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Author
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Topic: Settling an age old debate with logic
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Fluxxdog
Farting Nudist
Member # 3786
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posted 04-08-2005 09:47 AM
I'm sure we've all heard the saying "The best things in life are free." Some people think it's a crock, while some live by it like the word of Goddish. Well, I had an idea! Couldn't this debate be settled mathematically?
For something to be the best, you have to deal with a qualitative amount. We'll define quality, therefore, as a function of c, where c is the cost. However, the cost would be offset by the value of the item. So it would be safe to say that...
f(c) = v/c
Now, while value and cost are somewhat arbitrary, they can still be defined as being either equal to or greater than 0. And the values don't have to be just money either. They can be time, appearance, thought, breath, etc. However, this seems to leave it obvious that none of those factors could ever equal 0.
Not so. Take time for example. If your not doing anything with your time already, cost in time is still 0. "I could have been trimming my fingernails." doesn't count. "I'm bleeding and must go to the hospital!" does count.
Can value ever be 0? No. Otherwise, there's no point in it existing in the first place. So everything has positive value. Anything that would drop cost below 0 is actually increasing value. Whether that increase is arithmetic or geometric is a debate for another day.
Given all this, we can actually compute the quality of something based on it's value and cost. For an example, let's say I download Slipknot's "The Subliminal Verses" album from iTunes. Normally costing, for arguement's sake, $15 dollars in a store, I buy and download it from iTunes for (again, for arguement's sake) $7 dollars. First off, the value of $15 is decreased as I don't get the insert that goes with it. The cost is increased because I have to allow them access to my financial information in some way. (Security can be a cost too.) When all's said and done, we end up with a quality ratio of about 1.33 by reducing value to $14 and increasing cost to $10.50 (I consider security to really be costly). OK, so I'm coming out ahead, but not by much.
Now let's compare it to using a bit torrent. We start with the same value of $15. The torrent I D/L includes copies of the cover art, so no loss there. However, cost is negated to $0. I don't have to pay anything. I must share the file with other people while downloading it, but this isn't much of an effect since I download at the same time I upload. Again, though, security can be an issue, since I do have to allow people access to those certain files on my computer. So cost ends up at $.50. There's no real threat, but it's still there. This gives us a quality ratio of 30! This is an increase in quality of 2250%!
So it's obvious that as cost decreases, quality increases. Mathematically, this means:
as c -> 0, f(c) -> infinity
I guess the best things in life really are free!
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Fluxxdog
The worst crime you can commit against another human is to make them think.
From: Azure Heights Laboratory | Registered: Mar 2005
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Anthrax
Ultimate Authoritative Power in the Universe
Member # 335
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posted 04-08-2005 02:48 PM
words
From: Somebody put shit in my pants! | Registered: Apr 2000
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MewtwoSama
Asshole
Member # 12
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posted 04-08-2005 03:13 PM
MacGyver gets involved in an Indian land dispute. Cigarette Smoking Man guest stars as the Judge.
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Hade ni ikuze!
From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000
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sunburnt_aphid
most boring gimmick ever
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posted 04-08-2005 03:35 PM
It depends on what you consider to be the best things in life. If you consider monetary material things like fur coats, cars and mansions to be the best things in life, then no, the best things in life are not free. If you consider the small things such as a child's smile, a rainbow, or Linux to be the best things in life, then the best things in life are free.
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I like Jessie from Team Rocket <3
From: Seattle | Registered: Oct 2003
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pkthunder
I look like your mom.
Member # 67
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posted 04-08-2005 05:16 PM
Yes, but if for some reason you were able to obtain an fur coat at a very small cost, it's bestness greatly increases!
From: Broomfield, CO | Registered: Feb 2000
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Lark84
My skeleton is made of creamy nougat.
Member # 1186
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posted 04-08-2005 05:25 PM
Wait wait wait...
Beer or speech?
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Fluxxdog
Farting Nudist
Member # 3786
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posted 04-08-2005 06:13 PM
Beer. Why are you even asking? Now start serving!
And quality is a quasi-abstract idea. Granted, people have different definitions, but it boils down to a factor of value vs. cost. That fur coat may have a great value, but it'll cost your left nut, give or take a scrotum. So the quality really drops from there. But get that fur for free, and you can pretend your humping Chewbacca for all I care.
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Fluxxdog
The worst crime you can commit against another human is to make them think.
From: Azure Heights Laboratory | Registered: Mar 2005
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Cesar
Farting Nudist
Member # 529
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posted 04-09-2005 11:05 PM
Your missing too many variables. When you buy a CD from the store, you also get a CD, assuming you own a CD player. You can also download it, assuming you have a computer.
You can buy a CD off the store and not have a CD Player, but it's portability is limited.
If you downloaded something, you neglected ISP costs, computer costs, electricity, cables, etc. + you act as a bit file-server. Over the long run, and depending on how much you download (if you pay $240/yr and download only one song off one album, that song basically cost you $240) you can decrease that cost.
It's like college. I spent $3500 on tuition and books alone. However, I have NOT offset the cost of the money I saved on free newspapers, Windows XP Pro, and Windows Server 2003. If knowledge has a price, it is what is left over.
Friends however are free, and provides an endless amount of joy and free entertainment. They require almost no upkeep, and what little they do require comes at no charge to you.
From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Jun 2000
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DoomMullet
Farting Nudist
Member # 3363
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posted 04-10-2005 01:08 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Cesar:
It's like college. I spent $3500 on tuition and books alone. However, I have NOT offset the cost of the money I saved on free newspapers, Windows XP Pro, and Windows Server 2003. If knowledge has a price, it is what is left over.
lol what shitty nappy-ass community college are you going to
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What kind of a fuckass fuck of a bumfuck shithole town is this?
From: fondling your balls, don't you feel that? | Registered: Apr 2003
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James Albis' Stalker
Farting Nudist
Member # 3751
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posted 04-10-2005 01:51 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Anthrax:
words
Registered: Dec 2004
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cool daddy
Farting Nudist
Member # 2631
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posted 04-10-2005 02:22 AM
he paid to download music off the internet
l0l
Registered: Feb 2002
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MK
is somewhat large.
Member # 1445
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posted 04-10-2005 03:47 AM
What's wrong with you guys? Fluxxdog tries to make a serious post and you all bullshit on him...
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even my mother thinks i'm an idiot
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Lark84
My skeleton is made of creamy nougat.
Member # 1186
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posted 04-10-2005 05:03 AM
quote:
Originally posted by MK:
Fluxxdog tries to make a serious post and you all bullshit on him...
Hi, you must be new here.
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Fluxxdog
Farting Nudist
Member # 3786
Member Rated:
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posted 04-10-2005 10:41 AM
?? I got bullshitted on? News to me.
From Cesar:
>If you downloaded something, you neglected ISP costs, computer costs, electricity, cables, etc. + you act as a bit file-server. Over the long run, and depending on how much you download<
You forget though...
From Fluxxdog:
>If your not doing anything with your time already, cost in time is still 0.<
This applies to other facets of the equation as well. In my case, my DSL is already paid to do other things, D/Ling the torrent program was free, and running a torrent while I'm not using my computer involves no extra work on my part. But like I said, these are speculative concepts. For you, these are costs to really consider. To me, they don't mean much.
From cool daddy:
>he paid to download music off the internet
l0l <
You don't know what an example is, do you?
Back to topic, I ran this by a friend of mine. The only catch he poiinted out, like Cesar did, is to prove that the cost reallly is 0. Not an easy thing. Plus, as an added bonus, n/0 is not a real number. Thus, nothing can be free. This kinda slapped the wind out of it, but there was and upshot in a philosophical way. Cost cannot = 0. BUT! There's nothing that's says value cannot = infinity. So now all we need to do is find something with infinite value.
...
Uh, my job is done! I'll leave the rest to you guys ^^ <poof!>
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Fluxxdog
The worst crime you can commit against another human is to make them think.
From: Azure Heights Laboratory | Registered: Mar 2005
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cool daddy
Farting Nudist
Member # 2631
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posted 04-11-2005 12:03 AM
shut the fuck up
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sunburnt_aphid
most boring gimmick ever
Member # 3546
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posted 04-11-2005 12:55 AM
quote:
Originally posted by cool daddy:
mut the muck mup
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I like Jessie from Team Rocket <3
From: Seattle | Registered: Oct 2003
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cool daddy
Farting Nudist
Member # 2631
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posted 04-11-2005 01:33 AM
i liked your how do i buyed weed thread but fuck off
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MK
is somewhat large.
Member # 1445
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posted 04-11-2005 01:39 AM
You do realize that by telling someone to fuck off only gives them more energy... more of a reason to stick around and annoy you more ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Fluxxdog
Farting Nudist
Member # 3786
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posted 04-11-2005 08:11 AM
OMG!1 WTF!! Sumwun tolld me 2 STFU?!1!! eye cry and wine because I car so much abut wun pirson's opinion!!1
Actually, there's one person's opinion who does count in my life. That's mine! ^^ Yes, I have an ego. A very big ego. And I like to stroke it. Would you like to stroke it, cool daddy? No? I bet that's because you have a pretty little mouth. Now open wide and say AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
(Well that was humorous. I didn't think I'd find troll spoor that quickly ^^)
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Fluxxdog
The worst crime you can commit against another human is to make them think.
From: Azure Heights Laboratory | Registered: Mar 2005
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Mr. K
Racist
Member # 2
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posted 04-11-2005 12:57 PM
Man, it's like you're from another planet...
From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000
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DoomMullet
Farting Nudist
Member # 3363
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posted 04-11-2005 01:35 PM
yo cool_daddy, is this dude giving you lip? No one talks to my brother from down under like that.
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What kind of a fuckass fuck of a bumfuck shithole town is this?
From: fondling your balls, don't you feel that? | Registered: Apr 2003
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MewtwoSama
Asshole
Member # 12
Member Rated:
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posted 04-11-2005 03:25 PM
Today's Macgyver is another clip show.
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Hade ni ikuze!
From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000
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Fluxxdog
Farting Nudist
Member # 3786
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posted 04-11-2005 03:56 PM
Mr.K: Who, me? Nope I'm human. Unfortunately. Weird, but human.
DM: Now now, in all fairness, he issued an STFU command without proper cause or guidelines. Decency and etiquette required direct violation of that order as well as sufficient backlash. Only in this way can a true equilibrium be established. This is usually achieved by comical retort, although incited remarks can be used as well, although this can bring about more dour results.
Or to put it simply: He told me to shut up? Well fuck him and the horse he rode in on!
M2S: I have no response to that fact other than, "I have no response." Wait a second...
[ 04-11-2005, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Fluxxdog ]
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Fluxxdog
The worst crime you can commit against another human is to make them think.
From: Azure Heights Laboratory | Registered: Mar 2005
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Anthrax
Ultimate Authoritative Power in the Universe
Member # 335
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posted 04-11-2005 05:06 PM
it's like sassy 1998 cringe-inducing snappy-comeback internet user ego came all over my face
why don't you just start talking about cheese and get it over with
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She told The Associated Press she first realized her son was mentally ill in 1996 when he killed her oldest child, a 25-year-old woman who suffered from cerebral palsy, by beating her with a dumbbell.
From: Somebody put shit in my pants! | Registered: Apr 2000
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cool daddy
Farting Nudist
Member # 2631
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posted 04-11-2005 10:54 PM
fluxxdog i read about 3 lines all up of your original post because clearly its fucking dogshit
and then you spew some bullshit at me about not knowing what an example is
yeah i know what an example is but thats got nothing to do with me not wanting to read through a fucking 40 line worthless post by some cocksucker
i hope you get hit by a truck, faggot
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DoomMullet
Farting Nudist
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posted 04-11-2005 11:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fluxxdog:
DM: Now now, in all fairness, he issued an STFU command without proper cause or guidelines. Decency and etiquette required direct violation of that order as well as sufficient backlash. Only in this way can a true equilibrium be established. This is usually achieved by comical retort, although incited remarks can be used as well, although this can bring about more dour results.
c_d and I go back a long ways, back into the days of yore when I defected from the volatile US and took up arms with the Australians against both the imperialistic US bible-thumpers and the scone-eating British faggots. In the end, no clear victor was seen... but everyone knows which alliance of great minds benefitted the greatest from the conflict.
this fact alone requires me to stand up for c_d in all situations, no matter how weak and unhumorous my remark might be.
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What kind of a fuckass fuck of a bumfuck shithole town is this?
From: fondling your balls, don't you feel that? | Registered: Apr 2003
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sunburnt_aphid
most boring gimmick ever
Member # 3546
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posted 04-12-2005 12:53 AM
quote:
Originally posted by cool daddy:
fluxxdog i read about 3 lines all up of your original post because clearly its fucking dogshit
and then you spew some bullshit at me about not knowing what an example is
yeah i know what an example is but thats got nothing to do with me not wanting to read through a fucking 40 line worthless post by some cocksucker
i hope you get hit by a truck, faggot
oh shit pimpin you got served
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I like Jessie from Team Rocket <3
From: Seattle | Registered: Oct 2003
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Fluxxdog
Farting Nudist
Member # 3786
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posted 04-12-2005 09:53 AM
Anthrax: How did you know about the cheese?
c_d: If I didn't know better, I'd think you were taking this seriously o.O
DM: I can respect that. Just answer me one question, please. Is he really taking this seriously? I mean, I thought it obviously apparent this thread was one big joke. It's like proving black equals white, only to get yourself run over in a zebra crossing.
s_a: Who's pimpin?
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Fluxxdog
The worst crime you can commit against another human is to make them think.
From: Azure Heights Laboratory | Registered: Mar 2005
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DoomMullet
Farting Nudist
Member # 3363
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posted 04-12-2005 01:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fluxxdog:
DM: I can respect that. Just answer me one question, please. Is he really taking this seriously?
Got me, I can only speak for myself. And I never take ANYTHING seriously.
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What kind of a fuckass fuck of a bumfuck shithole town is this?
From: fondling your balls, don't you feel that? | Registered: Apr 2003
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Mr. K
Racist
Member # 2
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posted 04-14-2005 02:31 PM
This reminds me of the good ole days when I deleted lots of stupid threads.
From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000
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DoomMullet
Farting Nudist
Member # 3363
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posted 04-14-2005 11:34 PM
Why did you stop, Mister Kay? WHEN DID YOU STOP CARING???
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What kind of a fuckass fuck of a bumfuck shithole town is this?
From: fondling your balls, don't you feel that? | Registered: Apr 2003
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Fluxxdog
Farting Nudist
Member # 3786
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posted 04-15-2005 11:48 AM
Ah, but more importantly, did he care to begin with?
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Fluxxdog
The worst crime you can commit against another human is to make them think.
From: Azure Heights Laboratory | Registered: Mar 2005
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Mr. K
Racist
Member # 2
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posted 04-15-2005 03:26 PM
I am putting out the call to save these threads.
The Omally Signal is glowing softly on the storm clouds overhead.
I'm holding out for a hero!
From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000
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sunburnt_aphid
most boring gimmick ever
Member # 3546
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posted 04-15-2005 05:55 PM
can we have a new picture on the top now
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I like Jessie from Team Rocket <3
From: Seattle | Registered: Oct 2003
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Anthrax
Ultimate Authoritative Power in the Universe
Member # 335
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posted 04-16-2005 07:12 PM
Omally has to write a paper about kelp.
help plz
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She told The Associated Press she first realized her son was mentally ill in 1996 when he killed her oldest child, a 25-year-old woman who suffered from cerebral palsy, by beating her with a dumbbell.
From: Somebody put shit in my pants! | Registered: Apr 2000
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Windex
I am the greatest human being ever. It is impossible to insult me.
Member # 9
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posted 04-16-2005 10:09 PM
it's green.
you can use me as a reference.
From: Ontario | Registered: Feb 2000
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Mr. K
Racist
Member # 2
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posted 04-17-2005 04:06 PM
Kelp by Mr. K
Kelp is some motherfucking badass shit. It grows like supercrazy and does it faster and better than everyone else.
The otters like the kelp and live there and get their food there and wrap themselves in it so they don't float away.
Kelp is coated with this special stuff that makes it feel all slippery and has a lot of uses and also sometimes they use it in making pill capsules.
Kelp forests are one of the most biologically diverse and productive ecosystems on the planet and are right up there with coral reefs and also mangrove swamps, but mangove swamps are fucking cheating because their leaves are sticking up into the air and shit.
When you take away all the otters, they don't eat the urchins and so the urchins go wild and eat all the kelp and with no kelp you have no ecosystem and so everything else that depends on the kelp forest dies and the Pacific coast gets all barren and there's no food for otters so now there are even fewer otters than before we killed them to make coats, so it's all circular feedback and shit.
If an otter doesn't keep fluffing his coat, he will get waterlogged and sink and die not be able to tease fish.
Kelp have these cool air bladders in them that help the big stalks float and sometimes they wash up on the beach and you can pop them. Also they have these roots that are really sticky that let them anchor themselves to rocks and not float away.
Also the kind of hermit crabs who don't like peanut butter and Cheerios live there.
OK, I think that's all I got.
[ 04-17-2005, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Mr. K ]
From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000
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Anthrax
Ultimate Authoritative Power in the Universe
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posted 04-17-2005 07:56 PM
thx for the paper mr. k
in 2 weeks we're going on a field trip to look at fiddler crabs.
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She told The Associated Press she first realized her son was mentally ill in 1996 when he killed her oldest child, a 25-year-old woman who suffered from cerebral palsy, by beating her with a dumbbell.
From: Somebody put shit in my pants! | Registered: Apr 2000
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Jolteon X
I put my finger up Dweedle's butt and then in my mouth
Member # 284
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posted 04-17-2005 09:08 PM
more like
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w
h
a
t
s
u
p
From: Heck: The hell of minor sins | Registered: Apr 2000
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Anthrax
Ultimate Authoritative Power in the Universe
Member # 335
Member Rated:
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posted 04-17-2005 10:44 PM
all i know about fiddler crabs is that if humans didnt wear pants throughout history then guys would all have huge dongs
and they can play the fiddle
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She told The Associated Press she first realized her son was mentally ill in 1996 when he killed her oldest child, a 25-year-old woman who suffered from cerebral palsy, by beating her with a dumbbell.
From: Somebody put shit in my pants! | Registered: Apr 2000
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sunburnt_aphid
most boring gimmick ever
Member # 3546
Member Rated:
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posted 04-19-2005 01:28 AM
i like mr. krabs because i like spongebob. also leonard j. crabs ![[Wink]](wink.gif) ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) ![[PBJ Time!]](graemlins/pbjtime.gif) ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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I like Jessie from Team Rocket <3
From: Seattle | Registered: Oct 2003
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Mr. K
Racist
Member # 2
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posted 04-19-2005 04:44 AM
You can always tell what claw a fiddler uses to whack it.
From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000
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sunburnt_aphid
most boring gimmick ever
Member # 3546
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posted 04-20-2005 11:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. K:
You can always tell what claw a fiddler uses to whack it.
How?
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I like Jessie from Team Rocket <3
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