Seriousley people, do you get a kick out of using a curse/whirlwind/drill peck/rest skarmory to counter curselax, when no-one even uses curselax anymore? Perhaps you all find it enjoyable, I for one would hate it.

In short the spirit of the game has been lost. Karen of the E4 put it best, although I wonder how many people sharked teams without bothering to get as far through the game as to battle her.

Perhaps I'm stupid, and this rant is useless. Forgive me, it's late and I currently hate life.

I gave up on melting my brain over strategies (for 'strategies' read 'countering popular standards') about a month ago, and since then everything has picked up. My interaction with the opposite gender has increased to levels I didn't know it could do, I've finally taken an active role in music and, heaven forbid, my grades are picking up. Goddish, this sounds like a Krap Park topic, I wouldn't be surprised if it is moved. Why do I think people care about my life anyway, sorry, I'll get on with the topic.

Some may argue the spirit of the game is in 'competitiveness' and 'being the best' - if using the same tired old pokemon with the same tired old moves over and over and over again is the way to be the best, then I want no part of it. I'll sink into oblivion, be better than most but still get my ass handed to me by experienced veterans, sorry, standard-bearers.

I forgot what I'm on about now, but if anyone wants to comment on why fun teams > jumpluff starters then please reply. To use the old sharker's get-out-of-jail card, this is a game to be played for fun (the difference being that fun teams are fun and sharking is for lazy hobos).

Venomoth oWNz. It's always fun to sleep a Marowak or Snorlax and paralyze Starmie/Zapdos on the switch.

I'd absolutely love to see some type of Pokemon MMRPG where people go about the world raising their own pokes and challenging then, seeing what works and doesn't, watching the counters slowly come to life as certain dominant pokes become visible. Some may say that this would decrease diversity even moreso (people may just end up using the same six), but I'd disagree. The number of standards that currently exist is well more than six, so while teams might at first become similar as popular standards come up, they'd also diversify as different people came up with different counters.

Also, the emotional aspect would be higher, since people go through everything with the guys, rather than pulling them out of their ass at a moment's whim. This way more people would decide (hypothetically) that they just couldn't part with their Vileplume, since it looks so cool, and they work harding trying to effectively fit it in as a team player. I dunno, I think its important to feel as though the guys out there are "yours"(kinda the reason Mr. K doesn't like PBS).

People would be less prone to use a standard simply because its a standard to. For example, say that someone, who already raised a team, realized that Zapdos was damn good. In GSbot he could easily make one up, but in a hand-raising format he'd have to go through a lot of work, and make sure that he appropriately fit into the team. People wold be less likely to use standards simply because they are standards.

Also, movesets would diversify, since there would be greater difficulty in finding rare TMs, breeding on moves, and most importantly, hidden power. I don't think anything upsets me more about GSbot than the horrible HP abuse. It has so much potential use, and its really takes some serious effort to get, but people just slap it on like its nothing...

I'm probably not quite on topic, but my point is that instant Poke creation can help lead to overstandardization, which is bad. It is bad because it ignores the diverse possibilities and personal connection with Pokemon that are an important part of the game.

The way most people try to remedy this, using "fun teams" with unevolved Pokes or really weird movesets. This is also bad, but in a different way. By doing so, the competitive aspect is diminished and ignored. Playing for fun is all good and well, and if you're happy playing with Marril, Cyndaquil, and Pichu, more power to you. But I think if you do this, you're not that far from playing with Pokemon plush dolls, because you're either ignoring or seriously diminishing the strategic aspects. I mean, if you really want to play with your favorites, other (besides Prime) cups are out there.

Whether the game is played with nothing but standards, or with nothing but fun teams, you're losing an important aspect of what makes Pokemon Pokemon

I may get flamed for that bit, but at least it's something to think about.

Another problem that D21 brings up is that so many people care only about winning and "being the best" that it blindsides them to experimentation and diversity. A lot of people just have to stick with what works because they're too unwilling to ty something that doesn't.

I use fun teams to make things interesting. When you battle the same teams over and over using your same standard Pokemon over and over, it becomes monotonous.

There are Pokemon with good stats who could be considered fun. They're not used because of the current metagame (eg Slowking), or because there's a more powerful alternative.

Frankly, if the game was all about winning, we'd all be walking around with our level 255 Pokemon.

And gruco states something I've been saying for a long time.

People are AFRAID to take chances.

There are many, many strategies we probably haven't discovered yet, but hardly anyone's willing to stray too far from the standards. They fear losing a battle so much that they can never diversify. We cannot develop brilliant new strategies unless people are willing to try. And no, slapping a different special move on a Snorlax does not make it "unique."

Anyway, when people are able to in a matter of seconds create 6 max-DVed, max-Stat'd, fully bred, fully TMed/HMed, and fully itemizoble, they are going to use the best pokemon they can.

This is far from true in the GameBoy world when there is a limit to TMs. There is very very low chances of finding max dv's or the dv's you want for Hidden Power. Breeding takes a lot longer. No one has that much stamina, I know I don't. Some pokemon aren't available in your version, and if you trade for them, they will be ultimately weaker because of the trade exp. deal. Its a whole different story out there.

I would love an RPG like the GameBoy game. Something like KeroKato's, only in GSC format and slightly more like the gameboy game(KK does a good job, though).

I've used fun teams as my real team. There is nothing more satisfying then seeing your Koffing take down a CurseLax. Nothing. However, the chances of you winning are not in your favor and it tips the odds against you.

Pokemon is a game of numbers, and because we know what to expect, we can calculate it in a matter of seconds. I hear in the chat room, "Can Starmie OHKO or 2HKO Tyranitar?" or something like that. Surprisingly, people know the answer. The game today is too predictable.

Besides, I haven't been in Azure Heights since September to rub the fact that high school didn't suck for me in on all the Karp Parkers (who all said that High School would suck for me and stuff)

On GSBot use: I've been saying for a long time now that people are using GSBot too much, but rather for the reason that it portrays game rules incorrectly. Now I have another reason. It's always been my opinion that the metagame has been developing too rapidly for its own good, but its connection to the GSBot has always been so obvious that I've failed to note it. However, a national/international metagame can't truly come into being without either a GSBot (or related PBS), an online Pokemon game (e.g. PX), or Nintendo-sponsored tourneys and other battle events (READ: events that will never happen in our lifetimes, save an ET-related miracle). Online games would be preferred and would be almost exactly like the game, but the GSBot was much faster to make and thus became the current method of choice for GSC battling (and thus metagame development.) Oh, well.

On favorites vs. strong Pokemon: Simple. Use your favorites. If you want to win, use the strongest of your favorites. Among my favorites are Starmie, Articuno, Zapdos, and Gengar. And, even though I dislike Forretress in general, I really like my own particular Forretress (nick: Spike Pit). Having strong Pokemon as favorites can add a new level of depth to this win vs. fun war. Just because someone wants to create a tournament for fun teams doesn't mean they shouldn't allow, say, Starmies, just because they can be standard. (One of my favorite Starmie movesets has neither Thunder Wave nor Confuse Ray, and is in no way standard.)

On non-standard movesets: This is one of my specialties. When I make a team, maybe one or two of the Pokemon will be standard (out of necessity), but the others can have wacky movesets. Once here, I posted a moveset for Porygon2 (Conversion/Curse/Shadow Ball/Recover), as part of my attempt to come up with new and unusual movesets that may actually work. I was met with a reply to the effect of, "exactly what standard are you trying to counter?" From this I get the feeling that people are just plain afraid of non-standards, because they've had no experience with them.

Well, there's my two cents (or fraction thereof.)

I feel the pain of those who loathe standards. None of (or very few of) my Pokemon are standards. Simply because I like it that way. And they STILL kick ass.

Ever tried a Thunderbolting Gengar? Or a Surfing Furret? Maybe a curse-and-resting Noctowl? What about a Double Kicking Jolteon? Think it over, people. All of these Pokemon have saved my bacon multiple times. Gengar killed a Ho-Oh at level 80 when it was only level 60. Noctowl flattened the elite four first time around. Jolteon swept three ground types. Furret singlehandedly killed Claire in my second gamefile.

When you actually take the time to catch the pokémon, choose them carefully, then train them yourself to L100, you get emotionally attached to them. Sure, say I'm a geek, but I like my Pokémon. They are my friends. They are only a bunch of 1's and 0's, but I like them anyway. I don't like
*any* Quagsire, it has to be *my* Quagsire. I am still sad about my Corsola, who got lost in Cyberspace when I decided to pull the plug for Bill's PC in an attempt to clone a TM.