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Author Topic: Question on move - Return -
JoHtO TrAiNeR
Farting Nudist
Member # 1777

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posted 08-01-2001 01:57 PM      Profile for JoHtO TrAiNeR   Author's Homepage   Email JoHtO TrAiNeR   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Alright, I was just wondering if Return's power was "enhanced" by moves like Swords Dance, since it says Return is stronger if the pokemon "loves" you more and SD doesn't affect that "happiness quota". This just confuses me for some odd reason, a little help?

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From: St. Paul, MN,USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
incompetent
Farting Nudist
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posted 08-01-2001 03:45 PM      Profile for incompetent   Author's Homepage   Email incompetent   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The base power of return is determined by the happiness level of a pokemon using it, the maximum happiness gives return 102 base power. Basically, it's a normal move that's altered by swords dance etc. like any other move. The happiness factor merely changes the base power.

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From: California | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Shenlong19
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posted 08-01-2001 03:51 PM           Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
really, i thought it did 153 max

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Evil Espeon
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posted 08-01-2001 04:07 PM      Profile for Evil Espeon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Shenlong - That's if a normal pokemon uses it and gets the STAB. Otherwise, it would be broken. I'd love to fight Snorlax's with a move equal to Hyper Beam that never has to recharge. ~_~

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From: ... | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
JoHtO TrAiNeR
Farting Nudist
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posted 08-02-2001 11:16 PM      Profile for JoHtO TrAiNeR   Author's Homepage   Email JoHtO TrAiNeR   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Okay, so you're saying if I use Curselax, then Curse would make Return more powerful? Then why do people have Double-Edge on instead of Return? It beats having to deal with that damn Recoil which does lots of damage to you with a cursed Snorlax. Okay, just wondering, cause you can probably see I'm working with Snorlax right now.

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From: St. Paul, MN,USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Frogjedi
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posted 08-03-2001 01:07 AM      Profile for Frogjedi   Author's Homepage   Email Frogjedi   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Actually Doubleedge's recoil does very little to snorlax because in turn with raising his attack hit raises his defence. Ultimately the recoil stays the same even if he curses. Anyways I am not a fan of doubleedge either. Return/bodyslam are definetly a better choice on snorlax. I personally for some reason like putting shadow ball on him.

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From: I'm filing. Oh yes I'm filing. | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
SDShamshel
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posted 08-03-2001 01:22 AM      Profile for SDShamshel   Email SDShamshel   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Double-Edge = Base 120 damage
Return = Base 102 max damage
Body Slam = Base 85 damage

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From: Tokyo-3 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
MK
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posted 08-03-2001 02:31 AM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Frogjedi, ShadowBall is really not a bad idea for Snorlax. Even without a Curse or two (or a belly drum for that matter) Shadow Ball can deal some damage to the psychic type. And, if you do get some curses under your belt, prepare to ROCK!

-MK


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SDShamshel
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posted 08-03-2001 02:42 AM      Profile for SDShamshel   Email SDShamshel   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
OR you could just smack that Psychic Type with a STAB Double-Edge/Return/Body Slam and masses of damage anyway, and free up the slot you would've used for Shadow Ball for something else.

Shadow Ball would be recommended for taking out Misdreavus, but not for Psychics.

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"It looks like this is my lucky day. I'll take 'The Rapists' for 200."
"That's 'Therapists,' not 'The Rapists.'"
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From: Tokyo-3 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Random Loser
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posted 08-03-2001 03:01 AM      Profile for Random Loser   Email Random Loser   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Frogjedi:
Actually Doubleedge's recoil does very little to snorlax because in turn with raising his attack hit raises his defence. Ultimately the recoil stays the same even if he curses.

Eh? No, the recoil is set damage, 1/4 what he deals to the opponent. As his attack goes up, the damage goes up, and so does the recoil.

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From: Uni of Virginny | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gloomboy
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posted 08-03-2001 01:12 PM      Profile for Gloomboy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wouldn't Shadow Ball be for Ghost-types,who are immune to Double-Edge?

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From: San Antonio, Texas | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Lieutenant Aerodactyl
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posted 08-03-2001 02:20 PM      Profile for Lieutenant Aerodactyl   Email Lieutenant Aerodactyl   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MK:
Frogjedi, ShadowBall is really not a bad idea for Snorlax. Even without a Curse or two (or a belly drum for that matter) Shadow Ball can deal some damage to the psychic type. And, if you do get some curses under your belt, prepare to ROCK!

-MK


UUmmm, IIRC, Shadow Ball has 80 power. Times that by two for the super effective. 160 power.

Now, Double Edge has 120 power, with STAB makes it 180 power. Even without the super effective, Double Edge is more powerful. (Against Rocks, all of them take neutral damage to Ghost, and even with the Not Very Effective takes a more powerful attack via Double Edge)

The main reason for Shadow Ball is for the odd Ghost that you see.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that it?


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Frogjedi
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posted 08-04-2001 08:49 PM      Profile for Frogjedi   Author's Homepage   Email Frogjedi   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I use shadowball for mainly rocks, and ghosts. Nothing else. I put it there for its surprise factor.

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From: I'm filing. Oh yes I'm filing. | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
MK
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posted 08-04-2001 10:46 PM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ok, just to make sure I've got this straight...

Let's say Snorlax does a Double-Edge against a Kingler and does 200 Hit Points Damage to it. Then, no matter how many times Snorlax has cursed, reflected, defensed curled, etc... Snorlax's recoil will always be 50 right?

Just Checkin,
-MK


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Donald
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posted 08-04-2001 11:02 PM      Profile for Donald   Email Donald      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, the recoil will be 50 damage to 'Lax.

200 / 4 = 50.

Basic math, really.


From: In your girl's panties | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Uiru
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posted 08-05-2001 05:21 PM      Profile for Uiru   Author's Homepage   Email Uiru   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Double Edge's recoil on a Curselax shouldn't be any more of a concern than Double Edge on anything else. All Curse does is give you the recoil all at once.

If you do 200 damage to a Chansey with 600 HP (work with me here) with Double Edge, the recoil is 50 points. After three hits, the recoil adds up to 150. Now, if you Curse up all the way beforehand, you do 600 damage, meaning you get the 150 all at the same time. The thing faints, Snorlax is happy, and you move on.

Oh, and Earthquake would be better for dealing with Rocks and Steels, as well as Gengar. Misdreavus might be a problem even with Shadow Ball, if it can do Pain Split. Snorlax has to defeat its own HP rating as well as that of Misdreavus before it'll go away. So, I'd recommend Earthquake as Snorlax's secondary attack.
~Uiru

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From: the floating castle of Newfoundland | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Automaton
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posted 08-06-2001 12:59 AM      Profile for Automaton   Author's Homepage   Email Automaton   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Frogjedi:
Actually Doubleedge's recoil does very little to snorlax because in turn with raising his attack hit raises his defence. Ultimately the recoil stays the same even if he curses. Anyways I am not a fan of doubleedge either. Return/bodyslam are definetly a better choice on snorlax. I personally for some reason like putting shadow ball on him.

The damage from Double-Edge's recoil is calculated totally based on the actual damage done by the attack, and is unaffected by the defense of the user of the attack. The reason D-E doesn't do much to Snorlax as far as recoil damage is because of his high HP.


From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged


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