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Author Topic: [Ethics] What's in a Name?
DocMui
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posted 01-19-2001 01:47 PM      Profile for DocMui   Author's Homepage   Email DocMui   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hello, people! I recently had my Silver game die on me (ironically, as I was backing it up with a Mega Memory card). Well, I wasn't too pleased at having lost credit for 240 critters after 190 hours.

Fortunately, I'd been playing Gold, so some of my critters survived. I'd like, however, to start again with the same ID # I had (I've since memorized my time-change password), and you know what *that* entails...

Yup, I'm seriously considering getting a Gameshark. Not, mind you, to shark Electrodes w/Spore or TMs...just to get my old # back so that I don't have to contend w/the boost. That makes me feel like "Oh, you're Doc, but you're not *really* Doc because of the trainer #."

My big question is...is this *one* application of Gameshark ethical?

--DocMui

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To claim mastery is to imply that there is nothing else to learn. Thus, I shall never be a Pokemon Master, since there's *always* something to learn.


From: Hoffman Estates, IL USA | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
ImmortalFreezer
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posted 01-19-2001 04:45 PM      Profile for ImmortalFreezer   Author's Homepage   Email ImmortalFreezer   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Definately. Anything that does not cause your final Pokemon to exceed normal limts within the game is ethical IMO. More of a timesaver than anything else.

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Sig coming Feb. 2001!
(June 2002 if Nintendo makes it)


Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged
Yay Porygon
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posted 01-19-2001 07:07 PM      Profile for Yay Porygon   Author's Homepage   Email Yay Porygon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I agree. ^_^ Anything done in the game (yet not through glitches) should be fine and dandy. And is to me.

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Oy.


From: Peregrine Island | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
DragoniteJ
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posted 01-19-2001 10:58 PM      Profile for DragoniteJ   Author's Homepage   Email DragoniteJ   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's fine with me.

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You may know me as Booster6th. Please visit my website at http://lanturn.cjb.net
Even if you could fart through your nose, why would you want to?


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Lark84
My skeleton is made of creamy nougat.
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posted 01-20-2001 05:31 AM      Profile for Lark84     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Yay Porygon:
I agree. ^_^

So do I. IMO, sharking TM's, moves that a pokémon can naturally learn, levels, and full stat EXP is just a time saver. However, sharking DV's I consider cheating, as for sharking Spore on Electrode (for example).

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A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head.

I'll get my 5 way max Vileplume some day!


Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Datax
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posted 01-26-2001 12:10 AM      Profile for Datax   Email Datax   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lark84:
So do I. IMO, sharking TM's, moves that a pokémon can naturally learn, levels, and full stat EXP is just a time saver. However, sharking DV's I consider cheating, as for sharking Spore on Electrode (for example).

No offense, but...

This is the most twisted and flawed piece of blatant rationalization I have ever seen. It is not just a time saver; you would not be willing to sit through the 20+ hours it would take to train any given pokemon up to max stat exp and level 100, so you do not deserve such a pokemon. Even if it WERE "just a time saver," how is sharking DV's not? Theoretically, you'll obtain any combination of DV's (including max stats) if you look long enough, so isn't it simply even more of a time saver to shark max DV's?

What I see here is someone who wants to be the best but doesn't want to take the time to earn that title legitimately, and thus resorts to flimsy rationalizations to justify cheating.

Yes, I know my words will have no impact; the lure of instant power-pokes is much too strong for those with weak wills. Nevertheless, I think it necessary for someone to state the truth, loudly and unmistakeably: Anything with gameshark is cheating. Period. If owning an unsupported game-altering device gives you an advantage over someone who doesn't own it, using it is blatant and unjustifiable cheating.

Yes, it'd be nice to shark back an ID code, but what about the four hundred people who have experienced the same thing and resisted temptation or couldn't afford a shark? Why should they be disadvantaged by your easy recovery?

Some food for thought.

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-Datax

It takes balls to catch pokemon


Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Lark84
My skeleton is made of creamy nougat.
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posted 01-26-2001 10:34 AM      Profile for Lark84     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Datax:

What I see here is someone who wants to be the best but doesn't want to take the time to earn that title legitimately, and thus resorts to flimsy rationalizations to justify cheating.

I don't shark, if that's what you think. I just think that others who want to shark those things can do it, because I consider it a time saver. Hey, I've spent a week now catching monsters, and it's paying off. Got my for-way-max Geodude yesterday. I'm going to train them myself. I can't afford a shark. Or maybe I can, but I don't think it's ethical to shark. I wouldn't do it, but if others want to it's fine with me, as long as they keep within what's doable in the actual game (no electrode with spore). I want to be the best, and I have spent hours to be just that. And since I am willing to sit through al the hours of catching and training such a pokémon, I do deserve it. I don't want to start a flame-war with you, I'm just correcting things I never said in my previous post, that made you think I sharked. However, (and you can flame me as much as you want for this), I do multiply TM's, stat boosters etc. so I can be somewhat free when I design a new team. I have certain "rules" for this, I don't use the same TM twice in a team, for exampe. Although that would be good some times.

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A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head.

I'll get my 5 way max Vileplume some day!


Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
DocMui
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posted 01-26-2001 01:32 PM      Profile for DocMui   Author's Homepage   Email DocMui   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Datax:
No offense, but...

This is the most twisted and flawed piece of blatant rationalization I have ever seen. It is not just a time saver; you would not be willing to sit through the 20+ hours it would take to train any given pokemon up to max stat exp and level 100, so you do not deserve such a pokemon. Even if it WERE "just a time saver," how is sharking DV's not? Theoretically, you'll obtain any combination of DV's (including max stats) if you look long enough, so isn't it simply even more of a time saver to shark max DV's?


Actually, the max stats and/or DV's doesn't apply to me. I have no interest in doing so.

quote:

Yes, I know my words will have no impact; the lure of instant power-pokes is much too strong for those with weak wills. Nevertheless, I think it necessary for someone to state the truth, loudly and unmistakeably: Anything with gameshark is cheating. Period. If owning an unsupported game-altering device gives you an advantage over someone who doesn't own it, using it is blatant and unjustifiable cheating.

Perhaps I should regale you with exactly what happened:

Yes, I restarted my Silver game and sharked my Trainer ID #, so that all the critters I would catch from there on would have my old #.

A point I should make: I had precisely three Pokemon with my old trainer # on my Gold cartridge before my Silver went pif: Delibird, Phanpy, and Ledian--none of them, mind you, developed to god-like proportions. My Lugia? Gone. My kick-butt Ampharos? Toast. In fact, all my good critters are gone. In every respect except the trainer ID#, I am starting over.

quote:

Yes, it'd be nice to shark back an ID code, but what about the four hundred people who have experienced the same thing and resisted temptation or couldn't afford a shark? Why should they be disadvantaged by your easy recovery?

Some food for thought.


Easy? If you've read the above, it's anything but easy. Truthfully, I'm deriving little benefit except having my old ID# back--that, and being able to use my time-change password once I get enough $. :grin:

I messed around with GS codes from the Net. Sure, it was amusing to give Bruce, my Dratini, Pokerus and stuff it with stat boosters--but it got old fast. Using the Gameshark for infinite $, etc., just wasn't my style, so I turned the game off without saving. My brother has my GS, and he's enjoying his Metal Gear Solid game with infinite ammo.

(In the future, you may want to refrain from saying how many people did such and such, etc. I'm sure there were more than 400 people who were "tempted" by the prospect of the power that the Gameshark gave them, considering the number of Sharks and Pokemon cartridges sold. Don't throw out numbers that you can't back up--otherwise, people who are less civil and more inclined to pounce than I am would verbally skewer you.)

That said, I do appreciate your opinion (after all, I did ask) and your principles. My four other games (RBY & Gold) are free of any instances of Gameshark. This one instance, however, will probably not affect my tournament eligibility since (1) only my Trainer ID# was affected and not any items directly pertaining to the status/abilities of my critters and (2) the critters that were from my Silver cart that are now on my Gold cartridge weren't all that great anyway in terms of stats, so I really have no advantage.

Thanks to everyone who replied,

--DocMui

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To claim mastery is to imply that there is nothing else to learn. Thus, I shall never be a Pokemon Master, since there's *always* something to learn.


From: Hoffman Estates, IL USA | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Dragonite21
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posted 01-26-2001 02:54 PM      Profile for Dragonite21     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What's in a name?

Letters.

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-Dragonite21

Furret is very Furretish


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Atma
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posted 01-30-2001 12:55 AM      Profile for Atma   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by DocMui:
Hello, people! I recently had my Silver game die on me (ironically, as I was backing it up with a Mega Memory card). Well, I wasn't too pleased at having lost credit for 240 critters after 190 hours

You suck. And you just don't get it, do you? Using ANY game-enhancing device is cheating, whether it's a gameshark, xploder, mega memory card, or something else. Cheaters DESERVE to have their games deleted -- think about that the next time you plug in your mega memory card.

-- Atma, who hates cheaters

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"My name is Atma...
I am pure energy... and as ancient as the cosmos.
Forgotten in the river of time...
I've had an eternity to ponder the meaning of things...
And now I have an answer..."


From: Cinnabar Isle, Long Island, NY | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
White Cat
Nobody knows why I'm an admin.
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posted 01-30-2001 04:22 AM      Profile for White Cat   Author's Homepage   Email White Cat      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How is the Mega Memory Card cheating?

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"I failed ninth grade three times, but I don't think it was necessarily 'cause I'm stupid."
-- Eminem


From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 01-30-2001 04:41 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You can use a Mega Memory Card to cheat, but you're nuts if you don't have one.

Hardware failure is not part of the game.

I haven't needed my clones, but I'm happy they're there. I keep many copies of my team, just in case something happens to my game pak.

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"...interesting things happen along borders -- transitions -- not in the middle where everything is the same." -Neal Stephenson


From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
1970Beetle
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posted 01-30-2001 01:37 PM      Profile for 1970Beetle   Author's Homepage   Email 1970Beetle   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I totally agree. A Mega Memory card would have saved me 90+ hours and 140+ Pokemon if I would have had one when my Silver just decided to reset itself one day. If you thinking backing up your game is cheating Atma, that's fucked up. You'd be bitching too if your Pokemon cart just erased itself one day.

And furthermore, I think GameShark is sweet. I do own one, and although I use it sparingly anymore, I don't think I've ever "cheated" with it. I never, EVER, changed a monsters stats. I never gave any Pokemon a move it couldn't learn naturally or via TM. The most I did with it, and still do, is give Pokemon back moves I should have kept in the first place, or use it to remove HM's (like Cut on Charizard) I used when I first started playing. I don't see anything wrong with that either. It's not "cheating." It's just covering your ass. And for those uses of GameShark, you'd never even know unless I told you. Prove me wrong...

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Please visit my site and register as a Pokemon Trainer. http://www.tbns.net/poketrainer/home.html
Thanks to everyone who has registered.


From: Pittsburgh, PA | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
DocMui
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posted 01-30-2001 10:14 PM      Profile for DocMui   Author's Homepage   Email DocMui   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Atma:
You suck.

If I were using a vacuum cleaner, I'm sure I would. If I threw my Game Boy against the wall after five minutes of play, I'm sure I would. If I were a newbie who believed in the Pokegods, I would deserve to be called that.

However, none of these apply. :P

[QUOTE] [/B]
And you just don't get it, do you? Using ANY game-enhancing device is cheating, whether it's a gameshark, xploder, mega memory card, or something else. Cheaters DESERVE to have their games deleted -- think about that the next time you plug in your mega memory card.

-- Atma, who hates cheaters

[/B]


Going by the letter of the law for NOA's tournaments, a Mega Memory Card isn't mentioned, nor should it be. It is a backup device, not an enhancement device. There is no clause in the NOA tournaments where you could not use unmodified critters from previously-saved games where your game has been hosed.

BTW, you may wish to read my previous post on the sum total of my Gameshark experience if you wish to make an informed response. While I appreciate your integrity, extremist knee-jerk responses like the one you've posted will do little except raise the frustration level on this board. Think before you type.

And as for having deserved to have my game erased, that is subjective and biased. Let he who would not cringe at the thought of losing so many critters and so much time on a cart give their response.

Thank you,

--DocMui

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To claim mastery is to imply that there is nothing else to learn. Thus, I shall never be a Pokemon Master, since there's *always* something to learn.


From: Hoffman Estates, IL USA | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
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posted 01-31-2001 05:44 PM      Profile for Psybro   Email Psybro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Atma, nobody likes somebody who constantly tries to preach their own beliefs to others.
I thought that was why you didn't like Christianity?

From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Rolken
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posted 02-03-2001 09:36 PM      Profile for Rolken   Author's Homepage   Email Rolken   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Datax:
[BYes, it'd be nice to shark back an ID code, but what about the four hundred people who have experienced the same thing and resisted temptation or couldn't afford a shark? Why should they be disadvantaged by your easy recovery?[/B]

Yes, it'd be nice to eat, but what about the hundreds of crazed monks who have experienced the same thing or couldn't afford food? Why should THEY be disadvantaged by your easy avoidance of hunger? (That's right, they aren't... but changing IDs really IS harmful! No, really!)

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"I don't pretend to have all of life's answers, but I do pretend to be a spaceman."
-Jack Handley


From: Provo, UT | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
oporaca
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posted 02-04-2001 03:58 PM      Profile for oporaca     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Atma:
Cheaters DESERVE to have their games deleted -- think about that the next time you plug in your mega memory card.

Ahem -- he was NOT using the MegaMemory card to cheat. And, it was not the MegaMemory card which was causing the game to be deleted. If the batteries on your game ran out during a save, your game would/could be deleted, even though you were not cheating. Theoretically, it is no more cheating than turning your game off without saving (e.g. in order to catch a Legendary).

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...
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Mick_Hale
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posted 02-22-2001 08:18 AM      Profile for Mick_Hale   Email Mick_Hale   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Atma, you're turning into another Fanha. Do you really want that? Imposing your views on the public and having people hate you? Fanha did the same damn thing with his ideas on Mewtwo. I mean all offence when I say this.

DocMui, check out Sakaki Tower. Ethics debate here. I don't think we mentioned sharking ID and name, but I have nothing against it. I stick to the one thing: use your GS as a timesaver, but as long as you don't use it to give yourself overpowered pokémon with all max stats and illegal moves. Essentially, if you can get it in the game, then you can shark it with a shark. With the exception of max dv and stats. I would shark my ID if I lost everything but had my pokémon stored.

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"I don't know what WW3 will be fought with, but WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones" - Albert Einstein


From: Thornhill, Ontario, Canada | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged


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