I am looking at my max stats chart here, which quickly compares all of the max stats of the final evolution Pokemon. Did you know that Mewtwo's defense is ranked 11th out of a possible 33 numbers? That is the 66th percentile, folks. You people are always saying Mewtwo is too good, but his defense is clearly standing out. If you guys would spend less time on the boards complaining about how Mewtwo is cheap and more time thinking of a good Mewtwo killer, we wouldn't have this problem. Mew is the same way. Mew's stats aren't bad, but they certainly aren't top class.

Ok, we all know the infamous Swift-Dancer Mew.
Swords Dance, Swift, DT, Softboiled.

Now, he is considered to be "cheap." We all know this, correct?
Now what if I took a Kabutops (who has 30 more attack then a Mew can) and did the same thing with it?
Swords Dance, Swift, DT, Rest.

If you have, lets say, a normal type out, and you need to switch to get rid of this. The Kabutops powers up, and is having a hay day. It's behaving like a Mew!!! But it can't be cheap, because even though it has more attack and the same moves (pretty much).
Ok, I could go on and on, but I'll get to the point.

Did Mark McGuire get banned from baseball when he hit more homers than anyone else? Even when they discovered he used an excersizing supplement, did he get banned because he was using something "cheap?" No.

Is Tiger Woods banned because he wins over and over and over? Are Titanium club heads banned from golf because they are "cheap" and require less skill than a steel head? No.

Was Michael Jordan banned from basketball? Were the Bulls banned because they had won more than half the championships in the 90's? No.

Is Brazil banned from the World Cup because they always win? No.

Is that annoying nerd who always sets the curve on your tests banned because he is too smart, and his large IQ is too "cheap?" No.

And in the Bible story of David and Goliath, Goliath was considered "cheap" because he was a towering giant. But some little tiny person with a sling killed him.

So lets sit here and think, why ban Mew/two? The only logical reason I can think of is that he is used as a scapegoat, or an excuse, for someone who always loses. It certainly can't be because he's "cheap," because after all, the Goliaths always have some weakness.

So we're falling back on the good ol' scapegoat reason. People get steaming mad when they lose to Mew/two, and are too lazy to train harder, or think of some better moveset, so they cry and complain and cry that Mew/two is cheap, when they are using it themselves. They claim that they have to use it because if they didn't, they would surely lose.

And perhaps the most obvious reason for using Mew/two. It was programmed into the game to be used. We have two hands, and we don't just use one. We don't just limit certain parts of the game. We play the game the way the game was meant to be played. Heck, soon, we will find ourselves only using Dittos because everything else was deemed "cheap." The best thing I can think of is that soon we must sink to the level of calling Toby-Bros cheap, once Mew/two is gone, a powered up Toby will rule the day.

Anyway, this is your Pokémon, don't waste it.
If you're gonna compete, play to win. Otherwise go back to Poke cup.

To all you people who read ALL of this, thank you. You have my gratitude. I tried to keep it as short as possible, but I wanted to get everything across that has been building up inside of me lately.

Well, I don't believe I've EVER written that much. And I probably just soiled my entire reputation. Oh well. PLEASE respond to this, tell me what you think. You can write a book, too. Are you for or against this? I wouldn't mind a little debate.

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Insert sig here.

TeeJay
ICQ:13724101
AIM:daBIGTom
e-mail:dabigtom@yahoo.com

Whether or not you decide you want a part of that cheapness is up to you, but there are several (more or less) indisputable facts:

Psychic is the King of All Types in RBY. No real weaknesses.

Mewtwo has massive stats. Remember that you should double his Special stat, because it's both Attack and Defense.

A dumb kid with a Rare Candied Mewtwo who uses nothing but Psychic has a good chance of beating any Mewtwo-less team that doesn't have at least one member expressly designed to kill M2.

Mewtwo makes all Fighting and most Poison Pokemon completely useless in tourney play. (That's 41 Pokemon! Almost 1/3 of all available!)

The game clearly revolves around M2. When's the last time someone devoted much space to "Articuno Killers" or "Jolteon Killers"?

All other kick ass Pokemon have an easily counterable weakness.

You have to come up with a strategy designed specifically to take out a Mewtwo...

...or you can just get your own Mewtwo and blast away with Psychic right back.

Woo. That's exciting.

So now if you don't like Mewtwo, you have to devoted 1/6 or 1/3 of your team to a guy you don't even like, or someone designed exclusively to take him out.

That's cheap, and it ruins the game for those of us who don't like Mewtwo.

OK, I guess I just have to respond to one of these every now and then...

By the way, your Tiger Woods argument does not apply. In the real world, other players can get better if they practice harder, and new players are showing up all the time. No amount of practice can raise another Pokemon's stats to Mewtwo-level and there's no new Pokemon coming into the game...

quote:

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Originally posted by Philbo:
KABUTOPS CANNOT LEARN SWIFT!

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And even if it could, a half-drunk Pikachu could take it out.

Mew is Psychic...not as beefy as Mewtwo, but still the best type available. I don't think I'd consider Mew especially cheap... that one's debatable. But no question about M2.

I haven't had much trouble defeating dumb kids with Mews, but I've had a lot of trouble defeating dumb kids with Mewtwos...

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Mewtwo used Blizzard
It's frozen rock solid!
Being unable to move hurts

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Mewtwo used Blizzard
It's frozen rock solid!
Being unable to move hurts

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Insert sig here.

quote:

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Originally Posted By TeeJay:
Is Tiger Woods banned because he wins over and over and over? Are Titanium club heads banned from golf because they are "cheap" and require less skill than a steel head? No.

Was Michael Jordan banned from basketball? Were the Bulls banned because they had won more than half the championships in the 90's? No.

Is Brazil banned from the World Cup because they always win? No.

Is that annoying nerd who always sets the curve on your tests banned because he is too smart, and his large IQ is too "cheap?" No.

And in the Bible story of David and Goliath, Goliath was considered "cheap" because he was a towering giant. But some little tiny person with a sling killed him.

So lets sit here and think, why ban Mew/two? The only logical reason I can think of is that he is used as a scapegoat, or an excuse, for someone who always loses. It certainly can't be because he's "cheap," because after all, the Goliaths always have some weakness.

So we're falling back on the good ol' scapegoat reason. People get steaming mad when they lose to Mew/two, and are too lazy to train harder, or think of some better moveset, so they cry and complain and cry that Mew/two is cheap, when they are using it themselves. They claim that they have to use it because if they didn't, they would surely lose.

Hitler used the Jews as a scapegoat. Why? Because he was mad that Germany had lost World War I, and wanted to blame it on someone. Why do we study History? So we don't repeat the same mistakes, right?

Well, we are repeating Hitler's mistake, taking our anger out on a part of our country, or in this case, team.

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blah blah blah blah blah......
Im glad that Mr.K put you in your place before I could.

quote:

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Originally Posted By TeeJay:
I tried to keep it as short as possible

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nice try...

quote:

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Originally Posted By TeeJay:
And I probably just soiled my entire reputation

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Just??? You already have.

quote:

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Originally Posted By TeeJay:
Well, I don't believe I've EVER written that much

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Lets keep it that way.

quote:

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Originally Posted By TeeJay:
I wouldn't mind a little debate

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You have nothing better to do.

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"Oh wait, NO wait, you're kidding. He didn't just say what I think he did. Did he?"
-Eminem

"Pika Pika chu, pika, pi pi pi-kchu, CHU, pik-a-chu."
-Pikachu

quote:

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TeeGay's Old sig:
I say Mewtwo You say Sucks
Mewtwo
Sucks
Mewtwo
Sucks

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Make up your mind man.

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"Oh wait, NO wait, you're kidding. He didn't just say what I think he did. Did he?"
-Eminem

"Pika Pika chu, pika, pi pi pi-kchu, CHU, pik-a-chu."
-Pikachu

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Insert sig here.

I trained an Arbok called SolidSnake.

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"Oh wait, NO wait, you're kidding. He didn't just say what I think he did. Did he?"
-Eminem

And regarding playing Poké Cup instead of Prime. The league doesn't like to play 3v3 battles anyway, so we couldn't even get Prime Cup passed. They have to play 6v6 anything goes. I suppose in a way this is more fair because it makes Pokemon less of a guessing game. But anyone who calls other people "lazy" for not thinking of a Mewtwo counter, and then goes back and uses a Mewtwo on their own...they'll get theirs.

The closest thing to a Mew/two I'm ever using again is either a KaziMewtwo, or a Mew for competition. I doubt it on the Mew. And the Mewtwo's only there to even things out.

That Holocaust analogy was so over the line though...thank you for pointing that out Kobayashi. C ya.

Mewtwo, whoopdeedo.

quote:

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Originally posted by TeeJay:
Mr. K, since when does anybody ever use fighting or poison type Pokémon anyway?

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And why is that?

Think about it...I know the answer will come to you...

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Insert sig here.

Hitler used the Jews as a scapegoat, yes, but when you're rightly using Mewtwo as a scapegoat as to why you have lost a stupid, normally irrelevant match, I think it's quite different than wrongly accusing a religion for losing a great war. They're on two completely different planes. Try reading Mein Kampf, keeping in mind that Hitler wrote this in a prison, trying to find anyone to be a scapegoat, even irrationally, then rethink ever using Hitler as an example for anything. This is coming from a Jew who's grandparents are holocaust survivors.

Parting word: Think.
Elaboration: Use your head. It's there for a reason. Don't say something that is irrelevant to the topic or something that is completely off base.

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"Oh wait, NO wait, you're kidding. He didn't just say what I think he did. Did he?"
-Eminem

I took the reference out of my message. I do not like the Holocaust at all, I think it was a horrible thing. Again, I'm sorry.

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Insert sig here.

TeeJay
ICQ:13724101
AIM:daBIGTom
e-mail:dabigtom@yahoo.com

quote:

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Originally posted by TeeJay:
I just said that here we play without Mew/two, and yet still, none of us use Fighting and Poison.

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TeeJay, I REALLY don't know why you are so hell-bent on keeping Mewtwos around. They make games NOT fun to play. Do I need to post the thingie about Tim, Jim, and their Mewtwos again? (click here and read the post by me on 5-30-2000 at 1:04 P.M. to see it)

After some long and careful deliberations, I have decided that using Mews really isn't that horrible of a thing to do. His stats, while nice, are nothing to make grown men like cry like Mewtwo's. It kinda pissed me off that in order to ban Mewtwos, people required that Mew be banned as well. As 10K once said, "I have no qualms about using Mew, simply because I would feel bad for leaving such a strategic Pokemon out." But no, because he is like m2, he has to fall into the same class of "cheating bitches" sometimes. Pity.

Shame on all of you who think that using Mewtwo is strategic. And as Biffster said, thank you so much Mr. K for exploiting the profound ignorance expressed in TeeJay's first post. You can do that in such a way that it doesn't sound like flaming at all (a skill which I seem to lack ). Almost done...

Mick_Hale, thank you soooo much for saying that. I wholeheartedly agree with every word you said, and as a matter of fact, I'm surprised it's taken until now for someone to really grill TeeJay on that. There, that oughta be good for now...

quote:

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Originally posted by Biffster:
TeeJay, don't challenge the pokemon god, Mr. K...

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Yeesh.

Anyway, Muk, Weezing, and Poliwrath are all great Pokemon, but almost no one uses them specifically because of Mewtwo.

In fact, most people immediately write off all Fighters and most Poison Pokemon so quickly, they don't even take the time to realize that Muk has some pretty impressive stats. (He's like a Poison Snorlax.) Tentacruel has good stats, too.

In a six member team, you get away with a Fighting or Poison Pokemon...but you still have to take special care to build the rest of the team around defeating Mewtwo.

My Lee kicks ass in Stadium, because every single trainer isn't strapped with a Mewtwo...

Anyway, my point is, if people don't use Fighting/Poison, it's probably because they're used to having to deal with M2, or maybe because every time one is mentioned in a Rate My Team post, people tell them to get rid of it because of M2.

Have you read my reports of how my Lee did in Tourney battles? Dead in one Psychic vs. Mewtwo almost every time. Give him someone else to fight and whacks the snot out of them.

Like what? I hear you say.

Erm, I'm sure we'll find something

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The bad thing about common sense is...

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"Oh wait, NO wait, you're kidding. He didn't just say what I think he did. Did he?"
-Eminem

"Pika Pika chu, pika, pi pi pi-kchu, CHU, pik-a-chu."
-Pikachu

But they still have to WORK.

Sure, Mewtwo hs one bad stat.

But most Pokemon are notable because of their one GOOD stat.

Mew's stats sure as hell are top class. If they're not, then what is?

We have two hands because they were evolutionarily placed there. (by God, fate, Nature, whatever) Pokémon has Mewtwo because the Nintendo programmers put him there.

The Nintendo programmers aren't Fate, they aren't Nature, and they sure as hell aren't God. If I were making Pokémon, I could put in a Pokémon with twice the stats of Mewtwo, and use the same argument.

And I don't get mad when I lose to Mewtwo (which I have only done twice out of thirty-one battles with him) because it's an obstacle to overcome.

Mew isn't cheap because of one particular moveset; he's cheap because of the wide range of movesets he can choose from.

And we will never resort to using Dittos; not because of the absurdity, but because Mewtwo is cheap because he is unrivaled in strength and Mew is cheap because he is unrivaled in versatility. All others have rough equals or betters in strength or versatility.

And I don't want your gratitude. Others have been able to discuss this decently; I'm sick of you DEFINING the game.

quote:

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Originally posted by Peelium:
Well, personally, I'm going to be VERY glad when gold/silver come out, then everyone can move on from having these arguements all the time and discuss something more important.

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Yeah, like why their Pokémon are/aren't cheap.

I think it's justified, as he not only states his opinion but acts like he's laying down the law and his opinion is superior. Using gayness to insult him IS unjustified, however.

Mewtwo haters, enjoy! Oh, I hate Mewtwo. He's too good. He was designed so five year old could feel could about themselves. Mew is OK.

quote:

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Originally posted by Rolken:
You can't delete the post; yer not an admin.

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1 I know that it is possible because i have deleted a number of my posts

2

quote:

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Only forum leaders (Yossarian, Azurian) or the person that posted this message may edit or delete this message. Only registered users may edit/delete posts!
Delete? To delete this post, check this box.

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I think it was at another UBB that deleting isn't allowed.

quote:

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Originally posted by Magician Type 0:
Mewtwo haters, enjoy!

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Gaa, I don't wanna KILL him! I just disapprove of others using him.

quote:

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Is that annoying nerd who always sets the curve on your tests banned because he is too smart

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Your school does that? Heh, I'm glad I don't go there...

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"And sometimes you see things that aren't there (Like what?)
Like fat woman in G-strings with orange hair
(Mr. Shady what's a G-string?) It's yarn Claire
Women stick 'em up their behinds, go out and wear 'em"

I just get annoyed when I read yours.

Wait, This kinda sounds like me. You dont want to come come down to MY level.

Thank you Fanha, StarCaliber: He just won't listen to us(me) sometimes.

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"It's a revolving door of Pokémon!"

quote:

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Originally posted by TeeJay:
Thank you Fanha, StarCaliber: He just won't listen to us(me) sometimes.

---

quote:

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I respond to crap with crap.

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"Yeah Ramon. That'll happen."

He won't just take it from me sometimes...

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"It's a revolving door of Pokémon!"

WELL TEEJAY don't you notice that the only reason people don't use poison and fighting is cause M2 is around.
I would've had a weezing before now but up until now everyone i play uses M2, so i was a bit stuffed

I'm sure there are more poison & fighting pokes who people would use if M2s weren't around

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(: ryoga!!!
If pokemon really existed ... No.2
TRAINER 1 sends out Pinsir
TRAINER 2 sends out Pickachu
Pinsir used Guilotene
Pickachu was decapitated

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"It's a revolving door of Pokémon!"

quote:

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Originally posted by TeeJay:
WELL RYOGA, if you weren't so ignorant...

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Oh and TJ, that comment was uncalled for.

Seeyas!

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-
*** Ace ***

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"It's a revolving door of Pokémon!"

But flat out calling someone an ignorant is pretty obvious...

Well anyway no matter what, I realise that my being here can be taken as hypocrisy so I'll exit stage left now ...

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-
*** Ace ***

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"I finally figured out how to slow that mo-fo down."
Me while using the fly by wire rocket in Perfect Dark.

WELL RYOGA, if you weren't so ignorant and read-down...

Ah, but the above implies that he is *already* ignoarant and read-down.

The if-clause we gave you was: "If you genuinely believe Mewtwo wasn't cheap, then you were an idiot" and we even GAVE you the benefit of the doubt and thought you were just arguing because you dislike losing a debate.

TeeJay's statement was just plain 100% flame/insult and no other meaning was intended by it other than calling Ryoga an idiot. If we wanted to just flame you, we could have come up with much more entertaining and interesting insults than accusation of idiocy ...

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-
*** Ace ***

Biffster: Definitely uncalled for TeeJay.

THIS I have a problem with.

TeeJay, I hate it when you throw your weight around here

BTW, TeeJay, you are a brat.

And there are many more I'm sure you can all find, that either come from Biffster, StarCaliber, or Sneakerton

(which if you haven't all figured out is actually just Biffster and StarCaliber, they even admitted it to Fish, just get a moderator to check the IP address logs! Careful, SC has 2 Internet providers and Biff has one, so that's three different IP's it could be!)

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"It's a revolving door of Pokémon!"