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Author Topic: Lets see what you guys think - Liberal Bias in Schools
Charmeleon42
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posted 02-23-2004 12:57 AM      Profile for Charmeleon42   Author's Homepage   Email Charmeleon42   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
s92977126.onlinehome.us/schoolguy.wav

Pardon the crappy quality of the file. It's not that bad, but there is a bit of an airy, staticy quality to it. That's because I got it by holding my microphone up to the radio. I missed the first couple minutes because by the time I realized I wanted to record this, I still had to set up my microphone and get it close enough enough to the radio.

I want to see what you think about this. Tim Bueler, the founder of Rancho Cotate High School's Conservative Club made a statement about illegal immigration in a newsletter distributed by his club. In it he talks about the need for America to close the borders to illegal immigrants, and deport them, as well as those with expired visas.

After he printed the newsletter, he was confronted by Latino students who harassed him and called him "Racist", among other things. He turned to his teachers for help who refused to help him because they disagreed with his views. Read that again. These teachers do not care about the welfare of a student because he is a conservative. They are practically advocating that this man be beaten up because of his opinions. Although it's not covered in the audio clip I linked to (since it was addressed before I started recording), these teachers would take time out of class to ridicule this man as a racist and a bigot, again, because he is a conservative.

This is a good example of why so many young people are liberal these days - they're being taught to be liberal.

...Heck, I was until I decided to think for myself...

From: Mountain Dew Land | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mentar the Malady Monkey
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posted 02-23-2004 01:35 AM      Profile for Mentar the Malady Monkey   Email Mentar the Malady Monkey   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think the problem is political correctness both ways, not necessarily just liberalism. Students still say "under God" in schools. Textbooks still often present overly optimistic views on American history. All hell breaks loose if you express negative feelings for any religion - including Judaism and Christianity. Say you agree with terrorists, and you're obviously a monster who needs to be punished.

The politically correct bullshit goes both ways.

- - - - -
WHAT.

From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
ceoalex316
Time for the flaming leprosy party
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posted 02-23-2004 01:39 AM      Profile for ceoalex316     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Charmeleon42:
...Heck, I was until I decided to think for myself...

You are kidding right? Well you have to do a better job.

Kids that are not smart will be liberal. And adults that are not smart will be conservative.

Sure High School teaching sucks. What can you do.

From: NYC | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
MK
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posted 02-23-2004 03:09 AM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'd give a perfectly great working model on how to solve this problem, as well as many others, however, it would be unappreciated and mocked, so I'll save us both the time and not say anything...
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gruco
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posted 02-23-2004 09:57 AM      Profile for gruco        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,109546,00.html

I want to see what you think about this. Tim Bueler, the founder of Rancho Cotate High School's Conservative Club made a statement about illegal immigration in a newsletter distributed by his club. In it he talks about the need for America to close the borders to illegal immigrants, and deport them, as well as those with expired visas.

That's a very nice way of paraphrasing his request for a crackdown on every "every Muhammad, Jamul, and Jose who wishes to leave his third world state to come to America, mostly illegally," and other lovely comments such as "We feel that liberalism is a mental disorder and they attack family, faith, country, and military."

I certainly don't condone violence, but this kid is a complete troll. Not to mention xenophobic ass. But the point is that he's being incredibly antagonistic, so if people are upset with him, or even violent, it's not just a matter of an innocent conservative being victimized by free speech hating liberals.

After he printed the newsletter, he was confronted by Latino students who harassed him and called him "Racist", among other things. He turned to his teachers for help who refused to help him because they disagreed with his views.

I don't know all the detail of the confrontation, but I can think of some of good reasons why teachers wouldn't intervene. Foremost being that they never believed he was in real danger.

Look, if teachers were condoning violence, that's obviously wrong, but after seeing this kid interview on TV, I'm going to be skeptical.

Furthermore, this anecdote does not substantiate the kind of vast trend you're implying. Not any more than anecdotes about teachers reporting kids to homeland security for talking about how they hate Bush or whatever should convince anyone that schools are conservative.

This is a good example of why so many young people are liberal these days - they're being taught to be liberal.

Yes, that's exactly why.

...Heck, I was until I decided to think for myself...

...

[ 02-23-2004, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: gruco ]

From: Clock Town | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Psybro
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posted 02-23-2004 01:14 PM      Profile for Psybro   Email Psybro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am so glad that scant anecdotal evidence such is this is proof of political bias across an entire system and that Char isn't a complete idiot.
From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 02-23-2004 01:16 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'd give a perfectly great working model on how to solve this problem, as well as many others, however, it would be unappreciated and mocked, so I'll save us both the time and not say anything...

Is your goal to avoid being wrong or to avoid thinking that you could be wrong?

One of the reasons we discuss is to avoid being wrong- though that means that we may have to deal with being wrong at first, to get to the truth.

This is a good example of why so many young people are liberal these days - they're being taught to be liberal.

Actually, more young people seem conservative now. Don't think so?

How about the 60s? 70s? Even the eighties, with Reagan in charge, wasn't a very conservative time for most colleges.

I agree this kid has a right to express himself without being hassled, absolutely. And this kind of thing (the school takes one side in practice, while claiming to be neutral) *does* happen, and it has been on the side of liberalism in most places for quite some time (don't give conservatives credit for freedom: back in the 50s they were famous for eliminating books from libraries that espoused philosophies that they don't approve of, along with a bunch of other crap).

This is because most teachers and professors are liberal.

I don't see a way around it, barring a set of codes school could implement that would prevent political discrimination.

From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ikuse
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posted 02-23-2004 01:24 PM      Profile for Ikuse   Author's Homepage   Email Ikuse   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
does Char's decision to not post every incident that perpetuates a liberal bias in schools make his claim any less true?

i don't agree wtih schools teaching toward any sort of political bias, but even despite that, granted that the schools do teach a liberal political stance, there's not much they can do to justify being so militantly anti-conservative and condone such actions towards conservative students.

now, the student is pretty extreme conservative, and yes he is a militant conservative as well, but isn't it the school's responsibility to ensure the freedom of expression of political opinion without being put into danger because the staff disagrees with his standpoint?

[ 02-23-2004, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: Ikuse ]

From: In my pants. | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Wintermute
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posted 02-23-2004 01:36 PM      Profile for Wintermute   Author's Homepage   Email Wintermute   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
does Char's decision to not post every incident that perpetuates a liberal bias in schools make his claim any less true?

No. But we don't know whether it's true yet. The claim is empirical - evidence is required. We should therefore ask:

"What is the evidence?", and

"How good is the evidence?"

Char posting about one incident shouldn't be regarded as very good evidence. Notice that this doesn't mean his claim is false, either. It's either true or it isn't, and our handling of the evidence doesn't change that either way. But the quality of the evidence determines whether we should believe it is true.

From: Winnipeg, Manitoba | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 02-23-2004 01:37 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
... and in case you all get the wrong impression, I sure as hell don't like this guy's attitude or statements. In fact, this guy isn't so much a conservative as he is a fiery, impassioned young kid, who believes he has found absolute truth.

but this kid is a complete troll

Totally. But it isn't called that IRL, it's called being a "cock".

But the point is that he's being incredibly antagonistic, so if people are upset with him, or even violent, it's not just a matter of an innocent conservative being victimized by free speech hating liberals.

No, it's a minority opinion being victimized by a majority opinion, and the sort of thing we do well to stand against.

Even if the kid is a fuckwit.

Furthermore, this anecdote does not substantiate the kind of vast trend you're implying.

You are correct, it does not. However, I would argue that schools tend to be liberal over conservative- and I would be really, really shocked if you could demonstrate any evidence to the contrary. If we wanted to have this debate, I don't think it would take much effort to demonstrate my hypothesis- the campus liberal isn't just a stereotype, he's an archetype.

Sort of like the uneducated conservative hick.

In any event, this doesn't imply that schools are becoming *more* liberal over time. In fact, given that many places tend to have a conservative newspaper springing up where they NEVER had one before, I'm thinking that we're going in the other direction right now. Velocity and position are different, remember.

UF had a conservative paper. It started out ok, then within a week it was insulting people like crazy, and within a month it was "pay" (the Alligator, the one that doesn't claim to be liberal but is, is funded totally by advertising). A few months later it was gone, but if they weren't such total morons they would have done ok.

From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Wizzymoto
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posted 02-23-2004 11:07 PM      Profile for Wizzymoto   Email Wizzymoto   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Liberal schools? Maybe teachers and kids who think that they're all gonna be saints cause TV has told them that this is good.

Perhaps you've forgotten what high school is like, but here's my view as a current senior:

School's give lip service in classrooms to talking about being liberal and standing up for your rights, but the actual administrators are usually extreme conservatives.

Punch and kid and you're expelled, it doesnt matter what the hell he did or threatened to do to you, your mom, family etc.

The school "newspaper" is barred from printing anything even remotely political.

I got a parent-principal conference cause I made a sign for club fair that advertised "magic" brownies, with the magic in kinda grassy colors.

Anyways, thats just MY anecdotal evidence neways so I'm sure it isn't worth a damn, but thats just my view. Also, most of that stuff is also pretty much just breaking established rules, but it still seems pretty shitty.

Also, I think the majority of kids are conservatives around here. Lots of Warhawks. Then again, I live in "The OC", which is seriously not like that show. Where the hell r teh Azns!)!

From: Irvine, CA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ikuse
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posted 02-23-2004 11:16 PM      Profile for Ikuse   Author's Homepage   Email Ikuse   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I guess it depends on what area you're in
From: In my pants. | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 02-23-2004 11:39 PM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'd guess that most colleges are probably fairly liberal (relatively speaking), but hi skools certainly aren't. Any place that sends you home for wearing a skirt shorter than your fingertips reach is not liberal.

I looked damn fine in that skirt, too.

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
ceoalex316
Time for the flaming leprosy party
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posted 02-23-2004 11:54 PM      Profile for ceoalex316     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. K:
I'd guess that most colleges are probably fairly liberal (relatively speaking), but hi skools certainly aren't. Any place that sends you home for wearing a skirt shorter than your fingertips reach is not liberal.

I looked damn fine in that skirt, too.

That is administration, which is almost always hated by the teachers and students. Char is talking about the kids and teachers.

What is wrong with a good beating? I'd kick char's ass if IRL he started talking the same nonsense to me as he did in the atheism thread.

Edit: But think about it. Is char getting his ass kicked because he is a conservative or because he is being retarded (in the example?)

[ 02-23-2004, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: ceoalex316 ]

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Wintermute
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posted 02-24-2004 12:36 AM      Profile for Wintermute   Author's Homepage   Email Wintermute   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What is wrong with a good beating? I'd kick char's ass if IRL he started talking the same nonsense to me as he did in the atheism thread.

If this goes down, do me a favour and get it on tape.

From: Winnipeg, Manitoba | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
White Cat
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posted 02-24-2004 01:48 AM      Profile for White Cat   Author's Homepage   Email White Cat      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
WYSI:School's give lip service in classrooms to talking about being liberal and standing up for your rights, but the actual administrators are usually extreme conservatives.

Punch and kid and you're expelled, it doesnt matter what the hell he did or threatened to do to you, your mom, family etc.

The school "newspaper" is barred from printing anything even remotely political.

I got a parent-principal conference cause I made a sign for club fair that advertised "magic" brownies, with the magic in kinda grassy colors.


The last of those three is a conservative stance, the first is a maybe, and the second one is nothing of the kind.

ceoguy: Kids that are not smart will be liberal. And adults that are not smart will be conservative.

I'd say more it's the other way around, although your generalization isn't that great to begin with. Here's a better one:
quote:
"If you're not a liberal when you're twenty, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative when you're forty, you have no brain."
-- Winston Churchill


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cfalcon
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posted 02-24-2004 02:19 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ok, I'm pretty sure that studies link what we call "intelligence" to have no real correlation with political stance.

Think about it- it's a "political stance" to believe in killing everyone except you. Do you have to be stupid to have this idea? No, you just have to be evil.

From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 02-24-2004 02:44 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm sure that highschools aren't as liberal as colleges...

BUT remember that in the "liberal" mindset (maybe I mean "Democrat" here), kids are to be protected against all threats, including, generally, themselves. So there are all sorts of ludicrous rules in place, and most everybody seems ok with that (I'm actually kind of distressed to hear some of the people I grew up with talking about the benefits of sending their kids in the future to schools that have uniforms, when they themselves hated the concept).

In other words, you can't have a skirt that short in highschool because it's some kind of child-special level of indecent, but in college you are an adult and should have all the rights and privledges of one.

I felt that *my* school was pretty full of liberals among the teachers- both high school and middle school. My Baptist elementary school was not, certainly. And when I talked with people in college, they didn't all report leftwingers: many were from the south.

But, there is a Teacher's Union, and it's really, really, really liberal. I don't think it's going out on a crazy wing to assume that schools are more liberal than they are conservative.

From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 02-24-2004 08:54 PM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
cfalcon: BUT remember that in the "liberal" mindset (maybe I mean "Democrat" here), kids are to be protected against all threats, including, generally, themselves.

Sort of like a constitutional amendment to save us from the deadly menace of happy fags? Or the FCC meddling with entertainment for adults? Or the protection from weed?

That kind of "Democratic" mindset?

I felt that *my* school was pretty full of liberals among the teachers...

Pat Robertson is too liberal for you.

But, there is a Teacher's Union, and it's really, really, really liberal.

And let me know when they start making the rules...

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
IceHawk78
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posted 02-24-2004 08:57 PM      Profile for IceHawk78   Author's Homepage   Email IceHawk78   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In general, I would say that it appears to be mostly ocnservatives among everyone that I know in private schools.
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cfalcon
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posted 02-25-2004 04:20 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mr. K: cfalcon said something about liberals that also applies to conservatives, and I'll assume he didn't realize it, because he is dumb and I am smart and from now on you will address me as Ahura Mazda, wise lord, and we will call cfalcon Angra Mainyu, the Lie, the hostile spirit.

Of course conservatives favor horseshit restrictions in school. Naturally. The question posed was, why do schools have shitty dress codes if liberals are in charge?

So, the answer is that liberals and conservatives don't want high school girls wearing short skirts (WHICH IS SOOOooooo HOT). Conservatives tend to not want ANYONE to wear said clothing, and liberals just apply those ideas to kids.

But, since the discussion was about liberals, I didn't think it was necessary to bring up conservatives.

Saying "liberals breath air" does not imply that conservatives do not, after all.

From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Dweedle
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posted 02-25-2004 10:05 PM      Profile for Dweedle   Email Dweedle   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by IceHawk78:
In general, I would say that it appears to be mostly ocnservatives among everyone that I know in private schools.

do you mean private high schools or private colleges?

- - - - -
the only way to get pass this will be to commit suicune

From: second of all, Quagmire's not really a bad guy! | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ikuse
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posted 02-26-2004 12:41 AM      Profile for Ikuse   Author's Homepage   Email Ikuse   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Representing liberal-rich California. There's so many immigrants here that people have to be liberal otherwise there goes half the labor force. [Roll Eyes]
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Thomas
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I plan on driving up to Santa Clarita over the weekend and sodomizing you with a novelty-sized Sharpie.
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Ikuse
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posted 02-26-2004 12:59 AM      Profile for Ikuse   Author's Homepage   Email Ikuse   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
k sounds fun later cn we go to starbucks and pay way too mch for coffee??
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Thomas
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Actually, I know of a quaint little coffee shop off of Main that makes a killer Frappuchino.
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Ikuse
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posted 02-26-2004 01:08 AM      Profile for Ikuse   Author's Homepage   Email Ikuse   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's a date! I'll bring the condoms and lube, you supply everything else.
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Thomas
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posted 02-26-2004 01:09 AM      Profile for Thomas     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Everything else?
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Ikuse
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posted 02-26-2004 01:21 AM      Profile for Ikuse   Author's Homepage   Email Ikuse   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Whatever you want. :ctrl-6:
From: In my pants. | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 02-26-2004 11:25 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
cflakkin has been banned until he learns how to express himself.

In the meantime, if he wants something posted on a thread, he can e-mail me up to 3 sentences at a time, spell- and grammar-checked.

Messages that do not comply with the rules will be deleted and ignored.

Attempts to circumvent the rules will extend the length of the ban by one week per attempt.

- - - - -
newbalance is my favorite shoe because they combine style and comfort in an affordable package suitable for people of all ages.

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