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Author Topic: FLCL vs. Cowboy Bebop
Mr. K
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posted 03-14-2005 05:28 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In part because I am just curious what sort of nerd vs. anti-nerd fight this might incite and in part because I can't decide myself, I ask...

...which is the better series?

I am not defining "better" in this context, because the way in which you look at it can skew the voting.

Decide for yourself.

[ 03-14-2005, 05:29 AM: Message edited by: Mr. K ]

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From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
crowN
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posted 03-14-2005 09:45 AM      Profile for crowN   Email crowN   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Comedy option. [Trash Bear]

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http://profiles.myspace.com/users/Krivanka

^___^;;

From: 1996 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
MK
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posted 03-14-2005 03:09 PM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cowboy Bebop

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even my mother thinks i'm an idiot

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MewtwoSama
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posted 03-14-2005 03:19 PM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I dont know much about those shows, but I do know that Abe Vigoda is on MacGyver as well as that little black lady from Police Academy (who is playing a police officer)
From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
sunburnt_aphid
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posted 03-14-2005 04:57 PM      Profile for sunburnt_aphid     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 


[ 07-07-2005, 04:11 AM: Message edited by: Mr. K ]

From: Seattle | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
DoomMullet
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posted 03-14-2005 05:34 PM      Profile for DoomMullet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
wtf is FLCL

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What kind of a fuckass fuck of a bumfuck shithole town is this?

From: fondling your balls, don't you feel that? | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Random Loser
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posted 03-14-2005 08:37 PM      Profile for Random Loser   Email Random Loser   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If FLCL is anything like ATHF, a similarly acronym'd show that I could imagine being mentioned in the same breath as Cowboy Bebop - due to them both being cartoons - then I'd have to say it wins. Otherwise, I dunno, cause I've never seen either of them.
From: Uni of Virginny | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Anthrax
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posted 03-14-2005 08:38 PM      Profile for Anthrax   Author's Homepage   Email Anthrax   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think Cowboy Bebop is stronger overall. It's more coherent and there's more variety in the story told.

FLCL is more abstract and not too understandable at times. Plus it suffers from the generic anime WTF ending. While Cowboy Bebop's main plotline was ignored for many episodes, FLCL's plotline was almost too subliminal and the conclusion was a little bit of a letdown for me.

Cowboy Bebop will probably stand the test of time. FLCL might have been revolutionary, but there will be other series that will do what FLCL did better. Cowboy Bebop is pretty damn near perfect in terms of anime. Very few real filler episodes and no ridiculous ending.

According to Amazon, The Pillows have a new album coming out in May.

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She told The Associated Press she first realized her son was mentally ill in 1996 when he killed her oldest child, a 25-year-old woman who suffered from cerebral palsy, by beating her with a dumbbell.

From: Somebody put shit in my pants! | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Biffster
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posted 03-14-2005 09:25 PM      Profile for Biffster     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
more like beebob and rocksteady am i rite [Cool]

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Team Rocket doesn't care about history or archeology!

From: Viridian City (On the road at least) | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Liberal Media
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posted 03-14-2005 10:48 PM      Profile for Liberal Media   Email Liberal Media   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Voted Bebop because it's basically like watching an extended John Woo film....gotta love the Mexican standoffs.
On a related note, Samurai Champloo, whic has the same director as Bebop (and same production team, IIRC), is still running in Japan (they're at episode 25 there, I believe), and looks to be another great anime. Depending on how they finish it, it could be as good as its predecessor. It's wonderfully anachronistic: nothing quite like seeing feudal Japanese samurais beat-boxing and break-dancing.

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I just want bangbangbang.

From: inside | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Crimzonite
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posted 03-15-2005 01:24 AM      Profile for Crimzonite     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Both suck. Anyone can watch anime these days. Go watch Japanese television before it becomes popular and all us Japanese television fans kill you like a black man killing his white wife when the revolution starts. [Razz]
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Mr. K
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posted 03-15-2005 04:09 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Anthrax: I think Cowboy Bebop is stronger overall. It's more coherent and there's more variety in the story told.

Definitely more variety, but in fairness, it had 26 episodes and a semi-boring movie.

I don't think FLCL is actually incoherent at all, it just moves really fast and doesn't give a fuck if you're keeping up or not. It all holds together once you realize what's going on, and upon repeated viewings, you can catch some nice little details that you almost certainly missed the first time.

I like FLCL because initially it seems like it's utterly random, but it actually all makes complete sense. Now that I'm immune to it, I forget that it's weird.

As for Bebop, I like that it all seems like a fun John Woo pic in the beginning, then becomes incredibly poignant at the end. You can also miss that the characters are changing on the first viewing (especially if you just catch a couple random episodes first), but once you see the end, the arcs all become a lot more apparent, and you realize that someone really put some thought into that shit.

Bebop is probably smarter, but FLCL isn't trying to be smart, it's just a sweet, sad little coming of age story. Although, I guess Bebop sort of has that element too, on top of all the other stuff.

Both have badass scores, but the music is probably a wash. Although, I can listen to the Pillows in my car, and I don't really wanna drive around with most Bebop music.

Plus [FLCL] suffers from the generic anime WTF ending.

Well, I don't suppose it's any more cliche than the Woo-esque Bebop ending. Also I don't think it's a WTF. It's time for Haruko to move on and the kid has learnt his lesson and the fun is over and life goes back to sucking and the afterskool special is over.

I guess the thing is, I don't like FLCL for the plot or the semi-pointless robot fights. It's all about the feeling created in your head when you watch it. Even if you don't know exactly what's going on, you pretty much know what's going on.

Cowboy Bebop is pretty damn near perfect in terms of anime. Very few real filler episodes and no ridiculous ending.

Again, there's a length thing, but I think only Episode #5 of FLCL is a little weak. There were a couple throwaways in Bebop, including the movie.

I dunno, I still haven't voted yet.

I was gonna ask "If you could only watch one ever again, which would you pick?", but I'd have to pick Bebop, just cos there's more entertainment there. I own FLCL, but not Bebop, but that's a cost thing, and has to do with the number of times Adult Swim showed Bebop.

I dunno.

Maybe if I watched the FLCL where Naota swings the bat and the Bebop where Ed and Faye leave one right after the other, I could figure out which had more punch and vote that way.

I distinctly remember seeing the Ed/Faye episode the first time, because an hour later I was still depressed and I couldn't figure out why. I had only seen a few Bebops at that point, and was only starting to get to know the characters, so I was surprised that I cared that they were gone.

You can show Bebop to a normal human, and they can be entertained by it, but non-nerd is gonna get bored immediately by FLCL. I don't know if that will affect my voting at all, since you can't really show either to a chick and expect them to like it.

ALSO: Thanks for the Pillows and Samurai Whatever info. I will look out for those.

[ 03-16-2005, 04:41 AM: Message edited by: Mr. K ]

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 03-15-2005 04:40 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
MewtwoSama: I dont know much about those shows, but I do know that Abe Vigoda is on MacGyver as well as that little black lady from Police Academy (who is playing a police officer)

Abe is awesome.

When I met the Beasties, I had them sign my copy of Licensed to Ill and told them to sign it to Abe Vigoda.

Mike D (the only one who wasn't totally drunk) wrote "Dear Fish: Sorry the show didn't fly!"

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Lark84
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posted 03-15-2005 05:15 AM      Profile for Lark84     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
abe vigoda status monitor extension for firefox
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Wintermute
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posted 03-15-2005 08:58 PM      Profile for Wintermute   Author's Homepage   Email Wintermute   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
FLCL, because it was more affecting and less formulaic.

I remember watching the first Bebop ep and being almost too bored with the story to watch the second one. Before long the insane quality of it shone through, but some degree of that reaction has stayed with me.

e.g. When I first met Spike and Jet, and was like, yeah whatever Lupin and Kris Kristofferson from "Blade." Then of course they became their own characters in spite of themselves, which was a wonderful, compelling trick. But in retrospect they mostly fold back into their archetypes.

My post-FLCL reaction was and is, "YES MORE OF THAT."

(I'm operationalizing "better" as which one I would watch right now. I haven't seen either in a long time, and I saw FLCL most recently.)

From: Winnipeg, Manitoba | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Porygone
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posted 03-17-2005 01:13 AM      Profile for Porygone   Email Porygone   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
FLCL.

Bebop was a good series, but a lot of time, I kept getting the feeling that I was watching something generic, just done in a way that it was impressive. The characters were really the only thing the series had going for it.

The series had a lot of throwaway episodes that were a bit too fillery for my tastes. I could miss half the series and not really miss anything important.

FLCL was another story. It was the kind of series where you never knew what was happening next. I watched all this random chaos and I steadlier grew more attached to the characters. And then the ending came, and everything made sense.

In Bebop, the character growth just felt uneven. We see a character act a certain way, we get very small clues that help explain this behavior, then we get a big episode that goes into detail and explains almost everything.

Overall, I suppose the majority of my complaints stem from length. I mostly enjoyed FLCL more because it felt like EVERYTHING was important. Everything had its own little meaning that made even the little detail more interesting and entertaining. From "Gundam Hammer" to Haruko's battle and outfit in the fifth episode, almost every random, chaotic detail had its own little story.

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YOU'RE WINNER!

From: Celadon City Gym | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
VaporeonsHaze
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posted 03-19-2005 09:39 AM      Profile for VaporeonsHaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
FLCL's animation is just too awesome to be compaired.

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shut the fuck up

From: MI | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
MK
is somewhat large.
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posted 03-19-2005 09:15 PM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
http://www.iamtreadingonthinice.com

warning: spoilers

[ 03-19-2005, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: Anthrax ]

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even my mother thinks i'm an idiot

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Mr. K
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posted 03-20-2005 06:41 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Spoilers that spoil what?

Anyway, FLCL is the sort of computer animation I can get behind.

I like the idea of making regular cartoons, only better.

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
~Steel Arcanine~
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posted 03-26-2005 09:45 AM      Profile for ~Steel Arcanine~   Author's Homepage   Email ~Steel Arcanine~   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
FLCL is good for a few laughs and if you don't mind a WTF ending similar to that of Evangelion. Very random and unpredictable, but I think the ending brought everything together nicely (though I'd still like to know what Furi kuri means).
I think Cowboy Bebop is an excellent series. Good characters, unique storyline, and great ending...music isn't too bad either. As for which series is better, that's kinda difficult...I'm partial to Gainax animes but I'd have to say Cowboy bebop.

From: New Jersey | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Porygone
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posted 03-27-2005 03:23 PM      Profile for Porygone   Email Porygone   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Furi kuri/fooly cooly doesn't really mean anything.

It's based off the Japanese sound for groping/fondling, and that's pretty much it.

Also, the ending didn't really have much WTF factor if you paid attention to the series.

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YOU'RE WINNER!

From: Celadon City Gym | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Lark84
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posted 03-27-2005 04:16 PM      Profile for Lark84     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So which one should I watch first?
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Anthrax
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posted 03-28-2005 12:46 AM      Profile for Anthrax   Author's Homepage   Email Anthrax   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
From what I can recall, Furi Kuri can roughly be translated as "breast tweak."

The word "kuri" can also be used as an abbreviation of the Engrishifed "clitoris" (kuritoraasu or something equally phonetic and dumb).

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She told The Associated Press she first realized her son was mentally ill in 1996 when he killed her oldest child, a 25-year-old woman who suffered from cerebral palsy, by beating her with a dumbbell.

From: Somebody put shit in my pants! | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 03-29-2005 03:28 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Lark84: So which one should I watch first?

Depends on how much time you have. You could, theoretically, watch all of FLCL in about 2 hours, but it takes little time to digest each episode, so I don't recommend it.

Also I finally decided to vote for FLCL, after remembering a couple more of the Bebop filler episodes, like the one where that guy saves Spike in the (oh well) Columbia.

Even if I owned the whole Bebop series, I think I'd mostly watch the episodes where each character is introduced and the ones where they leave.

Well, OK, and maybe the 2-parter where Jet goes to find his ex. I can live without the story of how Jet lost his arm.

And, really, I don't care about the 2-parter with Vicious early on, except that it sets the stage for the excellent finale.

As for Furi Kuri (which even the series spells in different ways, just to make it tough to purchase the DVDs), I think it's another thing that has a meaning (the fondling thing), but it just doesn't matter.

Most things in the show are like that. There is an actual reason they're happening (like all the robot fights), it's just that the reason isn't all that important.

Anyway, like they said, if the protagonist doesn't know what it means, then it probably doesn't matter.

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
powercat
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posted 04-04-2005 01:12 AM      Profile for powercat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cowboy Bebop is one of only two anime shows that I enjoyed on Adult Swim. (The other was Outlaw Star.) I tried getting into FLCL, but it was just too odd for my taste. When will Adult Swim re-air some of the great animes of my childhood like Voltron and Robotech?!?

And now a haiku:

Bebop is late night
For my viewing pleasure time
Ein is the answer

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http://xbox360s.freepay.com/?r=24531001

From: Stockton, CA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ferquin
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posted 04-05-2005 04:42 AM      Profile for Ferquin   Author's Homepage   Email Ferquin   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If you have digital cable and are lucky enough to get the linear version (as in full programming) of Anime Network, I think they've got what you're looking for.

As for FLCL vs. Cowboy Bebop, it's kinda apples and oranges. FLCL is a short, six-episode anime about a kid crossing into adulthood with lots of cool animation and music. Cowboy Bebop is about three adults dealing with their pasts while hunting bounties in the future, also with cool animation and music. They have different storytelling styles and they're just very different shows (aside from the visual and aural aspects). You either like one or the other, or both, and accept them as different entities.

Oh, and incidentally, I was lucky enough to watch the pillows live in concert a couple weeks ago. If they ever come to your town, I highly recommend watching them live. Totally awesome.

quote:
According to Amazon, The Pillows have a new album coming out in May.
Actually, it's not really "new". It's their first American release of one of their albums, Penalty Life, which is their eleventh album which came out in 2003. the pillows have been around for fifteen years in Japan.

Geneon is basically releasing all of the pillows albums stateside. A third FLCL soundtrack will be coming out in June, but I suspect that it will be the full non-instrumental versions of the songs from the previous FLCL soundtracks. Basically, aside from the sound drama stuff on King of Pirates (FLCL OST 2) and a few other songs, the two FLCL soundtracks are an ultimate "best-of" set showcasing the pillows' music. All of the songs by the pillows from the FLCL soundtracks were pulled from their older albums.

In any case, thanks to FLCL, I've become a real fan of the pillows and I've started collecting their older stuff and it's really damn good. So far, Happy Bivouac is my favorite album. (The title track to that album is the only song that's not on the FLCL soundtracks but was used in the show during the baseball episode; couldn't tell you why it's not on the soundtracks though.)

[ 04-05-2005, 04:56 AM: Message edited by: Ferquin ]

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Ferquin N.C. Root
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From: Renton, WA, USA | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Anthrax
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posted 04-06-2005 05:26 PM      Profile for Anthrax   Author's Homepage   Email Anthrax   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ferquin:
Actually, it's not really "new". It's their first American release of one of their albums, Penalty Life, which is their eleventh album which came out in 2003. the pillows have been around for fifteen years in Japan.

Then why is it listed as being called Good Dreams? I admit that after I added it to my wishlist, it changed names from Good Dreams to Penatly Life (sic), then to just Penatly (sic again), and then back to Good Dreams.

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She told The Associated Press she first realized her son was mentally ill in 1996 when he killed her oldest child, a 25-year-old woman who suffered from cerebral palsy, by beating her with a dumbbell.

From: Somebody put shit in my pants! | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ferquin
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posted 04-08-2005 03:16 AM      Profile for Ferquin   Author's Homepage   Email Ferquin   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No offense, but Amazon is a spotty source for release dates.

Here's Geneon's page for Penalty Life, which according to their retail schedule, is due out May 3rd. I actually had the option to buy an advance copy of Penalty Life at that pillows concert I went to but chose not to since I've already got the Japanese one.

According to cdjapan, Good Dreams came out last November in Japan. I haven't heard any plans for Good Dreams to come out stateside, but I'm sure Geneon will eventually release it.

[edit]

Was this what you were talking about? It's listed as Penalty Life again.

[ 04-08-2005, 03:21 AM: Message edited by: Ferquin ]

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Ferquin N.C. Root
The Ferquinarium

From: Renton, WA, USA | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 04-08-2005 04:39 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Looks like that Samurai thing is coming to Adult Swim this summer.

And if you think this forum is lame, check out the one at adultswim.com

Well, the color scheme is OK, but the humans are insufferable.

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Liberal Media
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posted 04-08-2005 08:39 PM      Profile for Liberal Media   Email Liberal Media   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. K:
Looks like that Samurai thing is coming to Adult Swim this summer.

Sweet! It's not as good as Bebop (I've got the series on fansub, if anyone wants it), but it's still a kickass show--where did you hear this, Mr.K?

EDIT: www.adultswim.com
Duh.

[ 04-11-2005, 12:22 AM: Message edited by: Liberal Media ]

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I just want bangbangbang.

From: inside | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Anthrax
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posted 04-10-2005 01:49 AM      Profile for Anthrax   Author's Homepage   Email Anthrax   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ferquin:

Was this what you were talking about? It's listed as Penalty Life again.

and now its Good Dreams again.

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She told The Associated Press she first realized her son was mentally ill in 1996 when he killed her oldest child, a 25-year-old woman who suffered from cerebral palsy, by beating her with a dumbbell.

From: Somebody put shit in my pants! | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ferquin
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posted 04-11-2005 05:42 PM      Profile for Ferquin   Author's Homepage   Email Ferquin   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Weird. Well, I'm pretty sure it's gonna be Penalty Life that comes out in May since that's what the Anime on DVD and the Geneon Music websites say so look out for that.

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Ferquin N.C. Root
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From: Renton, WA, USA | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 07-07-2005 04:10 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Liberal Media lazily posted the following in an unrelated thread for no reason:

quote:
This doesn't deserve a new topic, but they're gonna release a remastered DVD set of FLCL in the near future. Carry on.
EDIT: Also, they released the 3rd OST for FLCL (look on Amazon). It's basically a rehash of the first two, but worth getting if you like the Pillows.

I don't really care about the remixing/remastering of FLCL. I assume the dub is going to remain the same. Any extras make it worth a rental? I already have the first DVD set. Once you buy a DVD, you ought to be able to download additional content for free.

Also Samurai Champloo is just barely worth watching. It's kind of fun, but there's a lot of blown potential, particularly if you know the Bebop guys are behind it all. I suppose if I'd just run across it, I would probably like it.

I'm enjoying Paranoia Agent so far, mostly for the atmosphere and tone, although the dub is pretty horrible.

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Liberal Media
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posted 07-07-2005 05:03 AM      Profile for Liberal Media   Email Liberal Media   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Liberal Media lazily posted the following in an unrelated thread for no reason:
Yup, "lazily" just about sums it up. Sorry.

quote:
I don't really care about the remixing/remastering of FLCL. I assume the dub is going to remain the same. Any extras make it worth a rental? I already have the first DVD set. Once you buy a DVD, you ought to be able to download additional content for free.
The thing is, there really shouldn't be anything to "remaster," since the original DVD quality was about as good as it gets--unless we're talking about a 9.1 audio remastering or something similarly retarded. I doubt they'd throw in anything OMFG-able on the DVD extras. Basically it looks as if they're gonna try to reach a new audience and capitalize on the added interest that came with the Cartoon Network airing.
In other news, Cartoon Network has announced that it will air the FLCL guy's most famous show, Neon Genesis Evangelion . I'm hoping that they'll leave the opening intact, but it has b00bz, so it looks doubtful.
Also, yeah, Paranoia Agent rocks. Perfect Blue, Millenium Actress and Tokyo Godfathers are all worth checking out if you want more from Satoshi Kon. I need to get out more.

[ 07-07-2005, 05:07 AM: Message edited by: Liberal Media ]

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I just want bangbangbang.

From: inside | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
gruco
I am Ian Garvey's lovechild.
Member # 1645

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posted 07-07-2005 08:33 PM      Profile for gruco        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Paranoia Agent is like my new favorite show, or something.
From: Clock Town | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged


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