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Author Topic: Mewtwo's Cheapness Revisited
White Cat
Nobody knows why I'm an admin.
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posted 06-09-2000 06:41 AM      Profile for White Cat   Author's Homepage   Email White Cat      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm not sure which forum is the best one for this subject, but since most of the recent debate on it has been in Arena, I'll post it here.

The main argument I want to address is the one that compares Mewtwo to the Queen in chess, and since everyone gets them, they're perfectly fine to use. However, there are several key flaws in this analogy. A more accurate one would be as follows:

You're playing chess. However, instead of fighting with all your pieces, you need to pick three different ones to battle. Obviously, you're going to pick the Queen as one of them, right? Now pretend that something about the Queen's abilities makes it virtual suicide to use a Rook or a Knight. This leaves the choices of King, Bishop, and Pawn to fill the other two slots. Kinda ruins the point of picking a team, doesn't it?

If Mewtwo is allowed, a three-Pokemon team will almost always consist of a standard Mewtwo, a standard anti-Mewtwo, and a standard anti-anti-Mewtwo. A team with six members is slightly better, but you'll still probably just double the number of anti- and/or anti-anti- Pokemon and only get one reasonably original Pokemon moveset.

People argue that Mewtwo isn't cheap because there are certain ways to beat him. Sorry, that doesn't cut it. When the whole team selection process revolves around Mewtwo strategies, counter-strategies, and counter-counter-strategies, the fun factor becomes a fraction of what it should be.

Mewtwo is one of the worst examples of game imbalance in video game history, and that is why he should be banned.


From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
starCaliber
is evil and also MewtwoSama
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posted 06-09-2000 12:08 PM      Profile for starCaliber   Email starCaliber   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You got it!
From: San Francisco, CA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Kobayashi
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posted 06-09-2000 02:30 PM      Profile for Kobayashi     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I see pokemon more like Rock,Paper,Scissors. But Mewtwo is like a big tank or something which can wipe out them 3.

If you have Mewtwo and Mew in play then you HAVE to pick them if you want to win. If your playing 6 on 6, that means you have 2 places chosen for you. Then you'll need at least one pokemon to counter-mewtwo, another place taken, and maybe a counter-counter-mewtwo. That leaves just 2 places out of the 6 for orignal pokemon, which will just be pull from the usual suspects of pokemon.

The point i'm trying to make is that half of pokemon is picking your team, if you have mewtwo and mew in it then that job is already done for you.

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"I don't hate the man, but I pity the fool" - Mr. T


From: Palestine | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Rolken
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posted 06-09-2000 08:53 PM      Profile for Rolken   Author's Homepage   Email Rolken   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yah; most 6-pick teams I see consist of the birds, Mew + M2, and a starter or Snorlax.

Bah.

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Get a new car for your wife. It's a great trade.


From: Provo, UT | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
SpaceDog
I AM A DUMB PERSON GNUUUUUUHHHH
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posted 06-10-2000 03:16 PM      Profile for SpaceDog     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Fanha:

These strategies do work, but they rely too much on luck and coincidence. Killing mewtwos isn't necessarily impossible, but the sacrifice needed to take them out will screw you in the long run. Also, you're forgetting that all of these strategies can be countered by the right moves Mewtwo can learn. I'll exlain further:

1. Use Thunder Wave. A lot. Works on anything. Gives you extra hits when you need them.

That's usually my first option, but it doesn't always work that way. If your opponent sees an electric paralyzer, he can just switch out to a ground type and make you waste a turn. And if your non-electric paralylzer gets taken out earlier in the match, you have no way to paralyze the bastard unless you have THREE guys with thunder wave. That's not fair IMO. Also, Mewtwo can negate that with Subsitute(in stadium).

2. Use a kamikaze or two. They're fun to play, and blow the Mewtwos away!

This is my general strategy for killing them, but like I mentioned before, it takes its toll in the long run. If you sacrafice your Golem, you lose your main electric-type killer. If you sacrafice an Exeggutor, there goes your main sleeper and Ground-resister. The only pokemon I wouldn't miss much would be Snorlax or Mew, but not everyone has them on their team. Again, in order to be a great Kamikazee killer, you need to use specific pokemon that might not fit in with your style. And again, I call it unfair. Don't forget that Mewtwo can counter possible suicide pokemon by using either Subsitute, Double team, or Barrier. Those moves aren't too common, but they can be used.


3. DO NOT focus your entire team on special attacks. Using all Slowbro, Exeggutor, Snorlax w/ Amnesia/Ice Beam, and the like is varied, but you need to go after physical damage, too. It's equally as important to diversify between types as it is to diversify between physical and special attacks; THIS IS THE BIG ONE THAT PEOPLE DON'T SEEM TO GET.

Unfortunately, most physical attackers are weak to Mewtwo's attacks. Ground types fall to Blizzard, Ice beam, or Solar Beam. Fighters fall to psychic. Normal types have the best shot at dealing damage, but most don't have a good enough special to go up against an Amnesiac Mewtwo. Chansey can, but it doesn't have enough attack power to do anything. Snorlax is the only real possibility, and his speed is a major liability. And again, having to use a specific pokemon to take out another is just plain cheap. And Mewtwo can always boost his defense up with Barrier.


4. Don't poison or Toxic. They just aren't worth it.

Agreed.

5. Play at least 1 guy with Amnesia (Snorlax, Slowbro, Mewtwo, etc.) and usually one guy with Swords Dance (usually Mew). This gives you two huge powers in different styles of damage to hit a Special or Defense weakness mattering upon the opponent.

Again, having to choose 1 of 3 pokemon to put on your team isn't fair. If you don't want to use one of them, you shouldn't have to.

6. Don't be a poor sport. Everyone gets swept, even by non-DTing, non-Amnesiaing guys sometimes. I've been nearly swept by a lucky Lapras with Confuse Ray, even with Mewtwo and Mew.

Being swept by luck doesn't bother me much. I have the worst luck possible. =P


7. Be quick when dealing with Mewtwo/Mew. Go for quick, high damage attacks, and deny powerup time. With Mewtwo, go STRAIGHT for physical attacks; special attacks can become useless. Paralyzing is crucial.

I agree with this also, but it doesn't always work. Sometimes your paralyzers get killed, and if the enemy mewtwo has thunder wave, you don't gain a speed advantage. Barrier also destroys this strategy.


If you try the above, Mewtwo, as well as any other Pokemon, shouldn't be a major problem. I don't have trouble with them, and if I don't, and we're playing the same game, that means you can learn to not have trouble with them. Adapt, grow, develop; that's what it's all about!


Personally, I feel devoting half of your team to killing one pokemon makes the game cheap and unenjoyable. I'd rather use the pokemon I want to use, dammit! And don't forget, Mewtwo can counter ANY anti-mewtwo pokemon if given the right moves. He's cheap. Plain and simple.

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[This message has been edited by SpaceDog (edited 06-10-2000).]


From: Laurel, MD | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
starCaliber
is evil and also MewtwoSama
Member # 268

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posted 06-10-2000 07:50 PM      Profile for starCaliber   Email starCaliber   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thank you SpaceDog. Very eloquently put.

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"It's like the bastard lovechild of Tekken and Virtua Fighter."
-EGM, on Dead or Alive 2 for Dreamcast


From: San Francisco, CA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
TeeJay
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posted 06-10-2000 09:23 PM      Profile for TeeJay     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by SpaceDog:
you have no way to paralyze the bastard unless you have THREE guys with thunder wave. That's not fair IMO.

What do you mean it's not fair? Thunder Wave is an incredibly valuble asset, not just for Mewtwo. Give a Starmie Thunder Wave and Surf and watch it fly.

Again, in order to be a great Kamikazee killer, you need to use specific pokemon that might not fit in with your style.

Would you rather lose one Pokemon or many? Besides, if ya ask me, anything for a Mewtwo is good. I mean, think, if you knock out their Mewtwo, you are one Mewtwo up on them. It's like in chess when you still have your Queen and the opponent doesn't... sweet.

Unfortunately, most physical attackers are weak to Mewtwo's attacks. Bleh falls to bleh...

I'm gonna tie this in near the end of the post, cause it goes along with something else.

Again, having to choose 1 of 3 pokemon (Slowbro, Snorlax, or Mewtwo) to put on your team isn't fair. If you don't want to use one of them, you shouldn't have to.

All of those are great Pokemon, and I wouldn't leave home without one anyway. You make it sound like they utterly suck and you're forced to put one in your team. Heck, I would love to be forced to put one of those in... especially Snorlax.

1. (Up above)

2. I agree with this also, but it doesn't always work. Sometimes your paralyzers get killed, and if the enemy mewtwo has thunder wave, you don't gain a speed advantage. Barrier also destroys this strategy.

3. Mewtwo can counter ANY anti-mewtwo pokemon if given the right moves.

Ok, all of these tie together. You keep mentioning all these different moves that can counter your Pokemon. Ok, think real hard. No, you're not thinking hard enough. Think HARDER. How many moves can a Pokemon have?
4.
Now, lets break this down. A regular Mewtwo should have a healing move, Recover or Rest. If they don't, then they shouldn't a hassle anyway.
3 left.
Ok, now we need a defensive move. Amnesia is a favorite. So is Double Team and Barrier. If a Mewtwo doesn't have any of these, he's a pushover.
2 left.
I counted 4 offensive moves that you mentioned. Psychic, Blizzard, Ice Beam, and Solar Beam. Let's throw out Blizzard cause it's the same as Ice Beam. I'd better mention Thunder Bolt to make it fair.
Psychic, Ice Beam, Thunder Bolt, Solar Beam.
There you have it. Now, these moves could easily counter another Pokemon. Solar Beam isn't too efficient, though, due to the one turn delay. But, we only have 2 moves left to make up the decent Mewtwo. Are you telling me you have a team of all Ground types, or all Water types? Better not. You claim that Mewtwo can counter anything, when given the right moves. You hit the nail on the head there.

It can't be given all those moves, so you are definitely gonna have some Pokemon that aren't weak to the Mewtwo, which will be able to blast him. He has Psychic/T-bolt? Whip out your Exeggutor. He has Ice Beam/Solar Beam? Whip out a Lightning, Fire, or Normal type. He can't counter them ALL. And you don't have to specify all your Pokemon to counter him, either. A Snorlax with Body Slam could mess with everyone, not just Mewtwo, like you make it seem. A Starmie with T-wave and Surf could mess with everyone.

He's cheap. Plain and Simple.
WRONG! Next time think harder before you say something like that.



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Insert sig here.

TeeJay
ICQ:13724101
AIM:daBIGTom
e-mail:dabigtom@yahoo.com


From: Overland Park, Kansas, USA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Argo
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posted 06-10-2000 10:57 PM      Profile for Argo   Email Argo   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Listen Fanha......

There are physical attacks...but guess what?not ONE physical attack in the game,cannot kill mewtwo in a single hit.There is always preparation.

Mewtwo will most likly have 2 amnesia's up...2 turns is nothing

Guess what a STAB fully amnesia'ed psychic can deal?

Combined with bolt,for the freezing platforms and toby's....that IS unstopable...

People are using 5 WAY MAX MEWTWOS...HOW CAN YOU,IN YOUR RIGHT FREGGIN MIND,NOT CALL THIS CHEAP...I DO NOT WANT TO SPEND HALF OF MY FREGGIN TEAM OVER A SINGLE POKEMON,AND HAVE A TANK TAKE DOWN THE REST OF MY TEAM...THIS IS FOR FREGGIN FUN...

Sorry about the caps...but i am extremely pissed...

Thats right....FUN....not for fun SPOILING....


NO MEWTWO

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AIM:Argothian Wurm
"Ditto! use your special of 2 to launch an overpowering psychic blast!"
-cfalcon

"It's gonna be a Psybro!"
-Ash

-Argo


From: new york,NY,USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Biffster
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posted 06-11-2000 12:52 AM      Profile for Biffster     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Why do you think that nintendo is making bug type stronger in G/S? If they thought that mewtwo was fair then they would have left bug where it was.

quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. K:
I'm beginning to think you just don't know what you are talking about.

TeeJay, you make me angry when you throw your weight around here.

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"I finally figured out how to slow that mo-fo down."
Me while using the fly by wire rocket in Perfect Dark.

[This message has been edited by Biffster (edited 06-11-2000).]


From: Viridian City (On the road at least) | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
MewtwoSama
Asshole
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posted 06-11-2000 01:20 AM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Argo:

Combined with bolt,for the freezing platforms and toby's....that IS unstopable...


There was once this guy I faced almost a year ago. He had spent the whole day kicking ass. At the end of the day, he faced me. My Mewtwo (I think I had the Grep moveset) could have wiped out his WHOLE team, but I played with him and used a ToxicSeed Egger, Dragonite and Starmie.

A few months later, he comes back with "RuffRider"
Amnesia,Recover,T-bolt,Psychic were the moves of his new Mewtwo.
I didnt use Mewtwo myself and still beat the guy.
Very far from unstoppable. Even in the hands of someone good.

quote:

People are using 5 WAY MAX MEWTWOS...HOW CAN YOU,IN YOUR RIGHT FREGGIN MIND,NOT CALL THIS CHEAP...I DO NOT WANT TO SPEND HALF OF MY FREGGIN TEAM OVER A SINGLE POKEMON,AND HAVE A TANK TAKE DOWN THE REST OF MY TEAM...THIS IS FOR FREGGIN

I dont call that cheap. I'd rather have everyone else use Mewtwo that good.

My teams are designed to kick ass.
That means they not designed to take out specific Pokemon. Just kick ass.

I stopped using Mewtwo just to make things harder for myself. This makes the battle field somewhat even against most of the people I've faced at Poke-events.

If I meet someone who I think can offer a good challenge, I'll call on Mew/two to even the playing field. Use your best against the best. But that's a rare occasion.

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AIM: MewtwoSama
Rejoice that I honor you with these words, rubbish!
Bow before my magnificence and might, and I may spare you when my time arrives.
But only if it pleases me to do so!


From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
SpaceDog
I AM A DUMB PERSON GNUUUUUUHHHH
Member # 35

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posted 06-11-2000 01:23 AM      Profile for SpaceDog     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TeeJay:

What do you mean it's not fair? Thunder Wave is an incredibly valuble asset, not just for Mewtwo. Give a Starmie Thunder Wave and Surf and watch it fly.

You have to realize that during battles, you tend to lose some pokemon. Even if you have 2 paralyzers, they might not live long enough to even SEE the Mewtwo. If the battle is running late, and you and your opponent are down to about 2 or 3 pokemon each, you might not have a Paralyzer left. And again, Mewtwo can counter with subsitute. And surf won't do JACK to an amnesiac mewtwo.


Would you rather lose one Pokemon or many? Besides, if ya ask me, anything for a Mewtwo is good. I mean, think, if you knock out their Mewtwo, you are one Mewtwo up on them. It's like in chess when you still have your Queen and the opponent doesn't... sweet.


I said earlier I think it's cheap to be forced to use specific pokemon, and you just helped my point. So in order to have an advantage against a Mewtwo user, you have to have a Snorlax/Mew AND a Mewtwo of your own? That's 1/3 of your team right there....

All of those are great Pokemon, and I wouldn't leave home without one anyway. You make it sound like they utterly suck and you're forced to put one in your team. Heck, I would love to be forced to put one of those in... especially Snorlax.


I already went over this. Being FORCED to use pokemon to even stand a chance makes the game boring and repetitive. Snorlax isn't in my team's style, and I don't want to be forced to use one just to stand a shot at winning. Same goes for Slowbro and Mewtwo.

Ok, all of these tie together. You keep mentioning all these different moves that can counter your Pokemon. Ok, think real hard. No, you're not thinking hard enough. Think HARDER. How many moves can a Pokemon have?
4.
Now, lets break this down. A regular Mewtwo should have a healing move, Recover or Rest. If they don't, then they shouldn't a hassle anyway.
3 left.
Ok, now we need a defensive move. Amnesia is a favorite. So is Double Team and Barrier. If a Mewtwo doesn't have any of these, he's a pushover.
2 left.
I counted 4 offensive moves that you mentioned. Psychic, Blizzard, Ice Beam, and Solar Beam. Let's throw out Blizzard cause it's the same as Ice Beam. I'd better mention Thunder Bolt to make it fair.
Psychic, Ice Beam, Thunder Bolt, Solar Beam.
There you have it. Now, these moves could easily counter another Pokemon. Solar Beam isn't too efficient, though, due to the one turn delay. But, we only have 2 moves left to make up the decent Mewtwo. Are you telling me you have a team of all Ground types, or all Water types? Better not. You claim that Mewtwo can counter anything, when given the right moves. You hit the nail on the head there.

It can't be given all those moves, so you are definitely gonna have some Pokemon that aren't weak to the Mewtwo, which will be able to blast him. He has Psychic/T-bolt? Whip out your Exeggutor. He has Ice Beam/Solar Beam? Whip out a Lightning, Fire, or Normal type. He can't counter them ALL. And you don't have to specify all your Pokemon to counter him, either. A Snorlax with Body Slam could mess with everyone, not just Mewtwo, like you make it seem. A Starmie with T-wave and Surf could mess with everyone.

Ah, but this is one thing that makes mewtwo so deadly: his versatility. Unless you know your opponent personally, you will NOT know what moves his mewtwo has. It could have ice beam, it could have psychic, it could have thunderbolt. But you DONT KNOW. And by the time you figure out just what the hell it has, it may have the chance to take out 2-3 of your pokemon. You may send out chansey only to find it hit by a hyper beam. You may send out Exeggutor to see it blasted by a blizzard. And your slowbro could be on the receiving end of a Thunderbolt before you know what hit him. You could see Mewtwo throw up a subsitute right before paralyzing it, or even worse: right when you use selfdestruct or explosion. You never know what to expect when you see a Mewtwo, and that's what makes them so deadly.

Also, the Mewtwo's moves don't have to be super-effective against EVERY type you come around. Sure, you could send out an electric or a fire type, but really, what can they do? Those types revolve around the special stat, and most can't even compare to Mewtwo's 400+ special. Mewtwo can take on just about any electric or fire type in the game without having to use attacks that are super-effective against it. Even without Amnesia. And I already went over the normal types, all non-snorlaxes are easy enough to counter.

And no, I never have a problem with body slamming snorlaxes or surfing Starmies. Those are MUCH easier to counter than a Mewtwo. Especially the Starmies.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Mewtwo is cheap. Simple as that.

[/B]



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From: Laurel, MD | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Sneakerton
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posted 06-11-2000 01:36 AM      Profile for Sneakerton   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey everyone i'm new on this forum but i have been reading what's going on here. I'm no pokemon newbie if that's what you're asking. You people who keep trying to hang onto mew and mewtwo for dear life disturb me. particularly fanha and that t.j. character. You two should be loaded up into a rocket together, and blasted off to a gay island where you can just use Mewtwo and Mew all the time and have your own little tournaments. my buds and I never use mew or mewtwo and we have some of the most fun pokemon battles ever.

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Come on, try to catch me. Catch me if you can.


From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Sneakerton
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posted 06-11-2000 02:29 AM      Profile for Sneakerton   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Fish, i don't mean to piss you off, but those two particular fellows (teejay and fan-guy) get on my nerves more and more as i read their posts.

who is big gulp? does he work for 7 eleven?

Fish, i don't want to not be able to get along with you. don't hate me too bad plz :-(

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Come on, try to catch me. Catch me if you can.


From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Fish
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posted 06-11-2000 02:36 AM      Profile for Fish     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Good god, you have posted a lot in the last hour!!
Anyway, just dont waltz in and banish two guys I respect to gay island.

Everyone has their opinions, and as we know, they are going to stick to them.

So, I propose an end to this damn squabble.

And also, welcome to Azure!

(oh yeah...Big Gulp=newbie forever, I think I made him leave, though...oops..)

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"California is the Japan of America." -Jim Webber (aka VaporeonsHaze) on how there are a high number of respected trainers residing in California


From: Phoenix, AZ | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Gloomboy
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posted 06-11-2000 03:03 AM      Profile for Gloomboy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I agree,we should close this topic right now. People,there is no way you are going to get these others convinced that Mewtwo isn't a threat - they are paranoid.

The reason this whole friggin' argument started up was because someone cried "Let's ban Mewtwo from the tournaments! He's cheap!" There is no way you are gonna convince these paranoid idiots otherwise,because they feel that Mewtwo ruins the fun of a tourney.

Also,if they are running tourneys,they have the right to set their own rules,so no M2 if you go play with them. Sorry.

At least they don't have a say in setting official tournaments,and you'll never see them in Nintendo tourneys because all the people there use M2. I like Mewtwo because he is the coolest-looking psychic Pokemon(but Mew's the cutest psychic!),so I agree with Fanha and TeeJay that Mewtwo is cool,but I will not waste my time defending M2 because these weirdos(Spacedog and such) believe that he's sick and that's that.

Let's worry more about other Pokemon,like Slowbro(which I am not a big fan of...) than
something everyone will eternally divided on.

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"C.J. used SUPER ROD!"
"Not even a nibble!"
- Fishing for Dratini in the Safari Zone


From: San Antonio, Texas | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Enter Your Name Here
Farting Nudist
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posted 06-11-2000 11:23 AM      Profile for Enter Your Name Here   Email Enter Your Name Here   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think it's funny how, whenever me or Mewtwo Sama post to a "Mewtwo is cheap!" thread, we get ignored.

::rant mode ON!::

People, if you're so pissed about Mewtwo's existance, play Poke Cup. Otherwise, shut your mouths and play in a Mewtwo-infested enviorment (I know I spelled that wrong...). It's a simple as that. Banning Mewtwo in Prime just makes it a Poke Cup where everyone's L100.

And if you're too wimpy to find a good level divide for Poke Cup, you're probably too wimpy to be playing Pokemon on a competitive level, anyway.

::rant mode OFF!::

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--EYNH

"AZURIAN defeated RPGAMER!"


Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
TeeJay
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posted 06-11-2000 05:45 PM      Profile for TeeJay     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well said, every bit of it.!

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Insert sig here.

TeeJay
ICQ:13724101
AIM:daBIGTom
e-mail:dabigtom@yahoo.com


From: Overland Park, Kansas, USA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Peelium
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posted 06-11-2000 06:17 PM      Profile for Peelium   Email Peelium   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, well said Fanha.

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Quantum Mechanics: The dreams stuff is made of.


From: Edinburgh, UK | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Sneakerton
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posted 06-11-2000 07:43 PM      Profile for Sneakerton   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
sorry if you dont like me Fanha, but you gotta admit that you and teejay flying off to a gay island is a kinda funny idea

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Come on, try to catch me. Catch me if you can.


From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Enter Your Name Here
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posted 06-11-2000 08:05 PM      Profile for Enter Your Name Here   Email Enter Your Name Here   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Damn straight, Fahna.

I'm glad someone notices me.

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--EYNH

"AZURIAN defeated RPGAMER!"


Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Argo
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posted 06-11-2000 11:58 PM      Profile for Argo   Email Argo   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
First,to teejay..

Well..some people LIKE certain pokemon..and DISLIKE certain pokemon....i LIKE to use my favorites...and they are NOT mewtwo killer....see,because for some extremely strange reason...i like to have FUN in this game...no..not win....have FUN...

All mewtwo users,are just power hungry...they may THINK they are having fun..and using their elite strategy by clicking the A button and puching the arrow buttons to select amnesia twice in a row,and any attack after that to take down a whole team..but no..they are power hungry bastards.They get high off the win....i dont care if i win or lose,i like to use pokemon which i will have tons of fun using...like Arbok,Lickitung..and oddities.

Wouldnt you be happy if your beedrill beat a pokemon?i sure would...no pokemon "sucks"..not even ditto or magikarp..My Arbok HAS defeated a amnesia'ater mewtwo..but it was PURE luck..luck,exactly why EVERY mewtwo killer must have.I dont like basing my strategy on luck...unless it's something like a one hit KO...

Why should i replace three of my beloved's to defeat ONE silly pokemon...WHY ARE YOU DEPRIVING ME OF HAVING FUN IN THIS GAME....WHY!!??

No..it isnt about skill...its about luck and preference.

><

Isnt this tourney about having fun?

Its definatly not proving which board is more skilled...or better at the game,especially with PBS involved...its about which player gets luck with his ice beam and freezes that guy,or who hits their one hit KO enough to sweep the rest of the team...

Like i said...mewtwo is for "win freaks"...and it completely UN-BALANCES the other enjoyment seeking players.

I think,the people with the REAL "bad skills" are the people who have to resort to cheapasstwo just to help them take out those 2-3 pokemon..so the restcan be swept..

Pff..these are only my opinions,and i mean no offense by them.

><

------------------
AIM:Argothian Wurm
"Ditto! use your special of 2 to launch an overpowering psychic blast!"
-cfalcon

"It's gonna be a Psybro!"
-Ash

-Argo


From: new york,NY,USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Argo
Farting Nudist
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posted 06-12-2000 12:02 AM      Profile for Argo   Email Argo   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I sorta discussed the 4-way board tourney there...sorry for going off topic

;p

------------------
AIM:Argothian Wurm
"Ditto! use your special of 2 to launch an overpowering psychic blast!"
-cfalcon

"It's gonna be a Psybro!"
-Ash

-Argo


From: new york,NY,USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
SpaceDog
I AM A DUMB PERSON GNUUUUUUHHHH
Member # 35

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posted 06-12-2000 12:04 AM      Profile for SpaceDog     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Fanha:

Thunder Wave GUARENTEES that their speed is below yours, and it is the highest accuracy possible. Physical attacks, as long as you calculate the damage and know how much you can do, just involve planning. Of course, the WHOLE GAME OF POKEMON is mainly LUCK. Freezing, sleep, total paralysis, one-hit KOs, which 6 you pick, what your opponent has, critical hits; it all comes down to LUCK.

You're forgetting that if Mewtwo knows thunder wave as well, it can protect Mewtwo from this speed reduction. And of course this game is based on luck, but Mewtwos require even MORE luck to beat. I never have to get lucky to beat a Charizard, or even a Dragonite for that matter. And if you're up against a lucky Mewtwo user, you might as well put your head between your knees, and kiss yo' ass goodbye.


1. They're losing their Mewtwo; that's the worse sacrifice THEY could EVER make, assuming its their "powerhouse"!

Not necessarily. If I used a Mewtwo, I wouldn't use it as a tank that sets up for "clean sweeps". I'd use it somewhat as a support pokemon. Instead of supporting my other pokemon by inflicting status effects on my opponent, it would support them by doing damage while they switch to counter. In fact, I wouldn't even bother with a defensive move besides recover. If I lost my Mewtwo I wouldn't really mind, as long as he did his job of weakening most of my opponent's team. The rest of the match would be a breeze.


2. I'm assuming that you're thinking Mewtwo with Amnesia in everything here. If he doesn't, he's just any other Pokemon with a high-end stat; he doesn't have the "super-power" to KO most Pokemon in 1-2 hits. I assume Recover or Rest; otherwise he's VERY easy to KO. That leaves 2 moves. If he has Thunder Wave, Substitute, Double Team, etc., there's only ONE attack move left. This means if they're using one of the above, they can only hit with ONE type of attack; ANY team should be able to muster a Pokemon with a resistance to any of Mewtwo's attacks (Psychic: Starmie, Slowbro, Exeggutor, Solarbeam: Exeggutor, Thunderbolt:Exeggutor, or a Ground type, Ice Beam: Lapras, Slowbro, any other Water type). At that pointm, assuming you PROBABLY are looking at Slowbro (Mewtwo w/ Solarbeam as only attack are easy to PP out, and Thunderbolt you can just send out a Ground). He has Amnesia; he can defend against the "super-powered" Amnesia attack. Then you can run it out of PP, or attack it directly, or anything like that.

I already went over this. The process of "finding" which moves the mewtwo has can be fatal. He can take out a few pokemon by the time you find out what it knows. And you don't need Amnesia to be super-powered with a 400+ special and moves that are super-effective against almost every common type. If you can get super-effective attacks off, it only takes 1-2 turns to kill almost anything.

MANY non-Electric Pokemon can learn Thunder Wave.

But how many are actually usefull? There's Starmie, Slowbro, Alakazam, Clefable, and Chansey. The rest suck.

The infamous Tobybro is great for killing Mewtwo, and he has no trouble with Ground types.

Not if the Mewtwo has thunderbolt. =P

Thunder Wave is useful against ANY Pokemon excluding Ground Pokemon, and your opponent may not even have any. If you're afraid they might, try using Raichu as a lead, then Surf instead of Thunder Wave to lure out a Ground and kill it early. If they don't send it out, they probably don't have one.

Nobody's stupid enough to fall for that. Well, smart players aren't. Raichus with surf are quite common.


And switching out a Mewtwo isn't the favorable thing to do in most battles.

Again, if I used Mewtwo, I'd switch him out like crazy. I'd get a free hit, then switch out to something that gives me an advantage against their counter. It works like a charm at wearing your opponent down.


And now you're going into a whole 'nother realm calling Thunder Wave cheap...are you just disturbed by the whole concept of anything that could screw up your team?

Eh? I don't recall saying Thunder Wave was cheap. But, it's cheap to have to have it on half of your team due to one pokemon.


Oh, boo-hoo, you might lose a Pokemon! You're complaining about losing all your Pokemon to Mewtwo, yet you don't want to give up ONE of them to stop it! That seems rather hypocritical.

You're right, I DONT want to lose my pokemon. When you've got a well-balanced team, being forced to sacrafice a team member throws that balance off. It makes the rest of the match an uphill battle to make up for the new weaknesses in your team. And just about every pokemon in the game can be taken out without having to lose one yourself. Mewtwo is the only pokemon I can think of that will nearly always kill at least 1 pokemon on your team, no matter what you do. That's CHEAP.

Here's something interesting: Mew with Explosion, Swords Dance, Horn Drill, Thunder Wave. Start Horn Drilling them if they give you extra turns! I can GUARENTEE you they'll either get KOed, switch, or do something drastic. Once again, nothing forced on the team, just somethign cool I thought I'd mention.

That actually is a pretty interesting Mew. Not necessarily for Mewtwo's, but interesting nontheless. No one would see it coming, and countering it would take a few turns.


Is it just me, or do you have "polymovoMewtwophobia", or fear of Mewtwos with tons of skills that you battle in your dreams but they have EVERYTHING to counter everything you do and you have NO way to beat them. One Mewtwo can't do it all. See the moveset limitation thing.

I went over this about 6 times already....


Go ahead, don't, it's just a suggestion! Of course, just because I don't want to use status effects doesn't mean I should be able to play just as well without them; you seem to be VERY picky...you're saying you don't want Swords Dance, Amnesia, Thunder Wave, Explosion, Selfdestruct, physical attacks with Snorlax, or using up slots on your team. Kinda limits your playing scope of effective attacks, doesn't it?

I never said I didn't WANT them. Mewtwo is just the only pokemon that you NEED those moves for in order to stand a good chance.


And sure, Mewtwo in general can counter any Pokemon in the game, but that polymovoMewtwophobia seems to overtake you; ONE MEWTWO CAN'T HAVE THEM ALL. A Mewtwo that's going to be able to work effectively against you (meaning Amnesia and Recover, generally) will have TWO attacks MAX. Just design a balanced team, and you should have something to counter most on your team naturally. And a Mewtwo without Amnesia really isn't ANYTHING big; the attacks should do damage, but not THAT huge of damage short of a CH. Hyper Beam can't even take advantage of Amnesia anyhow, so I wouldn't worry a lot about it.

I never said mewtwo was totally uncounterable. But, in order to beat one, you have to put the WHOLE TEAM to work. It's not like you're up against a Jolteon and you can send your Rhydon out to counter it. It's a long process that usually ends up with your team weakened, and it gives your opponant an advantage for the rest of the match on. Which is why I think Mewtwo is cheap. If your opponent has one and you don't, you're automatically at a disadvantage. It throws the balance of the game off completely. And there's not another single pokemon in the game that can do that.


Without Amnesia, you're not even looking at one-turn KOs. You should have plenty of time to deal lots of damage, inflict status effects, etc. Just because they aren't as high as him doesn't mean they can't take a couple hits.

He doesn't need 1-turn KOs to be effective. While you switch around like crazy trying to counter the Mewtwo, he can do some major damage to your team. Especially if your opponent catches on to your switching pattern.


Two words: Grow up. If you want to argue, argue; put-downs are another thing altogether. I'm not here to put down anyone or anything, I'm here to debate a point. If you can't control yourself in a debate, maybe you should either not debate or learn some social skills. I don't take anything anyone says here personally about Mewtwo and Mew, but when they say it about me for arguing about them, I do take it personal because it's trying to attack me, not my point, which is immature and pointless, considering I'm not the type to blow up at stuff like that.

I agree with every word here. I hate immaturity, especially when it makes my side look bad.


In closing, as long as people stick to the debate and don't insult the debators, I'd really like to continue this. If anyone holds hard feelings over debate points, then they can leave; I don't keep grudges over arguements.

[/B]


SpaceDog's final thought:

Actually, I think we've debated too much on this. We're all getting too off-topic. I mean, even if EYNH had a point to his message, it had nothing to do with whether or not mewtwo is cheap. Just saying something like "Mewtwo is cheap? Too bad. Deal with it." doesn't prove either of our points. It just detracts from the original argument IMHO.

Also, I just don't think we'll ever get anywhere with this debate. We've pretty much decided on whether or not we feel Mewtwo is cheap or not. I think the real difference between us is that we all have a different definition of "cheap". And that is all based on opinion. No amount of debate can change that. I think that's all I have to say on this matter. Thanks for listening, this really has been a nice debate. Take care of yourselves, and each other. *cheesy music plays*

[This message has been edited by SpaceDog (edited 06-12-2000).]


From: Laurel, MD | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Argo
Farting Nudist
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posted 06-12-2000 12:06 AM      Profile for Argo   Email Argo   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Proof to justify my theory:

This quote was taken from the topic named,"My battle with Dave"

quote:
Go Articuno (him)
Go Mewtwo (me, cheap I know but I wanted to win)


-Mew's Dad

He wanted to "win"....so it means,to definatly win...you should use mewtwo?

Look how this cheapass excuse for a pokemon is spoiling these poor trainer's minds..

Pfffff

><

------------------
AIM:Argothian Wurm
"Ditto! use your special of 2 to launch an overpowering psychic blast!"
-cfalcon

"It's gonna be a Psybro!"
-Ash

-Argo


From: new york,NY,USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Enter Your Name Here
Farting Nudist
Member # 57

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posted 06-12-2000 12:23 AM      Profile for Enter Your Name Here   Email Enter Your Name Here   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's funny, Argo. You call Mewtwo cheap, yet getting someone to fight your battles for you isn't? You know what I'm talking about, don't try to deny it.

Anyway, I believe this is what, the 6th time I've posted this?

PLAY GOD DAMN POKE CUP IF YOU THINK MEWTWO IS CHEAP.

And about all Mewtwo users being "power hungry", I use him only as clean-up, if at all. See, some people are actually good enough, not only to fight their own battles, but take down Mewtwos with out their own.

And Argo, I don't care if you or anyone else thinks Mewtwo is cheap, as long as you play Poke Cup instead of trying to ban him from Prime, which is, besides the level divide, the only difference between Poke and Prime.

*watches as he gets ignored YET AGAIN...*

------------------
--EYNH

"AZURIAN defeated RPGAMER!"


Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
MewtwoSama
Asshole
Member # 12

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posted 06-12-2000 12:35 AM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Enter Your Name Here:
See, some people are actually good enough...
...take down Mewtwos with out their own.


YAWN...Pokemasters drivel...YAWN...

From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Argo
Farting Nudist
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posted 06-12-2000 01:03 AM      Profile for Argo   Email Argo   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Fish151PKMN:
Well, Argo, if you are so pumped about this tourney, then dont YOU want to win?
But if you want to have FUN, you are going to get an ass-kicking.

Go in with Arbok and your crap-happy crew.
This is a big event from what you make it out to be.
Doesn't it mean something to you?


First....how do you know the rest of my team,and how can you judge it by calling it crappy?

And...i'd say a arbok isnt much better then a koffing....or a hitmonlee...so are you also calling Mr. K's team a "crap happy crew"?

And who said i want to beat azure so much..and im so.."pumped" for this tourney..i call it excited..it will be lots of FUN...something mewtwo users THINK they get when they use their cheapasses,and get their winning "high".

Once,someone said..its not all about winning..and whoever he/she was..they were right.

Basketball cannot be compared to pokemon,players make millions of dollars on the results of the games...

If you HATED mewtwo...and had a pokemon match come up,where if you won...you got a million bucks..would use you mewtwo?

The answer is obvious..

------------------
AIM:Argothian Wurm
"Ditto! use your special of 2 to launch an overpowering psychic blast!"
-cfalcon

"It's gonna be a Psybro!"
-Ash

-Argo


From: new york,NY,USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Sneakerton
Farting Nudist
Member # 513

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posted 06-12-2000 01:41 AM      Profile for Sneakerton   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i do have valid arguments teejay, and here they r
how would you stop a mewtwo with
ice beam
amnesia
recover/rest
thunderbolt

tobybro wont do the trick, and neither will exeggutor. come on, i wanna hear this. it should be good

------------------
Come on, try to catch me. Catch me if you can.


From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Biffster
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Member # 269

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posted 06-12-2000 01:41 AM      Profile for Biffster     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't think that any opinions are going to be changed.

Poké is dumb. Levels are advantages...

Hmmm... lets take the best from every pokemon and put it into one.
1)lets take the high special from Moltres and boost it up
2)the speed from jolteon
3)defense from tauros
4)amnesia was stolen from snorlax
5)Clefable relinquished its move compatibility
6)Rhydon's HP
7)The coolness factor from magikarp
8)Alakazam's type

Let's Call it MEWTWO!!!!!

It looks like the only thing that is bad for mewtwo is its rep. Don't say that mewtwo has worse defense than other pokemon, because the only higher defense pokemon are shit. ....onix.....cloyster.....kabutops...

This post wont be so easy to counter, like in doa2

------------------
"I finally figured out how to slow that mo-fo down."
Me while using the fly by wire rocket in Perfect Dark.


From: Viridian City (On the road at least) | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
SpaceDog
I AM A DUMB PERSON GNUUUUUUHHHH
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posted 06-12-2000 01:59 AM      Profile for SpaceDog     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sneakerton: A chansey would be able to own that Mewtwo. You could also try a suicidal snorlax or mew, but that's too risky IMO. Chansey is a nightmare to any specialist.

------------------


From: Laurel, MD | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
MewtwoSama
Asshole
Member # 12

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posted 06-12-2000 02:08 AM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sneakerton:
i do have valid arguments teejay, and here they r
how would you stop a mewtwo with
ice beam
amnesia
recover/rest
thunderbolt

tobybro wont do the trick, and neither will exeggutor. come on, i wanna hear this. it should be good



Chansey and Snorlax

I think Teejay was using that Mewtwo against Fanha, yet Fanha had no problem against. W/O using his Mewtwo mind you.

Actually, Amensia Mewtwo arent hard to tackle if you prevent them from powering up. Toby and Eggers can do that via status changers.(T-wave, SleepPowder, StunSpore)
Fanha prefers using Physical damage to take them down.

------------------
AIM: MewtwoSama
Rejoice that I honor you with these words, rubbish!
Bow before my magnificence and might, and I may spare you when my time arrives.
But only if it pleases me to do so!


From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
SpaceDog
I AM A DUMB PERSON GNUUUUUUHHHH
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posted 06-12-2000 02:39 AM      Profile for SpaceDog     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ya know, all this talk about Mewtwo has made me want to design one of my own. I wouldn't use it, but I still thought it'd be fun anyway. How about:

-Blizzard/Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Body Slam/Hyper Beam
-Recover

Blizzard/Ice beam is for Exeggutors and a basic freeze move, Thunderbolt is for Tobys and water types in general, and Body Slam/Hyper beam is for those chanseys that bug me so much. Recover is there for obvious reasons.

Remember, this is being designed to go with my current team, and this is going with MY style. And my style involves switching 900 times per match. =P So, I ditched all the setup moves (sub, amnesia, etc), because he won't be staying in to fight very long. When your opponent is trying to kill you as soon as possible, it's not a good idea to stick around and let him do it.

This Mewtwo is designed to capatalize on one thing: Free hits. He's designed to weaken my opponent's pokemon when they switch, and make the rest of the match easier for the rest of my team. His main target are support pokemon. Since most people will go straight for their paralyzers, Mewtwo will get off plenty of free hits when they switch to their supporter. And by the time they take Mewtwo down, their team will be weakened significantly. I like it.

Heh, what's funny is that I got the idea after a PBS match with Fanha. His lucky f'in mewtwo used nothing but blizzard, blizzard, and selfdestruct, and it took out half my team. Including my only 2 T-wavers.

And TeeJay, weren't you done with this discussion? =P

------------------


From: Laurel, MD | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
SpaceDog
I AM A DUMB PERSON GNUUUUUUHHHH
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posted 06-12-2000 04:23 PM      Profile for SpaceDog     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Heh, that switch to Exeggutor in the 2nd was actually accidental, I assure you. I meant to go straight to Jolteon to try and paralyze the basnich, but that didn't work anyway(damn CHs). And since the Mewtwo wasn't paralyzed, my 2 exploders (who were weak to blizzard) had no chance in hell of kamikazee-ing before getting taken out.

And the reason I switched to golem in the first match was to try and explode before dying. I thought for some reason Golem could survive 1 blizzard(he usually does from every non-ice pokemon in the game.) Guess I'll have to use the damage calculator more often. Ah well, I still won the match. I'm proud of my team for doing so well against those odds.


quote:

*cough*paralysis*cough*.

I woulnd't let my Mewtwo get paralyzed. It's not that hard, just switch out to either a ground type or something that's ALREADY paralyzed. That's how I use my chansey, as a status-effect magnet. Once he's been hit by 1 T-wave, all of the rest end up hitting him too. It makes your opponent waste turns. And since all but 1 non-electric paralyzers use special-based attacks, they won't be able to do much damage to chansey at all. If I see a clefable, though, I'll be in a bit of trouble.

------------------


From: Laurel, MD | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Biffster
Farting Nudist
Member # 269

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posted 06-12-2000 05:11 PM      Profile for Biffster     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't want to read year long posts.

If mewtwo is sooooo counterable, why would you use it.

------------------
"I finally figured out how to slow that mo-fo down."
Me while using the fly by wire rocket in Perfect Dark.


From: Viridian City (On the road at least) | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
TeeJay
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Member # 265

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posted 06-12-2000 05:22 PM      Profile for TeeJay     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Because he's not as counterable as the others, but counterable nonetheless.

You have been seeing numerous strategies going over ways to kill Mewtwo. Would you like me to do the same with all the other Pokemon, because I most certainly could find many ways to counter every Pokemon in the game, making them all sooooooooooo counterable.

There, that wasn't too long, was it?

------------------
Insert sig here.

TeeJay
ICQ:13724101
AIM:daBIGTom
e-mail:dabigtom@yahoo.com

[This message has been edited by TeeJay (edited 06-12-2000).]


From: Overland Park, Kansas, USA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Biffster
Farting Nudist
Member # 269

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posted 06-12-2000 05:27 PM      Profile for Biffster     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
BTW, TeeJay, you are a brat.

------------------
"I finally figured out how to slow that mo-fo down."
Me while using the fly by wire rocket in Perfect Dark.


From: Viridian City (On the road at least) | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Argo
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Member # 49

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posted 06-12-2000 05:39 PM      Profile for Argo   Email Argo   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Biffster:
I don't want to read year long posts.

If mewtwo is sooooo counterable, why would you use it.


EXACTLY...

Fanha...you may have said some respect is lost in these debates....but respect is also gained.

And which one of you mewtwo defenders compared taking down a mewtwo to taking down a dragonite?

Pff,dont even think about it...ice is SO popular....dragonite dies to two god damn aurora beams from whatever..and EVERYONE has ice on their team...a mewtwo is PSYCHIC...the most RESISTANT type in the game...his HP goes OVER 400...HE LEARNS FREGGIN BARRIER TO COUNTER PHYSICAL ATTACKS...NOT TO MENTION RECOVER...AND EVERY ELEMENT AVAILABLE by TM...

This pointless bickering is NOT changing ANYONE'S opinions...we each have our limits of cheapness...and some people dont have any limits to playing fair game AT ALL...

And scince the majority wants to have FUN at the tourney....mewtwo WILL be banned...


------------------
AIM:Argothian Wurm
"Ditto! use your special of 2 to launch an overpowering psychic blast!"
-cfalcon

"It's gonna be a Psybro!"
-Ash

-Argo


From: new york,NY,USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Haste2
Farting Nudist
Member # 518

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posted 06-12-2000 05:53 PM      Profile for Haste2   Author's Homepage   Email Haste2   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by StarCaliber:
You got it!

Agreed!

------------------
Haste2, the hastiest of them all!

How do I put in an email address with the UBB code without saying the email address as the link?

Don't email me!


From: SLC, UT, US | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
AtomicMew
Farting Nudist
Member # 41

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posted 06-12-2000 05:57 PM      Profile for AtomicMew     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You guys are distorting the facts.

1)Mewtwo is cheap and is the best in the game.
I don't see any argument here.
2)Mewtwo will be banned in the 4 way board tourney.
Sorry, but it will! Too bad.
3)Since mewtwo is cheap, that makes mewtwo users cheap too.
Why would you want to be called cheap?


I have a slight problem with mew, but I guess I can LIVE with him. I'm already disgusted by the sudden uproar of mewtwo users, contradicting THE already known, ASSumed fact, that mewtwo is cheap, and should not be used.

However, there is no argument whether mewtwo should be banned or not. I'm sorry, he already is. I suggest we move on to mew. Should he be banned or not?

------------------
AIM: ShyftZ
-Atomic Mew


Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Argo
Farting Nudist
Member # 49

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posted 06-12-2000 06:38 PM      Profile for Argo   Email Argo   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TeeJay:
And scince the majority wants to have FUN at the tourney...

First, fix your spelling. Second, I DO believe that this was started to see who was the best board, not which board has the most fun. You wanna have fun, don't get involved in a tournament. Log on to PBS randomly thoughout the day and fight people. That's how you have fun, not arguing your ass off to get a rule set so YOU can have "FUN."


[/B]


Boy Teejay....Biffster what certainly correct by calling you a BRAT...

You're gonna stoop to the incredible low of trying to tell me to correct my spelling?Only extremely pathetic people who cant find ANYTHING else wrong with a person do that..

*BIG respect drop*

We made this tourney...to HAVE FUN,OUR rules....we can vote if you like,because we believe in fairness,and have pity for you and your mewtwo using posse...because we know that you have to stoop the the low of mewtwo himself just to assure your "win high"...

Pff...truly pathetic...


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AIM:Argothian Wurm
"Ditto! use your special of 2 to launch an overpowering psychic blast!"
-cfalcon

"It's gonna be a Psybro!"
-Ash

-Argo


From: new york,NY,USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Gloomboy
Farting Nudist
Member # 462

Member Rated:
posted 06-12-2000 06:51 PM      Profile for Gloomboy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Peelium:
Do you really think M2 is cool, Gloomboy?

I thought he was a right ugly bastard.


Well,maybe to you. To me,he's cooler-looking
than Alakazam(come on,Alakazam looks OLD!)
and Hypno(an anteater-man! :P),so it's a
matter opinion. When G/S come out,I'll go
with Espeon instead since that psychic Eevee
looks really awesome!

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"C.J. used SUPER ROD!"
"Not even a nibble!"
- Fishing for Dratini in the Safari Zone


From: San Antonio, Texas | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
AtomicMew
Farting Nudist
Member # 41

Member Rated:
posted 06-12-2000 07:04 PM      Profile for AtomicMew     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
TJ, you are a fuk. I respect any other argument except yours.
<b>
He would be cheap if he were unstoppable. He is far from that.</b>

This is YOUR ASSumption too.
Is this part of "assumalottastuffolism"? NO!
This is part of iamastupidbratwholikestorapemewtwoanddoesn't
playfairlyandcouldn'tbeatanyoneevenforhisfat
mommyslifeunlesshehadhismew/twoolism.

I don't see why you can't just take mewtwo out. Since we banned mewtwo, we DON'T have him "at our disposal". So thus, using mewtwo is unfair. Get rid of him now.

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AIM: ShyftZ
-Atomic Mew

[This message has been edited by Mr. K (edited 06-13-2000).]


Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Biffster
Farting Nudist
Member # 269

Member Rated:
posted 06-12-2000 07:14 PM      Profile for Biffster     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I just beat a mewtwo team verse my mewtwoless team on pbs. It feels great to win that way. Go ahead, brats, use mewtwo.

I dont want to spend the time to pick out all the wrong things in other posts.

Thanks for the support Argo.

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"I finally figured out how to slow that mo-fo down."
Me while using the fly by wire rocket in Perfect Dark.


From: Viridian City (On the road at least) | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Fish
Farting Nudist
Member # 267

Member Rated:
posted 06-12-2000 08:44 PM      Profile for Fish     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Biffster:
BTW, TeeJay, you are a brat.

Why is that, Robbie?
Because he's got you beat?
Because he is right?

Go TeeJay!

Why does everyone have a problem with TeeJay?
Is it because he can back his argument with logical thought, and you can't?
Seems that way to me.
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"California is the Japan of America." -Jim Webber (aka VaporeonsHaze) on how there are a high number of respected trainers residing in California

[This message has been edited by Fish151PKMN (edited 06-12-2000).]


From: Phoenix, AZ | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Biffster
Farting Nudist
Member # 269

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posted 06-12-2000 09:08 PM      Profile for Biffster     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ok, Jason

Go win a championship for me. Try to have fun. Good luck.

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"I finally figured out how to slow that mo-fo down."
Me while using the fly by wire rocket in Perfect Dark.


From: Viridian City (On the road at least) | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
TeeJay
Farting Nudist
Member # 265

Member Rated:
posted 06-12-2000 10:34 PM      Profile for TeeJay     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Finally, someone backs up someone who stands for what they believe in.

Thank you Fish.

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Insert sig here.

TeeJay
ICQ:13724101
AIM:daBIGTom
e-mail:dabigtom@yahoo.com


From: Overland Park, Kansas, USA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
starCaliber
is evil and also MewtwoSama
Member # 268

Member Rated:
posted 06-13-2000 03:58 AM      Profile for starCaliber   Email starCaliber   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
OK, everyone who's in on this giant MewX debate. I would like to know if we can simply contain all of the arguments to this thread. It's the one I check out the most, and its title describes very well what we are talking about. So if you guys agree to stop putting debates under other threads, then I do as well. Makes it simpler for all of us .

Fanha, I like reading your long posts, and I gotta respect you for all the points that you've been making for using Mewtwo. To tell you the truth, I didn't like you early on in these debates, but as someone (Argo I think) said, respect can be gained. And just let me tell you, if there was ANYONE that would sway me into finding Mewtwo to be an acceptable Pokemon for my team, then it would be you. Thank you for remaining so mature throughout this.

But when you get down to it, I just don't like Mewtwo. It seriously pulls some strategy out, in my book. As a reasonable enough compromise, I've decided to play against MewX users, and just hope for the best, without even bringing a Mew/two of my own. I used to bring 'em along, hoping not to have to use them, but battles are a lot more exciting if you drop the security blanket and go all out.

The thing is tho, I can't understand WHY people would want to use MewX in battles. It makes the game just feel all around more strategic without them, ya know? It allows 2 skilled Pokemon trainers to pick 6 pokemon teams, and duke it out. Throwing MewX into there makes it less fun, IMHO.

Yeah, Nintendo may have programmed Mewtwo into the game, but that doesn't mean you are required to use it. And frankly, I still think that the most fun way to play Pokemon is Anything Goes Stadium Rules without MewX. I know that some of you guys are just going to tell me to go play Poké Cup, but I like L100 battles. They are very cool, and something about L50-55 Pokemon rubs me the wrong way. I'm not sure what, but something.

Outlawing moves seems...no. I can't condone that at all. That's like telling someone that the moveset they designed is too good, so throw it out and pick a new one. And this brings back the sports analogy, where it's like telling one team that they are too good, so they can't play. However, this is not the same for not using MewX. Other Pokemon aren't going to get better than MewX, but movesets can be changed and made better (just like athletes can practice harder).

Basically, what I'm saying is that we are not bound to Nintendo's rules. Dropping MewX makes the game much more fun IMO (whoa how many times have I said this now, a million?), but I'll just play people who have them anyway. At this point, it's more about my beliefs than anything else, and a challenge heighten as well. I'd have more fun beating someone who used Mewtwo if I didn't use one myself. But when I think back to many of my Pokemon battles with Bifftser in which we both agreed not to use MewX, it just reminds me how much fun Pokemon is without them.

And one last piece of redundancy before I go away for awhile. Remember how I always say that Mewtwo is used simply because he is "far and away the best Pokemon in the game?" Click here. Thank you, that is all (yes Fanha, I expect you to do a traditional quote everything and input your opinion post off of this. Those are always interesting).

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"It's like the bastard lovechild of Tekken and Virtua Fighter."
-EGM, on Dead or Alive 2 for Dreamcast


From: San Francisco, CA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Acey
Farting Nudist
Member # 309

Rate Member
posted 06-13-2000 06:28 AM      Profile for Acey   Author's Homepage   Email Acey   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've been following this thread since the beginning so I might as well put in my 2 cents *_*.

First off, what exactly is cheap? An earlier poster hit the nail on the head with, "gained with little effort."

Now then, using that definition, anyone would agree that Mewtwo would be "cheap" right? It's the one Pokemon that requires the least effort of all to win. Face it, you don't have to think much when using one. All the strategy falls down to how to take it down instead.

Next up, the Chansey - Mewtwo comparison. Now this is seriously far out. First of all, Mewtwo doesn't have a single stat that falls in the pathetic hundreds (Chansey A/D). Counter with defence curl/ reflect you say? Whatever, it'll still be a lot of turns before its got decent defence (reflect is still pretty bad on Chansey anyways). Mewtwo only needs 2 turns to become an offensive/defensive powerhouse. And of course, Barrier is much better a move than any defensive move Chansey can hope to learn. And Chansey may have high special, but Mewtwo's is higher plus it can learn Amnesia. No contest. In fact, Mewtwo can be a better "chansey" than Chansey can be "Chansey". Make Molly Nut Mewtwo. Thunderwave, Seismic Toss, Double Team, Recover. ^_*

Now the Mewtwo can be used by everyone therefore its fair argument. The way I see it, a Mewtwo user VS a non-Mewtwo user is automatically unfair. *shrug*. Let's pretend that I'm playing against you in Street Fighter 2 at the arcade. Let's say to keep you from landing the winning hit, I hit your buttons so you'd make a mistake. You can do it too right? So it's all fair? Just because you can do the same thing, it doesn't change "fairness." You can disagree here, but I call a spade a spade. It's uneven. Mewtwo by being virtue of the best stats and type Pokemon in the game unbalances a match if one has it and the other doesn't.

Spelling. I believe anybody on the internet who resorts to spelling insults is rather unimaginative ^_*.

Fun. It seems here that fun means getting to use more strategy, knowing that you worked hard for a win etc etc. Using Mewtwo means less strategy needed and less work. Means less fun. Unless the only way you can have fun is by winning all the time.

Finding out who is the best. Pokemon the way I see it is a game of strategy first and foremost. Training would come into it and preserverence (to get a poke with good stats) but since you guys are using PBS, that's not a factor. That leaves pure strategy. Now since using Mewtwo requires less strategy (and shifts the battles more to luck), I'd say that skews the results a bit. The classic example of 2 Mewtwos Ice Beaming each other. Now the one who froze the other first - is he/she a better Pokemon Player with better strategy?

SpaceDog. Was he the one that suggested blasting people off to gay island? I thought it was kinda funny ^_^;;. One of the most entertaining posts in a long time I think, for some weird reason.

Mewtwo not being perfect. He may not be perfect (he is subjectable to luck after all) but he is certainly the *most* perfect out of all current 151 Pokemon. Anyone disagree? Hes is the best. Now here is the hard question. Who is second best? It's tricky isn't it? The tiers in this game due to Mewtwo are unbelievably distanced apart. That should tell you something right there. And about Tobybro's popularity. He is widely regarded as being a good Mewtwo Killer. That tells you something too. (although it wouldn't be a good M2 Killer if it was a Thunderbolting/Thunder M2 but that's a different story =p).

Since mewtwo is cheap, that makes mewtwo users cheap too. Why would you want to be called cheap? - I think that's the main reason why the Mewtwo supporters are so bent out of joint. Call their Pokemon cheap and it seems like you're calling them cheap too. But if Mewtwo really is cheap, then the player is definitely cheap too. Cheap - with little effort. Using Mewtwo to win is with little effort (or less effort).

Cheap is opinion. (round 2) Well, yeah, if you get down to it, all phrases can be opinions. But the most widely known definition of cheap - that even Street Fighter players use - is a tactic or action that requires the least effort to execute - an action that 'costs' less - low risk, high reward. Going by this, Mewtwo is cheap.

TJ accusing other people of being disrespectful / rude. Let's just say that you should practise what you preach ^_*. Maybe if you read some more of your other responses you'd see what I mean.

Mewtwo is unstoppable. Well of course he isn't. But his degree of "unstoppableness" is much higher than any other Pokemon. He is not balanced. Using an unbalanced Pokemon just to win is "cheap" going by the definiton I gave twice earlier. Now since that is this whole thread is about, I guess I can say case closed.

~Ace

(I bet I opened yet another can of worms *_*)

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-
*** Ace ***

http://jsa.users.fl.net.au
"How strange... It's wilting... Ha! Ha!" - Lilith
-


From: AUS | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
Racist
Member # 2

Member Rated:
posted 06-13-2000 06:40 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You make an excellent point, Acey, about "Who's the second most powerful Pokemon?".

I think that just about sums up the whole argument. Only a buffoon would argue that M2 is not the most powerful Pokemon. The fact that there's any argument whatsoever about who's Number Two pretty much shows that whoever #2 is, he's not "cheap".

But #1 is clearly #1 and he's #1 by a mile.

"Cheap" has a negative connotation, so I can see how someone wouldn't want to be regarded as such, but it's a difficult argument to make that he's not much more powerful than whoever #2 is.

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KOFFING!
Azure Heights Pokémon Laboratory


From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Charmeleon411
Farting Nudist
Member # 99

Member Rated:
posted 06-13-2000 09:30 AM      Profile for Charmeleon411     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Methinks TeeJay and a few others have lost what this tourney is all about. Who's the best? Yeah right, PBS has about 30% skill and 70% luck involved, if it's whose the best it should actually be, "Who's the most lucky on this particular day".

It's about fun people. Who ever won the tourney would become SO arrogant to the other boards it'd be sick. We'd all hate each other and become enimies of each other, not friends. If you all precieve this tourney is some "war" for supremicy, I pity you all.

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"I gave you all a plate of corn muffins to rate my team..."
-Charmeleon411-


From: >_< | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged


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