000.

Each player also has a number associated with them (N), which is either 50, 30 or 20. 50 is for people who haven't played much, 30 for normal players and 20 for players with very high ratings.

When a game is played, the winner's rating is increased by N * (1 - K) and the loser's rating is reduced by N * (K).

K is calculated by the following formula :
K = 1 / (1 + 10^((difference in ratings) / 400))

...I just noticed that that IS kinda complex, but it shouldn't pose too much of a problem. ^_^;;

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Even at his most powerless, man's exsistance is never without meaning.


From: Somewhere | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jman
Farting Nudist
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posted 01-14-2001 06:58 PM      Profile for Jman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah... I still don't fully understand it....

Ehh... Wanna start this after the CLST?

Or not?

Dosn't matter to me, I've got webspace, know HTML, etc. I could use help, if you would like, or if Sneak wants, I could help him.

------------------
A wise pokemon trainer once said-

"You can not catch even the strongest pokemon, until you get some balls."


From: da burgh | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Power Soul Rebirth
Farting Nudist
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posted 01-15-2001 04:38 PM      Profile for Power Soul Rebirth   Email Power Soul Rebirth   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The main gist of it is that if you play someone that's rated higher than you, then you can improve your rating by a lot if you win, but won't lose as many points if you lose. Conversely, if you play someone that's rated lower than you, then you won't gain as many points if you win, but will lose a fair bit if you lose.

[edit] Also, if you want my help, I'll willingly give it to you.

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Even at his most powerless, man's exsistance is never without meaning.

[This message has been edited by Power Soul Rebirth (edited 01-15-2001).]


From: Somewhere | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jman
Farting Nudist
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posted 01-16-2001 03:47 PM      Profile for Jman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Who! Thats brilliant PSR!

No wonder why I am not doing so well in Algebra....

I may start this, thanks for your willingness to help me....

I suppose that you will be my second in command. And you will figure out their ratings :P. Okay, now its time to start creating the site, i'll email you all the details after I start making the frame of it.

------------------
A wise pokemon trainer once said-

"You can not catch even the strongest pokemon, until you get some balls."


From: da burgh | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jumpman16
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posted 01-16-2001 06:11 PM      Profile for Jumpman16   Author's Homepage   Email Jumpman16   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, the idea's brilliant, but it's still flawed for one major reason; some people can be rather assish. I used to play Spades: Ladders at Yahoo!®.com under the same idea, but when people get to be of rather high rank, they really don't want to play anyone of a lower rank. The reasons are twofold: They would rather play the #1 or #2 ranked player in order to raise their own rank, and they don't want to risk a defeat to said player with lower rank. Hence it's understandable why a higher ranked player would be reluctant to play a lower ranked player. Most people would actually react in a similar manner. Nevertheless, this does not relieve them of their assish label. Therefore, a different method of determining/recognizing rank is worth examining.
From: Where they make Heinz® ketchup | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Power Soul Rebirth
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posted 01-16-2001 06:52 PM      Profile for Power Soul Rebirth   Email Power Soul Rebirth   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
By limiting the higher rated player's N values, we limit the number of points they can lose at one time. If the number one player in the tourney got soundly thrashed by a newbie, he would lose 20 points at most. This is to stop an unlucky battle from ruining a player's rating completely.

I've made the necessary preparations here, ready to start whenever you're ready, Jman.

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Even at his most powerless, man's exsistance is never without meaning.


From: Somewhere | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged


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