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Author Topic: Regarding the origin of Pangolins
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posted 08-17-2003 01:40 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote has a beautifully viscious attack on scientific creationists on their main page about now or so. They link to a scientific creattionist website, which has a couple good points and a shit-ton of shitty ones. The best article that makes me grin is this one:

...because, unlike the rest of site, which reads like a bunch of smart people seeking logical rationalizations for beliefs that are fundamentally irrational, this one reads like a total moron wrote it.

See, it starts by saying "evolutionists start by assuming that you have matter. But who created it?" or someshit like that. Then they give the estimated amount of matter in the universe, a very large number.

Now, first of all, the *amount* of matter that appears out of nothing isn't really important. I'll accept that anything beyond, say, an orange requires something that doesn't happen every day, because I want a fucking orange right now and I don't have one. The amount of matter in the universe is 1 UU, or universe unit. We have 1 of them, we probably had 0 in the past.

The second flaw is that it had to all *come* from somewhere. Now, current theory (Einstein, big bang) holds that it *did* come from somewhere... but if you don't *know* that, then why did it all have to start somewhere? Why is a blank slate more understandable than an eternal cosmos of rocks and suns and shit? We have no basis for that assumption beyond some stuff that came around last century- so that's a logical fallacy on their part.

The third flaw is that this has something to do with evolution. While scientists in general talk about the beginning of the universe, that's usually theoretical physisicsts that are involved in that- evolution is applied to life. The point is that it's totally valid for an "evolutionist" to just take whatever the earth was like however many years ago from the *rest* of science, and explain (1) how the first thing happened (2) how we go from one thing to the next and (3) show that that's probably what happened here.

But the reason it's so great is that they start talking about "virtual particles"... and they basically go and get information out of Microsoft Encarta.

For real.

Then they try to deconstruct it.

I've heard evolutionists use "virtual particles" as an explanation of how matter can "appear" ex nihilo (out of nothing). Is this a plausible explanation? I'll analyze the evidence.

Pro-evolution Microsoft Encarta Encyclopedia 2000 tells us: "A virtual particle differs from a real particle in that a virtual particle cannot be seen by means of a particle detector, but it can be observed through its indirect effects. Empty space is full of virtual particles fleetingly 'created' out of nothing, forming a particle and antiparticle pair that immediately destroy each other."

Some evolutionists have suggested that enough virtual particles were not destroyed to create matter. However, the pro-evolution Encarta Encyclopedia tells us "...a virtual particle differs from a real particle..." The fact that "virtual particles" are not equivalent to a "real" particle is further evident by the fact that they are not detected by a particle detector, electron microscope, etc. Also, when virtual particles are "created", antiparticles are also instantly "created," therefore instantly destroying themselves.

Ok, so, you know, that must be the end of the story. Forget Stephen Hawking and smart people, if *you* can't understand it, it must not have happened.

Now, this thread isn't about evolution so much as it's about people who don't understand science. When the scientific creationists point out holes in the fossil record, they do have a point: evolution seems to go in fits and bursts instead of being smooth, like we would expect. It could be something simple, like that only under certain circumstances was the fossil record kept: maybe there's something about the earth's history that we don't really know.

This thread is also about Pangolins, of course, and how they share a whole lot of DNA with us.

From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mentar the Malady Monkey
worst username ever
Member # 1182

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posted 08-17-2003 02:22 PM      Profile for Mentar the Malady Monkey   Email Mentar the Malady Monkey   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've also heard from various places that you can create energy (including matter) if you also create equal amounts of anti-energy, and some scientists consider gravity to fulfill this purpose because it is solely attractive in nature.

The rest of this isn't anything new.

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From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Estelle Getty
Member # 2805

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posted 08-17-2003 03:59 PM      Profile for Cloud9x   Author's Homepage   Email Cloud9x   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Your posts are too long. I lose interest after the first 3-4 sentences.

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[22:51] Y2Jesus: shut up japanese peopre

From: Kanadia eh? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Farting Nudist
Member # 3408

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posted 08-17-2003 04:11 PM      Profile for Ethan     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

[ 08-17-2003, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: Ethan ]

Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
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posted 08-17-2003 07:22 PM      Profile for 137   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mentar's right. If you convert all the matter into energy (or don't, and just consider them equivalent, thanks to ol' Albert) it's going to have a positive energy value. Gravity, by being attractive and negative (by doing its damnedest to counteract the positive spacetime curvature that matter and energy create/is) and by being equal to the amount of mattergy by necessity, brings the net energy level of the universe to zero. The question would be what shifted this natural low-energy (different sense of the word energy) state of 0 into one of +1/-1 UU. It could be an artifact of the formation of the curvature of our particular Calabi-Yau space making gravity such a relatively weak force that ruptured the balance. But then we're getting into things we don't know about scientifically enough, which is a category where God can also be found.
From: Space. Like, outer space. | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
loves long time.
Member # 13

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posted 08-17-2003 10:26 PM      Profile for 10,000Lb.Snorlax   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[Trash Bear]
From: Denver | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Farting Nudist
Member # 1234

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posted 08-17-2003 10:43 PM      Profile for Automaton   Author's Homepage   Email Automaton   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
MickHale18: Do you still have Azure posting rights?
AutomatonOmega: Yes, sup
MickHale18: link this in the pangolin topic
MickHale18: because I can't do it

From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Farting Nudist
Member # 3037

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posted 08-18-2003 03:10 AM      Profile for Ikuse   Author's Homepage   Email Ikuse   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
but uh, it still looks like the monster from FF2 in the underworld...
From: In my pants. | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Suicidal Failure
Member # 3202

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posted 08-18-2003 03:26 AM      Profile for AnnieKat   Author's Homepage   Email AnnieKat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh Anthrax. Anthrax, what will I do with you?

Your unceasingly dictatorial attitude makes me burn from the inside out. When you give your orders, I cream myself. It reminds me of all those nights we’ve spent on the forums, just you and I… I’d read your posts, with hands a-tremble, watching, waiting, yearning only for your next words. When I dared to reply to your eminence, when anyone did, you shot them down like the King you are. I yearned for you, more than you could ever know, and since, my love, you are about to banish me, I thought that I should reveal my love for you… and (just to get your attention), in every single thread on the forum.

Zem doesn’t understand you- he cannot comprehend your very greatness. But I can. Ah, my love, if only you were here! You could take the whip down from the wall- you know the one- and lash me until I screamed, leaving the marks of our majestic union striping my back. Even through my tears of pain, I would know the greatest joy possible in this sad and horrific life- even as I think of all the hunger and suffering in the world, of the millions of children starving to death- I know that you are more important than any of it.

I would die for you, my Lord, just to hear a single word from your lips- to behold the perfection that is your form- to lick the floor beneath your table. Your insults are sweet music to my ears, your abuse the gentle caress of the spring rain, your anger my food and my wine. You are like the Sun- your rising and setting controls the lives of all on Earth, and we are but tiny, inconsequential specks when compared to your all-encompassing greatness. I worship you, my puissant Lord of the Flies.

Your AnnieKat


[ 08-18-2003, 04:00 AM: Message edited by: AnnieKat ]

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aתּņĩềκẢ†~ nθW |’m @ r33| ķıťŧŷ

Anthrax, will you marry me?

From: Anthrax's Love Nest | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Farting Nudist
Member # 1234

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posted 08-18-2003 08:38 AM      Profile for Automaton   Author's Homepage   Email Automaton   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Anthrax hasn't even posted in this topic wtf...?
From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged

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