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Author Topic: Matrix Reloaded Discussion thread of Love
Ikuse
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posted 05-16-2003 09:41 PM      Profile for Ikuse   Author's Homepage   Email Ikuse   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Possible spoilers ahead. Don't be a dumbass and then complain if you see something you don't want to yet.




























Best movie ever. Ever.

Except the ten minute rave/orgy thing. What the hell was that.

I did particularly like the way the story enmeshes itself with the first matrix, too. Like the ending scene, for example, with the program who made the matrix, and the room with the screens in it? That's in the first movie, when Mr. Anderson is in the white room with A. Smith and the gestapo crap.

And of course, the fight scenes kicked ass. I mean, Neo vs. ~30 A. Smiths? Fucking awesome choreography and shit. Also, I can't help but be reminded of LotR when all the A. Smiths got thrown out of the dogpile.

The very beginning of LotR, where the armies of good vs. Sauron's army, and Sauron went in, and started bashing people with his huge hammer? That's what it reminded me of.

Discuss.

[ 05-19-2003, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: Anthrax ]

From: In my pants. | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Pornbot
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posted 05-16-2003 10:19 PM      Profile for Pornbot   Author's Homepage   Email Pornbot   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I liked the part when he punched the guys;
From: Auschwitz | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged
The Muffin King
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posted 05-16-2003 11:16 PM      Profile for The Muffin King   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It was good, it was great. Infact, it made me masturbate.
From: Maryland | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dark_Herakurosu
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posted 05-17-2003 01:00 AM      Profile for Dark_Herakurosu   Author's Homepage   Email Dark_Herakurosu   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
DEFINITE SPOILERS AHEAD

Today I used the word 'orgasmic' for the first time. I happened to be describing the effects on those ghost-agents, the Twins. 00ber pwn-ness right through the wall, if ya know what I mean. They needed more screentime though. A friend of mine was tripping on acid at the time (I, meanwhile, knew what to expect; mpegs are your friend), and he about shit his pants. It was that freaky. Anyway, I was pissed that the Smith-virus replica fight scene looked like it came from a PS2. They spent big bucks to make this film, everything else looks highly impressive, and then the 'big fight scene' looks like they used claymation. Merf. I lingered in my car about 20 mins afterward, and finally figured the whole thing out. It's all a matrix. Zion, the so-called war, all a bigger matrix over a smaller one. Neo, meanwhile, is somehow outside this matrix as well. This explains a lot of things. The oracle's speech on programs gone awry, for one. Another, Smith-virus's transferrence into the 'real' world. Finally, the most defining one: Neo's powers. Not only in the matrix, but also in the 'real world', the big matrix. Remember the sentinels. Also, who wouldn't like a huge mass orgy in an underground cave?

Favorite scene: Hugh Jass explosion at the end. Right before he saves Lois Lane (corny and cliche'd, but still lots of fire = lots of funnage)

Favorite fight: Morpheus vs the Twins/Neo + Morpheus vs Smith-virus. The Twins pwn so much they need a sequel of their own. But the hallway (Smith-virus) fight was not only great, it was funny watching the Keymaker run like a mouse.

Favorite phrase: "Oh God..." "Smith will do."

- - - - -
There is more money being spent on breast implants and Viagra today than on Alzheimer's research. This means that by 2040, there should be a large elderly population with perky boobs, huge erections, and absolutely no recollection of what to do with them.

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The Muffin King
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posted 05-17-2003 01:22 AM      Profile for The Muffin King   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I THINK SPOILERS OR SOME SHIAT

Apparently the "Matrix within a Matrix" theory is pretty popular, and it makes sense. It just seems to obvious and cheesy though. I'd expect more form the Wachowski's than something everyone is able to pick out really quickly.

And both the twins and Persephone (Persephone = unwilling wife of Hades in greek mythology) hav bigger roles in Revolutions.

From: Maryland | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pornbot
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posted 05-17-2003 01:49 AM      Profile for Pornbot   Author's Homepage   Email Pornbot   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Muffin King:
I THINK SPOILERS OR SOME SHIAT

Apparently the "Matrix within a Matrix" theory is pretty popular, and it makes sense. It just seems to obvious and cheesy though. I'd expect more form the Wachowski's than something everyone is able to pick out really quickly.

And both the twins and Persephone (Persephone = unwilling wife of Hades in greek mythology) hav bigger roles in Revolutions.

I kinda figured he used powers out of the matrix because he truly is 'the one' and not a fake 'the one' like the other ones...that's my guess, but I'm pretty sure I'm horribly wrong...how the hell would having a matrix in another matrix make any logical sense?
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Mr.E
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posted 05-17-2003 02:20 AM      Profile for Mr.E     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, for one, it would sure damn fool everyone who thinks they're outside THE matrix, when they are actually still in A matrix, just a more broad one.

Or I could just counter by asking you how having the original matrix in the first place makes any more sense.

- - - - -
MickHale18: nevermind, I'll pull out for a second
MickHale18: *pulls out finger*

From: Munchkin Land, Oz | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
PikaCharma
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posted 05-17-2003 02:38 AM      Profile for PikaCharma   Author's Homepage   Email PikaCharma   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Debbi Does Indiana Jones And The Crouching Clonewars Hidden Matrix Of Doom. Good movie. Unfortunately, I was one of the only chicks in the theater who hadn't been dragged by a boyfriend ((dammit, why don't more chicks appreciate movies like this?? I'm ashamed of my gender sometimes)), but the place was packed. The movie wasn't quite what I was expecting, but I certainly have no complaints. Especially not about those fight scenes. ::drools:: Normally I'm not too big on special effects fests, but DAMN. This movie just goes to prove there's an artful way of doing everything.

I was, however, slightly disappointed in the trailer after the movie. I heard a rumor there was a Matrix 3 preview after the credits, so I sat through the LONGEST fucking credits sequence ever. The preview was there...but it was obscenely short, and revealed absolutely nothing. Pah. But evidently Matrix 3 is due out later this year, so at least they have the common decency not to make us wait three more years for the next sequel.

- - - - -
Pikacharma's Bottomless Pit -- Vote 4 Mike, see a dead Togepi, and take the Pokemon Purity test!

"There's no such thing as a soul. It's just something made up to scare us kids, like the boogieman or Michael Jackson." -- Bart Simpson

From: Never Land | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 05-17-2003 02:53 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
<MAJOR SPOILERS>

I'm serious about the spoilers.

The fight scenes were great, but I kind of expected them to be. The orgy thing was to give us an idea of New Zion society (which ends up being an eclectic mix of 20-21st century places and far future, which would make sense for a society derived from equal parts of each). A lot of brown skinned people with a few people who are distinctly one race, for instance, is something that makes total sense here (as opposed to Star Trek, where my biggest gripe with the human cast is that they have no racism and interracial couples are perfectly normal, yet everyone is still divided into mixed races. That's bullshit: in such a society, people would look *much* more similar. I mean, think about people of different races. Aren't they *different* in they way they look at things, on some levels? In this society *that isn't the case*. )

Oh, in the Matrix's world you would still have some distinctly one raced people: everyone who got pulled out of sim-20th century would obey our racial distribution laws.

Ok, here's the problem: because the movie is "to be concluded" we run into problems. Like, when Neo shocks out the Sentinels using what seems to be some kind of mental shockwave. That's problematic, because it means one of:

(1) He really does have some kind of magic power, because he can do impossible things *in the real world*.

(2) They are still in the matrix. Another layer or something.

I wouldn't hate option 1, as long as they play it right. Option 2 would piss me off, because yes, we get it, you can never know what's real. Great. That's no excuse to nest realities, but these directors are just the right kind of jerries to do that and think they're the smartest men alive.

Now, the part where we get to hear about what the matrix is also doesn't jive totally.

"We've already destroyed New Zion six times."

What? Have you now? Can't be the same Zion, clearly, but the idea that the computers set up free humans as a method of dealing with the "one" (which they claim comes along in each Matrix) seems pretty absurd.

Unless I missed something, they have some splainin to do.

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SDShamshel
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posted 05-17-2003 03:13 AM      Profile for SDShamshel   Email SDShamshel   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My friend pointed out that maybe Neo DIDN'T use any sort of power, as there was a ship right behind them and maybe they took out those machines.

-Plot was there. Okay.
-Fight scenes were good, except that in the first Agent Smiths fight scene, you could TELL when they shifted from real life to cg back to real life. It was very good cg, and very realistic, but putting it in between two real life scenes just made me notice its flaws. A bit distracting, but good overall.

I think the trailer is more packed with info than Pikacharma is giving it credit for. There were a lot of hints. For example, why is only one Agent Smith fighting Neo, when clearly there are many, and they're just standing around? This must mean that only the first and original Agent Smith wants to fight Neo, and that Smith has "evolved" further to the point that his pride has "overwhelmed" him. After all, why would he go from trying to send hundreds of guys to pound Neo's ass in, to just trying to go one on one?

Also, here's my predictions for Matrix Revolutions: Agent Smith will be responsible for destroying the Matrix.

[ 05-17-2003, 03:16 AM: Message edited by: SDShamshel ]

From: Tokyo-3 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Anthrax
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posted 05-17-2003 03:59 AM      Profile for Anthrax   Author's Homepage   Email Anthrax   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If they do that "matrix in a matrix" shit I am going to blow up the Earth.

I understood the significance of the whole rave scene, but then it went on for another nine minutes and thirty seconds. OK, they're different from the machines cause they like to get down, let's move on.

The rogue programs are the best characters in the whole thing. The Merovingian, Agent Smith, the Twins, Persephone, the Oracle, the Keymaker, all of them are 100x more interesting than wacky superman i know kung fu Neo. Agent Smith especially.

And yeah, there was a trailer for Revolutions at the end of the credits, I downloaded it when I got home, the credits are like 20 minutes long or something.

Here is a screenshot of happy Agent Smith from the trailer:


From: Somebody put shit in my pants! | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 05-17-2003 03:59 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My friend pointed out that maybe Neo DIDN'T use any sort of power, as there was a ship right behind them and maybe they took out those machines.

Ok, see, that would make sense, except that it didn't happen. I mean, do you see them telling us that in the third movie?

(1) They had a chance to tell us that *this* movie.
(2) Neo did his "hold up his hand" thing.
(3) Neo could sense them.
(4) Neo fell over afterword, overcome.

So we can rule out a friendly EMP blast, or something besides Neo blasting the robots with his brain.

Which brings us back to our two possibilities, neither totally savory.

- - - - -
Subject: Ninja and Opensource

From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 05-17-2003 04:08 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My favorite line in the movie was Agent Smith:

"Me too."

That was so fucking priceless.

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PikaCharma
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posted 05-17-2003 04:11 AM      Profile for PikaCharma   Author's Homepage   Email PikaCharma   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It was the previously mentioned "jerries" that I was reluctant to give the credit to. They mess with our heads enough in the actual movies. I just didn't think they'd give us anything legit in a trailer that wasn't a complete and total mindfuck. It wasn't that there was nothing in the trailer that could possibly be analyzed. It was more along the lines of there was nothing in the trailer that would help ease the confusion rather than contribute to it. [Embarrassed]

However, I have to say, I was also rather perplexed by Neo's psych-zapping the sentinels. First thought that popped into my head was "holy shit, Zion is just more Matrix." Granted, the possibility of Neo simply having real psychic\telekenetic gifts is a legit possibility, and I hope to hell that's what it is. ((I don't think it was the ship behind Neo though...the ship didn't seem to attack the sentinels, and Neo's comment of "I can feel them" would lead me to believe that he did the zapping, whether psychically or chosen h4x0r like. If the Sentinels had fallen from a ship's blast, Neo probably wouldn't have passed out afterwords, either. That alone points to legit psychic powers, IMHO. Well, either that, or a second matrix convincing him he has psychic powers, and therefore making him pass out from the "effort".))

However, the ending scene with the monitors didn't seem too promising for those of us who wouldn't be thrilled to see a Matrix-in-a-Matrix explanation. It just seemed too much like Neo was a bug in the system itself, not a bug outside the system who infiltrated it. Meaning that Neo is a bad line of code, per se...something inherent in the program itself, an actual part of the program, originating from the source code. Therefore...Zion is bogus, it's a Matrix in a Matrix, and we've all been jerried. [Mad]

[ 05-17-2003, 04:14 AM: Message edited by: PikaCharma ]

- - - - -
Pikacharma's Bottomless Pit -- Vote 4 Mike, see a dead Togepi, and take the Pokemon Purity test!

"There's no such thing as a soul. It's just something made up to scare us kids, like the boogieman or Michael Jackson." -- Bart Simpson

From: Never Land | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
ceoalex316
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posted 05-17-2003 09:49 PM      Profile for ceoalex316     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
They seemed to have stopped the story in the first matrix and then were forced (big sequel money) to continue it. Colonel Sanders did a good job of making the plot go haywire. The basic point it that nothing is what it seems, so there probably will be a matrix inside of a matrix.

So the Oracle was there to convince people that they already made their choices when they still really control their own destiny?

The movie definitely lived up to its special effects hype. Way too much spinning.

- - - - -
Maximum Penetration Industries.

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StealthNinjaScyther
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posted 05-18-2003 12:44 AM      Profile for StealthNinjaScyther   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It seems that I came up with a completely different explanation for Neo's ability to disable the machines than from everybody else. I got the impression that Agent Smith took a part of Neo with him when he was killed. That could explain his newfound duplication ablities as well as him being able to enter the real world. I'm thinking that Neo also took a part Agent Smith with him, part of the matrix, part of the machines. This is what I'm thinking that allowed Neo to disable those machines in the real world. It also makes a better connection between Smith and Neo, as in Smith is part human and Neo is part machine. Does this sound at all plausible?
From: Auburn, WA, USA | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Anthrax
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posted 05-18-2003 12:56 AM      Profile for Anthrax   Author's Homepage   Email Anthrax   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by StealthNinjaScyther:
It seems that I came up with a completely different explanation for Neo's ability to disable the machines than from everybody else. I got the impression that Agent Smith took a part of Neo with him when he was killed. That could explain his newfound duplication ablities as well as him being able to enter the real world. I'm thinking that Neo also took a part Agent Smith with him, part of the matrix, part of the machines. This is what I'm thinking that allowed Neo to disable those machines in the real world. It also makes a better connection between Smith and Neo, as in Smith is part human and Neo is part machine. Does this sound at all plausible?

Yeah that's pretty much what I'm thinking. Neo made Smith more human (free will, being able to go outside the Matrix), Smith made Neo more machine (ability to emit EMPs). It's suggested that Smith released an EMP, causing those five ships to be destroyed, so it's likely that if Smith can do it, Neo can.

- - - - -
She told The Associated Press she first realized her son was mentally ill in 1996 when he killed her oldest child, a 25-year-old woman who suffered from cerebral palsy, by beating her with a dumbbell.

From: Somebody put shit in my pants! | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
BigCheese
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posted 05-18-2003 01:55 AM      Profile for BigCheese   Email BigCheese   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
*spoilers ahead*

You shouldn't be down this far if you weren't expecting spoilers anyways.

I knew that wouldn't be able to beat the first one, however the strange plot twists made it worthwhile. The creator of the matrix scene confused the hell out of me. But I saw it again, and it made more sense. Good movie overall, I got the idea of the orgy scene, but it was kinda... Hollywood.

The fights were good, until Neo pulled the Mario moves on Agent Smith (jumping on their heads was really corny). No scene beats the lobby scene in the first movie.

Waiting for the third one... I hope they make it a good ending, and not that matrix within a matrix thing everyone is thinking.

- - - - -
I have a nice butt!

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DarkLickitung
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posted 05-18-2003 02:15 AM      Profile for DarkLickitung   Email DarkLickitung   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I felt that the presence of NUMEROUS ROBOT PLUGS detracted from the artistic value of the SEX SCENE.
From: See You Auntie. | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 05-18-2003 03:48 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Agent Smith (the one inside the human) did indeed set off an EMP to destroy the five ships, but he almost certainly just triggered one of the ones on board.

The idea of Agent Smith magically giving Neo EMP powers isn't actually any different: in either case it is a power that defies science (remember, this is a science fiction movie with no fantasy component, or that's how it's been presented so far).

In other words, there's no way a real human brain can emit an EMP. So if he's going to use the force, then there's a force to be used.

From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Anthrax
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posted 05-18-2003 09:12 PM      Profile for Anthrax   Author's Homepage   Email Anthrax   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by cfalcon:
Agent Smith (the one inside the human) did indeed set off an EMP to destroy the five ships, but he almost certainly just triggered one of the ones on board.

The idea of Agent Smith magically giving Neo EMP powers isn't actually any different: in either case it is a power that defies science (remember, this is a science fiction movie with no fantasy component, or that's how it's been presented so far).

In other words, there's no way a real human brain can emit an EMP. So if he's going to use the force, then there's a force to be used.

Yeah but Smith was in a coma along with Neo at the end of the movie, so I'm pretty sure Smith did the EMP trick as well. Plus in the first film, when they wanted to use an EMP, the operator had to type in a command on the computer to charge it, then open the case, and then turn the switch. I don't really think the crew would let Smith do all that.

I don't really think there's a "force", it's more like Smith and Neo have a part of themselves that is always in the Matrix, and that part can sense sentinels and trigger EMPs.

[ 05-18-2003, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: Anthrax ]

From: Somebody put shit in my pants! | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Dark_Herakurosu
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posted 05-18-2003 09:25 PM      Profile for Dark_Herakurosu   Author's Homepage   Email Dark_Herakurosu   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In other words, there's no way a real human brain can emit an EMP. So if he's going to use the force, then there's a force to be used.

I don't think so. I say, if there's a way to extract energy from expelled body heat, then electromagnetic pulses within neurons can somehow be directed outward. Neo is shown in the matrix to have strange powers, these may be present because he somehow has a stronger pulse in his neurons than most other people. Perhaps he pushed himself to make the pulse even stronger, and directed it outward to simulate an EMP blast. Undoubtedly it was weak, since the nearby ship wasn't affected. Maybe the Smith part of Bane was more sensitive to this, causing him to black out as well as Neo and the sentinels. Or maybe Smith is more linked to Neo than originally thought. Whatever the reason, I can rest assured that the Twins will be in Revolutions. (Damn, how do you kill something like that?!)

- - - - -
There is more money being spent on breast implants and Viagra today than on Alzheimer's research. This means that by 2040, there should be a large elderly population with perky boobs, huge erections, and absolutely no recollection of what to do with them.

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Wizzymoto
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posted 05-19-2003 12:19 AM      Profile for Wizzymoto   Email Wizzymoto   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The trailer for the 3rd one makes it look like Smith takes over everything. Like he copies himself into everyone or something like that.

I couldn't help laughing at the end when the guy was like "we have one survivor" and it shows Bane and does the classic "DUN DUN DUNNNNNN" music. hehe

From: Irvine, CA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 05-19-2003 12:34 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah but Smith was in a coma along with Neo at the end of the movie, so I'm pretty sure Smith did the EMP trick as well.

The purposelful similarity of their position could be what's going on- but why just EMP effects?

Smith is really intelligent, and a trusted crew member in his human skin. I bet he could just trigger and EMP and escape, probably after talking to the machines.

But I guess they *could* be trying to tell us that Neo and Smith can both do fucked up shit.

From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
MK
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posted 05-19-2003 02:26 AM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It was excellent...

heard a rumor there was a Matrix 3 preview after the credits

Yeah, there was, at the very end of the credits. One of the cool scenes showed Neo walking down a road with a bunch of Agent Smiths on both sides, and then he confronts a single agent smith in the center of the road...

-----

My thoughts. I never dreamed of a matrix in a matrix, even when I watched the movie. I figured Neo just has some sort of powers now...

Tell me if this is what everyone else thinks. The architect, the one who built the matrix, has done the following...

There have been like 5 or 6 people like Neo before that had the powers to do all the superman stuff. They all reached the source code room where you are supposed to be able to "end the rule of the robots" but really sets the following in motion...

*The end of Zion except for like 6 men and 7 women

That's what the 2 doors were for. All previous "the ones" took the "destroy zion but save about 13 people to rebuild the next zion"

However, Neo took the "return to the matrix and end the lives of all who are connected to the matrix"

Even though they are supposed to be rogue programs on their own, ALL of them led neo towards the source code room, especially the oracle. In that sense, I believe that all of them, including the oracle were bad. The only one who might have not been bad was the keymaster...

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MK
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posted 05-19-2003 05:42 AM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How many of you have had luck finding a screener copy of the movie online for download? So far on Kazaa I've struck out 3 times, all fakes...

So, save yourself the time and effort and don't bother downloading the following...

*Matrix Reloaded ( Full Movie)

*[tmd]Matrix.Reloaded.ts(1of2)

*[tmd]Matrix.Reloaded.ts(2of2)

*(FULL)The.Matrix.Reloaded

The first one is Ice Age. The middle ones I don't remember what crap that is, and the last one is just like over an hour of nothing but blank! Yes, just some prick with a cruel sense of humor made that one...

- - - - -
CatGonk: *goes to take shower*
CatGonk: fuck, water's too cold

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SDShamshel
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posted 05-19-2003 08:54 AM      Profile for SDShamshel   Email SDShamshel   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Matrix in a Matrix would be lame and obvious.

Here's hoping that they don't do something this...the word's not contrived, but something to that extent.

From: Tokyo-3 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Gary Oak
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posted 05-19-2003 01:09 PM      Profile for Gary Oak     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MK:
How many of you have had luck finding a screener copy of the movie online for download? So far on Kazaa I've struck out 3 times, all fakes...

I can't stand that shit.

Speaking of The Matrix, I just downloaded all of the Animatrix episodes they have for free at www.theanimatrix.com. Those little films are awesome, now I want to buy the DVD next month. If you haven't seen them you should check them out.

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"You think it is done, you think all is well. Well kiss my green ass I shall see you in hell."

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From: Roselle, Illinois | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
ReturnofNumeroUno
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posted 05-19-2003 03:01 PM      Profile for ReturnofNumeroUno   Email ReturnofNumeroUno   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Persephone is hot.

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Ich Liebe NintendoLover

From: Pembroke Pines Florida | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
MK
is somewhat large.
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posted 05-19-2003 10:47 PM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't know if this is true or not, but better safe that sorry. Another message board was displaying this warning...

"Virus Alert: Don't download anything from KaZaA right now, they have a huge virus named Fissure going on right now."

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Ikuse
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posted 05-19-2003 11:20 PM      Profile for Ikuse   Author's Homepage   Email Ikuse   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ReturnofNumeroUno:
Persephone is hot

quote:
Originally posted by MK:
I don't know if this is true or not

IT IS TRUE

SUBSTANTIATE HERE AND HERE .

From: In my pants. | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Wintermute
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posted 05-20-2003 12:24 AM      Profile for Wintermute   Author's Homepage   Email Wintermute   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[Neo fragging the sentinels] means one of:

(1) He really does have some kind of magic power, because he can do impossible things *in the real world*.
(2) They are still in the matrix. Another layer or something.


Neo fragging the sentinels was simply an expression of the ability we already knew he had. The only thing different was the interface. Forget about whether they were "in" the Matrix: that's simply a name for one way of contacting the system.

We've known from the get-go that he can manipulate that system by thinking about it. From the real world. Where do you think he is when he sits down in that dentist's chair? Given that, the difference between rewriting code and blasting out an EMP is exactly the difference between levitating a rock and levitating an X-Wing out of the swamp.

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cfalcon
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posted 05-20-2003 01:09 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't buy that- when he's strapped into the chair, it's all about a ton of information being transmitted to the matrix, but it's all software. "The Matrix" proper doesn't seem to be just written software: the ludicrous architect talks and talks about The One and how he can gain access over things, so it's plain that the Matrix is to some extent algorithmically generated or something- that's why the machines aren't gods inside it, just very powerful.

So when he does magical shit, it's because his *thoughts* are able to rewrite some of the virtual world somehow. It isn't like he's doing some action at a distance, or sending huge shockwaves through the whatever lines- there's something in his head that does it.

Or at least, that's the simplest explanation, and the one that's valid until he shocks machines out of the air. Your explanation is valid, but it's the difference between a computer hacker and an honest to goodness wizard- the wizard *could* do it, but then you have to believe in magic.

I liked the computer hacker explanation much better.

From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Wintermute
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posted 05-20-2003 05:35 AM      Profile for Wintermute   Author's Homepage   Email Wintermute   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That is why you fail.
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Mr. K
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posted 05-20-2003 11:44 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So...was I the only one who was bored during the fight scenes?
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cfalcon
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posted 05-20-2003 12:43 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, the characters were bored.

Look, doesn't it make more sense that at some level their "One" is able to outthink / intuit what should be done to make some virtual world do what he wants? Isn't that better (less suspension of disbelief) than someone who actually has magical powers?

I mean, even in movie logic "hacker" requires less bullshit than "mage".

From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
ceoalex316
Time for the flaming leprosy party
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posted 05-20-2003 01:10 PM      Profile for ceoalex316     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wouldn't it make more sense to give each person his own matrix, and not have everyone in the matrix interact with everyone else? But that would ruin the movie.

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Maximum Penetration Industries.

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cfalcon
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posted 05-20-2003 02:32 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ok, a *lot* of things would make more sense. It *is* just a movie, after all, and not the most consistent of one (yet).
From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Wintermute
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posted 05-20-2003 03:15 PM      Profile for Wintermute   Author's Homepage   Email Wintermute   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would have liked to see the Smith/Neo fight trimmed down a bit, but thought it was more or less worth my effort in going to the movie. The noise he made whacking Smiths around with the pole evoked the classic final fight sequence in Arachnophobia, and not in a bad way.

The staircase fight was 98% boring to me.

The entire chase scene, including Morpheus's fight, was terribly boring to me.

The Architect (who sounded exactly like, but wasn't, the voice actor for Project 2501) was one of my favorite parts. Saw a parallel/influence there between Architect/Oracle and Wintermute/Neuromancer.

John, Neo's interaction with the Matrix has never been a very good analog to what a hacker actually does. He has no idea how to even read the code of the Matrix. The complexity of even component programs are undoubtedly totally beyond his comprehension. His abilities are intuitive and generally immediate. I'm arguing that you shouldn't really find his powers that much easier to believe when, as a user, he is exerting them while using the Matrix as an interface. He's still just altering the system merely by thinking about the change he wants to happen. That's a "magical" power, right there.

Put another way: he's only making a "virtual" world do what he wants by directly altering the entirely physical properties of the system that generates that world. Fragging the sentinels was just upping the amperage.

Neo and Link should have had each other's names in Reloaded.

From: Winnipeg, Manitoba | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Living on air bubbles
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posted 05-20-2003 03:19 PM      Profile for Living on air bubbles   Email Living on air bubbles   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Neo went into a coma because (assuming he took a part of Smith with him in Matrix Uno) because Neo is part machine now, which means that it was the EMP blast that knocked Neo and Bane out and disabled the Sentinels, not because Neo has powers outside of the Matrix.
From: Cherry Hill, Suicide Captial of The World | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Shenlong19
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posted 05-20-2003 04:08 PM           Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Wintermute:
...John...

John?
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posted 05-20-2003 04:44 PM      Profile for starCaliber   Email starCaliber   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Shenlong19: John?

yeah man lol WHAT THE FUCK thats so gay dude i bet his birth certificate sez "CAFLCOIN!!11 FLACION PNCUH!"

u gotr onwed by shenlging109

From: San Francisco, CA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr.E
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posted 05-20-2003 05:13 PM      Profile for Mr.E     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Caflcoin cannot use the Flacion Punch.

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MickHale18: nevermind, I'll pull out for a second
MickHale18: *pulls out finger*

From: Munchkin Land, Oz | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 05-20-2003 05:32 PM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wintermute: I would have liked to see the Smith/Neo fight trimmed down a bit, but thought it was more or less worth my effort in going to the movie.

I thought that fight was OK, but when you completely remove the emotion and any sort of consequences from the fight (essentially, 2 invincible, detached forces are fighting), I lose all interest.

As cfalcon pointed out, even the fighters were bored.

The staircase fight was 98% boring to me.

That was certainly the least interesting fight scene. That was the one where my mind actually started to wander. I don't think that's ever happened to me in a fight scene before, and that never happens in a Jackie Chan fight scene, where he does cooler things in real life than Neo can apparently do in a video game.

The entire chase scene, including Morpheus's fight, was terribly boring to me.

I wasn't interested in the chase, but I liked Morpheus' fight. For one, there was the slight possibility that either of the less important characters could be killed, and, at the very least, no one wanted to fall off the truck.

So...at least something was at stake.

I was kinda hoping Neo would have learnt some better tricks by now. OK, he can stop bullets, but all that does is make things less interesting. I thought the flying was pretty good, and that he should have done more of that kinda thing.

I mean, once you have the power to warp the universe, you can get all Green Lantern and shit and be creative.

Basically, I would have been happier with a Rumble in the Bronx/Operation Condor double-feature, and I would have seen a lot better fighting and no pretension.

But...then I wouldn't have so much to complain about, which is sorta interesting. Bad movies are interesting on their own, since it's fun to figure out just exactly why they suck.

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Dark_Herakurosu
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posted 05-20-2003 06:24 PM      Profile for Dark_Herakurosu   Author's Homepage   Email Dark_Herakurosu   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Obligatory OMG WINTERMUTE WTF comment. Also, if Neo can do whatever the fuck he wants, why not just put a big wall around himself? And why isn't he any faster than he was in 1's Kung-fu scene godammit!? No funky "I'm so much faster than you so don't even try it", and the bullets - if he can move so well, why stop them when you can dodge them indefinitely? Merf. The agents can do it, even while standing atop a small 60mph vehicle, with rapid-fire no less. And if he can bend reality, Neo should really bend it. I mean, pull shit out of thin air, firing homing plasma pulses, stuff like that. Closing note: residual self-image. If one truly thinks they are a chicken, when they go into the matrix are they a chicken?

- - - - -
There is more money being spent on breast implants and Viagra today than on Alzheimer's research. This means that by 2040, there should be a large elderly population with perky boobs, huge erections, and absolutely no recollection of what to do with them.

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ceoalex316
Time for the flaming leprosy party
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posted 05-20-2003 06:50 PM      Profile for ceoalex316     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Herakurosu:
Closing note: residual self-image. If one truly thinks they are a chicken, when they go into the matrix are they a chicken?

Yes, that's why they don't free people who think they are chickens.

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Maximum Penetration Industries.

From: NYC | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Shenlong19
unregistered


posted 05-20-2003 07:22 PM           Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by starCaliber:
yeah man lol WHAT THE FUCK thats so gay dude i bet his birth certificate sez "CAFLCOIN!!11 FLACION PNCUH!"

Lol, no, not really. I was just surprised to hear someone mention someone else's IRL name.
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cfalcon
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posted 05-20-2003 07:34 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Toby, I'm beginning to believe that you are correct about that (just doing more of the same), (and not just because the nested worlds is stupid) but that doesn't mean that in order to do his earlier stuff he needed "magic" or the ability to change the system by thinking about it.

Yes, it's nothing like a real hacker- but the point is that Neo was supposed to be interested in hacking, was supposed to be a computer guy, and it is consistent with the "movie hacker" concept, which isn't totally clear. What I took away from the first movie is that some part of Neo- maybe not conscious- had figured out a way to manipulate The Matrix in ways the computers couldn't stop or control. To coin a horrible phrase I hope I never hear again, "subliminal hacking". In other words, no magic.

I guess you saw it differently, and the movie doesn't give us the ability to distinguish them. It just seems like my original explanation was simpler, in the sense that it didn't require any magic (that the rest of the movie implied didn't exist).

Remember that *everyone* in the Matrix from outside can pull stunts: Agents dodging bullets, really high jumps, physical impossibilities. Neo just has more, and really good ones.

From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
New Guy
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posted 05-21-2003 12:27 PM      Profile for New Guy   Email New Guy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
During Morpheus's big speech in the cave, when everyone has thier fist held high, I considered for a split second yelling out "black power!"

Best line: "It is like wiping your ass with silk."

My friend got the game for the XBox, and it has some scenes filmed for especially for the game (some even with the main characters). There is one scene in that takes place in the Matrix. The character you play (Ghost, partner of Niobe) is approached by a hobo who says something like "72 hours, that's how long Zion lasted last time." When asked who he is, he replies "Oh, nobody." As if I wasn't confused enought after the movie.

My 0.02 $: As for Neo Thunder Waveing the sentinels, the only thing that had changed for Neo since he was last in the "real world" was he visited the Architect (I need to see that one scene a few more times). Therefore, I believe his new power stemms some how from that visit.

Also, since Trinity-I'm-not-supposed-to-be-hot-but-sometimes-I-am-WTH has died and been brought back to life, does that mean she will get some kinda powers?

OK, so maybe the thing is one big Matrix in a Matrix. The Machines realized that no matter thier efforts, some people would break free and start a revolution. So the Machines have constructed a believable revolution world to distract people who might be problems in the Matrix.

But then, maybe the Matrix and Zion and everything else are one big training simulation designed to produce super humans. What for? The impending alien invasion, of course.

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@!!**... I forgot my chain saw!-Satan

From: Georgia | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
SDShamshel
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posted 05-21-2003 10:22 PM      Profile for SDShamshel   Email SDShamshel   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Humans have created a matrix for machines who have created a matrix for humans.

Wut.

From: Tokyo-3 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged


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