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Author Topic: Matrix spoilers here
New Guy
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posted 11-05-2003 02:51 PM      Profile for New Guy   Email New Guy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm kinda interested in how it all wraps up, but I don't care enough about the movie to go watch it.

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@!!**... I forgot my chain saw!-Satan

From: Georgia | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
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posted 11-05-2003 03:25 PM      Profile for Psybro   Email Psybro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Psybro Theory (yes I've seen the movie but it's fairly open-ended, and not in a good way):

The Oracle allows herself to be absorbed by Smith. This imbalances him whilst allowing him to see the future. He sees himself winning so gets pissed off when Neo won't give up in their battle to decide it all inside the Matrix.

Then he absorbs Neo anyway, but this allows his code to be disseminated to the Source along with Neo's. Thus the equation managing the Matrix is finally balanced, allowing it to reboot once more.

Zion is allowed continued existence this time instead of being destroyed, otherwise everything turns out pretty much exactly how the Architect saw it in Reloaded.

Thus the machines still dominate the planet yet the people in Zion think they've won for some reason.

[ 11-05-2003, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: Psybro ]

From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
ReturnofNumeroUno
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posted 11-05-2003 06:18 PM      Profile for ReturnofNumeroUno   Email ReturnofNumeroUno   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Final battle was kinda disappointing and it wasn't as exciting as some of the earlier fights that were in Matrix: Reloaded. The Zion battle was ok, I don't really care for any of the parts of the movie that occurs outside of the Matrix.

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Ich Liebe NintendoLover

From: Pembroke Pines Florida | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
10,000Lb.Snorlax
loves long time.
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posted 11-05-2003 08:09 PM      Profile for 10,000Lb.Snorlax   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Also It sucks

(PS I HAVEN"T SEEN IT YET BUT I AM RACIST)

From: Denver | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Charmeleon42
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posted 11-06-2003 04:20 AM      Profile for Charmeleon42   Author's Homepage   Email Charmeleon42   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Zion battle was ok

A meager okay? That battle was fucking cool...

EDIT: Just reading the Fark post about it... jesus fuck it's hard to please such whiners.

This thread is already deemed spoiler land, so I don't need to shield it from people's view...

Some people are bitching "oh, what about humans being machine batteries and stuff, what will they do for juice if people are going to be free"... I say why does it matter? Going and explaining the machines' research and development of an alternate source of power is irrelevant.

Some people are like "oh, they don't spend enough time in the matrix, they should be there more"... I say no they damn well shouldn't, there's no time for people to be dilly-dallying inside the matrix (read: which is Smith-town anyway, and is dangerous as all hell,) especially when Zion is about to be invaded... they need everyone they can get to defend the dock and stuff.

Everything they bitch about is so dumb...

[ 11-06-2003, 04:40 AM: Message edited by: Charmeleon42 ]

From: Mountain Dew Land | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
JohtoMaster
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posted 11-06-2003 06:32 AM      Profile for JohtoMaster   Author's Homepage   Email JohtoMaster   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The movie itself was good: better than Reloded, IMHO. The ending blew, no ifs, ands, or buts. I would rather of had the "they are all robots" ending than the piece of shit "happy ending" they gave us.

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Oh, and it's not "newbies", it's "proles". Nothing wrong with being new to the game if you're not stuck in the working classes. Hey, if we're going to be elitist, may as well go the whole hog and refer to the idiots as a lower social rank... - CatGonk at SoaG

From: Valparaiso, IN, USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Psybro
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posted 11-06-2003 12:52 PM      Profile for Psybro   Email Psybro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Charmeleon42:
Some people are like "oh, they don't spend enough time in the matrix, they should be there more"... I say no they damn well shouldn't, there's no time for people to be dilly-dallying inside the matrix (read: which is Smith-town anyway, and is dangerous as all hell,) especially when Zion is about to be invaded... they need everyone they can get to defend the dock and stuff.

Everything that happened in Zion up until the docks were invaded was boring filler. People started watching the movies for the Matrix scenes and bullet time, not a bunch of guys in holes bitching about shit.
From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
New Guy
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posted 11-06-2003 02:00 PM      Profile for New Guy   Email New Guy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What was the happy ending? Certainly does not seem happy from psybro's description.

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@!!**... I forgot my chain saw!-Satan

From: Georgia | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Clicky Pensi
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posted 11-06-2003 02:10 PM      Profile for Clicky Pensi     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The happy ending was that the robots and humans came to a piece treaty, thanks to Neo.

Good movie, would see again, Zion dock battle fucking rocked. Smith fight reminded me of fucking DBZ, once they were up in the air. -5 points.

Still, would watch again.

However, my friends are fucking dipwads. Neo's lying there dead and they think he's unconscious, and that the machines will revive him with energy or some shit. I'm never going to see a movie like The Matrix with friends again. EVER. If it's clearly the end of the trilogy, I don't want to wait fucking 10 minutes for goddamn credits. No one cares who picked up after everyone's shit. Movie was still damn good. end post.

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Chumble spuzz.

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Brayze
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posted 11-06-2003 02:29 PM      Profile for Brayze     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The plot was alright, but the one-liners sorta made the movie lampoon itself with SHEER RETARDED MELODRAMA.

Come on, when that kid had to open the dock door and says "I believe, Neo!!", my friends and I burst out laughing, and so did everyone around us. Did the writers realize how ridiculous that sounded? There were a number of sucky instances like that, but really that one was the worst. It just made to moments of the movie which were supposed to be the most dramatic downright silly.

Worth seeing for the awesome action, but wouldn't see again.

Best line: "Shit," when Neo runs through the train station and winds up in the same place.

From: Lunar Palace ver. 3.1 | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr.E
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posted 11-06-2003 03:02 PM      Profile for Mr.E     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Brayze:
Best line: "Shit," when Neo runs through the train station and winds up in the same place.



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MickHale18: nevermind, I'll pull out for a second
MickHale18: *pulls out finger*

From: Munchkin Land, Oz | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Dark_Herakurosu
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posted 11-06-2003 05:37 PM      Profile for Dark_Herakurosu   Author's Homepage   Email Dark_Herakurosu   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mr.E:
quote:
Originally posted by Brayze:
Best line: "Shit," when Neo runs through the train station and winds up in the same place.



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Dweedle
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posted 11-06-2003 07:35 PM      Profile for Dweedle   Email Dweedle   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Psybro:
Then he absorbs Neo anyway, but this allows his code to be disseminated to the Source along with Neo's. Thus the equation managing the Matrix is finally balanced, allowing it to reboot once more.

Zion is allowed continued existence this time instead of being destroyed, otherwise everything turns out pretty much exactly how the Architect saw it in Reloaded.

Thus the machines still dominate the planet yet the people in Zion think they've won for some reason.

The way I saw it was that the equation did not balance out, but in fact Neo won over Smith, with the aid of the machines, but at the cost of his own life. Therefore it didn't really turn out the way the Architect said. The main point of the Architect's speech was that there would only be a few people to rebuild Zion, but in this case everyone was saved (except the people that died in battle, which was not nearly as much as would have died if the machines didn't stop fighting).

Also I think it's more that the humans and machines share the planet now, and that's why the humans won.

Some other points:

In Reloaded it was said that the machines have other means of survival besides the human bodies, so they don't need them as batteries, they just happened to be the method of energy they used.

And I'm glad I have never seen DBZ, because I thought that fight between Smith and Neo was awesome.

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the only way to get pass this will be to commit suicune

From: second of all, Quagmire's not really a bad guy! | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 11-06-2003 07:58 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In reloaded they imply that the human "batteries" are the *best* way to do things, but not the *only* way to do things.

The use of humans is batteries is very much worth bitching about, though: becaues it's hyperimpossible. If they had thrown some magic in, sure, but they make it sound like science.

The reason is simple: they have to have food for those people. If they just burned the food, they would get more energy out of it then if they fed it to the people.

My interpretation was that Neo won, and understood how to win. When he realized he couldn't win through fighting- that Smith was effectively invincible- he understood that he could still win if he became a Smith, and so that's what he did.

- Why is The Matrix still ongoing?
- Why was there not much of an ending?
- How did Smith get inside a human body? "Not impossible, inevitable!" is a poor explanation.

There are other good questions.

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Subject: Ninja and Opensource

From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Charmeleon42
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posted 11-07-2003 01:08 AM      Profile for Charmeleon42   Author's Homepage   Email Charmeleon42   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The use of humans is batteries is very much worth bitching about, though

No, it's not. It's sci-fi; it just works. The movie doesn't require an accompanied technical manual.

[ 11-07-2003, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: Charmeleon42 ]

From: Mountain Dew Land | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 11-07-2003 02:47 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No, it's not. It's sci-fi; it just works.

Nosir, that would be "magic". It would work well if it were a fantasy movie, or if they threw in some line like "unknown psychic abilities of the human brain". But they went with biology.

The movie doesn't require an accompanied technical manual.

I require it to not grossly violate the laws of physics. Hoverships, giant robots, whatever.

Would you consider it stupid if they got their power by releasing bowling balls which were then shot upward by the fact that at certain spots on the earth, gravity is naturally reversed? Of course. Because that is observably false.

Their method of power generation is either laughably inefficient or in violation of a key law of thermodynamics. Either way it is stupid, and it makes them look stupid- especially given that they could come up with different, valid reasons if they so chose.

Now I'm usually on your side of this, and in order to enjoy the Matrix series I've just had to deal.

But it is a very legitimate complaint, and not a "technical detail".

A "technical detail" is how a ship goes into hyperspace, or how a ship floats, or how a transporter works, or what make up the pretty blast that comes from the blaster.

Hey, why do stories have hyperspace / warp drive?

Do you know?

It's because you can't go faster than light!

And if they just went faster than light, everyone would say "Oh, that's stupid." So they get around it with a quick handwave, done.

So they could have given us one, instead of going with the "physically impossible" route.

From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
starCaliber
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posted 11-07-2003 05:11 AM      Profile for starCaliber   Email starCaliber   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
eh, I really didn't like it that well. too much emphasis on what basically played out to be a MechWarrior-esque fight with an endless wave of flying mechanical spiders with an uninspired name, all rounded out by featuring none of the main characters.

and call me a sap, but i really would have liked the movie better if they'd kept Neo and Trinity alive to fuck each other for the rest of their lives. i think they kinda forgot what made the original movie so cool; nobody gives a flying fuck about Zion or any of the rest of that shit. it was the philosophical musings wrapped up in a nice package of cool characters kicking a lot of ass that made the Matrix good. killing off two of them and turning the third into a raging pussy (he could have at least made out with Niobe at the end, wtf) isn't exactly what i consider to be an ideal closing.

the Smith fight was alright, even that DBZ sky shit they were doing. it felt like they did a pretty good job connecting the matrix to the real world as the plot progressed, so that was sorta cool.

i liked the original the best, reloaded second best, and this one least. whoever said that they were trying to force a plot where there was none made a pretty accurate statement. the sequels were nice epilogues, but really had no prayer of living up to the insane quality of the original.

From: San Francisco, CA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
BigCheese
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posted 11-07-2003 04:02 PM      Profile for BigCheese   Email BigCheese   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The one liners sucked, that's true. What the hell was up with the oracle? Could they not get the original actor, and tried to explain it that way?

What I really didn't like is that it was very little of the original characters. They were there, but not that much. It was about all these other characters I didn't give a shit about (that kid should not have been in that movie, every single scene with him was cliched).

I liked the war scene, but the ending was a little predictable that Neo would die.

Basically my complaint is that it wasn't really the matrix. They didn't add a whole lot of their theories/philosophies (sp) or whatever. They had some at the beginning and some at the end, and that was it. No "there is no spoon" stuff. I just miss the coolness of the first movie when it came out. The 2nd and 3rd were good, just they should have ended it after the first one. Hell, you could have changed the names of the characters and locations in the 2nd and 3rd and called it another movie title, and I would have pulled it off.

</bitching>

[ 11-07-2003, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: BigCheese ]

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I have a nice butt!

From: The land of milk and honey...and cheese | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tghost
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posted 11-07-2003 05:08 PM      Profile for Tghost   Author's Homepage   Email Tghost   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Could they not get the original actor

Ermm, yeah. She dieded.

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My brain went on vacation and left my pancreas in charge

From: Auckland, New Zealand | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jman
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posted 11-07-2003 08:10 PM      Profile for Jman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What the fuck.

The ending makes perfect and logical sense, at least to me. You just have to think a bit.

Do you not remember the supposedly useless scene in Reloaded where Neo is talking the the Chancellor guy (its been forever since I've seen Reloaded, I can't remember his name) in the giant area full of maitenence machines? What does he say? Something to the effect of: Machine would not exist without man, yet man would not exist without machine. Agent Smith, being a former machine program and freed by a human (Neo), was a glitch in the system. He was the problem, and he was created by the efforts of both man and machine. When Neo is plugged in to fight Smith by the "head" machine (whatever you want to call it), he fights Smith until he finally realizes the truth: Man and machine depend on each other and it would take both machine and man to defeat the problem they created. Neo provided to the body, the machine provided the code/program/virus/whatever to defeat the Smiths.

In the end, the Matrix, now empty of all humans because every human plugged into it was turned into Smith (and thusly was destroyed), is a peaceful area that houses the programs the machines made. Afterall, where else are they to live? They were never apart of the real world so they continue to do what they were programmed to do. Besides, who knows if they'll need the Matrix again?

The humans and machines in the real world made peace with one another through Neo. In war the enemy of my enemy is my friend. And even though the machines and humans were fighting a war (though they may have seen how meaningless it was), they realized they needed to join together to defeat their enemy.

Its hardly a "nice" ending. Only the number of humans who were in Zion exist now. All those in the Matrix are dead. The Matrix still exists for the machines to use again, including its never ending programs such as the Oracle and Architect. Zion is destroyed and its not like the Earth is any better off now. The sky is still scorched and the robots still dominate the surface. Yes, the Zionites were saved. Yes, the war is over. But that doesn't mean it can't happen again. All peaces are temporary and the Matrix still exists.

There is so much more to type and stuff but thats all I'm gonna write for now.

[ 11-07-2003, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: Jman ]

From: da burgh | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Wizzymoto
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posted 11-07-2003 08:11 PM      Profile for Wizzymoto   Email Wizzymoto   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
But it is a very legitimate complaint, and not a "technical detail".
quote:
The reason is simple: they have to have food for those people. If they just burned the food, they would get more energy out of it then if they fed it to the people.
That seems technical enough for me.

I mean, if they had this little line where they explain that like human brains in the Matricks generate some kind of alpha wave dealie that powers them, would that satisfy you?

Cause then you could just make it up yourself ya know.

Also seeing Smith in LoTR ruined his character for me for some reason.

First impressions, just have to be the reason why I think Keanu Reeves is a dumass. Either that or he's a dumass.

From: Irvine, CA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
ThaMasta
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posted 11-08-2003 11:24 AM      Profile for ThaMasta   Author's Homepage   Email ThaMasta   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i think you've all missed off one very important aspect.

That french dude's wife is friggin fine.

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Dude8649: most of my posts are good

From: Blighty. | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
Psybro
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posted 11-08-2003 11:32 AM      Profile for Psybro   Email Psybro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jman:
Its hardly a "nice" ending.

Then maybe they could have directed it so it didn't seem like the happiest of all happy endings.

Face it, the ending SUCKED ASS.

From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jman
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posted 11-08-2003 04:09 PM      Profile for Jman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I thought it was appropriate.

An age old war is over and it shows that both man and machine were happy about peace. Remember that the sunset was also set off by the little girl - a program who supposedly had no purpose. We know that she was able to create beautiful sunsets, but at the time before the peace the robots did not think that it was appropriate to keep her in the Matrix.

Think what you want, but I think its wonderful symbolism.

Edit: Spelling

[ 11-08-2003, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: Jman ]

From: da burgh | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
BigCheese
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posted 11-08-2003 05:18 PM      Profile for BigCheese   Email BigCheese   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tghost:
Could they not get the original actor

Ermm, yeah. She dieded.

Really? I didn't know that. Nevermind that part of my rant then.

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I have a nice butt!

From: The land of milk and honey...and cheese | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
ceoalex316
Time for the flaming leprosy party
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posted 11-09-2003 05:34 PM      Profile for ceoalex316     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by cfalcon:
I require it to not grossly violate the laws of physics.

Science FICTION dude.

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Maximum Penetration Industries.

From: NYC | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
The Muffin King
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posted 11-09-2003 06:51 PM      Profile for The Muffin King   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
cfalcon is the biggest fucking dork ever.

They already said in Matrix 1 that the human body generates a shitload of electricity, and that dead humans were ground up and fed to the living ones. Something like that.

It doesn't seem logical, as you think the machines would have just made power plants or something after a while. Regardless, it doesn't fucking matter- without those people, there wouldn't be a storyline.

Oh yeah, and this one disappointed the shit out of me. Reloaded remains my favorite.

From: Maryland | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Fluorine
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posted 11-09-2003 08:56 PM      Profile for Fluorine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
who cares

also it sucked and my appreciation of the whole trilogy is expressed by the following mathematically absurd statement: 1 > 2 > 3

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MK
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posted 11-10-2003 12:06 AM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I saw the movie tonight...

Anyway, I have a couple of questions...

*What was the real point of the train station and how did Neo end up there? Was it when he disabled the Sentinels in the real world with his hands? And what is the train station's real purpose? Is it a way that outdated programs can escape deletion?

*At the end the Oracle tells the little girl something like "He'll [Neo] will (probably?) be back." And then there's that bright sunrise... Now, does this mean that just another "One" will return someday, or that Neo is like a part of the matrix now, or is the sunlight hope for the future, what do you all make of that?

cflacon, as for Smith getting in a human body, watch "Reloaded" again... Smith copied his program into that human while the human was in the matrix, so when he jacked out, Smith's program went with him, it only makes sense...

And yeah, in the train station, I guessed that running towards the tunnel wouldn't work, that was cool...

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LanderZRPG
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posted 11-10-2003 12:46 AM      Profile for LanderZRPG   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Meh, saw it last night; movie sucked. Badly. I was bored throughout the whole Zion parts.

And what biblical reference is there to the blind man? I know there is a Greek one; what's-his-name the prophet, who was blind and near some pool of freaky water... Heracles went to see him to find out how to redeem himself after murdering his wife and kids. However, I'm pretty sure there's a Christian reference to that, somewhere...

Train station:
-A method with which Mr. Frenchman can be brought back. 'Merka can't go without making the French seem evil, now can it?
-A place where Neo's powers are not Godly; he is God in the Matrix, but not outside (Well, in the 'real world', he is, since he can blow up all ye' ol' robots, but not here). Plus, it's always good to know that he's not invincible.
-A way to introduce Sophie
-A way to explain some stuff that I failed to hear, and that which I did hear I didn't listen to.
-A way to make [insert race of that 'direct' woman] women look bad
-A plotline to take Neo out of the scene for a little while, so we can watch Morpheus and Trinity (and the Oracle guard guy) fight
-A plotline to show Trinity's love for Neo, again, and leading up to the "6 hours ago I said I'd do anything for you; what changed" shpiel.

Ummm... Yeah, he let Smith take him over, so the machines could Anti-virus him. Also, his body is taken away to the place ABOVE where all the humans live [Fun with biblical references...] however, I know there is some way they connect machines to heaven [Economy? Something like that], but I don't consider this movie worth my time to think about it.

Air fight scene: Would have been nice if we could have watched more than half of it, due to it being blocked by water every 3 seconds...

As for the human-body-Smith + "Not impossible, inevitable" thing, it was a good method to make everyone realize that "hey, Smith isn't just a problem in the Matrix; he's a problem everywhere!" deal, which means Neo has to continue on the path he's chosen.

As for seeing Neo again, "someday"; this is now Version 7 of the Matrix, at the end of the movie. Another Neo will be around, sometime, although I'm not entirely sure 'why', since this one saved everyone already.

And was it just me, or did the blend between this movie and the second lose a day? I could have sworn that the machines killed Zion in the 2nd, yet it seemed to be 24 hours previous the arrival in this movie. Wasn't what's-his-face (Bane?) the "only survivor"? Or was he the only survivor of the other ship, or what?

Corny lines... yeah, plenty of those. Especially the 100% out-of-place "I believe, Neo!"... that made me and my dad roll our eyes in patheticness.

As soon as Neo started running in the train station, I called the "he's going to come from the other direction" thing; I so called it. Was still funny, though; everyone laughed when he cursed.

Oh, and as for all the humans that Smith turned into him: they are probably not dead... The programs Smith infected, namely Oracle and Sophie (btw, very cool cat/deja vu thing again... I think that was my favourite part of the movie), were 'alright' afterward; even before the Matrix rebooted. I'm assuming that the humans would be alright, too; the 'Smith'-part of them was deleted/fixed by the grand Antivirus program-thing. So, presumebly, all the humans will be freed (As the Oracle and Architect discussed), and probably get to Zion to help rebuild, or some such.

In the end, the equation did balance out, exactly as it was meant to. The two opposites were combined, then resolved. Consider it a matter of x + 4 = y + 4 [the fours are negatives, due to being equals on opposite sides... Neo and Smith are the pinnacles of good and evil, both are on opposite sides, and both are equal]. They first combine to one side, x + 4 - 4 = y. Then it is resolved, ala Antivirus holy-cross thingy, resolving to x=y. Or some such. The Architect was right; the equations did need to balance, and the Oracle was right, the war needed to end. Both worked, both were happy, and thus both saw eachother without getting into an old-person-showdown, or something stupid.
I still think she should have offered him some candy.

And who was the 'mother' of the Matrix, that the Architect talked about? Was it the machine-thing Neo talked to, the spiky-ball-face-thing? Didn't have much of a part in the movie; at least the Architect says some interesting things.

[Edit] I also called the impaled-Trinity thing, when they showed he face, then her hand, then her face, then her hand again... they were avoiding it, so it was rather obvious... Ha ha to ugly bad-line lady.

[ 11-10-2003, 12:49 AM: Message edited by: LanderZRPG ]

- - - - -
From what we've learned, it seems like you'd prefer girls dressed in ant costumes or something... -Kazuki (Regarding tl;dr)

Owner of the Power Advantage DBZ RPG
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From: High Prairie, AB, Canada | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Charmeleon42
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posted 11-10-2003 01:01 AM      Profile for Charmeleon42   Author's Homepage   Email Charmeleon42   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
movie sucked. Badly.

If you didn't like it, how could you write so much about it hmmmm?

You know you loved it : )

From: Mountain Dew Land | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
MK
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posted 11-10-2003 01:19 AM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And was it just me, or did the blend between this movie and the second lose a day? I could have sworn that the machines killed Zion in the 2nd, yet it seemed to be 24 hours previous the arrival in this movie. Wasn't what's-his-face (Bane?) the "only survivor"? Or was he the only survivor of the other ship, or what?

In the 2nd movie, they simply lost a battle with the sentinels as they were APPROACHING Zion... not at Zion itself...

To get the full story on what happened with Bane you have to have played the "Enter the Matrix" video game... Basically they took almost all of the remaining ships they had and had a plan that if they placed them in just the right locations (distanced just far enough from each other) they could ALL use their EMP Shockwave at once and with their combined ships and a big wall of shockwave, disable ALL of the sentinels before they even made it to Zion... This was very risky because if they were too far apart there would be a gap in the shockwave and if they were too close it would knock out each other's ships...

however, Agent Smith took over Bane's body and then Agent Smith, using Bane's body, PURPOSELY sabotaged the effort, Smith sent off the EMP shockwave before they were ready, therefore disabling all the other ships and killing them ^_^

So, had Smith not been able to enter the real world, their big first line of defense MIGHT have worked...

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MK
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posted 11-10-2003 01:24 AM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh and as for the "mother" of the matrix, the mother of the matrix WAS the Oracle...

Something like, they had to implement the illusion/ability of "choice" so people would accept the matrix, or something like that...

Since movie one a big theme was "choice"

You have to make a choice, you have to make a choice... the Oracle was responisible for that I think... But I do know that the mother of the matrix was the Oracle, makes the ending more dramtic, the mother and father both looking at their creation...

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ceoalex316
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posted 11-10-2003 01:55 AM      Profile for ceoalex316     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Plus the movie pointed out, as Neo said that his purpose for everything (life, etc...) is choice.
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cfalcon
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posted 11-10-2003 06:05 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
All those in the Matrix are dead.

I didn't get that impression. In fact, I'm pretty fucking sure that isn't the case, because when the Architect and the Oracle are talking, she says "will those who want freedom be released" or something, and the Architect says yes, and she asks him for his word, and he says something like "what do you think I am, human?"

So if everyone's dead, they wouldn't say that. Because there wouldn't be people in the Matrix anymore. Additionally, it would totally blow Neo's messianic role (the glowing cross was a tad overdone thanks) if everyone just ended up dead. Plus there was a nice pretty sky, which would be stupid if everyone was dead, and the little girl woke up, so she wasn't dead.

On the other topic... look, I don't normally nitpick (and I had to dismiss that battery crap as dumb when it first came up in order to enjoy the show)... but that one was really stupid. Remember when they went into Warp in Star Trek? That violates laws of physics. So they have a special warp drive, a device that does something that we don't understand. When they want to teleport in Star Trek, they don't just blink out: they need a transporter. Planets don't just explode in Star Wars: there is a Giant Moon Of Death that kills them with a primitive special effect. Arnold doesn't just go back in time to kill Sarah Conner, there is a time travel device that transports him. When laws of physics are grossly violated in sci-fi, there is a special device that is a black box, and when you press the go button, it violates the laws of physics.

Here there is none. They just say that they get power from humans. There's no magic psi-box, no great explanation, just a general ignorance of the second law of thermodynamics. You might call that a technical point, but it really isn't- it's just something they overlooked.

From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Dark_Herakurosu
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posted 11-10-2003 09:16 AM      Profile for Dark_Herakurosu   Author's Homepage   Email Dark_Herakurosu   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Where does the time travel device come from, in the future? You could say "they have better technology", but that's just another magic box. Without huge amounts of energy, time travel is impossible. I doubt a human could survive, with such a high energy volume. The Matrix is meant to be mysterious and have many interpretations. Perhaps we could say the little pods absorb almost all electrical impulses and heat and potential energy from the person? Then would you be happy? Or maybe we should go even deeper, and say that theyhave the technology. But then you still aren't satisfied, are you?

- - - - -
There is more money being spent on breast implants and Viagra today than on Alzheimer's research. This means that by 2040, there should be a large elderly population with perky boobs, huge erections, and absolutely no recollection of what to do with them.

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Wintermute
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posted 11-10-2003 04:36 PM      Profile for Wintermute   Author's Homepage   Email Wintermute   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
God I hate movie reviews that are basically fanfic outlines. Go write your fanfic then.

If anyone thought that this one was boring or meandering or lacked focus, I can only ask how the jesus fuck you sat through Reloaded. Other than the Architect scene and the part where the Oracle explains some of the sociogeography of the Matrix.

The use of humans is batteries is very much worth bitching about

Yes, thank god someone is taking a stand.

From: Winnipeg, Manitoba | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
JohtoMaster
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posted 11-10-2003 05:06 PM      Profile for JohtoMaster   Author's Homepage   Email JohtoMaster   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by LanderZRPG:
As for seeing Neo again, "someday"; this is now Version 7 of the Matrix, at the end of the movie. Another Neo will be around, sometime, although I'm not entirely sure 'why', since this one saved everyone already.

If this is really the 7th version of the Matrix, then it is the end of the Matrix. The war is over, and will remain over, and the Matrix has reached its completion, a la the Christian numeroloy of the number 7, which means completion (i.e. God created the universe in 7 days, pretty much all of Revelations).

Also, about the humans in the Matrix all being dead, I disagree with that, and would have posted something about it earlier, but feared widespread ridicule.

Also, did Agent Smith absorb the deja vu cat? In the end, the Oracle and Sophie, both of which were absorbed by Smith, are seen lying dead on the sidewalk, as is the cat. If so, what power did this grant him any special powers (i.e. absorbing the Oracle gave him her power of prophecy)? Geez, I am making him sound like Kirby here...

- - - - -
Oh, and it's not "newbies", it's "proles". Nothing wrong with being new to the game if you're not stuck in the working classes. Hey, if we're going to be elitist, may as well go the whole hog and refer to the idiots as a lower social rank... - CatGonk at SoaG

From: Valparaiso, IN, USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
MK
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posted 11-10-2003 06:37 PM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Smith probably just absorbed anything that moved... for that matter, he could absorb trees and cups of coffee (they're all programs right?)

But, non-animate objects probably don't serve much purpose for assimilation... maybe whatever he took over had to have basic motor functions to be compatible with his code he copied onto them...

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Psybro
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posted 11-10-2003 06:47 PM      Profile for Psybro   Email Psybro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
If anyone thought that this one was boring or meandering or lacked focus, I can only ask how the jesus fuck you sat through Reloaded. Other than the Architect scene and the part where the Oracle explains some of the sociogeography of the Matrix.

The Architect scene was what would make me rate Reloaded above Revolutions.

When he turned up at the end I perked up because I thought he'd go all Mr. Exposition on us again. No such luck.

From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 11-10-2003 07:00 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If anyone thought that this one was boring or meandering or lacked focus, I can only ask how the jesus fuck you sat through Reloaded.

I'm basically telling people at work that this movie is better than the last one, but not by a whole lot.

The use of humans is batteries is very much worth bitching about

Yes, thank god someone is taking a stand.


You have been sent by God to torment me.

From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
New Guy
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posted 11-10-2003 08:42 PM      Profile for New Guy   Email New Guy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
God does not exist.

So I saw it anyway. Got dragged by a friend. The big fight scene in Zion was prob my favorite special effects bit. You see it from many different angles, witch made it more interesting. But I really was not paying much attention. It took me a beat to realize that the black guy with the cleft chin in the mech was not the same black guy with a cleft chin in command central.

I admit I never predicted Trinity dying. Neo dying was practically a given, but I figured he would give Trin a big talk about why he has to do it, a tearful goodbye, etc.

Three problems I had with the movie. One, the oracles ears. They were stretched out from those heavy earrings. Just made my skin crawl a little bit. Two, the TrainMan beat Neo far too easily IMO. One punch? C'mon. There should have at least been a few seconds worth of sparring. Three, not enough Morpheus. He should have hopped in a mech and owned a crapload of calamari. Or fought of some more agents. But I guess nothing could really compare to his excellent freeway scene in reloaded.

As for the ending, It was ok. I kinda like how the whole thing was orchestrated by the oracle. She(it?) played everybody, even Smith and Neo. I guess most people were expecting the humans to destroy the machines and destroy the matrix. Coexistance is a much better alternative.

- - - - -
@!!**... I forgot my chain saw!-Satan

From: Georgia | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Barrierd
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posted 11-10-2003 10:25 PM      Profile for Barrierd   Email Barrierd   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I saw the movie on Saturday night. My thoughts:

-The peace treaty was created because the Machine was 'worried' about Smith destroying everything. Smith is now gone. What's the point in keeping peace now in the point of view of the machines? In my opinion, nothing. I don't expect that machines program themselves with morals, so why would they get rid of the Matrix?

-The entire movie was two fight scenes with an obsene amount of filler. Maybe two and a half fight scenes.

-A lot of the lines were just so bad. It would help if sometimes they didn't... talk. Some lines have already been discussed ("I believe, Neo!") but there are too many and some I can't remember for me to write them all down (also "What do you think I am, human?" Aaargh!).

-The guys sitting behind me and my friends were hilarious. Usually I am pissed off by talkers, but these guys knew when to shut up and when to mouth off. When Trinity demanded Neo to "Kiss me", they concluded it with "you fool!" I was almost crying trying to hold back my laughter. I think maybe it's something where you had to be there...

-So didn't that Machine- face Neo negotiated with looked like Zordon from Power Rangers? I need a good picture of the face to compare with this:



- - - - -
Where are my bitches

From: Victoria, B.C., Canada | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
ceoalex316
Time for the flaming leprosy party
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posted 11-10-2003 11:48 PM      Profile for ceoalex316     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Power Rangers are gayer than pokemon (no offense to the gay people,) we have to draw a line somewhere.

The two new matrix films would have been good if we weren’t expecting them to be like the original. Those are just two different types of films.

The first one was a spark of imagination. The others were derived from the first.

Plus the gay lines. That kid just left a bad impression. I thought they made him look cheesy because perhaps the war wasn’t really over, but this wasn’t the case.

- - - - -
Maximum Penetration Industries.

From: NYC | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
LanderZRPG
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posted 11-11-2003 04:32 AM      Profile for LanderZRPG   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MK:
Smith probably just absorbed anything that moved... for that matter, he could absorb trees and cups of coffee (they're all programs right?)

But, non-animate objects probably don't serve much purpose for assimilation... maybe whatever he took over had to have basic motor functions to be compatible with his code he copied onto them...

Yeah... he probably just took over every 'person' in the Matrix, and probably most of the 'program people'. The Deja-vu cat doesn't really have any power, but it was a nice touch from the first move. Basically, it's the deja-vu which is the power [the machines are changing something in the Matrix]. However, I think it's a nice sentiment to dedicate Deja Vu to the cat. They never do it with anything else. And Black cats kick butt, anyway.

And as for the 7, yes, I should have realized that. This movie was filled with so many underlying themes that it was sickening... Made me want to analyze it like a school assignment, until I realized what the hell I was thinking. Lots and lots of biblical references.

As for the matrix dying... well, all the people will be unplugged, but is there any reason for it to be taken away? What about the programs in it? Don't they get some say?

And the trainman was basically showing that "Hey, Neo isn't God everywhere; this guy took him down with 1 shot".

- - - - -
From what we've learned, it seems like you'd prefer girls dressed in ant costumes or something... -Kazuki (Regarding tl;dr)

Owner of the Power Advantage DBZ RPG
(www.poweradvantage.net)

From: High Prairie, AB, Canada | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
JohtoMaster
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posted 11-11-2003 03:49 PM      Profile for JohtoMaster   Author's Homepage   Email JohtoMaster   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by LanderZRPG:
As for the matrix dying... well, all the people will be unplugged, but is there any reason for it to be taken away? What about the programs in it? Don't they get some say?

In the Merovigian's Voice: "Why would they exist? What is their PURPOSE?"

If all of the humans are free, then the Matrix no longer has a purpose, as it was used to keep the humans enslaved and to harvest their energy. According to the Indian dude, any program without a purpose is to be destroyed. Now I am not saying that they will all 'die,' but they either need to find a new purpose for the Matrix, or the programs should download themselves into robotic entities and do some other type of work.

Of course, since some people could conceivably not want to leave the Matrix, there could be the purpose, but whatever...

- - - - -
Oh, and it's not "newbies", it's "proles". Nothing wrong with being new to the game if you're not stuck in the working classes. Hey, if we're going to be elitist, may as well go the whole hog and refer to the idiots as a lower social rank... - CatGonk at SoaG

From: Valparaiso, IN, USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
New Guy
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posted 11-11-2003 06:22 PM      Profile for New Guy   Email New Guy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Of course, since some people could conceivably not want to leave the Matrix, there could be the purpose, but whatever...

World full of sunshine, plentiful and great tasting food, high standard of hygiene, low rate of disease, long life expectancy, etc. versus a world of no sunlight, crap food, and everybody smells like shit?

Please.

- - - - -
@!!**... I forgot my chain saw!-Satan

From: Georgia | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
LanderZRPG
Got a whale of a tale to tell ya, lads!
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posted 11-12-2003 10:10 AM      Profile for LanderZRPG   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Architect also only said that all those who WISH to be freed will be; Remember what's-his-fgt from the first movie, who wanted to be plugged in? Some people will probably stay plugged in (rich/famous people of the Matrix, perhaps, since their lives are so coddled, anyway).

A friend of mine also proposed that the whole "Matrix" series is actually a roles-reversed, and the whole "Robots have the surface, humans have some tiny colony and are all going to die to the superior robots" is a "Matrix" for the "Robots", which the humans have enslaved. I.e., Humans are the oppressors, and they only made us think that humans are the zion-people so we would 'relate' to them.

He has no 'proof', save he claims that Plato's "The Cave" relates to it [huh? I fail to see how, and he tries to explain it by summarizing the story of The Cave.... which fails to explain it], and some Animatrix stuff [which I fail to see as being relevant, anyway].

So, any thoughts?

- - - - -
From what we've learned, it seems like you'd prefer girls dressed in ant costumes or something... -Kazuki (Regarding tl;dr)

Owner of the Power Advantage DBZ RPG
(www.poweradvantage.net)

From: High Prairie, AB, Canada | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
kikered
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posted 11-12-2003 12:03 PM      Profile for kikered   Email kikered   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Fucking shit. The thread isn't there anymore. [Mad]

Edit: the thread on Azure was here but the thread that it was linked to doesn't seem to exist anymore...

Edit 2: found it

[ 11-12-2003, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: kikered ]

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