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Author
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Topic: File leeching rant.
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cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19
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posted 07-20-2003 03:25 AM
It's not leeching, it's linking, and it's the PURPOSE OF HTML.
THAT IS THE IDEA
THE WHOLE IDEA.
OTHEWISE IT WOULD ME "ML" OR "TEXT".
Yea, look, as near as I can tell a site hosting an image is either:
1- A big site (CNN, Yahoo)
2- A medium site (somethingawful.com, which is apparently a goddamn temple for some of you)
3- YOUR site
4- A free host
5- A pay host
Now, if the site is a big site, no one cares. If you care, you are stupid. These sites get fucking slashdotted and don't go down.
If the site is a medium site, there is a *possibility* that it matters. For instance, hitting them from slashdot or fark or a popular "blog" equivalent can hurt them. However, they are still in the web business, and the purpose that they put up and article or a picture is FOR PEOPLE TO SEE IT.
If the site is YOUR site (or your buddies, or whatever), one that you have to pay for, you have reason to complain if it gets posted on slashdot or something, because you probably put everything on the site for a narrow band of people (people that play on your server, people that visit your message board, people that share your intrest in panty-clad Japanese schoolgirls, whatever), and NOT for the rest of the interested world. In this case, a big hit serves counter to your purpose. However, you probably shouldn't care if 300 pokemon nerds hit a 68k JPG, so getting something linked off of Azure kinda sucks.
If it is a free image host, it's gonna go down anyway.
If it's a pay host, you have a point- many of them charge exorbitant rates to host tiny files. This is a legitimate complaint.
I have never seen anyone make this complaint.
IN THE CASE OF ME LINKING AN IMAGE, IT IS NOT LEECHING. IT IS LINKING. THAT IS THE POINT OF THE GODDAMN IMAGE TAG. THIS IS THE REASON THE WORLD WIDE WEB WAS INVENTED. THIS IS WHAT THE INTERNET HAS BEEN ABOUT SINCE 1993. I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE TOLD YOU CONTRARY TO THIS, THEY ARE SICK AND WRONG. DO NOT BELIEVE THEM.
If somethingawful.com minds me linking an image of theirs that results in extra site publicity, they can email me about it. The rest of you, please shut up. Your inane and constant posts are the only waste of bandwidth that is worth discussing. They might care if it was on a website with crazy traffic. None of this is occuring. I am amazed that this crazy "do-not-link" meme has accessed belief centers in smart individuals all up and down the internet, and here it is appearing in some of the smart people on Azure. Please, avoid this. It is like a harmful and wrong religion visited upon you, one that calls for the sacrifice of children or somesuch.
I want to point something out: if, instead, you were *linked you to the HTML*, which I assume is the "correct" thing to do, by this new and harmful belief set, then the following things would be true:
1- The thread would make less sense. "Click on the link, then go down to the eighth image".
2- Less people would see the picture.
3- The people that did click through would see the picture, plus about 10x the bandwidth in overhead. More, if there are other pictures or what-have-you. This "wastes" more of their bandwidth, and is less clear.
It does accomplish the goal of making it so that everything is kept "as the artist intended". That is not a design goal of HTML. If that were their goal, they would not have put it on the Internet. It would be in a magazine, perhaps. Or a safe. We have safes at work where we put things that people are not supposed to see. We do not put those things on the internet. The ability to mix and match content is not an accidental oversight mixed in to annoy people: it's the point behind information sharing.
That's the idea.
Additionally, bandwidth is embarrasingly cheap for much of this stuff. We aren't talking downloading movies or even MP3s, a form of out-of-context data handling that everyone is mysteriously ok with.
From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000
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Rolken
Vulcan
Member # 7
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posted 07-20-2003 03:37 AM
Amen. I find it ironic that while the earth is polluted, children starve, women are raped and epidemics spread, the majority of eAppeals to ethics center around bandwidth. If you're so concerned about helping others, put your effort towards a soup kitchen for chrissake. We don't need Internet champions.
From: Provo, UT | Registered: Feb 2000
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AnnieKat
Suicidal Failure
Member # 3202
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posted 07-20-2003 03:42 AM
tl:dr </irony>
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aתּņĩềκẢ†~ nθW |’m @ r33| ķıťŧŷ
Anthrax, will you marry me?
From: Anthrax's Love Nest | Registered: Jan 2003
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Thomas
Farting Nudist
Member # 3371
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posted 07-20-2003 04:03 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Rolken:
Amen. I find it ironic that while the earth is polluted, children starve, women are raped and epidemics spread, the majority of eAppeals to ethics center around bandwidth. If you're so concerned about helping others, put your effort towards a soup kitchen for chrissake. We don't need Internet champions.
Seems you're doing your part by posting about it in a forum. Keep up the work.
Registered: May 2003
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Pornbot
I AM A GAY FAGGOT GAY
Member # 1321
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posted 07-20-2003 04:06 AM
if (pornbot==QUEER)
{
cfalon_edit(THIS.post);
}
edit: whatever clownshoes, if you wanna debate about leeching try taking it up with Rich Kyanka, he'd run circles around your ass. You can't even debate something that's fundamentally wrong.
[ 07-20-2003, 04:23 AM: Message edited by: Pornbot ]
From: Auschwitz | Registered: Dec 2000
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cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19
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posted 07-20-2003 04:49 AM
Ok, I'm pretty sure I can debate this with anyone, because it isn't wrong. I mean, I can't justify it in all cases, just like I can't say that it's always right to spit on the ground. Someone's foot could be there. But the vast majority of the time, linking is absurdly good.
I also have no idea who this man is that you are talking about. Is he the false prophet that is polluting your minds?
But, if you *know* that it's wrong, why don't you give a few guidelines as to why? Cause I'm really interested how an extra 300-1000 hits are going to destroy the fucking internet. I mean, these are INDUSTRIAL servers we're discussing here. Think a mere 50 megs of bandwidth over several days would matter? That's assuming 1000 people click on a 50k picture. I've been online for a couple hours, and my peer-to-peer has uploaded 36 megs. Now granted, that's just me, and somehow the rules are different for non-servers, but really, each person who "leeches" is "stealing" a small fraction of the total cost one would pay had they gone to the site.
The only *possible* thing that could come up with next is advertising. You could maybe post a business plan that shows like, you gaining X dollars each time your page loads, and losing Y dollars to bandwidth, and show X>Y (or X close to Y, but maybe a little less), and then remote linking fucks that up. I don't buy that logic. The internet did not make that covenant with you. You read into it, and began to feel entitled. And again, we are not speaking of large blogs or anything: we are speaking of Azure Heights. What if I email you a link to a JPG? Same thing, really. "Leeching"?
How about WebWasher, and other programs I constantly use to filter out noise? Disapprove of them too? Some people actually do, which means that they logically want ads to load on their machines and every elses. But they, personally, are just as sick of the ads as me. And when I watch TV, think I watch the ads? The logic that tells me I should think someone else's thoughts, the logic that lets them have a toehold into my brain, is sick logic indeed. But this is a debate for a different day, perhaps.
You are throwing the fucking baby out with the bathwater. ALL LINKING CANNOT BE BAD.
But really, I'll go toe-to-toe with anyone on this. My claims are moderate, if you read them, while yours are extreme. Right away, you're sounding about as wrong as 3=4.
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Subject: Ninja and Opensource
From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000
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Pornbot
I AM A GAY FAGGOT GAY
Member # 1321
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posted 07-20-2003 04:57 AM
Rich Kyanka is your G-d and you will bow to H-m.
I didn't say anything was wrong with linking, however image leeching directly is. It's just like stealing, it doesn't matter if it's only like one picture, if enough people linked one guys picture on his cheap hosting you would fuck his shit up. Some hosting users are really anal about this shit.
From: Auschwitz | Registered: Dec 2000
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cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19
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posted 07-20-2003 05:13 AM
Rich Kyanka is your G-d and you will bow to H-m.
So then, he's the false prophet devoted to destroying all that is good on the internet. Duly noted or something.
I didn't say anything was wrong with linking, however image leeching directly is.
And that's because...
It's just like stealing,
Ok, I won't shout. Just explain the horrible thought that let you make this connection, and I will try and find the reason why it is wrong. No promises, if it's too cleverly constructed of a lie.
I will say this: if I leave candy out for halloween with a "take one" sign, and you take three because you have two friends who are across the street and a sister that got scared by the ghost in the yard, you aren't acting against the idea, and you aren't stealing. If you grab three just for yourself, things are still ok. When you grab half the bucket or the whole thing, that's when you have pushed things too far.
it doesn't matter if it's only like one picture, if enough people linked one guys picture on his cheap hosting you would fuck his shit up.
If enough people drove on the road in front of my apartment, it would be unavigable.
If enough people stole straws and napkins from McDonalds, they couldn't leave them out.
If enough people took shits in a public restroom, stuff would break.
Hey, that's a good one. How about public restrooms? It cost a TON more money to run the water and pay the janitor, and yet every restaurant has them. Why isn't there a cry of "water leeching"? I mean, that's a real expense.
This could go on forever. The "if everyone does it" arguement simply DOES NOT APPLY, especially because I'm willing to grant that in some cases, remote linking can be real bad. I'm just saying I haven't seen anyone ever bitch about one of those cases. It's like you were all taught this stupid fact in school, and you have never thought about it yourself. It was presented in such a witty fashion, so sexy and dashing, that it made sense to you. I believe that bamboozlement has gone on.
Some hosting users are really anal about this shit.
Yea, some people beat their wives. Doesn't make it a good thing, just a thing people do.
I think everyone who has every complained about linking on Azure is applying Boolean Judgement, and is not thinking for themselves. This ain't no slashdot.
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Subject: Ninja and Opensource
From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000
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Brayze
Farting Nudist
Member # 1286
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posted 07-20-2003 06:15 AM
Rich Kyanka, aka Lowtax, webmaster of Something Awful.
He has had a problem with leeching ever since his site became really popular and he started having to shell out for bandwidth costs. I seem to remember him getting fucked by UGO like about 10 other websites, but I'm not 100% sure.
Anyway, it's kinda funny that he be so against stealing when there was that whole flap about Henson Co. and the altering of copywritten muppet images and whatnot. Too bad he pulled the images down, it would have been the best court session ever.
"And here we have exhibit B. It depicts Henson Company character 'Miss Piggy' in a compromising position, bent over exposing a gaping anus, in parody of exhibit C, an iconic internet image."
Jury: "Ewwww."
Rich Kyanka: "Uh.... um."
"I would like to remind the court that the website in question runs banner ads, and collects revenue for page hits. Therefore, not only were these images potentially damaging to the Henson Company's character line, the website was actually profiting from people viewing them."
Rick Kyanka: "Um. Uh."
.
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Judge: "Guilty."
It was almost as funny as when Seanbaby got a visit from the feds. Tee-hee!
From: Lunar Palace ver. 3.1 | Registered: Dec 2000
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Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
Member # 290
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posted 07-20-2003 08:49 AM
Who the fuck has been whining about leeching anyway? I don't seem to recall it being a huge enough problem to create all this stuff that I feel I have to read in case I have an opinion on it but don't want to because it's too long.
quote:
Originally posted by cfalcon:
Hey, that's a good one. How about public restrooms? It cost a TON more money to run the water and pay the janitor, and yet every restaurant has them. Why isn't there a cry of "water leeching"? I mean, that's a real expense.
The difference is that the bathroom is paid for by the people who buy food at the restaurant. If I have paid hosting and some guy sticks an image from it up on Slashdot I'm losing money without getting ANYTHING back.
Leeching images on a forum this small doesn't really matter in the big picture, but I think the justification behind it is pretty much a 'slippery slope' argument. Bearing in mind how quickly popular links can get exchanged, I think that's fair.
[ 07-20-2003, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: Psybro ]
From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000
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Ikuse
Farting Nudist
Member # 3037
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posted 07-20-2003 09:55 AM
I really don't understand all this obsession with SA.
I mean, sure it's funny, but even if you're sitting in front of the computer all day you're bound to have a better time hanging out with your friends then reading the SA forums. I know I do. A lot of it(the stuff me and my friends do) is funnier, too.
Plus you can't image leech from real life, so that's also a bonus.
From: In my pants. | Registered: Aug 2002
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Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
Member # 290
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posted 07-20-2003 02:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ikuse:
I really don't understand all this obsession with SA.
I mean, sure it's funny, but even if you're sitting in front of the computer all day you're bound to have a better time hanging out with your friends then reading the SA forums. I know I do. A lot of it(the stuff me and my friends do) is funnier, too.
Plus you can't image leech from real life, so that's also a bonus.
well that was completely irrelevant
[ 07-20-2003, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: Psybro ]
From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000
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cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19
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posted 07-20-2003 03:06 PM
If I have paid hosting and some guy sticks an image from it up on Slashdot I'm losing money without getting ANYTHING back.
Ok, since I've only agreed with this point about five times, I'm not going to say much more. But no one here has EVER EVER bitched about that. They bitch about someone linking to a picture on somethingawful.com or some other website that exists solely to dole out said images and related text. An imagehost YOU pay for, your intention was probably different, as I mentioned.
The difference is that the bathroom is paid for by the people who buy food at the restaurant.
And the hosting is paid for by the people who patronize the site. But I can walk into a gas station and use the toilet. I can walk into a restaurant and use the bathroom. I've been asked not to, that it's for customers only. I ignore such whining, and make sure to use their facilities whenever nearby and not purchase their wares. They have a point when they are being systematically used as someone elses bathroom (like, I have a big concert every week and not enough bathrooms, so the nearby restaurants have to pick up the slack: but even then they don't mind, because someone in their restaurant is MUCH more likely to buy food from them then someone who is not, just like if I post a picture that says "somethingawful.com" on it, you are much more likely to go visit there), but that's the equivalent of slashdot. Azure Heights is the equivalent of my friends and I driving up in an SUV and unloading five dudes to urinate. We aren't paying, but we are peeing. You deal. Your customers, the ones paying you right now? Many won't, in fact, pee on your premises. They will pee elsewhere. As long as the distribution is even *CLOSE* to fair, you have no room to bitch.
eeching images on a forum this small doesn't really matter in the big picture, but I think the justification behind it is pretty much a 'slippery slope' argument.
Not really. While yes, it's hard to do a cutoff, whereever one is, it wouldn't be HERE. I think a lot of people go on slashdot and see some guy flipping out about a bunch of people who actually ARE abusing the system, and then run around like religious fanatics seeing abuse everywhere.
Microbes cause diseases. It's a "slippery slope" as to what microbes should continue to live- after all, the friendly microbes in your gut share genetic information with hostile microbes, telling THEM how to live in your gut. Do you end them all, railing agaist microbes wherever you see them? No, of course not.
This is not a slippery slope. If I saw someone bitching at a medium sized site, then yea, perhaps I could see your statement... but that isn't what's going on. The world is FULL of "slippery slopes", and I addressed this with the bathroom thing and the "if everyone" chain of ideas.
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Subject: Ninja and Opensource
From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000
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cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19
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posted 07-20-2003 03:45 PM
Ok, look. If you can't have argue without calling everyone a shitbrick and wishing they would go kill themselves, or calling everyone a stupid sack of shit, then you aren't argueing, you are namecalling. This doesn't bode well for whatever point you are argueing, because this is no longer the third grade.
From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000
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Anthrax
Ultimate Authoritative Power in the Universe
Member # 335
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posted 07-20-2003 04:11 PM
shut up
From: Somebody put shit in my pants! | Registered: Apr 2000
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cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19
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posted 07-20-2003 04:53 PM
Dude, you shut up. In two words you've said less worth than everyone else in the thread combined.
If you have something to add, by all means, add it. I know you're intelligent, and I won't put up with this "hey cool lowercase badass" attitude in a serious topic. And in general, if you don't want to see me go off on morons, don't click on a thread with "rant" in the title.
From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000
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cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19
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posted 07-20-2003 05:00 PM
Well... not that pornbot is a moron, exactly, he just has made a bunch of moronic posts that are basically just "you are a stupid idiot please die" (I think I edited or deleted all of them, while leaving the ones where he actually has something to say).
From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000
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Pornbot
I AM A GAY FAGGOT GAY
Member # 1321
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posted 07-20-2003 05:02 PM
I won't debate this shit because I know I'm right. You seem to have this attitude 'oh well what the guys who pay for hosting don't know won't hurt them' and turn everything into 'let me compare a point of argument to two thousand other things like toilets that are in no way related' leeching is bad, argument over, close thread.
[ 07-20-2003, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Pornbot ]
From: Auschwitz | Registered: Dec 2000
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Thomas
Farting Nudist
Member # 3371
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posted 07-20-2003 05:20 PM
So, its okay to steal from Best Buy or Target because they are a major corporation and my minor theft will have no effect on them at all?
Registered: May 2003
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Rolken
Vulcan
Member # 7
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posted 07-20-2003 05:22 PM
You seem to have this attitude "I'll ignore the points cfalcon is making and attack the demonized sound-bite version of what he's saying."
And like I said before, there're far more important problems to devote energy to combating. The penny or two they've lost from Azure Heights is insignificant compared to, say, the coal being burned to run your computer right now. If everybody had a computer the entire world would be under a lot more strain than Lowtax is right now. So why the priority?
Thomas: Seems you're doing your part by posting about it in a forum. Keep up the work.
I said if you're going to be righteous, then be righteous about something with a point. Not let's all stop what we're doing and join the Peace Corps. There's a difference. Your post'd be more sensical if you'd at least attack me for being righteously Mormon or something, unless you hold the position that irrational beliefs are off limits.
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[insert sig here]
From: Provo, UT | Registered: Feb 2000
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Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
Member # 290
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posted 07-20-2003 05:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cfalcon:
Ok, look. If you can't have argue without calling everyone a shitbrick and wishing they would go kill themselves, or calling everyone a stupid sack of shit, then you aren't argueing, you are namecalling. This doesn't bode well for whatever point you are argueing, because this is no longer the third grade.
I reserve the right to counter manure with manure. If I read a post that insults my intelligence, I insult the person who posted it as a consequence of that.
And it's not for you alone to decide whether this is a 'serious debate', if you dislike the response you're getting so badly then just delete the thread.
[ 07-20-2003, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: Psybro ]
From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000
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Anthrax
Ultimate Authoritative Power in the Universe
Member # 335
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posted 07-20-2003 05:23 PM
You're talking a lot about something nobody wants to talk about.
From: Somebody put shit in my pants! | Registered: Apr 2000
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Rolken
Vulcan
Member # 7
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posted 07-20-2003 05:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas:
So, its okay to steal from Best Buy or Target because they are a major corporation and my minor theft will have no effect on them at all?
If one person can successfully steal, that in and of itself will cause others to steal because there is a personal gain involved. That same gain does not apply in linking. Your analogy is flawed.
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[insert sig here]
From: Provo, UT | Registered: Feb 2000
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Wintermute
My custom title sucks.
Member # 5
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posted 07-20-2003 05:28 PM
You're talking a lot about something nobody wants to talk about.
And they keep clicking on the thread in order to not talk about it.
[ 07-20-2003, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: Wintermute ]
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba | Registered: Feb 2000
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Anthrax
Ultimate Authoritative Power in the Universe
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posted 07-20-2003 05:30 PM
I know, it's stupid.
From: Somebody put shit in my pants! | Registered: Apr 2000
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Brayze
Farting Nudist
Member # 1286
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posted 07-20-2003 05:34 PM
Following are some general questions directed at everybody. Do you have any MP3s? Have you ever shared porn files from pay sites? Password hacks? Cracked or exploited software (like, say photoshop)? Non public domain ROMs? Pirated games? Burned CDs which you do not own? HEY STEALING STEALING STEALER
I really dislike it when people only consider a thing to be 'wrong' if it somehow effects their personal well-being. It is a problem which can only be solved by repeated applications of clawhammers to eyesockets.
Anyway, I'm not defending bandwidth leeching (it ranks up there with "dirty spics" on the list of things I don't care about), it's just I feel justified in calling people kitten-raping battle-bitches if they are big hypocrites. Also because I am antagonistic for no good reason.
From: Lunar Palace ver. 3.1 | Registered: Dec 2000
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Rolken
Vulcan
Member # 7
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posted 07-20-2003 05:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Psybro:
I reserve the right to counter manure with manure. If I read a post that insults my intelligence, I insult the person who posted it as a consequence of that.
cfalcon posted long, detailed and logical reasons why your position is idiotic. You just proclaimed his position is idiotic. Which only proves his zealotry point.
And it's not for you alone to decide whether this is a 'serious debate', if you dislike the response you're getting so badly then just delete the thread.
What, he's supposed to let 'serious debate' be swamped by "you suck" replies? That's called mobocracy. I don't see how it is in any way preferable.
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[insert sig here]
From: Provo, UT | Registered: Feb 2000
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Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
Member # 290
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posted 07-20-2003 05:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Rolken:
quote:
Originally posted by Psybro:
I reserve the right to counter manure with manure. If I read a post that insults my intelligence, I insult the person who posted it as a consequence of that.
cfalcon posted long, detailed and logical reasons why your position is idiotic. You just proclaimed his position is idiotic. Which only proves his zealotry point.
I was referring to Ikuse's post, not cfalcon's. falcon's seem perfectly acceptable and well thought out, even if I honestly have no idea what he's on about.
From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000
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Rolken
Vulcan
Member # 7
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posted 07-20-2003 05:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Brayze:
Cracked or exploited software (like, say photoshop)?
Heh, that's a good point. Nobody on SA paid for Photoshop, yet the vast majority of pics horribly leeched from it were Photoshopped.
How is the money lost by Lowtax for the bandwidth any worse than the money lost by Adobe for the pic itself? No doubt Adobe loses sums that're orders of magnitude greater than what Lowtax loses.
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[insert sig here]
From: Provo, UT | Registered: Feb 2000
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Ikuse
Farting Nudist
Member # 3037
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posted 07-20-2003 06:39 PM
Yeah, I've got no qualms about bandwidth leeching, although I do tend to put pics up on my geocities webspace before I post any pics.
And as for the SA post, maybe you don't follow my train of thought but it very much wasn't rubbish so you deserved to get your post edited. It seemed relevant(somewhat) and I didn't want to make a new topic so there you go.
From: In my pants. | Registered: Aug 2002
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Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
Member # 290
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posted 07-20-2003 06:50 PM
If this topic had been about trolling it would've been relevant, yeah.
From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000
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Wintermute
My custom title sucks.
Member # 5
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posted 07-20-2003 06:53 PM
If the meme really originates (at least primarily) with Kyanka, fuck did he do a good job on it. It shows that you can basically manufacture morality, just by punishing people at least some of the time when they do X. The moral is much more durable and effective if you can get other people to also look out for X and punish it, which is what's been done so well here.
The problem is when someone gets sick of the punishment (whether or not it's directed at them) and says, hey waitaminute, fuck you. Why should I have to deal with this? They try to manufacture a counter-meme - each time that someone punishes X, they'll punish the punisher. It's at this point, which may actually arrive immediately (following the first punishment) that an examination of the "objective" wrongness of X might ensue.
Suppose, and I don't pretend to any knowledge on the matter - but suppose Kyanka gets his bandwidth bill and gets a little hot about it. The next time some dweeb image leeches, Kyanka rips him a goatse. The kid tries to defend himself, but Kyanka is way smarter, meaner, and wittier. Well, the next time some dweeb leeches, you can bet your ass everyone will jump all over him, whether or not they come close to Kyanka's repertoire of argumentation. Once things are flowing in that direction, it would take a lot of skilled effort to stem the tide, and it might very well be that no amount of skilled effort will do the trick - the person arguing will simply be written off as a gay faggot gay and ignored/banned as a troll.
I sympathize with birdman's posts to the extent that I get the feeling that some approximate form of this has happened with image leeching. You can tell that the SA environment is different from other places in (at least) this respect, because when SA vets get all snarly about leeching at other sites, they seem not to notice that it results in furrowed brows. Ppl are like, "um, wow them's some foul words considering the act seems like something any self-respecting teenager wouldn't give a shit about if his dad was lecturing him. who are you the RIAA or the PTA or something?" The problem is that although I have seen ppl bitch about leeching, I cannot remember the details of a single instance. I want to say that I think the leech-punishers are overgeneralizing and punishing it under dumb circumstances, because it seems to me like this happens, but I can't back that up at all. Oh well.
But I think it was a bad idea to combine a critical evaluation of the wrongness of leeching with an extended rant. A better way to draw it out would be to just say, "hey, I'm curious - why's it wrong to image link, exactly?" Then you can get into stuff like, "oh well then it seems like it's only wrong to leech under certain specific conditions, right?" and see where it ends up. (I suppose pb would still probably have responded with fuck you clownshoes, its self-evident and my dad is cooler than your dad. But maybe someone else would have given it a crack.)
[ 07-20-2003, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: Wintermute ]
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba | Registered: Feb 2000
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Ikuse
Farting Nudist
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posted 07-20-2003 07:03 PM
That wasn't a trolling attempt, it is my opinion.
From: In my pants. | Registered: Aug 2002
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Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
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posted 07-20-2003 07:29 PM
Your opinion that spending time on the Something Awful forums is unproductive, which has little to do with the topic at hand.
Thank you.
From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000
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Ikuse
Farting Nudist
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posted 07-20-2003 08:42 PM
k that's still not trolling
From: In my pants. | Registered: Aug 2002
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Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
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posted 07-20-2003 09:03 PM
From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000
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Rolken
Vulcan
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posted 07-20-2003 11:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cfalcon:
OTHERWISE IT WOULD BE "ML" OR "TEXT".
"TML"?
From: Provo, UT | Registered: Feb 2000
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Mr.E
Farting Nudist
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posted 07-21-2003 01:08 AM
It would've been funnier if you just tagged it from wherever you first found it considering the circumstances, Psybro.
- - - - -
MickHale18: nevermind, I'll pull out for a second
MickHale18: *pulls out finger*
From: Munchkin Land, Oz | Registered: Jul 2000
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Mentar the Malady Monkey
worst username ever
Member # 1182
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posted 07-21-2003 05:08 AM
I think some of cfalcon's points are completely valid. At the same time, I fail to see what would be so difficult about simply uploading the image in question to your own webspace and remote linking to that instead.
Also, the Photoshop spiel (as well as pirated software, etc.) is completely irrelevant. That's in the vein of saying "judges have no right to dole out the death penalty because they, too, are sinners". "We aren't completely innocent" does not imply "so let's not even bother trying to be fair or better this world."
[ 07-21-2003, 05:08 AM: Message edited by: Mentar the Malady Monkey ]
- - - - -
WHAT.
From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000
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Brayze
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posted 07-21-2003 06:18 AM
What? Pirating things is a lot more serious in terms of financial damage than bandwidth leeching. Your judge comparison is the Picasso of analogies.
And 'bettering the world'? What, are you on some kind of crusade? Because if you're riding on an angel's wings on some kind of anti-theft crusade, isn't it a good idea NOT TO STEAL SHIT AND AVOID BEING A GIANT FUCKING HYPOCRITE? It'd take a lot of paint chips before I start supporting hypocrisy, regardless of how you somehow manage to rationalize it using trite and inappropriate analogies. Here's a better and more accurate analogy for you. "Damn I hate thieves, I'm calling the police," said the house burglar who was just mugged. This doesn't mean that calling the police is BAD in and of itself, but maybe turn the eye inward as well? But nobody likes to do that for some reason.
It's like you missed the entire point, dude.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be softly crying into my pillow here listening to the Cure and wondering why nobody understands me.
Maybe some light free verse later, yo.
From: Lunar Palace ver. 3.1 | Registered: Dec 2000
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Ikuse
Farting Nudist
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posted 07-21-2003 06:46 AM
It'd take a lot of paint chips before I start supporting hypocrisy
That's because today's SuperPaints aren't made to include lead in 'em.
From: In my pants. | Registered: Aug 2002
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Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
Member # 290
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posted 07-21-2003 07:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Mr.E:
It would've been funnier if you just tagged it from wherever you first found it considering the circumstances, Psybro.
I uploaded it to my own hosting. Which means I'm not using a service they paid for to my own advantage. Which is only courteous.
From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000
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MK
is somewhat large.
Member # 1445
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posted 07-21-2003 07:51 PM
Reread what I had to say last time we ranted over this...
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Dweedle
My hands and feet are mangos
Member # 1209
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posted 07-21-2003 08:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Brayze:
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be softly crying into my pillow here listening to the Cure and wondering why nobody understands me.
Well this should cheer you up for sure
You see I've got your old ID
And you're all dressed up like the Cure
Ya never rest
Fighting the battle of who could care less
Unearned unhappiness
You're my hero, I confess
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the only way to get pass this will be to commit suicune
From: second of all, Quagmire's not really a bad guy! | Registered: Nov 2000
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Thomas
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posted 07-21-2003 08:23 PM
fuck you clownshoes
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Charmeleon42
Date Rapist
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posted 07-21-2003 08:52 PM
Also, most stealing analogies dont work, because the people who look at those pictures from the hosters site (not neccessarily SA, stop thinking its the only site ever people use to post images from) are doing it free of charge to themselves. EDIT: That is to say, if I go to some guys site, I'm not paying anything to see his pictures... you cant steal that which is free to begin with.
It's more like the Halloween candy analogy, if anything.
-In agreeance with cfalcon-
[ 07-21-2003, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: Charmeleon42 ]
From: Mountain Dew Land | Registered: Oct 2000
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Mentar the Malady Monkey
worst username ever
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posted 07-22-2003 12:44 AM
No one has yet addressed the issue of "hay guys why don't you just upload it to your own webspace".
- - - - -
WHAT.
From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000
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Rolken
Vulcan
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posted 07-22-2003 12:51 AM
I think the point is, why bother?
From: Provo, UT | Registered: Feb 2000
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Thomas
Farting Nudist
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posted 07-22-2003 01:37 AM
this thread is now about shoes
i own a pair of adidas and vans
altogether they cost me 60 bux
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Ikuse
Farting Nudist
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posted 07-22-2003 01:41 AM
Lugz, Airwalks, and some other shoe I don't know the name of. $70.
From: In my pants. | Registered: Aug 2002
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