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Author Topic: A Classless Society
IceHawk78
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posted 04-08-2004 03:42 PM      Profile for IceHawk78   Author's Homepage   Email IceHawk78   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
...is one in which most Merkins say they want, yet would never actually achieve due to their innate desire to be above someone else. But enough of that, go vote!

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From: Ohio | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Anthrax
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posted 04-08-2004 04:04 PM      Profile for Anthrax   Author's Homepage   Email Anthrax   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
a hunter-gatherer society is the only society that can be classless, and even then it's not always the case

thread over

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She told The Associated Press she first realized her son was mentally ill in 1996 when he killed her oldest child, a 25-year-old woman who suffered from cerebral palsy, by beating her with a dumbbell.

From: Somebody put shit in my pants! | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
MewtwoSama
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posted 04-08-2004 05:45 PM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I want to live in Klingon society. They yell a lot.
From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
MK
is somewhat large.
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posted 04-08-2004 06:12 PM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
without a level of classes you have communism... and communism doesn't work!

Long live capitalism [Smile]

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Charmeleon42
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posted 04-08-2004 06:15 PM      Profile for Charmeleon42   Author's Homepage   Email Charmeleon42   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Exactly... a classless society is, literally, the exact definition of communism.

If Merkins say they want a classless society, then they need to hit the history books.

From: Mountain Dew Land | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mentar the Malady Monkey
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posted 04-08-2004 07:24 PM      Profile for Mentar the Malady Monkey   Email Mentar the Malady Monkey   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by IceHawk78:
...is one in which most Merkins say they want, yet would never actually achieve due to their innate desire to be above someone else.

Wow. Fucking wow. This whole "lol classless society/libertarian socialism/libertarian communism/anarchism won't work because people are greedy!!!1" is the same fucking argument cappies and totalitarians alike have been using against classless rule for hundreds of years... think maybe anyone would have come up with a better one by now?

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WHAT.

From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Random Loser
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posted 04-08-2004 07:25 PM      Profile for Random Loser   Email Random Loser   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And if you'll bother to hit them yourselves, you'll realize that a true communist state has yet to be realized, and thus hitting the history books would do very little to dissuade one from wishing we lived in one. For the most part it is the 'ideal' state of society, simply not particularly feasible due to human nature...

EDIT:
quote:
Originally posted by Mentar the Malady Monkey:
think maybe anyone would have come up with a better one by now?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[ 04-08-2004, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: Random Loser ]

From: Uni of Virginny | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
ceoalex316
Time for the flaming leprosy party
Member # 338

posted 04-08-2004 07:49 PM      Profile for ceoalex316     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't want stupid people making the same amount of money as me
From: NYC | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Anthrax
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posted 04-08-2004 08:27 PM      Profile for Anthrax   Author's Homepage   Email Anthrax   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
HELLO PEOPLE I SAID THREAD OVER IN THE FIRST REPLY

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She told The Associated Press she first realized her son was mentally ill in 1996 when he killed her oldest child, a 25-year-old woman who suffered from cerebral palsy, by beating her with a dumbbell.

From: Somebody put shit in my pants! | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
MewtwoSama
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posted 04-08-2004 09:17 PM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ceoalex316:
I don't want stupid people making the same amount of money as me

Ferengi, MK too
From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
IceHawk78
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posted 04-08-2004 10:12 PM      Profile for IceHawk78   Author's Homepage   Email IceHawk78   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Anthrax:
HELLO PEOPLE I SAID THREAD OVER IN THE FIRST REPLY

Yes, but your singlehanded reign of terror has come to an end. And if you delete this post or anything in this topic, then you will be appeasing... yourself... and then Wintermute will have to come in and wipe the floor with everyone.
From: Ohio | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
MewtwoSama
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posted 04-08-2004 10:17 PM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
they are Q, I wouldnt mess with them.
From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 04-09-2004 03:35 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
IceHawk78
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posted 04-09-2004 10:03 AM      Profile for IceHawk78   Author's Homepage   Email IceHawk78   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hm... This is interesting. I would have thought more people would have talking about the second and third questions, but I guess the definitions of Upper/Middle/Lower levels of Upper/Middle/Lower classes is pretty much universal. Thanks for being my guinea pigs for that.

Now to write a simple 5 page paper explaining the results...

From: Ohio | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bulbasaur3000
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posted 04-09-2004 04:35 PM      Profile for Bulbasaur3000     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I found it funny how nobody here will admit to being associated with the Upper Class.

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This signature sucks. Why is it here?

From: Plano, TX =( | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
MewtwoSama
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posted 04-09-2004 04:41 PM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
the two guys above this post are T'lani, for no reason at all
From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mentar the Malady Monkey
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posted 04-09-2004 08:16 PM      Profile for Mentar the Malady Monkey   Email Mentar the Malady Monkey   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ceoalex316:
I don't want stupid people making the same amount of money as me

Not like capitalism ensures this at all.

Your success in capitalism is directly determined by how good you are at playing the game. Land speculation, buying and selling stocks and bonds, determining how far you're willing to degrade yourself for wages, etc. Stories of innovation leading to riches, as well as slowly clawing up the ladder to wealth, are sufficiently rare.

Stupid people may make the same wage as you under true communism (lol dysgenics), but at least you have some measure of dignity.

- - - - -
WHAT.

From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
MewtwoSama
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posted 04-09-2004 09:47 PM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That looks like the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition. We have another Ferengi
From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
ceoalex316
Time for the flaming leprosy party
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posted 04-10-2004 02:03 AM      Profile for ceoalex316     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Bulbasaur3000:
I found it funny how nobody here will admit to being associated with the Upper Class.

Maybe no one is associated with the upper class.
From: NYC | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Rolken
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posted 04-10-2004 03:03 AM      Profile for Rolken   Author's Homepage   Email Rolken   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
EVERYONE here is associated with the upper class for being lucky enough to live in the richest country in the world instead of some poverty-stricken African slum, you ungrateful wankers.

you brits stay out of this.

From: Provo, UT | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mentar the Malady Monkey
worst username ever
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posted 04-10-2004 03:14 AM      Profile for Mentar the Malady Monkey   Email Mentar the Malady Monkey   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Somehow, though, I get the idea the question was differentiating between "do you live in an apartment, the suburbs, or a mansion in the countryside," not "do you live in Amerika or one of the 170+ poor countries with little electricity/sanitation/freedom/food".

- - - - -
WHAT.

From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Boodabonzi
like a virgin
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posted 04-10-2004 06:59 AM      Profile for Boodabonzi   Email Boodabonzi   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rolken:
EVERYONE here is associated with the upper class for being lucky enough to live in the richest country in the world instead of some poverty-stricken African slum, you ungrateful wankers.

you brits stay out of this.

lol this thread is like the geography lessons I slept through. You can have your shitty discussion.

- - - - -
OK, I know I'm probably not the nicest Pokemon Trainer when it comes to giving advice, and if I get flamed on this, it is probably well deserved. So here goes...

From: Hitchin - biggest little shanty town in all of England | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
NintendoLover
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posted 04-10-2004 01:38 PM      Profile for NintendoLover     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Jesus loves the little children
All the children of the world
Jews and niggers, kykes and wops
Jesus thinks they all are TOPS
Jesus loves the children of the world

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I love Nintendo!

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White Cat
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posted 04-11-2004 04:47 AM      Profile for White Cat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This whole "lol classless society/libertarian socialism/libertarian communism/anarchism won't work because people are greedy!!!1" is the same fucking argument cappies and totalitarians alike have been using against classless rule for hundreds of years... think maybe anyone would have come up with a better one by now?

Yeah, and this whole "lol the Earth is round and revolves around the Sun" is the same argument that scientists and astronomers alike have been using against geocentrism for hundreds of years... think maybe anyone would have come up with a better one by now?

- - - - -
"Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula?"
-- Barack Obama, campaigning in Iowa

From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mentar the Malady Monkey
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posted 04-11-2004 10:27 PM      Profile for Mentar the Malady Monkey   Email Mentar the Malady Monkey   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by White Cat:
BOY I SURE LOVE FALSE ANALOGIES

Except that that's not their argument, it's their conclusion, genius. And they've come up with no shortage of new reasons why the earth revolves around the sun. Doesn't anyone have ANY new arguments against libertarian socialism, especially given that this system has NEVER been tried on a large scale?

edit: brevity and tags

[ 04-12-2004, 12:33 AM: Message edited by: Mentar the Malady Monkey ]

- - - - -
WHAT.

From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Charmeleon42
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posted 04-12-2004 02:16 AM      Profile for Charmeleon42   Author's Homepage   Email Charmeleon42   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Does the lack of new arguments discredit their position?

Didn't think so.

From: Mountain Dew Land | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mentar the Malady Monkey
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posted 04-12-2004 02:28 AM      Profile for Mentar the Malady Monkey   Email Mentar the Malady Monkey   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Charmeleon42:
Does the lack of new arguments discredit their position?

Didn't think so.

The fact that there hasn't been a new one since the fucking 18th century* means there's a severe lack of originality. After all, if there are so many glaring flaws in it, there should be no shortage of new ideas as people continue to advance: instead, most are content to repeat "HUMAN NATURE IS GREEDY BLAH BLAH" ad infinitum.

*I know this precedes Marx, don't bother pointing it out

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WHAT.

From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
White Cat
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posted 04-12-2004 05:28 AM      Profile for White Cat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Doesn't anyone have ANY new arguments against libertarian socialism, especially given that this system has NEVER been tried on a large scale?

It's been tried for up to eighty years in two of the largest countries on Earth, plus a bunch of smaller ones, and completely failed to achieve its "classless" and "libertarian" objectives.

*insert standard "Blah blah that wasn't really socialism so it doesn't count wah wah" reponse here*

And even you should know that if someone generally works, you don't need to come up with "new" arguments to support it, just like astronomers don't have to come up with "new" proof that the Earth isn't flat.

- - - - -
"Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula?"
-- Barack Obama, campaigning in Iowa

From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Peter the man
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posted 04-12-2004 06:19 AM      Profile for Peter the man   Author's Homepage   Email Peter the man   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cuba is a fairly functional socialist nation.

- - - - -
The F-word!
Download as a .doc file here.
Download as a .wav file here.

From: Helsinki, Finland | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mentar the Malady Monkey
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posted 04-12-2004 11:18 PM      Profile for Mentar the Malady Monkey   Email Mentar the Malady Monkey   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's been tried for up to eighty years in two of the largest countries on Earth, plus a bunch of smaller ones, and completely failed to achieve its "classless" and "libertarian" objectives.

*insert standard "Blah blah that wasn't really socialism so it doesn't count wah wah" reponse here*


You and I both know this is total bullshit. I don't even have to address this.

(Hint: "half-assed attempt at socialism followed by careless devolution into totalitarian regime" != "classless society can never exist".)

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WHAT.

From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
pkthunder
I look like your mom.
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posted 04-12-2004 11:28 PM      Profile for pkthunder   Author's Homepage   Email pkthunder   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Peter the man:
Cuba is a fairly functional socialist nation.

Sure, that's why half of all Cubans move to Miami to set up their own business.
From: Broomfield, CO | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
MewtwoSama
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posted 04-13-2004 12:08 AM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Klingon Dabo girl (lol)
From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Bulbasaur3000
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posted 04-13-2004 12:14 AM      Profile for Bulbasaur3000     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Despite having a currency and royalty, I nominate Sweden.

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This signature sucks. Why is it here?

From: Plano, TX =( | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
White Cat
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posted 04-13-2004 02:38 AM      Profile for White Cat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What Mentar doesn't get (or is delibrately not mentioning) is that "libertarian socialism" is just Phase 2 of the plan. Phase 1 is the overthrow of "bourgeoise rule" by the "proletariat", which happened in both Russia and China. However, the second part, where the state "withers away" and we're left with a classless libertarian socialist utopia, never happened. Instead, all the power ended up in the hands of a few Party members, which basically put those countries right back where they were when they had absolute monarchies, or worse.

But by pretending that Phase 2 is the whole deal, Mentar and others like him get to claim that socialism has "never been tried".

- - - - -
"Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula?"
-- Barack Obama, campaigning in Iowa

From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mentar the Malady Monkey
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posted 04-13-2004 07:54 PM      Profile for Mentar the Malady Monkey   Email Mentar the Malady Monkey   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But by pretending that Phase 2 is the whole deal, Mentar and others like him get to claim that socialism has "never been tried".

Tribal villages. I know Anthrax mentioned hunter-gatherer societies, but even in substantially large farming villages, the lack of real government was a viable option.

rec. reading: Chinua Achebe - Things Fall Apart

[ 04-13-2004, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: Mentar the Malady Monkey ]

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WHAT.

From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
NintendoLover
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posted 04-14-2004 06:14 PM      Profile for NintendoLover     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
yeah that worked untill the english dudes came in and ruined those africans shit so much that they were like "damn"

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I love Nintendo!

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Mentar the Malady Monkey
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posted 04-14-2004 06:40 PM      Profile for Mentar the Malady Monkey   Email Mentar the Malady Monkey   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I know, isn't imperialism wonderful?
From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Psybro
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posted 04-14-2004 07:47 PM      Profile for Psybro   Email Psybro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Africa has managed so wonderfully without it, after all.

God save the Queen.

From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ancient Egyptian Cat-Gonk
Happy Good Times Fortune Happiness Happity Hocks Cat-Gonk Happifier
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posted 04-19-2004 08:38 PM      Profile for Ancient Egyptian Cat-Gonk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mentar the Malady Monkey:
Wow. Fucking wow. This whole "lol classless society/libertarian socialism/libertarian communism/anarchism won't work because people are greedy!!!1" is the same fucking argument cappies and totalitarians alike have been using against classless rule for hundreds of years... think maybe anyone would have come up with a better one by now?

commie

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http://www.livejournal.com/users/jetblackvalias

From: Perth, Western Australia. | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged


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