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Author Topic: How grass got screwed! a para in depth essay on nintendos biasness
Shenlong19
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posted 07-28-2001 05:35 PM           Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hi everybody, im new and i figured i'd write this little article on the grass types so as i dont have to go through a long process to get your respect or disrespect and so you can formulate an opinion on me, so with out further delay i present:

"How Grass Types got Screwed!"
Grass In my opinion has been the victim of the biasedness (is biasdness a real word?) of nintendo. if you notice it seems that nintendo is biased, example: the pikachu family, nintendos mascot, nobody reallly cared for them, i mean why should they? jolteon and zapdos were much better, right? well, nintendo changed that in Yellow, allowing for the surfing pikachu and raichu.but in g/s they really pushed the limit, they made it so you almost HAD to use pikachu, how? well, by giving him the light ball. i thought that that'd be pretty good for the little cup, but lo and behold, they made pikachu unable to compete in the little cup, thus forcing you to feel really pissed. but i didnt stop their either, have you noticed that almost every fire tpe and every electric types can benefit from raindance or sunny day? why, simople, cause sh's two best pokemon were those types, charizard and pikachu. moreover, these two had double advantage for these conditions, charizard was powered up for his fire attacks, and was protected by water and thunder attacks, and pikachu had his surf powered up. now, how is this bad for grass types? because sunny day is pretty much suicide on them with out a light screen. now on to my examples;

- the pokemon
--------------
celebi- ownz j00z

exeggutor- poor guy, never got his chance. he was king of grass types in rby, able to stand up to even the mighty drill peck, he had everything, defense, hp, super special and great attack, all he lacked was speed, which didnt matter casue he was such a tank, and could dish out damage, sadly though he never got a really good grass attack. solarbeam took two turns to charge, in the time which the opponent could switch out, mega drain was weak, and he couldnt learn razor leaf or petal dance(which brings me to the moves of the grass, which ill discuss later)although his psychic was nasty.Finally in gs he could do some damage with giga drain, recover with synthesis, cover his weaknesses with ancient power, and we thought all would be well, right? we had a great grass pkmn and he would whip ass with the new attacks wrong! it turned out his special defense sucked shit, which isnt good, given his incredibly horrible speed and the fact he cant learn light screen even through breeding. now not all is bad, he was a good vampire and he could explode, but sadly, he couldnt protect himself in gs except by a psueedo passer, and as mentioned before sunny day would be suicide on him.

venusaur- well, he wasnt worth much in rby because of his weakness to psychics, shame cause of all the great attacks he got, including razor leaf and leech seed. and inact i think because of the fall from the popularity of psychs, due to dark types, he could safely go outside, but as is nintendos style they have a trade off, unlike eggy and meganium, he cant be bread ancient power, only thing he can et is rock hidden power, which isnt so bad, but youll hae a lot of time finding a bulbasaur with the right dv's, but other wise the guy rocks, and thankfully he special was kept on both ends, sadly though nintendo, being biased, raised the stats of blasoise and charizard and left ol' venu behind and still kept him part poison. but thankfully he has a great move list and can be traded back

meganium- finally we get a pure grass! and the same total stat pints as venusaur! can learn all three psuedo passing moves! can be breed ancient power and leech seed! has special atttack worse than blastoise.... sadly yes. his special attack is equal to venusaurs defence o_O. cant learn sleep powder, ah no biggie, but my main gripe is his s.a., see how nintendo is always screwing the grass types up? always having one major flaw with them? granted 264 isnt THAT bad, but its not anything to get excited about. otherwise, meganium is okay, and probably makes the best vampire out there, due to his endurance, but im still pissed at nintendo.

bellossom- not worth much, not many moves, mediocre stats, cute though

sunflora- *shudders* dont bother

vileplume- pretty much the same as bellossom, cept a worse type and uglier

vicreebel- hes purty much the same as venusaur, and similar stats too

jumpluff- i dont see the use of it cept as a annoyer

notice how sunflora, jumpluff, and bellosom have really bad moves? the only good sets are to use sunny day to power them up. which leads me to the next part, the grass moves

Moves
--------------
razor leaf- due to nintendos biasedness, they cut ch ratio, and even then, 55 base power isnt something to brag about compared to the slash that charmander got, worse, only venusaur and victreebel could get it,a nd they were weak to psychs, so the only good move was never much used in rby

mega drain- 40 damage, thats as powerful as ember, would you put ember on your charizard? i dont think so

petal dance- only good in cunjuntion with safegaurd and bitter berry, prob is you coldnt stop so your opponent would switch out and thee would be nothing you culd do, powerful though, but a turn to use safegaurd would turn me off.

giga drain- 60 base power, 90 with stab, and recovery, whhopie! thats as powerful as swift!except with 5pp

solarbeam- well, one turn solar beam sounds good, but to charge a sunny day takes a turn, thus making it basically as fast as it was in rby, and not to mention, sunny day powers up fire moves, a big no-no. i cant think of a better move to describe nintendos biased ness, this move also is at half power during raindance and sandstorm, WTF!? instead of making it like fireblast and hydro pum and thunder and blizzard, they made it a 2 turn attack! and they didnt leave it alone, they had to fuck with your head by putting in sunny day for one charge. crap. i have more gripes about this move, but im getting bored about talkin about it so ll move on

synthesis/ moonlight- basiacally nintendo screwed with your mind the same way the did with solar beam

powders- okay, cept toxic is better for poison, thunder wave is betta for paralysis, and the maximum turns some poke can be asleep has been lowered

now on to my final section, they actually strengh and weaknesses.

offensivly
--------
weak- flying, bug, fire, steel, poison, drag, grass
strong- water, ground, rock

defensivly
---------
strong- grass, water, thunder, rock, ground
weak- fire, ice, flying, bug, poison

now, notice the many weaknesses of grass types, ddefensivly they are strong, but offensivly they arent. now does this seem fair? aespecially in comparison to normal, electric, and water types who have so few weaknesses? not to me, the least the could do is make grass offensilvly strong to electric. in conclusion, i am dissapointed in nintendo, but will not stop from using grass types. i hope i opened your eyes to my opinion and hope that i wont get flamed ot death, while i agree i am a little extreme, i feel some of my opinions are right, thanx for reading

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Beware the Dynasty! Listen To Uncle!

"Together for ever, no matter how long"
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Shenlong19
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posted 07-28-2001 06:33 PM           Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
anybody? guess not

------------------
Beware the Dynasty! Listen To Uncle!

"Together for ever, no matter how long"
-Dragonite to Flareon


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MK
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posted 07-28-2001 08:10 PM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I looked at what you had to say. I think you've got some good ideas there. I personally like the grass type. When I first played my Pokmon Blue I picked Bulbasaur. When I played Gold for the first time, I picked Chikorita (which I'm glad is only type grass). Solarbeam and Giga Drain are excellent attacks and good against strong types, the sad part is, grass Pokmon can get beat up too easily. As sad as it is, it seems the best way to use a grass type move is to teach it to a non-grass Pokmon.

I.E. Houndoom with SunnyDay/SolarBeam
I.E. ________ with Grass Hidden Power

But, there is still hope for grass. As silly as it may be, I like Meganium & I still have one on my level 100 team.


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Shenlong19
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posted 07-28-2001 08:49 PM           Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
amen

------------------
Beware the Dynasty! Listen To Uncle!

"Together for ever, no matter how long"
-Dragonite to Flareon


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incompetent
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posted 07-28-2001 09:50 PM      Profile for incompetent   Author's Homepage   Email incompetent   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Perhaps maybe you ought to entitle this "How eggy got screwed". Whatever the case, I'm not that sad about his drop as it's nice to see that the psychic type is a lot less broken now. If you're still upset, just have some fun with eggy's explosion as it's got a wonderful base power in G/S.

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"Extensive testing has proven that he's the best leek-wielding ninja duck in the game, and I stand by that." -Versus Books on Farfetch'd


From: California | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mu
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posted 07-29-2001 05:15 AM      Profile for Mu   Author's Homepage   Email Mu   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You've made some grevious mistakes...

meganium- finally we get a pure grass!
What about Tangela? He's been there all this time and now can be bred Amnesia to make up for his lack of Special Defense.

Not only that, where the hell did you put Parasect in this?

You seem obsessed with Grass types with Rock moves, I'm not sure why, not only that, but you say Victreebel has pretty much similar stats to a Venusaur, despite Victreebel being more a Poison type that happens to be Grass. Victreebel has the highest Attack of a Grass type and is better suited to using its Powders in conjunction with physical moves.

Your assumption is that the stats and types aren't balanced, yet look at the moves Grass types (in general) get. The two highest accuracy sleeping moves, Powders/Spores that cause paralyzation and poison in addition to these.
They aren't Mewtwos, they are mainly supporting Pokemon that rely on these status changes and their prolific range of healing moves to endure and damage. Speaking of which, you rag on Absorb/Mega/Giga Drain for not being very powerful (actually, you forgot about Absorb totally) and yet overlook a simple fact.

These are two moves in one. In card game termss that's called a Multi-Use. You don't have to pack down your Pokemon with defensive moves, an offensive move and a healing move. You can just do defensive moves and a Drain, freeing up an entire slot, admittedly the Drains are weak, but possibly because they would be completely DOMINATING if they were about 80 base power.

mega drain- 40 damage, thats as powerful as ember, would you put ember on your charizard? i dont think so

No, I wouldn't, but that's possibly because;
1: Ember doesn't give me health back.
2: Only Parasect, Forretress and Scizor are four times weak to Ember, as opposed to the range of Pokemon four times weak to Grass.

The bottom line is, Grass types aren't front runners, they're supporters and also happen to be the only thing Quagsire is weak to. Stop assuming you are smarter than people who make the game, they think on a totally different level than you, break out of the fucking square you live in.

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[EDIT:Corrected some stupid spelling mistakes thanks to it being so cold it's hard to type]

[This message has been edited by Mu (edited 07-29-2001).]


From: Auckland, New Zealand | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Shenlong19
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posted 07-29-2001 09:34 AM           Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
thats why its para-in depth, not quite in depth hehe, gimme a break, i wrote it on the fly

------------------
Beware the Dynasty! Listen To Uncle!

"Together for ever, no matter how long"
-Dragonite to Flareon


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CrystalMeth
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posted 07-29-2001 01:42 PM      Profile for CrystalMeth   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I may be just an idiot, but I like grass types. If you think about it, it makes sense that grasses aren't major ass-kickers. I mean, they're just plants, have you ever been beat up by a big leafy plant? No, plant tactics are much more subtle. That's why they have so many good sleep, paralysis and poison moves. Not to mention all they're great healing moves. Plants (and subsequently grass type Pokmon) can take quite a beating. Ever try to get rid of weeds? They just keep coming back. So, I think grass types can be useful.
Plus, Hoppip is extremely cute.

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~ Crystal the Anime cat girl ~
"Maybe Poccil could start stealing some sentance structure instead of just information."
-Mu


From: Hell on Earth | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Shenlong19
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posted 07-29-2001 02:11 PM           Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i love grass, but in relation to other types, they got screwed, thats why im pissed, theyr my favs

------------------
Beware the Dynasty! Listen To Uncle!

"Together for ever, no matter how long"
-Dragonite to Flareon


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MK
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posted 07-29-2001 04:02 PM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey, I hear ya man. I like Grass types too. That's why I use Meganium even though people seem to not be for it. They pick Typhlosion or Feralagatr (forgive spelling)

Anyway, Grass, when used properly, can be strong, but, they do have a disadvantage type wise...


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The Great Dreamer
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posted 07-29-2001 06:08 PM      Profile for The Great Dreamer   Email The Great Dreamer   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mu,
Amen to that brothah...
*throws pokeball at cool quote*

Shenlong,
Nintendo only rapes...er...markets Pokemon, they don't make Pokemon except for the Stadium games, the real Pokemon games are made by Game Freak, the true enovators.

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"Stop assuming you are smarter than people who make the game, they think on a totally different level than you, break out of the fucking square you live in." -Mu

[This message has been edited by The Great Dreamer (edited 07-29-2001).]


From: Las Vegas were everyone uses Mimic & Metronome! | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Random Loser
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posted 07-29-2001 06:37 PM      Profile for Random Loser   Email Random Loser   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
biasedness (is biasdness a real word?)
No, the word you're looking for is plain old 'bias'... as for the rest of it... it was too long and I only got halfway. 'A' for effort.

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"The statement by our blunderbuss azurian is totally non valid."
-MK


From: Uni of Virginny | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Shenlong19
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posted 07-29-2001 10:04 PM           Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

tanx

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Beware the Dynasty! Listen To Uncle!

"Together for ever, no matter how long"
-Dragonite to Flareon


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White Cat
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posted 07-30-2001 03:26 AM      Profile for White Cat   Author's Homepage   Email White Cat      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Another good thing about Grass types in GSC is that most of them get a one-turn recovery move.

Shenlong19 seems to be the impatient type, waiting less than an hour before complaining that no one had responded.

defensivly
---------
strong- grass, water, thunder, rock, ground

Grass doesn't resist Rock.

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"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century."
-- Al Gore


From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mu
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posted 07-30-2001 05:14 AM      Profile for Mu   Author's Homepage   Email Mu   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Shenlong19:
i love grass, but in relation to other types, they got screwed, thats why im pissed, theyr my favs

I like my Grass too, but I think they're powerful enough as they are. In fact, I'd only ever say that one type got screwed.

Poison.

And that's only because they are weak to the two most common types, Ground and Psychic. Take out Ground and they're still good, but not over-powerfully good.

But you can't complain about these things, you live with them and learn to adapt around these weaknesses.

As I stated, Grass didn't get screwed, sure they have a lot of weaknesses, but they have the largest range of status affliction moves, healing moves and although you have to trade off effectiveness for power in their higher range moves (Petal Dance, Solarbeam and Razor Leaf) you can get around these if you really want to use that move.
(Safeguard, Sunny Day and Scope Lens)

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From: Auckland, New Zealand | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
theclaw
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posted 07-30-2001 06:41 AM      Profile for theclaw   Author's Homepage   Email theclaw   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
All of you forgot Lanturn too! It is the only water type that cannot learn any ice moves. It is weak to ground but the water attacks counter that. Grass is also the only type resistant to both water AND electric attacks. HP ice or fire would not work well.
Grass pokemon can tottally kick this guy.
In-Battle Scenario:
Battle starts
Trainer X sends out Lanturn
Trainer Y sends out Exeggutor
Lanturn uses Thunder Wave
Exeggutor charges Solar Beam
Lanturn uses Surf... Not very effective!
Exeggutor uses Solar Beam... Critical Hit! Super Effective!
Lanturn dies!

Not a very even match up! That is the right way to OHKO, forget fissure,gillotine or horn drill.

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My pokemon skills even make GODS look inferior to me!


From: Pokemon World | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mu
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posted 07-30-2001 07:51 AM      Profile for Mu   Author's Homepage   Email Mu   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How could we forget Lanturn when we weren't even discussing Water types?

Water isn't resistant to Ground, so Lanturn is STILL weak to Ground. Quagsire would have been a better example, being only weak to Grass.

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From: Auckland, New Zealand | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Shrimpy
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posted 07-31-2001 01:43 AM      Profile for Shrimpy   Author's Homepage   Email Shrimpy   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Shenlong19:
"How Grass Types got Screwed!"
Grass In my opinion has been the victim of the biasedness (is biasdness a real word?) of nintendo. if you notice it seems that nintendo is biased, example: the pikachu family, nintendos mascot, nobody reallly cared for them, i mean why should they? jolteon and zapdos were much better, right? well, nintendo changed that in Yellow, allowing for the surfing pikachu and raichu.but in g/s they really pushed the limit, they made it so you almost HAD to use pikachu, how? well, by giving him the light ball. i thought that that'd be pretty good for the little cup, but lo and behold, they made pikachu unable to compete in the little cup, thus forcing you to feel really pissed. but i didnt stop their either, have you noticed that almost every fire tpe and every electric types can benefit from raindance or sunny day? why, simople, cause sh's two best pokemon were those types, charizard and pikachu. moreover, these two had double advantage for these conditions, charizard was powered up for his fire attacks, and was protected by water and thunder attacks, and pikachu had his surf powered up. now, how is this bad for grass types? because sunny day is pretty much suicide on them with out a light screen. now on to my examples;

Uh... not to ruin some of your theories, but Ash does have 2 Grass types with him, and only one Fire type at the moment... Doesn't that mean that someone over at Nintendo must favor Grass types?

Also, you complain about Sunny Day being suicide for a Grass Pokmon, but what about Rain Dance for a Water Pokmon? The only Pokmon that doesn't suffer from that is Quagsire, and you don't see many of those Rain Dancing anymore...

You also completely miss out on the fact that a Sunny Day-ing Grass type is great bait. Sunny Day, then they switch in a Fire type, you switch to a Rock type and if they don't switch, they're pretty much dead...

quote:
vileplume- pretty much the same as bellossom, cept a worse type and uglier
Until you factor in the decent special defense it has and that you can Swords Dance then use a STAB Sludge Bomb... Not to mention it can learn Synthesis and/or Moonlight, and Sleep Powder.

quote:
vicreebel- hes purty much the same as venusaur, and similar stats too
Another potential SD STAB Sludge Bomber. It also learns Sleep Powder and can get Synthesis... Pass a Light Screen to either of these and they can be very useful...

quote:
jumpluff- i dont see the use of it cept as a annoyer
Something fast (albeit the crappy stats) that can Leech Seed & put the opponent to sleep.

quote:
giga drain- 60 base power, 90 with stab, and recovery, whhopie! thats as powerful as swift!except with 5pp
Yes, exactly like Swift! Oh wait... when was the last time Swift gave you back half the HP it took from the opponent?

quote:
synthesis/ moonlight- basiacally nintendo screwed with your mind the same way the did with solar beam
So you're bias against a set of moves that works like Recover?

quote:
powders- okay, cept toxic is better for poison, thunder wave is betta for paralysis, and the maximum turns some poke can be asleep has been lowered
So? Sleep was lowered, big deal. Fact is it still keeps the opponent from attacking me for at least a turn or so. I can't say I mind that at all.

I agree with Mu, it's the Poison types that really got the screws put to them. At least Muk, Vileplume, and Victreebel are still viable.

And just a thought, is it possible you're bias against everything that isn't a grass type? Lots of Pokmon and types have flaws -- deal with them.

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Close the world, Open the nExt.
TPPC Trainer's Corner - For A New Brand Of Strategy

[This message has been edited by Shrimpy (edited 07-31-2001).]


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StealthNinjaScyther
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posted 07-31-2001 02:41 AM      Profile for StealthNinjaScyther   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"All of you forgot Lanturn too! It is the only water type that cannot learn any ice moves. It is weak to ground but the water attacks counter that."

You forgot Crystal, Lanturn can get a nice and dandy Ice Beam. Also, the water type doesn't help much against ground type moves, the two Earthquakers I have on my team are not ground types. Earthquake is very common on non ground types, very common.

Poison types definetly got it worst. However I have to argue that Weezing is pretty decent too.

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From: Auburn, WA, USA | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
theclaw
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posted 07-31-2001 05:51 AM      Profile for theclaw   Author's Homepage   Email theclaw   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I didn't know that Lanturn could learn Ice beam in crystal. I said that water ATTACKS don't work well on grass types NOT that water types were risistant to grass! Not counting Cyrstal and Ice beam, Lanturn is very weak to grass types!!! Most ground types are so slow that they never get a chance to earthquake because they are weak to surf. I am only talking about Pokemon that get STAB from earthquake! Besides, It takes at least two earthquakes to KO Lanturn from almost any attacker that has no stat changers applied like swords dance. Again, I am not counting Critical hits or Thick Club. Very few pokemon learn both swords dance and earthquake (except Charizard and only idiots would try that). No one that still has a brain ever uses Marowak anyways. Look at the scenario in my other post. There are not very many pokemon that can use earthquake AND are resistant to both water AND electic attacks. No pure grass type can learn earthquake (It would be better for them to use grass attacks anyways). Talking about things that give grass pokemon the advantage is what this forum is for! I actully find earthquake to be EXTREMELY WEAK used by any non-ground types except Machamp! Lanturn is the other pokemon that is weak to grass. Quagsire now has a partner in losing to grass types!
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My pokemon skills even make GODS look inferior to me!

[This message has been edited by theclaw (edited 07-31-2001).]


From: Pokemon World | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Crimzonite
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posted 07-31-2001 06:04 AM      Profile for Crimzonite     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

Nintendo? I could have sworn Game Freak was responsible for Pokemon. Unless Hiroshi Yamauchi truly went senile, fired Satoshi Tajiri, and took the company for himself. ;P

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Random Loser
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posted 07-31-2001 06:43 AM      Profile for Random Loser   Email Random Loser   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by theclaw:
No one that still has a brain ever uses Marowak anyways.

You should really stop talking so much... you're making an ass of yourself. Why exactly did you go off about Lanturn anyway? This is a discussion on Grass pokemon/other types that got screwed over.

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"The statement by our blunderbuss azurian is totally non valid."
-MK


From: Uni of Virginny | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
ThumbsOfSteel
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posted 07-31-2001 07:45 AM      Profile for ThumbsOfSteel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Meganium learns earthquake, and he's a pure grass.

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How to ruin a Snorlax:
@everstone
defense curl
tackle
amnesia
harden


From: Nowhere on a normal map | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mu
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posted 07-31-2001 08:38 AM      Profile for Mu   Author's Homepage   Email Mu   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Random Loser:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by theclaw:
[b]No one that still has a brain ever uses Marowak anyways.

You should really stop talking so much... you're making an ass of yourself. Why exactly did you go off about Lanturn anyway? This is a discussion on Grass pokemon/other types that got screwed over.
[/B][/QUOTE]

The prole speaks!
Marowak sucks, plain and simple, the only place it works is against idiots and in the tightly controlled standardised (retarded as well) GSBot community that dictates so much of AH's current 'fads' in Pokemon design.

TheClaw WAS trying to make a valid point in defense of Grass types, that being that Lanturn is best taken on with Grass (or Ground) types, as is Quagsire. It deviated slightly because people were misinterpreting his point.

And you, Random Loser, I have noted your Maroproling with disdain.

The only true idiot is the one who won't step outside of his own bigotry.

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From: Auckland, New Zealand | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19

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posted 07-31-2001 10:04 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Whenever I play a game, I like to bitch about it's shortfalls, especially when they are obvious. Pokmon has always been and easy target, and this rant here has brought to surface one of my big gripes:

Fire types can, using Sunny Day, do way better than Grass Types at everything except status modifiers.

Status modifiers are really weak in Stadium (except for PAR, who electrics are better at anyway).

I've never really felt this was fair, as it gives you very few reasons to play grass types: their resistances were kind of a sham, really. It isn't like the type is strictly worse than or anything: it just isn't quite what it should be.

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-cfalcon

"WOULD YOU FUCKING STOP POSTING POKEMON CRAP HERE." -Crazed Apiom, Karp Park, Azure Heights Pokmon Laboratory


From: 3945' N, 10452' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Shenlong19
unregistered


posted 07-31-2001 10:39 AM           Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
wow, loads o replies,

anyways, i am being pessiistic about the grass, and if you notice there is very little positive comments in my report

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Beware the Dynasty! Listen To Uncle!

"Together for ever, no matter how long"
-Dragonite to Flareon


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Random Loser
Farting Nudist
Member # 1538

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posted 07-31-2001 02:59 PM      Profile for Random Loser   Email Random Loser   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mu:
And you, Random Loser, I have noted your Maroproling with disdain.

The only true idiot is the one who won't step outside of his own bigotry.


Hehe, and finally someone calls me on the pointless and baseless bashing I've been doing lately... sorry, I hang around the Pokegym a little too much. Anyway, I still feel that justifying the power of a type by naming 2 semi-moderately used pokemon that they dominate is a rather poor argument.

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"The statement by our blunderbuss azurian is totally non valid."
-MK


From: Uni of Virginny | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Donald
Bob the Builder
Member # 1551

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posted 07-31-2001 11:26 PM      Profile for Donald   Email Donald      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm shocked that no one (as of yet) has brought up the fact that this is in the wrong forum.

Try the Azure Pokemon Center for this one.

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A little sampling of my free time.
"Damn it! I leered that Umbreon twice, and Ember still isn't doing jack!!" -My brother having a newb moment.


From: In your girl's panties | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
White Cat
Nobody knows why I'm an admin.
Member # 42

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posted 08-01-2001 08:38 AM      Profile for White Cat   Author's Homepage   Email White Cat      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A couple people have touched on this issue, but I'd like to emphasize that Giga Drain should be considered to have a base power of 90 (60 damage to the enemy, 30 healing to yourself).

No one that still has a brain ever uses Marowak anyways.

O_o

If I needed any confirmation that you don't know what you're talking about...

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"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century."
-- Al Gore


From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
SDShamshel
Farting Nudist
Member # 791

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posted 08-01-2001 07:37 PM      Profile for SDShamshel   Email SDShamshel   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hmm... so you're saying Marowak, with Thick Club, having the highest attack in the game is a "bad thing?"

Golly gee, then with that line of thinking, Mewtwo sucks because it learns Recover, Kingdra sucks because it has a dual type of Water/Dragon, and Lugia sucks because it learns Aeroblast!

Hot damn!

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"It looks like this is my lucky day. I'll take 'The Rapists' for 200."
"That's 'Therapists,' not 'The Rapists.'"
-(Saturday Night Live Celebrity Jeopardy Skit)

AIM: Nobie20
ICQ: 71976989


From: Tokyo-3 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
SDShamshel
Farting Nudist
Member # 791

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posted 08-01-2001 09:47 PM      Profile for SDShamshel   Email SDShamshel   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
vileplume- pretty much the same as bellossom, cept a worse type and uglier

Now you've made me go and dislike you completely for that remark.

*waves Vileplume flag*

Vileplume is NOT uglier! *hugs Vileplume*

And worse type? That whole "Poison resists fighting" thingy is a bit useful in G/S, ya know?

------------------
"It looks like this is my lucky day. I'll take 'The Rapists' for 200."
"That's 'Therapists,' not 'The Rapists.'"
-(Saturday Night Live Celebrity Jeopardy Skit)

AIM: Nobie20
ICQ: 71976989


From: Tokyo-3 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Shenlong19
unregistered


posted 08-02-2001 12:22 PM           Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
*he breathes in stun spore* haha

------------------
Beware the Dynasty! Listen To Uncle!

"Together for ever, no matter how long"
-Dragonite to Flareon


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Gloomboy
Farting Nudist
Member # 462

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posted 08-02-2001 01:58 PM      Profile for Gloomboy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
*Envisions Shenlong19 have epilitic spasms and fevers like Ash and Tracey did in "A Stun Spore Detour*

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[Sig deleted due to absurd length.]


From: San Antonio, Texas | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Turbo X
Farting Nudist
Member # 1808

posted 08-02-2001 04:29 PM      Profile for Turbo X     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Gloomboy:
*Envisions Shenlong19 have epilitic spasms and fevers like Ash and Tracey did in "A Stun Spore Detour*


Yea..that would be funny. But damn, 56 posts in the 1st week?? Damn!! (and no, I'm not talking about Gloomboy either).
It must be all the team-listings

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I'm too lazy to make a sig.


From: N-town, PA, U.S. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ryuujin
Farting Nudist
Member # 572

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posted 08-02-2001 04:34 PM      Profile for Ryuujin   Author's Homepage   Email Ryuujin   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Shenlong19:
i love grass, but in relation to other types, they got screwed, thats why im pissed, theyr my favs

(I just happened to be passing by Azure to see how things had changed, couldn't help but comment on this topic)

Well, I love Dragon types, and can you imagine how I felt when it turned out that Dragon moves were special based?, what the hell were Nintendo smoking? - if you think Grass types are hard done by just give a thought to the dragons...

...Glaring weaknesses, stats in the wrong place to do any STAB worth mentioning, luckily the relativly good staying power of them, and wide range of TM/HM/Breeding moves, have meant that they have applications outside of STAB attackers (for example hazer Draggy).

Likewise Grass have applications outside of those you were pointing too (ie. a well-set-up Parasect can hurt badly if there is no sleep clause in place). I'm no expert at G/S (I've never even played it) - but I'm sure there are applications for them that just havn't been found yet - creatures like Eggy and Chansey only became popular after R/B/Y had been out for 2 years already, some of the best movesets take time to appear, and when they do the weirdest creatures come out into the limelight.

-Ryuujin signing off...
(Might see you in another year ^_^ )

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Yes! One less fag on my PBS!
-TeeJay


From: Depths of hell (South West England) | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Shenlong19
unregistered


posted 08-02-2001 04:56 PM           Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
hmmm

------------------
Beware the Dynasty! Listen To Uncle!

"Together for ever, no matter how long"
-Dragonite to Flareon


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Atma
Farting Nudist
Member # 689

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posted 08-02-2001 05:36 PM      Profile for Atma   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by theclaw:
(1)Very few pokemon learn both swords dance and earthquake (except Charizard and only idiots would try that).

(2)No one that still has a brain ever uses Marowak anyways.

(3)There are not very many pokemon that can use earthquake AND are resistant to both water AND electic attacks.

(4a)No pure grass type can learn earthquake
(4b)(It would be better for them to use grass attacks anyways).

(5)I actully find earthquake to be EXTREMELY WEAK used by any non-ground types except Machamp!


(1)Due to Lanturn's inferior stats, Charizard can do over 400 damage befpoe being taken out by thunderbolt or surf. And if you switch in Lanturn against a standard Belly Drumming Charizard, you will get flattened by 689-810 damage before you can get off a single attack.

(2) Actually, if you bothered to look at GSbot, you'd see that lots of good players use Marowak.

(3) Ever hear of Snorlax? Or perhaps Tauros, Miltank, or Machamp? All four are popular earthquakers.

(4a) Meganium learns Earthquake.
(4b) But I guess your meganium would stick with Giga Draining or SolarBeaming an enemy Arcanine.

(5) Anyone wanna make wagers on whether a single Curselax can obliterate this guy's whole team?


...gotta love being Charizard, when I flame people I have STAB on it >

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"My name is Atma...
I am pure energy... and as ancient as the cosmos.
Forgotten in the river of time...
I've had an eternity to ponder the meaning of things...
And now I have an answer..."


From: Cinnabar Isle, Long Island, NY | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Random Loser
Farting Nudist
Member # 1538

Member Rated:
posted 08-03-2001 01:04 AM      Profile for Random Loser   Email Random Loser   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Turbo X:
Yea..that would be funny. But damn, 56 posts in the 1st week?? Damn!! (and no, I'm not talking about Gloomboy either).
It must be all the team-listings

It's all the bumps..

Mr. K: If you don't stop bumping all yer damn threads, I'm gonna bump you right on outta here...

{next post) Shenlong19:[i] bump

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"The statement by our blunderbuss azurian is totally non valid."
-MK


From: Uni of Virginny | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
SDShamshel
Farting Nudist
Member # 791

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posted 08-03-2001 01:26 AM      Profile for SDShamshel   Email SDShamshel   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
(5)I actully find earthquake to be EXTREMELY WEAK used by any non-ground types except Machamp!

You know that Tyranitar thingy? So you're saying that despite Tyranitar having a HIGHER attack rating than Machamp, its Earthquake is weak?

How about Ursaring, who equals Machamp in the attack department?

------------------
"It looks like this is my lucky day. I'll take 'The Rapists' for 200."
"That's 'Therapists,' not 'The Rapists.'"
-(Saturday Night Live Celebrity Jeopardy Skit)

AIM: Nobie20
ICQ: 71976989


From: Tokyo-3 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Shenlong19
unregistered


posted 08-03-2001 08:53 AM           Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ya know, fur a topic made by r noobiy, things here thing has durn purty well

hurhurhurhuhruhruhruhrhur

------------------
Beware the Dynasty! Listen To Uncle!

"Together for ever, no matter how long"
-Dragonite to Flareon


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Turbo X
Farting Nudist
Member # 1808

posted 08-03-2001 10:28 AM      Profile for Turbo X     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Random Loser:
It's all the bumps..

[b]Mr. K: If you don't stop bumping all yer damn threads, I'm gonna bump you right on outta here...

{next post) Shenlong19:[i] bump

[/B]


You missed it by one post. Damn, so close too.

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[Sig deleted due to absurd shortness]


From: N-town, PA, U.S. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mu
Farting Nudist
Member # 28

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posted 08-03-2001 11:09 AM      Profile for Mu   Author's Homepage   Email Mu   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Atma:
(2) Actually, if you bothered to look at GSbot, you'd see that lots of good players use Marowak.

Nice work Atma, I believe that was his POINT.

quote:
(3) Ever hear of Snorlax? Or perhaps Tauros, Miltank, or Machamp? All four are popular earthquakers.

Again, nice work.
He said, and I quote, "There are not very many pokemon that can use earthquake AND are resistant to both water AND electic attacks."
Of which, none of the ones you have named qualify.

quote:
(4a) Meganium learns Earthquake.

Again, this falls under "Not many," sorry to say but you haven't exactly made a point, only proved his.

quote:
(4b) But I guess your meganium would stick with Giga Draining or SolarBeaming an enemy Arcanine.

Oh yes, this was a very subtle way of calling them stupid. Apart from the fact that you'd STILL have to be a fucking idiot to try taking on Arcanine with a Meganium, you might have made a point.

quote:
...gotta love being Charizard, when I flame people I have STAB on it >

It's a shame you aren't Onix, then your jokes might ROCK

(joke intentionally bad to rub in the horrible quality of the first joke)

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+Contact Info for Harrassment+
ICQ - Ghostlight - 86476913
AIM - Corpselight Wisp

[This message has been edited by Mu (edited 08-03-2001).]


From: Auckland, New Zealand | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
SDShamshel
Farting Nudist
Member # 791

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posted 08-03-2001 11:29 AM      Profile for SDShamshel   Email SDShamshel   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But he said "No grass types learn Earthquake," not "Only a few grass types learn Earthquake.

I think I'll compare how grass types got supposedly "screwed" by comparing it to RBY Rhydon.

Rhydon, for a while, was considered one of the worst Pokemon, due to its 2, count 'em 2 4x weaknesses. After a while, people realized that the key to using Rhydon was to be a tad unorthodox, to switch constantly, despite the annoyance of switch wars to unseasoned battlers. Rhydon filled a certain niche, and it did it well.

Grass Types, strategy-wise, cannot go the way of Psychics, Normals, Electrics, or just about any of the other types in the game. They fill the role of support with occasional attack, and they do it nicely. To try to make them all-out attackers or sweepers or anything of the sort is not playing to their strengths for the most part. There are a few exceptions, such as Victreebel, but there'll always be exceptions.

------------------
"It looks like this is my lucky day. I'll take 'The Rapists' for 200."
"That's 'Therapists,' not 'The Rapists.'"
-(Saturday Night Live Celebrity Jeopardy Skit)

AIM: Nobie20
ICQ: 71976989


From: Tokyo-3 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Velox
Farting Nudist
Member # 913

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posted 08-03-2001 12:54 PM      Profile for Velox   Author's Homepage   Email Velox   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
>>Apart from the fact that you'd STILL have to be a fucking idiot to try taking on Arcanine with a Meganium, you might have made a point.

Hey, I'd take Arcanine on. If my Meganium had already used Swords Dance twice. And if it had Earthquake. And if Arcanine was the one switching in. ^_^;

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-Mysterious Priest Velox


From: Philadelphia, PA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Shenlong19
unregistered


posted 08-03-2001 01:38 PM           Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
god this is prolly the lngest topic someone has made on their first post

------------------
Beware the Dynasty! Listen To Uncle!

"Together for ever, no matter how long"
-Dragonite to Flareon


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CrystalMeth
Farting Nudist
Member # 1485

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posted 08-03-2001 04:09 PM      Profile for CrystalMeth   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ok, you started out alright. You attempted to be intelligent and started an interesting debate, but now your just being an annoying asshole. In short:

SHUT THE FUCK UP, SHENLONG!!

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~ Crystal the Anime cat girl ~
"Maybe Poccil could start stealing some sentance structure instead of just information."
-Mu


From: Hell on Earth | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mu
Farting Nudist
Member # 28

Member Rated:
posted 08-03-2001 05:20 PM      Profile for Mu   Author's Homepage   Email Mu   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
PKB CrystalMeth.

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+Contact Info for Harrassment+
ICQ - Ghostlight - 86476913
AIM - Corpselight Wisp


From: Auckland, New Zealand | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Shenlong19
unregistered


posted 08-03-2001 06:07 PM           Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
what did i do? i dont wanna piss anybody off, tell me and ill stop

------------------
Beware the Dynasty! Listen To Uncle!

"Together for ever, no matter how long"
-Dragonite to Flareon


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Ancient Egyptian Cat-Gonk
Happy Good Times Fortune Happiness Happity Hocks Cat-Gonk Happifier
Member # 14

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posted 08-04-2001 09:20 AM      Profile for Ancient Egyptian Cat-Gonk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Marowak sucks, plain and simple, the only place it works is against idiots and in the tightly controlled standardised (retarded as well) GSBot community that dictates so much of AH's current 'fads' in Pokemon design.
[/QUOTE]

Hey , care to explain why?

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t-gk: NvêVasTrR
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
D !iv n GdDsh?
@iM: CatGonk | !r: Tourmaline | I<Q: 83851495
tH3 Ktt l1Ttr )(: --[ http://catgonk.cjb.net ]--

<MrCoffee> Cuz it's the cool thing to do.
<_LugiaStorm_> It's the CAT-GONK thing to do.


From: Perth, Western Australia. | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Bartlebee
Farting Nudist
Member # 1778

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posted 08-04-2001 06:59 PM      Profile for Bartlebee   Email Bartlebee   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Shenlong, I'm just going to say this one more time: You need to learn to shut the hell up. 'Tard.

- - - - -
[Wang deleted due to absurd length.]

From: Your mom's ass | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged


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