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Author
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Topic: SomethingAwful has a serious complaint.
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cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19
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posted 08-04-2003 03:58 PM
http://www.somethingawful.com
If it goes away by the time you click on it, basically they are attacking the spam blockers who "blacklist" bad servers. These guys are a serious problem, because they knock out a *lot* of good with the bad.
In fact, if he ever checks the forum, K has a good story similar to the crap that happenend here.
From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000
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MK
is somewhat large.
Member # 1445
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posted 08-04-2003 08:18 PM
I'm sorry, I guess I don't understand what they're doin, someone explain it in lamen's terms plz...
Registered: Jan 2001
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137
Whiner
Member # 1465
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posted 08-04-2003 08:27 PM
I think:
Lots of people are sending junk email. Someone called spews.org is shutting down servers that send lots of junk email. Some people have sites on those servers, but do not send junk email. They are mad that they are being penalized, despite not being the offending party.
From: Space. Like, outer space. | Registered: Jan 2001
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MK
is somewhat large.
Member # 1445
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posted 08-04-2003 08:36 PM
That's lame... that's like when the teacher punishes the whole class cause one or two kids threw eggs...
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Rolken
Vulcan
Member # 7
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posted 08-04-2003 08:57 PM
They're not shutting down servers, or really doing much of anything; they make a Public Enemy list and the people who run email servers take it and tell their server to reject anything from an IP on the list. In this case, they apparently listed SA's subnet (ie 12.23.34.xx) because most of the subnet was rotten. If server numbers 111,112 and 114 are rotten, they don't wait for a deluge from 113 before listing it, because then you'd never get ahead; spammers would just switch IPs and evade it.
I dunno how bad that is because I don't know their generosity with listings. The part I really take issue with is their assumption that practically anyone listed is a spammer because they decreed it so, and being delisted requires delving into their comic bureaucracy.
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[insert sig here]
From: Provo, UT | Registered: Feb 2000
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cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19
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posted 08-04-2003 09:15 PM
Yea, it is apparently a huge issue to get delisted as a spammer- and sometimes (as was the case with Mr. K)- you don't even have to send spam at all! His story basically was:
A port that is normally disabled became enabled. This port could be used by a spammer. So, they blocked the server. Upon realizing what had happened, he disabled the port, but had to run around giving everyone handjobs before he could get turned back on.
But he tells it with much more humor.
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Subject: Ninja and Opensource
From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000
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137
Whiner
Member # 1465
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posted 08-04-2003 09:23 PM
Yeah, I don't know anything about Internet infrastructure, so I guessed.
From: Space. Like, outer space. | Registered: Jan 2001
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Twinkle
I'm feeling fat and sassy~!
Member # 1690
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posted 08-04-2003 09:27 PM
Generally the only time they add a very large netblock is when an ISP is known to be spammer-friendly. And SPEWS does not shut down servers, any moreso than a SARS warning for a particular area drops a nuke on the area. It's just a list of IP ranges, sayng that "this IP range in known to be infected with some persistent spammers; we advise blocking email from that range, unless you want a lot of spam." Sure, some innocent people's mail will get blocked (by people that use the SPEWS blacklist), but in many cases that is at least partly their fault for not being aware of their ISP's business practices before signing up with them.
For more information, look at the newsgroup <news.admin.net-abuse.email>.
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Hich loch faauto noxlattoyen.
From: Brinstar | Registered: Apr 2001
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Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
Member # 290
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posted 08-04-2003 09:46 PM
Because your ISP HAPPENS to be shared by a spammer, that means it's OK for your e-mails to be blocked? Thus possibly causing you financial damage due to your inability to provide customer support of any kind to those who use the software (as is happening with SA)?
How the fuck is that fair?
From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000
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Coxy
Hulkamania has run wild over me.
Member # 2297
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posted 08-05-2003 09:34 AM
This is blowing up into quite a big storm.
As Lowatx keeps saying, it's like arresting everyone in an apartment block because one person is a murderer, and then saying that the residents
a) should have known that murderers live in an apartment of the block
and b) share the blame since they were paying less per month for their apartments than if the criminal's apartment was vacant.
The circle-jerking in those newsgroup posts is appaling, too. All these people who run tiny mail servers who post stuff like "LOLOL YOU'VE JUST GUARANTEED SOMETHINGAWFUL.COM'S MAILSERVERS NEVER SEND EMAIL TO MY CUSTOMERS, SONNY JIM" just so that they can pretend they are important.
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I love nintendolover, but only in a strictly platonic sense.
From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2001
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Mr. K
Racist
Member # 2
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posted 08-05-2003 09:41 AM
cfalcon: A port that is normally disabled became enabled. This port could be used by a spammer. So, they blocked the server. Upon realizing what had happened, he disabled the port, but had to run around giving everyone handjobs before he could get turned back on.
Actually, I have no real complaints, except for the asshole who opened the port.
If they hadn't blacklisted my server, I wouldn't have known about the problem. And things have to be a pain in the ass to undo, so they can't be undone by scripts.
I like the system, as long as it's handled properly (ie, only insecure servers are blacklisted). If your ISP gets blacklisted then they are going to fix it or you are going to stop giving them money, which is a good thing.
From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000
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Twinkle
I'm feeling fat and sassy~!
Member # 1690
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posted 08-05-2003 02:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Coxy:
...it's like arresting everyone in an apartment block because one person is a murderer, and then saying that the residents
a) should have known that murderers live in an apartment of the block
and b) share the blame since they were paying less per month for their apartments than if the criminal's apartment was vacant.
No.
It's like me not letting people from your apartment block visit people in my apartment block (which they have no right to do anyway - it's private property) because you have been helping the repeat offenders in your apartment block evade the police. You think I'm going to let some random person from your block into my block, given that they might be one of the several serial killers that you knowingly provide a base of operations for?
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Hich loch faauto noxlattoyen.
From: Brinstar | Registered: Apr 2001
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Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
Member # 290
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posted 08-05-2003 04:18 PM
That's absolutely ridiculous. How does using a service make you at all responsible for encouraging other users of that service to do naughty things? Why should you get punished for it?
Spammers are annoying, yes. But why should somebody suffer tangible damage in the form of financial loss because some vigilante group is trying to stop them?
That is some pretty bizarre logic right there.
[ 08-05-2003, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: Psybro ]
From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000
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Mr. K
Racist
Member # 2
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posted 08-06-2003 06:26 AM
Psybro: But why should somebody suffer tangible damage in the form of financial loss because some vigilante group is trying to stop them?
Because it's the only way to stop the problem and it should only happen once. If your ISP is any good, it won't happen at all.
You have to hit companies in the wallet to make them do the right thing.
From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000
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Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
Member # 290
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posted 08-06-2003 11:04 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. K:
Because it's the only way to stop the problem and it should only happen once. If your ISP is any good, it won't happen at all.
You have to hit companies in the wallet to make them do the right thing.
I would consider that on this occasion the cure is worse than the initial problem, because the company in question refuse to remove the IPs of innocent parties and simply say 'TAKE IT UP WITH YOUR SPAMMER ISP N00B'.
The ISP isn't going to do shit, which means you have to expend time, effort and money to switch to a different server.
[ 08-06-2003, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Psybro ]
From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000
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Badcrow
Cute Fluffy Squirrel
Member # 684
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posted 08-07-2003 03:51 PM
This happend at a different forum I post at, their forum server went down but the main site stayed up. When the forum server was put back up they got a different IP and it was one that was blacklisted from a tard spammer. Complaints and threats of no money work well to fix those cases. ![[PBJ Time!]](graemlins/pbjtime.gif)
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