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Author Topic: the black guy
MewtwoSama
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posted 10-10-2008 10:05 PM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
McCain has to defend Obama at his KKK rallies and Palin abused her power.

What a fun day.

[That Guy]

From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 10-15-2008 05:31 PM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
10K: Fact check this for me plz

It's pretty much impossible, because everyone only talks about the figures that benefit their argument.

This article talks only about taxes, but doesn't address health care costs. If you save on taxes, but your insurance costs increase, then all we've got is another a complicated way for Republicans to funnel more citizen funds to large corporations (eg, Halliburton, Exxon, pharmaceutical companies, etc.)

One thing that is clear that the free market does not result in a desirable situation when it comes to insurance. Another is that giving individuals the "freedom" to fail on these complex issues will result in failure (see: current mortgage implosion, private retirement funds vs. old skool pensions, etc.) that affects everyone, even the psychotically selfish.

Obama's plan is probably a baby step towards socialized medicine (although it could be done with highly-regulated private companies, as other countries have done), since it would get a generation of children enrolled in a government plan. If it works, they'll want to keep it forever.

Giving citizens more cash via tax cuts doesn't fix the fundamental problem with the health care system, although Obama's plan might be too pussy to make any serious progress. It matches with his "slow and steady" style, though, so at least I believe that's his actual plan.

Whether or not it would work probably depends on how much of health care "crisis" there really is. If you map that against what is possible, maybe he's chosen the best path.

Kind of like how I want him to stomp McCain in the debates and call him on all his lies...to me, the point of a debate would be to prove your superiority by actually winning it. Obama is smarter than me, however, and has realized that Americans don't care about who wins (maybe they are incapable of detecting a winner), they only want to imagine both guys as president and see who seems to be the best fit.

If he's right about the debate thing, maybe he's right about the best way to fix health care.

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
10,000Lb.Snorlax
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posted 10-17-2008 12:46 PM      Profile for 10,000Lb.Snorlax   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. K:
Obama's plan is probably a baby step towards socialized medicine

"I Believe when you spread wealth around it's good for everybody." I think that's pretty telling quote from B.O. and one that personally grosses me out. To each their own though! You like the steps he wants to take to these ends and I abhor them.

What do you think Sama?

From: Denver | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 10-17-2008 06:17 PM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ignoring the fact that this is the basis of civilization, the economy improves when more consumers have more money. When wealth is concentrated among few people, the economy slows down...which means less money for you.

I suppose it's possible that you are holding economic philosophy above your own personal wealth, but that doesn't sound like the 10K we know and love.

- - - - -
newbalance is my favorite shoe because they combine style and comfort in an affordable package suitable for people of all ages.

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
MewtwoSama
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posted 10-18-2008 12:20 AM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 10,000Lb.Snorlax:
What do you think Sama?



- - - - -
Hade ni ikuze!

From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Dragonite21
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posted 10-18-2008 08:09 AM      Profile for Dragonite21     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 


[ 10-18-2008, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: Dragonite21 ]

Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
10,000Lb.Snorlax
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posted 10-20-2008 11:31 AM      Profile for 10,000Lb.Snorlax   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
hehe. Giving money away to people with less of it is hardly the basis of civilization, nor is it, and opposite what the black guy asserts, good for everybody (which is obvious).

Oh man! John Stewart just landed another hilarious zing at Sarah Palin!! ROFL

What was I saying? Must not have been very important. Caribou Barbie LOL she sucks.

From: Denver | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 10-20-2008 01:06 PM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
10K: Giving money away to people with less of it is hardly the basis of civilization...

Pooling resources is the basis of civilization.

Also fixing roads is not a handout to the poor.

...nor is it, and opposite what the black guy asserts, good for everybody (which is obvious).

Actually, it is, but I wouldn't expect you to accept facts or do any research.

More to the point, the government is currently redistributing wealth from the poor to the rich. Obama is suggesting that we do less of that. Perhaps because you compress all thought to a few words spoonfed to you by some news outlet (or maybe it's your irrational hatred of reality), you have misinterpreted Obama's position.

You like telling us about all your electronics purchases, so maybe you make more than $250K/year. If you don't and you want to keep more of your own money, vote for Obama.

Caribou Barbie LOL she sucks.

The shit that passes for political discourse in your mind is so depressing.

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
MewtwoSama
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posted 10-20-2008 02:33 PM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. K:
[QB]

You like telling us about all your electronics purchases, so maybe you make more than $250K/year. If you don't and you want to keep more of your own money, vote for Obama.

Tax break down
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html

- - - - -
Hade ni ikuze!

From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
10,000Lb.Snorlax
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posted 10-20-2008 08:31 PM      Profile for 10,000Lb.Snorlax   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"pooling resources" nice phrase! ;D

I guess if you say that giving my money away behooves me -- well then I guess it does! Let me just wipe my mind of all critical thinking that may have offended you and join the peace train.

[That Guy]

yay socialism! Boo Caribou Barbie! ROFL jon Stewart!

From: Denver | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
MewtwoSama
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posted 10-21-2008 12:48 AM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 10,000Lb.Snorlax:
I guess if you say that giving my money away behooves me -- well then I guess it does!

You're not giving away money. You're paying for my medicine.

Thank you for that.

- - - - -
Hade ni ikuze!

From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
starCaliber
is evil and also MewtwoSama
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posted 10-21-2008 12:03 PM      Profile for starCaliber   Email starCaliber   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think it's pretty clear that B-Rock's actually got a plan for a healthcare system that doesn't suck (his effectiveness in executing same remains to be seen, of course), and McCain could really give a shit less because "hurr we give you money" is a good way of tricking moron Americans into thinking they're getting the better deal overall. I know I talk about cellphones a lot (it's because I love them), but if you think for a minute this isn't the case, just ask the 25 billion stupid faggots carrying Motorola RAZRs because they were "free" with a technology-growth-stifling hideously overpriced and underfunctional Verizon contract.

Saying "hurf durf private sector hurf durf" works for some things, and for others it gets you criminal bullshit like Comcast, the American wireless cartel, and healthcare that's pointlessly expensive; whereas socializing it would pretty obviously make even "the good stuff" cheaper for even the snootiest of fuckheads. Buy in bulk and saaaaaave, son. [Cool] Even if the government totally sucks at supplying healthcare (possibly but unlikely), their presence in the market will drive private insurance offerings to suck less: maybe they'll be cheaper, maybe they'll offer lower deductibles, maybe they'll hook you up with better doctors. There is basically nothing bad that can come out of this, and the more I think about it the more I realize that my USPS example was short-sighted: how much more would UPS and FedEx shipping cost if USPS weren't dishing out mediocrity by the asshole-full to keep them honest?

University health centers are another great example. You can buy all kinds of random shit more cheaply than the local pharmacy will sell it -- e.g. birth control pills, morning-after pills for when you forget to use your birth control pills, abortions for when you forget to use your morning after pills, etc. -- because the health center buys it in bulk. You can go in and at least have a physician take a look at you for free most of the time, and the (admittedly limited) range of treatments offered are often deeply-discounted. Students pay a minimal health fee for this kind of thing, and nobody's ever pissed about it. It's not a perfect analogy, but I feel like it's a good indicator.

As far as things that I personally care about (and that mouthbreather voters and the candidates by proxy, don't), I found this article that discusses their positions. It's comforting to see that even McCain's (allegedly) cool with not using "child porn" as a crutch to censor content like the shitheads down under are doing. On the other hand, I don't think I really agree with Barack's scheme to blow a bunch of money on computers in schools. My high school had some sort of bonus "technology funding" program to buy computers, and they managed to horsefuck their way into becoming an "all Mac campus" which translated at the time to a bunch of fuckawful gaudy turqoise and pink "iMacs" that perpetuated the idea to my already-computer-fucktarded peer group that the computer and the monitor were the same thing, and ran Mac OS 9 which was a worthless pile of shitcake even in its prime.

I feel like phsyical computer hardware is an area where the private sector has done a bang-up job. Any Nigerian boy living in the United States can mow lawns for a summer to scrounge up one of those $199 Wal-Mart Linux PCs, then he can use BitTorrent and his wits to pirate a copy of Windows XP for it, then he can start scamming people with Nigerian prince ads on craigslist, and the next thing you know he's rolling his own four thousand dollar gaming rig and developing contracted .NET apps for Fortune 500 companies from the comfort of his cave or whatever.

I agree with the broadband lines, though -- even if it delays the smackdown that our telcos need to have laid on them. There shouldn't be a single city in the U.S. where you have to use a dial-up modem to get your goat porn.

From: San Francisco, CA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
10,000Lb.Snorlax
loves long time.
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posted 10-22-2008 12:07 PM      Profile for 10,000Lb.Snorlax   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"I think it's pretty clear that B-Rock's actually got a plan for a healthcare system that doesn't suck "

no - not really. :[

[ 10-22-2008, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: 10,000Lb.Snorlax ]

From: Denver | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
starCaliber
is evil and also MewtwoSama
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posted 10-22-2008 02:59 PM      Profile for starCaliber   Email starCaliber   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 10,000Lb.Snorlax:
"I think it's pretty clear that B-Rock's actually got a plan for a healthcare system that doesn't suck "

no - not really. :[

sorry man, I believe in the power of buying in bulk. do you have a Costco membership?

i want a Costco membership for hurting myself [Cool] (even if I never need to use it)

[ 10-22-2008, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: starCaliber ]

From: San Francisco, CA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
MewtwoSama
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posted 10-22-2008 07:14 PM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I go costco and get a hotdog for $1.50. It comes with a drink.

Sometimes, I get the pizza.

My favorite is the hand dipped ice cream bar. That is really good.

- - - - -
Hade ni ikuze!

From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 10-23-2008 01:57 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
10K: "pooling resources" nice phrase!

Because that's what Obama is talking about. He's not talking about giving your money to a poor person. The government does things and someone's got to pay for them.

This whole "socialism" thing is just old skool red-baiting. Most Americans like the programs we have that resemble socialism, and society cannot function without them. You, for example, don't even know what socialism is, but you fear it.

Bush just nationalized the banks and you're worried about some comment Obama made that you don't even understand.

As Cal points out, there is great value in the lumbering mediocrity of giant government programs. We'd be completely fucked right now if we'd privatized Social Security. One of the great benefits of a big fat slow plan is consistency. It also prevents over-reliance on trends, like sub-prime loans.

This model doesn't work for everything, obviously, but there's nothing to fear from the Postal Service or the interstate highway system.

Let me just wipe my mind of all critical thinking...

Sadly, you don't know what critical thinking is either.

This gets to Cal's point about our shitty educational system. I have a few friends who are teachers and they completely agree with Cal's point. They don't even think they are particularly underpaid or that the schools are underfunded, but that the money is spent in terrible ways by people who have Peter Principled themselves to the top of the heap.

Not sure the best way to deal with this. You can't turn the system over to a free market approach, because market forces will work to marginalize the worst students so they don't affect each school's bottom line. "No Child Left Behind" has been a dismal failure, and "teaching to the tests" has fucked up a generation of students.

That said, you have to have some standards, and if you can't pass the ludicrously easy standardized tests, then you really don't deserve to graduate.

I think the problem has been in attacking the symptoms instead of the root cause. American scores were low, so they passed legislation to say "raise the scores!". There was no serious attempt to figure out wtf we've been doing wrong for so long and solve that problem, which would result in the scores rising on their own.

The problem is that we need smart, rational people to design the educational programs, and those guys are usually driven out of government. An Obama administration would likely value intelligence, learning, and pragmatism (see this TIME puff piece for some interesting examples), so I have some hope they'd be able to figure out a solution.

For one thing, he's acknowledged that solving the energy problem will fix many things at once (the economy, terrorism, global warming, low opinion of America both at home and abroad, etc.) and applying money to that problem will result in benefits across the board. That's a refreshing, un-10K-like view of the world that we need more of.

Boo Caribou Barbie! ROFL jon Stewart!

We need a lot less of whatever the fuck that is.

There's a new study out that shows that paying students for good grades actually works. My initial reaction is abject horror, but if this is what it takes to get students to take education seriously, maybe it's a reasonable plan. We're currently throwing a lot of money at the problem in stupid ways. We don't seem to have a shortage of money, and when money is cheaper than good ideas, maybe this is the best use of it.

A more adult way to handle the situation would be to convince idiots like 10K that learning has value. Making a cultural change like that is incredibly tricky, especially when the nation is populated with idiots who don't understand education (due to the shitty school system), much less have any respect for it.

I still think Sesame Street had more to do with limiting the affects of racism than it ever gets credit for. There's got to be some analogous under-the-radar solution for this problem.

Maybe after a generation of tricking kids into being smart by paying them, society would change on its own, but there's got to be a better way.

[ 10-23-2008, 02:10 AM: Message edited by: Mr. K ]

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
10,000Lb.Snorlax
loves long time.
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posted 10-23-2008 12:43 PM      Profile for 10,000Lb.Snorlax   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"This whole "socialism" thing is just old skool red-baiting"

no it isn't. Wealth distribution is socialism. It's fine if you are in favor of Socialism - just don't act like that is not what you are advocating (like "I'm advocating 'Better'" -- because you are not -- you are advocating socialism).

"As Cal points out, there is great value in the lumbering mediocrity of giant government programs. We'd be completely fucked right now if we'd privatized Social Security. One of the great benefits of a big fat slow plan is consistency. It also prevents over-reliance on trends, like sub-prime loans."

"The sequence is always the same. High-tax, big-spending policies force the economy to lose momentum. Then growth in government spending outstrips revenues. Fiscal and trade deficits soar. Public debt, excessive taxation and unemployment follow. The central bank tries to solve the problem by printing money. International competitiveness is lost and the currency depreciates. The system stagnates. And then a frightened electorate returns conservatives to power" http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122463231048556587.html

"The sequence is always the same. High-tax, big-spending policies force the economy to lose momentum. Then growth in government spending outstrips revenues. Fiscal and trade deficits soar. Public debt, excessive taxation and unemployment follow. The central bank tries to solve the problem by printing money. International competitiveness is lost and the currency depreciates. The system stagnates. And then a frightened electorate returns conservatives to power"
http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=12429544

"I have a few friends who are teachers and they completely agree with Cal's point."

well argued! The prosecution rests. Much more insight than The Economist or professor of economics at Carnegie Mellon.

"There's a new study out that shows that paying students for good grades actually works. My initial reaction is abject horror, but if this is what it takes to get students to take education seriously, maybe it's a reasonable plan."

is this a joke?

Capitalism encourages students to do well and learn with the reward of higher paying jobs and better opportunities. Doctors go through 8 years of school and terrible ER indentured servitude so that they can make $$$$$$ when they're done.

I don't believe you think we should be paying poorly performing students to encourage them to do well in school. That's beyond socialism - that's some sort of fucked up reverse meritocracy. Hmm maybe the government should give tax cuts to families of students that do poorly in school then they will be better able to study (because lack of money prohibits academic achievement). Perhaps the families of the students that are doing well in school can pay for such a program. They obviously have a largess of resources that should be "pooled" for better use by those in need.

Alternatively we could raise the salary of public educators -- the more money that they earn the better teachers there will be, right? does government spending solve all social problems? At what point is the individual (student, parent, teacher) responsible for education? The market forces already exist to encourage them all to succeed at their tasks. How many apple computers need to be purchased to make people finish highschool?

"The problem is that we need smart, rational people ... and those guys are usually driven out of government."

Caribou Barbie!

"An Obama administration would likely value intelligence, learning, and pragmatism..., so I have some hope they'd be able to figure out a solution."

compared to what?

(Oh yeah - a nuevo George Bush with horns and a crucifix-as-axe who eats gays and shits oil. Yes you are right Obama is definitely the superior choice to a non democrat.)

the reality being that both candidates are smart people that value intelligence and pragmatism. As for driving for energy independence, imo mccain is more than obama. While both support alternative, clean energies, in the meantime old white guy would tap domestic resources and build nuclear plants. Just because obama can act like oil is dirty and unneeded and a clean rehaul is as easy as saying so -- doesn't remove practicality from the mix. Until energy nirvana is attained (not as simple as obama saying it will be when he is president) The US ecomony requires oil to move good and services. It is a neccessity. Acting like it is a relic that is simply replaced is dishonest and false. It will be eventually -- but in the meantime let's use our resources in order to help get us there.

"You like telling us about all your electronics purchases, so maybe you make more than $250K/year"

And you like to go to the zoo - so maybe you like to fuck dromedaries.

From: Denver | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
starCaliber
is evil and also MewtwoSama
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posted 10-23-2008 02:06 PM      Profile for starCaliber   Email starCaliber   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 10,000Lb.Snorlax:
Wealth distribution is socialism. It's fine if you are in favor of Socialism - just don't act like that is not what you are advocating

I can't speak for my boy Jef, but I absolutely favor socialism where it makes sense.

The key here (and the disconnect in this thread) is "where it makes sense." It's not all or nothing, I don't think anyone here is advocating all or nothing, and the quote you dropped in once and then dropped in again because you loves the copy and the paste ( [Mad] ) is a sweeping generalization that doesn't fit.

A person's not a communist/socialist/anti-American if they say "hey, let's take a step back here and see if it wouldn't make a lot of sense for everyone if this specific thing that's not working well were socialized," -- they're a person making a practical evaluation. If that person turned around and started blindly trying to socialize everything (which you seem to suggest that anyone in favor of Obama's healthcare plan would), they're just as bad as the tards who refuse to critically evaluate alternatives to something we're doing that's not working, out of an irrational fear of trying something different.

Socializing healthcare appears to make good sense for everyone if it's done properly. The point of an election is to pick someone competent enough to do things properly.

The thing that drives me fucking crazy about this election are the folks running around bitching about how they don't want to see B-Rock roll his blingin'-rims (hybrid) Escalade loaded with only the finest watermelons into the White House because he's somehow an "elite" or a "snooty Harvard Law" guy, and they want to vote for a dummy they can relate to. I want to vote for someone smarter than me. The whole gimmick of the U.S. presidency is that it's a hard fuckin' job. If we could engineer some kind of super-elite outer space alien that was even smarter and better-educated and snootier than 30 Obamas combined, I would vote for that thing.

The best point you've made against socialized healthcare so far is the question of how to exclude/overcharge people who voluntarily partake in activities that make them higher risk, but even that's not a fair stab. How are they dealt with now? If someone without insurance puffs five packs of cancer sticks a day and has to be rushed to the hospital and treated as a direct result (but then can't pay the bill later), it's too late -- they've already been treated. Someone else pays for that now anyway, so we'd might as well be honest with ourselves and have an organized policy for how to subsidize that bullshit -- we'll even save some money in the process.

What activities are fair to flag? How much more is fair to charge high-risk motherfuckers past a mandatory buy-in? What's the best way to get a basic level of treatment out to those folks as cost-effectively as possible so that they don't fag it up for the rest of us? I don't know, but I sure would like to have a snooty, well-educated dude go and figure it out for me.

From: San Francisco, CA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 10-24-2008 03:01 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
First of all, I'm just going to use the term "socialism" in the pop culture sense, because 10K doesn't know what the fuck it is anyway, and it's convenient for our discussion.

10K: Wealth distribution is socialism.

As Warren Buffett said a few days ago another word for wealth distribution is "economy".

It's fine if you are in favor of Socialism...

In this discussion apparently Socialism is the Big Gulp Lady 10K irrationally fears.

Anything that needs to be done for society but doesn't directly generate profit is (in the general use of the term) socialistic, and is not a good match for the free market. This includes roads, cops, education, the military, the space program, safety regulation, and a thousand other things you like that would not be reasonably handled in a free market.

"Socialism" is already here on a huge scale, whether it's banks or corporations that are "too big to fail" or basic services that, one way or another, are going to be paid for by the taxpayer.

There's just no merit to the claim that altering the tax code is in any detectable way more or less "socialistic" than things are now.

People are simply using the word socialism in a political context to whip up the uneducated, reactionary retards.

As for those quotes:



It's also a given that an unregulated free market is a complete disaster.

"There's a new study out that shows that paying students for good grades actually works. My initial reaction is abject horror, but if this is what it takes to get students to take education seriously, maybe it's a reasonable plan."

is this a joke?


That's what I thought when I first heard it, but if it works, it works.

I don't believe you think we should be paying poorly performing students to encourage them to do well in school.

You should like the plan. It would pay all students, so no poor people would have access to something your kid wouldn't.

I think there are probably negative ramifications to suggesting that the only reason to get an education is to get money (although I'd imagine you'd like that part as well). And good grades don't necessarily translate into actual learning. On the other hand, society breaks down when people can't fucking read and it would be nice if America didn't have to continue to import all of its greatest scientific minds, so it's worth thinking about.

My point is that you have to think outside the box, and you can't explode into blind rage the first time you see a Big Gulp Lady and close off any avenues of thought.

I would prefer that kids actually understand that school is not punishment and that learning can be fun and knowledge gives you some degree of control over your life. I didn't get that memo when I was a kid, so I hated skool and hated reading and tried to figure out how to get out of learning anything. I bailed on advanced classes because I didn't see how they were doing anything other than inconveniencing me.

I had a few decent teachers in hi skool who opened my eyes, although I'd already wasted most of my public skool career by then. In kollege I had to work this out my own, because classes there were also, for the most part, boring and poorly-designed.

I'd like to reform all that, as well as give teachers the societal respect that doctors and lawyers have, because their jobs are by far the most important jobs in the land. I'd like to erase the whole "Those who can do, those who can't teach." meme and fire every last one of those lousy teachers who taught me (or at least retrain them to use better methods).

But all that is way fucking hard. Attempts to throw money at the problem have not worked. Teachers make reasonable salaries, but they get no fucking respect. So the free market isn't going to fix it that way.

If giving kids cash for good grades actually works, even if it seems to violate everything we think we know about education, it might be worth trying. If DDR can trick kids into exercising than there are any number of other counterintuitive things out there that can benefit society.

You can't live in fear of Big Gulp Lady.

Just because obama can act like oil is dirty and unneeded and a clean rehaul is as easy as saying so -- doesn't remove practicality from the mix.

That's why he accepts that nuclear, oil, and coal are a part of our future, although he obviously doesn't prefer them.

[ 10-24-2008, 03:04 AM: Message edited by: Mr. K ]

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
starCaliber
is evil and also MewtwoSama
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posted 10-26-2008 11:52 AM      Profile for starCaliber   Email starCaliber   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
so B-Rock's coming to speak today, about 50 feet away from our apartment building.

we gon' walk over and check that out.

From: San Francisco, CA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
10,000Lb.Snorlax
loves long time.
Member # 13

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posted 10-27-2008 05:14 PM      Profile for 10,000Lb.Snorlax   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've come to grips with the fact (once again) that the world will not explode when obama is elected. In fact I doubt much will change on a day to day basis in terms of my personal experience. If anything though hundreds of thousands of Americans will be happier and people around the world will think more favorably of America, which is actually a pretty great thing. Perception creates reality, so perhaps simply by advocating happiness, betterness and hope these things will come to pass.

I guess you call this stage "Acceptance" [Wink]

/takes hit of Hope

mmmm. that's good stuff. Got any Change or Black Eyed Peas youtube mixes I can get in on?

From: Denver | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
Racist
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posted 10-28-2008 04:23 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cal: we gon' walk over and check that out.

Hopefully you didn't decide to go with formal attire and wear a white tux and top hat. That would have been awkward.

Any cell phone video?

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Uiru
Sketch Molester
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posted 10-28-2008 12:07 PM      Profile for Uiru   Author's Homepage   Email Uiru   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Man, I just had to go like seven passwords back to get in here. Should probably change that.

So this thread is literally the only thing on the site that keeps me coming back right now. Something I've noticed is that yes, opponents of "evil Socialism" don't seem to know what socialism actually is. Now, the interesting part is that it appears the Republicans have just endorsed doing something to the banks, I can't remember exactly what, making them public or something, but whatever it was, it's one of the core tenets of- surprise!- socialism. I'd be interested in learning more about that, and hearing thoughts from both sides.

Also, the idea arose from a few Repubs on RPGamer (lol dt) that public health care is somehow inferior to private, and then a list of problems with the Canadian/British/etc health care systems are given. The problem is that this information is all heresay from mostly other Americans. Try asking a Canadian what he thinks of his free health care (it's awesome!) for a little perspective. It's not perfect, but the problems Canada has, for instance, are symptoms of other issues and not with the public system itself.

Please, continue. [PBJ Time!]
~Uiru

[ 10-28-2008, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: Uiru ]

- - - - -
TIDUDSOFIEIHUGHEXXXC: "maybe he will let you touch his blow up do"

AFRO NOOOOOOO!!!

From: the floating castle of Newfoundland | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
starCaliber
is evil and also MewtwoSama
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posted 10-28-2008 08:11 PM      Profile for starCaliber   Email starCaliber   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. K:
Any cell phone video?

No cellphone video from the middle of the crowd (because seriously who wants to see that), but here's a crappy snapshot from where we were standing. We sauntered over there just a half hour before he went on, and the highlight of the excursion was discovering that the delicious burrito joint a quarter-block north of the venue had nobody in line. [Cool] Delicious lunch, a Vote For Change from "fukken starving" to "god damn I'm stuffed" if I've ever seen one.

They're saying that 45-50,000 people showed up, and I'd certainly believe it. Interesting fun facts are that our entire city is only 120,000 folks, the venue was about 1/16th of the campus (at a school of ~30,000 students that's already stupid-overcrowded), and our county went Bush in 2004. It will be neat to see how things shake out, and I think it's cute and exciting that Colorado's electoral votes actually count for a little sumpin'-somethin' this year.

I can't imagine anyone cares since I'm sure it's basically the same speech he gives everywhere, but the video of it is here (right sidebar, 3 parts).

The most annoying part for me was when the drone-fucks flung themselves into one of those rhythmic "yes we can" chants. I like to entertain the idea that Obama fanatics are generally rational people who might think kind of like I do, but you've got to admit there's something of an unnerving pre-WWII Germany quality to the "OH MY GOD WE NEED CHANGE WE THIRST FOR IT" mentality of B-Rock voters in this election.

I tell myself it's just silly propaganda enthusiasm heightened by the Bush reign of fucktardedry, but man, you gotta wonder.

~Uiru

From: San Francisco, CA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
MewtwoSama
Asshole
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posted 10-29-2008 01:33 AM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 10,000Lb.Snorlax:
/takes hit of Hope

mmmm. that's good stuff. Got any Change or Black Eyed Peas youtube mixes I can get in on?

Have some more hope
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW-6DpC-mj8

oh fuck
~Uiru

[ 10-29-2008, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: MewtwoSama ]

- - - - -
Hade ni ikuze!

From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
10,000Lb.Snorlax
loves long time.
Member # 13

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posted 10-29-2008 01:02 PM      Profile for 10,000Lb.Snorlax   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Uiru - hm when I was in Honduras I did talk to some Canadians. Their experiences were very opposite yours. No surprise there -- just like currently, some people love it while others not so much. The "universal" part doesn't relate to quality.

and just when I'm about to turn a blind eye to americans voting for socialism, I am reminded that many of the beneficiaries of the black guy's cuts are non taxpayers. Socialism is all well and pretty when everybody gives and everybody takes. Then you walk out of the classroom...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122524355079278651.html?

please do convince me this is good -- part of being patriotic, etc.

Actually no - just link a couple youtube videos of everyone not being Barack Obama being responsible for current state of America.

like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq8Uc5BFogE

[ 10-29-2008, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: 10,000Lb.Snorlax ]

From: Denver | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
Racist
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posted 10-29-2008 08:42 PM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cal: They're saying that 45-50,000 people showed up, and I'd certainly believe it.

It amazes me how this happens, especially considering how often campaign schedules change. Every time I hear about one of these free things, they're already "sold out".

I've managed to not see Barack a couple times this year, and also Gore when he was on the Unfortunate Truth tour and Bill Clinton just yammering away about something before the campaign.. I did get to see John Waters, who was hilarious. Also the Violent Femmes.

It's actually pretty cool that there are at least some people who care, but I wonder if the crowds wouldn't be twice the size if it were some inane celebutard.

The most annoying part for me was when the drone-fucks flung themselves into one of those rhythmic "yes we can" chants.

Well, it's a classic oratorical thing to keep the crowd excited, used by everyone from preachers to rock bands. I know what you mean, though.

At least they're shouting something positive, and not the stuff the McCain/Palin crowds shout.

I heard someone refer to the US as an Ohio-cracy the other day, and a number of people have noted that our elections are dictated by that small minority of complete idiots known as "swing voters". Some of the same morons who voted for Bush twice will be voting for Obama, and either way both campaigns are tailoring their ads towards people who are as politically involved as blind cave fish.

This bit from the Stern Show is very telling. The right-wing shows that keep replaying this clip don't include the part where a Harlem McCain voter did exactly the same thing.

No matter who wins, it's not going to be due anything written in any paper or any specific policy, it's all a result of which candidate these troglodytes like better on a personal level or which negative ads or magic words (Arab! Socialist! Old! Cranky!) they respond to.

Best to pretend like the real political discourse matters, I guess, for everyone's sake.

10K: ...ug...socialism...ooga booga...

Why is it socialism when poor people get a tax cut, but not socialism when rich people and huge corporations get tax cuts?

As for the state of the US medical system, it regularly ranks way behind those of other free nations in independent studies, in terms of value, level of satisfaction, and simple effectiveness. Anecdotes are fun, but they don't beat detailed analysis.

Oh, and as for Obama songs, I thought the will.i.am one was great, but pretty much every other one I've seen is almost as bad as that Ameri-cuh!! 9/11 song.

~Uiru

[ 10-29-2008, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: Mr. K ]

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
MewtwoSama
Asshole
Member # 12

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posted 10-29-2008 10:58 PM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In Alaska, they have socialism. Every resident gets free monies.

~Uiru

PS anyone post this yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRB2wFhXIPs

[ 10-30-2008, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: MewtwoSama ]

- - - - -
Hade ni ikuze!

From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
10,000Lb.Snorlax
loves long time.
Member # 13

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posted 10-30-2008 10:19 AM      Profile for 10,000Lb.Snorlax   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm not talking about tax cuts for poor people -I'm talking about the $$$$$ in governments services and programs that are aimed at benefitting people who do not pay taxes.

ooga booga

From: Denver | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
Racist
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posted 10-30-2008 06:12 PM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rather than try to convince you of the benefit of social programs, I'll try something else...

...let's say you're right, and Obama has a secret plan to take all your money and give it to Big Gulp Ladies across the country.

To what end?

Is he attempting to appease the extremely powerful homeless/too-mentally-unstable-to-work/chronically-lazy/illiterate/morbidly-obese/severely-handicapped/hateful-leech/whatever lobby?

What would be the result of his success and what would Obama get out of it?

EDIT: Oops, forgot to sign this.

~Uiru

[ 10-30-2008, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: Mr. K ]

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
Racist
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posted 10-31-2008 02:04 PM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Also the black guy really understands the series of tubes. His website tricks all the kids into setting up myspace-type pages and chatting amongst themselves, networking in RL, all that krap...but the real genius is offering these small things you can do in a few minutes.

Call some people or walk around your own neighborhood and knock on doors. It gives you a couple minutes of YouTube training a bunch of phone numbers or addresses, pats you on the butt, and sends you on your way.

You get points and rankings and levels, to trick the video game generation into working without getting bored...just a few more minutes to find the next magic biscuit before playing some other game.

Just minutes to get started, and suddenly you're talking to old people in Ohio on your own cellphone from the comfort of your own dorm.

They get instant results with only the investment in the website and the data management behind it.

Friggin' genius.

~Uhura

[ 10-31-2008, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: Mr. K ]

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
MewtwoSama
Asshole
Member # 12

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posted 10-31-2008 02:50 PM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Some of links:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-obama-chicago-socialist,0,4048540.story

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1030/p09s01-coop.html

http://www.itsnotsocialism.com/

-Sulu

PS, lol butt cancer

- - - - -
Hade ni ikuze!

From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Rolken
Vulcan
Member # 7

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posted 11-01-2008 03:01 PM      Profile for Rolken   Author's Homepage   Email Rolken   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The shortcut sign that there's no substance to 10K in this topic is how everything he says is 100% pro-Republican and 100% anti-Democrat. Anyone seriously considering the candidates (hi Mr K, hi sC) would be finding -something- that cuts against the grain somewhere, but 10K is either incapable of finding it or uninterested in discussing it. 10K completely failing to reflect on the recent bank nationalization and anything it might imply about his preferred candidates or "philosophies" is a good example, particularly as he cherry picks Uiru's post to avoid talking about the stuff he doesn't want to.

That said, the election is over at this point. Capital-T They just can't say so because to make that the narrative would in itself alter the course of the race, plus 2000 was pretty embarrassing, plus they hate to reinforce the "liberal media" meme. But it remains undeniably the case.

~Spock

[ 11-03-2008, 01:19 AM: Message edited by: MewtwoSama ]

From: Provo, UT | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
10,000Lb.Snorlax
loves long time.
Member # 13

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posted 11-03-2008 11:53 AM      Profile for 10,000Lb.Snorlax   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I can't tell what was post-edited and what was actually written. In anycase continue to believe what you want to and I'll do the same. Go Bama!

~Scotty

[ 11-03-2008, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: MewtwoSama ]

From: Denver | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Rolken
Vulcan
Member # 7

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posted 11-03-2008 04:20 PM      Profile for Rolken   Author's Homepage   Email Rolken   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The distinction here being that we will continue to believe what we do because we are capable of presenting it in a rational and thoughtful way, whereas you have apparently given up the attempt to reconcile your spiteful misdirected selfishness with logic. And so you don't get hopelessly confused again and continue using that as a pretext to dismiss whatever I say (as though it possibly being said by someone else would somehow make it less correct), I will spare Sama the need to edit my post.

~Spock

From: Provo, UT | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
MewtwoSama
Asshole
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posted 11-05-2008 11:09 PM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If it wasn't for Seven of Nine, there'd be no State Senator Obama.

Apparently, Obama learned Socialism from Star Trek.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/167755/page/6

This is all Gene Roddenberry's fault.

- - - - -
Hade ni ikuze!

From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
MewtwoSama
Asshole
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posted 11-11-2008 03:04 AM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nerd: All your base are belong to us
Obama: What you say?

- - - - -
Hade ni ikuze!

From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
Racist
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posted 11-12-2008 12:04 PM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 


I want to believe that story.

Also do the forum icons look funny for everyone?

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mentar the Malady Monkey
worst username ever
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posted 12-22-2008 03:51 AM      Profile for Mentar the Malady Monkey   Email Mentar the Malady Monkey   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
BOO HOO THE GOVERNMENT IS GONNA RAISE TAXES on the very very rich BOO HOO WHAT A SHAME

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WHAT.

From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Face
I invented cancer.
Member # 1916

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posted 12-23-2008 11:05 AM      Profile for Face   Author's Homepage   Email Face   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Obama is going to change America guys. No matter what anyone says, history has just been made with his election.

- - - - -
Weezing!

From: Hackensack, nj | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
MewtwoSama
Asshole
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posted 01-15-2009 05:57 PM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mewone
I have a pokemon as my username. I mean, come on.
Member # 1694

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posted 01-20-2009 03:14 AM      Profile for Mewone     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

From: Azure Heights | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 01-20-2009 03:24 PM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"My fellow Americans, our long national nightmare is over."
-- Some Dead Bald White Guy

Also Nostradamus as a vegetable.

[ 01-20-2009, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: Mr. K ]

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mentar the Malady Monkey
worst username ever
Member # 1182

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posted 04-04-2009 07:01 PM      Profile for Mentar the Malady Monkey   Email Mentar the Malady Monkey   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
hmm yase Obama is a socialist

*watches obama funnel lots of taxpayer money into private corporations and say no to nationalization*

*watches obama continue to support the bloated military-industrial complex*

*watches obama say no to single-payer healthcare*

*still thinks obama is a socialist*

*is an idiot*

*is 10k*

- - - - -
WHAT.

From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Dragonite21
Farting Nudist
Member # 475

posted 01-21-2010 03:49 AM      Profile for Dragonite21     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
so why does everybody hate him now, are they racist?
Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 01-21-2010 04:41 PM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We hate him because he said he was going to do fun things and the only things he's done are boring and are taking forever.

Actually, we don't hate him, we just wish he would do more of what he said he was going to do. Congressional Democrats are falling all over themselves to fail in new and different ways, ensuring that nothing, good or bad, in any way happens.

People are pissed because nothing interesting is going on, other than the slow decline of our economy.

Congressional Democrats have, of course, interpreted this all to mean "we should do even less!".

I've never seen a more relentlessly self-destructive organization than the Democratic party.

Anyway, if the world would stop exploding for 10 seconds, he might actually be able to do stuff once he gets health care off the table. It's an ugly thing that everyone sort-of-but-not-really cares about, so everyone is unhappy, even the people who are getting exactly what they want.

At this rate, though, he'll be two years into this thing before he actually starts doing anything. It's part of the plan, though. You do the boring stuff that needs to be done first. Then your party gets blasted in the mid-terms. Then you do the fun stuff.

Let's hope he gets around to the fun stuff some day.

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
10,000Lb.Snorlax
loves long time.
Member # 13

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posted 02-03-2010 05:37 PM      Profile for 10,000Lb.Snorlax   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[Smile]
From: Denver | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
MewtwoSama
Asshole
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posted 03-22-2010 10:31 AM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Dragonite21:

Its a great day for America everybody!

- - - - -
Hade ni ikuze!

From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
Racist
Member # 2

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posted 03-23-2010 12:25 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
OMFG socialism is here and the market went up 44 points.

That will surely change tomorrow, when the trucks start showing up at our homes to nationalize our personal belongings.

The apocalypse has finally arrived. It's a good thing too, because it would really suck if we all had to pay for 30 million more doctor visits when the holy fire starts burning the flesh off our bodies.

I'm going to go outside and watch the abortions taking place in the streets. Free entertainment!

Also I wonder how many more decades it will be before Congress actually passes serious health care reform.

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
10,000Lb.Snorlax
loves long time.
Member # 13

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posted 10-18-2010 03:06 PM      Profile for 10,000Lb.Snorlax   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
bump because the black guy still sucks
From: Denver | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged


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