The previous tourney (when everyone seemed to be leading with Mewtwo) he stomped about 5 of them into the ground.

In unofficial play, after the tourney, he was ripping up teams all over the place and earning grudging respect from those who originally laughed at him.

Now, I love my Wigglytuff and he's my hero and I'm sure he knows that and that gives him strength.

But, still...the numbers really just don't add up, do they?

So here are some possible explanations as to why my Wiggly is such a beast.

1. I always lead with him, so he always gets a free shot.

2. Body Slam rules. The paralysis lets him hang in there longer when others miss, and the Speed bonus lets him get in the death strike earlier (and makes up for his slight pokeyness).

3. Hyper Beam is a great finisher. One less attack he has to eat, and once the first guy goes down, he gets another free shot on a Pokemon (see #1).

4. He's relentless. No powering up, no dodging, no defenses, just an all-out assault. If the opponent spends any time on Amnesia or other NDAs, Wiggly just keeps slamming away, weakening them every time.

5. He's uncommon. People don't know how to go about attacking him and they always underestimate him. They think a Hyper Beam from their Dragonite will do him in. No way! And Wiggly uses that recharge round to go in for the kill (see #4).

6. He's Normal. Well, he's anything but normal, but he's Normal Type, thus getting a big boost for his Body Slamming and Hyper Beaming needs. Also, almost no one at the tourney has any Fighting moves, so he can hold his own with just about anyone.

7. Most tourney opponents have huge Specials, but just good Defenses. That plays to Wiggly's strengths.

8. He's intimidating. After he's ripped thru their first Pokemon, some people panic and start trying weird things to counteract him (an Alakazam tried Disabling him, for example, hoping to get that blasted Body Slam...he got Sing and was quickly dispatched).

9. HP. He can just take a beating.

10. My Wigglytuff is box-tricked and I'm sure most of his tourney victims were not.

All of the above seems reasonable, but what doesn't quite make sense is why he did so much better than my Snorlax, whose stats (as a friend of mine put it) "kick Wiggly's down the stairs".

Surely it can't just be that my Wiggly is a madman in the arena.

My thoughts...

For one thing, Wiggly gets in those free shots. Snorlax takes a hit by coming in after Wiggly eventually falls. Snorlax is slower, too, but paralysis usually evens that out.

Snorlax also doesn't have Hyper Beam (he needs Earthquake for Gengar).

I'm also more apt to let Snorlax Rest, thus giving the opponent time to power up.

...just thought of something else. In this tourney, Snorlax had to do battle with more Mewtwos, since for some strange reason, no one lead with Mewtwo this time, when last time almost everyone did. So, while Wiggly didn't seem to have much trouble with Mewtwo last time, it's a little unfair to compare with Snorlax's performance this time.

So, in conclusion, there does seem to be a legitimate reason for Wiggly's battle prowess. It's not all in my head or extreme luck, and it's not just that my Wiggly is such a demon.

...but that doesn't hurt...

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KOFFING!
Azure Heights Pokémon Laboratory

Your little exploration into Wigglytuff has bolstered me into wanting to train one! He does have pretty amazing hitpoints (you're right, that is the only thing remotely close to good).. He might make a good team mate with my Porygon (his name is Voltron) hmmmm... how about

Mega Kick
Body Slam
Seismic toss
Submission

I've never used one before...

Here's something I also found out though. Use Clefable instead, he is completely superior to Wigglytuff in almost all aspects, and is mostly the same type of pokemon. His stats are higher.

I also just noticed that Hypno might be pretty good at defeating Mewtwo. If he used Seismic Toss, Hypnosis, Double Team, and Rest. Hrm......

It's just that my particular Wiggly seems to have an advantage over my particular Snorlax, based on the order of their use and my use of Snorlax as an anti-Gengar device.

My Wiggly's move set is:
Body Slam
Hyper Beam
Rest
Sing

It looks pretty one-sided (and it is!), but so are the opponents you'll face in a tourney.

I don't get much chance to use Rest, but Wiggly has the HP to back it up and also can use Sing to buy some time.

If I were picking exclusively based on the best attacks, I might drop Sing, just because it's so inaccurate, but I don't think my Wiggly would ever forgive me if I took away his singing voice.

As for your choices...I'd suggest Hyper Beam over Mega Kick. More accuracy and more power, and considering you'll only be using either as a finisher, the recharge time is not a problem (altho I might change my mind
when Stadium comes out).

Wiggly has the HP to stand and deliver with Seismic Toss, so it's not a bad choice and a reasonable way to deal with Gengar (altho I'll bet you get Hypnotized before you finish him off). Wiggly has a number of great
elemental attacks at his disposal, so you might consider one of those.

I dunno about Submission. You don't run into too many other Normals, and without Wiggly's type matching bonus, it's not all that powerful. Plus, imagine the look on his face when you make him hurt himself!

Body Slam is key, tho. It deals with Wiggly's Speed issue nicely, when paralysis kicks in.

Of course, all this also applies to Snorlax, as well, and he's got better stats.

But while I like my Snorlax, he'll never be my little buddy...

quote:

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Originally posted by Porcupine:
Hey I just checked out Wiggly's stats, you're right he is pretty good. His stats are good, and he has Sing. He is a formidable pokemon.

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I only wish Double Slap were stronger so I could really rub it in when I beat guys who dare to laugh at him!

quote:

---

Here's something I also found out though. Use Clefable instead, he is completely superior to Wigglytuff in almost all aspects, and is mostly the same type of pokemon. His stats are higher.

---

Well, considering my Wiggly's best traits are that he can take abuse and dish out damage, Clefaggot doesn't look so great...lower HP and equivalent Attack. Other stats are better, true, but Speed isn't high enough to compete with most tourney Pokemon, so it hardly makes much difference.

If you like him, tho, he doesn't look too bad. He's got most of the same benefits as Wiggly...except...I don't like him. A little too swishy for my tastes. Not like big, burly Wiggly.

quote:

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I also just noticed that Hypno might be pretty good at defeating Mewtwo. If he used Seismic Toss, Hypnosis, Double Team, and Rest. Hrm......

---

Maaaaaybe...but it seems to me that the Slowbro or Starmie anti-Mewtwos might have the advantage.

Anyways, just out of curiosity, what level did you evolve your jigglypuff at, or did you catch you wiggly in the cerulean cave?

(And a nice sig you have there...)

Anyway, I raised my Wigglytuff from a L3 Jigglypuff...he's got great stats except for HP (relatively speaking), but they all looked good at L3. I don't have any more RCs, so I just had to wing it.

It was interesting to see how he'd turn out, but if I had to do it over again (now that I'm out of moonstones), I might try to catch one in the Cerulean Cave...

Altho I'd have to teach him Body Slam and Rest from TMs!

Anyway, I believe I evolved Jiggly shortly after he learned Body Slam. But, as we now know, that doesn't seem to make any difference to the final product.

Moving on: Based on this topic, I have been inspired to recreate my team to be the Cute Pink Balls of Fluff. It includes:

Chansey
Wiggly
Clefairy (I detest Clefable's appearance)

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that gets emotionally attached to his Pokémon...if only you could let (J)Wigglys and Chanseys follow behind you too. The graphics are already there in Yellow, and I'd love to talk with Chansey some time.

quote:

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Originally posted by Rolken:
Based on this topic, I have been inspired to recreate my team to be the Cute Pink Balls of Fluff.

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The first time I went to the tourney, I talked to a Nintendo guy who told me one of the reps used this setup (well, he evolved the Clefairy) and he did great with it. I've never heard of them using it at the Stadium, tho. Maybe in lower level competition?

Anyway, I wonder how much these guys get ignored due simply to their appearance.

quote:

---

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that gets emotionally attached to his Pokémon...if only you could let (J)Wigglys and Chanseys follow behind you too. The graphics are already there in Yellow, and I'd love to talk with Chansey some time.

---

That would be great! I would buy Pokemon Pink: Special Wigglytuff Version!

I often imagine wandering around town with my Wigglytuff at my heels and my Koffing floating nearby, peeking in windows and stuff. OK, so I'm clearly nuts, but I'm still a consumer...I want Pokemon Purple: SKV! Ain't my money good here?

Anyway, being attached to my team severely limits its power, but it makes victories so satisfying, I wouldn't play any other way.

I can buy that a kid loves his Blastoise or Charizard, because he raised them from a sweet little thing, but I don't buy that anyone loves their Zapdos. Too prickly.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Avalanche:
For shame Mr.K, judging by apperance. I love Golem and Kingler, altough they may not be huggable. Even Koffing him self might probably smell bad, or at least unpleasent.

---

Hey, maybe some Koffings smell bad, but mine is just fine! He chews a lot of mentholated herbs, so his Smokescreens are quite pleasant.

I myself had a Kingler, too, so I understand that someone doesn't have to be huggable to be loveable. Kingler was the Original "Mr. K", altho he preferred to be called "Mr. Krabb". I had to let him go, tho...Psyduck takes up the Water spot on my team...

However, I am considering raising a new Kingler as a backup L100.

As for judging a book by its cover...I suppose there might be a friendly Zapdos out there, but all the ones I've encountered have been ill-mannered. I just think most kids who use Zapdos use him because he's tough and easy to get to L100, not because they enjoy spending time together...

Too bad it costs so much.
I went UC SanDiego because it costs half as much.
How on earth can you afford to go there?

------------------
MewtwoSama
It was created by a scientist after years of horrific gene splicing and DNA engineering experiments. It's DNA is almost the same as MEW's. However, it's size and disposition are vastly different.

ICQ: 45770183
AIM: MewtwoSama
E-mail: mewtwo@ureach.com

Mew! Meow! Grrrrr!

The key to a good offense is a strong defense

quote:

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Originally posted by 10,000Lb.Snorlax:
I think Zapdos is one of the coolest pokémon (in terms of appearance) in there.

---

I have a really nice picture of Zapdos going off in Stadium. Is it just me or does Oak have some krappy taste now and then?

quote:

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Not to many people here at BU play pokémon. In my experience, 1 out of 20,000 students... I guess at University of Miami, it's different?

---

I doubt it. I know some people here who kinda watch the show, but I've never tried to to get an on-campus tourney going here or anything. The students are pretty annoying here anyway.

quote:

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How did the creators of Azure ever meet eachother, anyway?

---

On alt.games.nintendo.pokemon. We're all from different countries, actually.

quote:

---

Originally posted by MewtwoSama:
I went UC SanDiego because it costs half as much.

---

I'd bet it's a better school, too. San Diego is certainly a much nicer town than Miami. I've been all over this friggin country and San Diego has been the only place I'd consider moving to from here...well, other than just an hour north to get away from most of the undesirables here.

I've found much nicer places in the summer, but if you want to be comfortable year-round, you have to shoot for bland.

quote:

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How on earth can you afford to go there?

---

Who sez I'm a student?

I did go here long ago, tho, with scholarships up the butt. And it was still ridiculously expensive.

I'd say you chose wisely.

Mr. K:
...San Diego has been the only place I'd consider moving to from here...well, other than just an hour north to get away from most of the undesirables here. ...

Heh... yea, Miami can be pretty screwed up... growing up there, though, I really liked the weather.

I'm currently in Gainesville (UF student).

I am curious, though, Mr. K, what do you do there? This is the computer science section that you are in, correct? Professor? I have no clue...

And just for the record, not a whole lot of people play here, but a few do. I've spotted one random person in my class, and a few of my friends also play...

-cfalcon, so far off the original topic that he can't even see it in the distance anymore. Damn the curvature of the earth!

They are both pretty damn strong though. =D I will never underestimate then again. BTW I don't like Snorlax he is ugly. Chansey is ugly too. Hehe. Wigglytuff and Clefable look a lot better.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Porcupine:
According to the web sites, max HP 393, max Def 244, max Spec 268. Wigglytuff has max HP 483, max Def 188, max Spec 198. So Clefable can withstand more hits from both Special and Physical attacks, and he has equal Attack, and higher Speed and Special attacking ability.

---

As I said, tho, in a Wiggly, I think the HP and Attack are the main thing. I read somewhere (I know, don't believe everything you read) that a point of HP actually works out better than a point of Defense or Special. I suppose it'd be a simple procedure to work out the math, but I'm happy to live in ignorance, thinking my Wiggly is best.

quote:

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They are both pretty damn strong though. =D I will never underestimate then again.

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It really is so pleasing to stomp an enemy Pokemon into the ground after their trainer laughs at your Pokemon. I took particular pleasure in watching Wiggly down Mewtwo after Mewtwo 2 tourneys ago.

quote:

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Originally posted by cfalcon:
Miami can be pretty screwed up... growing up there, though, I really liked the weather.

---

In general, the weather is nice, except for those miserable humid summer days when you can't even walk outside with sweating up your clothes. I always thought that was probably roughly equivalent to snow, tho, but after visiting Chicago a couple winters ago, I have completely changed my tune. Hateful humidity is disgusting and unpleasant, but it's not typically life-threatening and it wouldn't prevent me from going to the movies or the store or whatever...

quote:

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I'm currently in Gainesville (UF student).

---

Ah, that's an interesting place. The mix of super liberal college students and backwater hicks is something to see. I really like the atmosphere of the town, tho. You've got nice parks nearby, lots of trees, and so much designed for college students that it's almost like your own town. I dig that place.

quote:

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I am curious, though, Mr. K, what do you do there? This is the computer science section that you are in, correct? Professor?

---

I pretty much run the computer stuff here. It has very little to do with CS itself (altho, in another life, I was a CS student). I might as well be the sys admin for the Art department, for as much as my job has to do with CS.

I think the HP vs Defense thing is just HP times Defense. That tells you how good his damage absorption ability is. You can get this from thinking about the damage formula. I might be wrong though. Raw HP is good for something though, absorbing tons of Seismic Tosses! Also weird stuff like Bide and Counter.

quote:

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Originally posted by Porcupine:
Huh? Mr. K are u very old?

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Not very old, thank you very much...but at least twice the age of some of the kids I fought in the last tourney.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dopple:
So Mr. K, what do you do if someone brings a Hitmonlee for your Wigglytuff and an Alakazam for your Koffing?

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Well, you can play that game with any Pokemon. What do you do if someone brings a Mewtwo-assassinating Slowbro vs. your Mewtwo? Well, you switch to something that can do a better job of kicking its ass, or you just lose.

For what it's worth, I'd let Wiggly stomp the Alakazam (as he easily crushed two of them last tourney) and I'd bring out my own Hitmonlee to fight a Hitmonlee. Of course, no one other than me would bring a Hitmonlee to a tourney, and for good reason.

My Hitmonlee was in 4 battles last tourney. You know how many times he was killed in one Psychic by Mewtwo? Take a guess. Yeah, 4.

So what? Hitmonlee is still super cool.

As for Koffing, just about anyone can clobber him, but in the right situation, he can take down a Dragonite and an Articuno in the same match, as mine did. But you have to get lucky. The nature of the game.

quote:

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Originally posted by cfalcon:
What does he do? Well, he faints as someone actually USES a fighting type...

---

I did actually fight a Hitmonchan once. In fact, my Lee swept that match. He took out Chan, a Golem (could I have had better luck?) and even Mewtwo (who, to be fair, had been paralyzed previously by Wiggly).

quote:

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And his jaw drop when he sees Alakazam on the psychic spot instead of an evil psychic cat we all know...

---

Well, I've never seen anyone use Kazam in place of Mewtwo, but I saw several teams with Kazam and Mewtwo. No problem for Wiggly.

------------------
"I wasn't really ever a 'newbie'"- Fanha

*runs off to go and catch a jigglypuff*

quote:

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My Wiggly's move set is:
Body Slam
Hyper Beam
Rest
Sing

---

At any rate, Attack Wiggly has
Thunder Wave
Body Slam
Hyper Beam
Blizzard

You just can't beat the accuracy of Thunder Wave...I wouldn't dream of taking Sing off The Original Wiggster, but if I want to play with my head instead of my heart, I have to go with Thunder Wave.

Body Slam is Body Slam, Hyper Beam has saved my butt so many times I can't remember, and Rest is no longer useful without Sing. Blizzard gives Wiggly a chance vs. those nasty Golems. And, I guess, a 10% per use chance vs. Gengar!

And it's still called the "worst grass type." Gah. Mayhaps I need to introduce a few folks to petit cup, Let Oddish smack them around a little bit, then send 'em to Prime Cup where Vileplume can do its genuine brand of buttstomping goodness.

I use Wigglytuff on my back up team (Arcanine, Aerodactyl, Golem, Venomoth, Poliwrath, Wiggltyuff). It does quite well. Team isn't very logical, but eh.

All hail underused, underestimated Pokemon.

The funny thing is that Slowbro was once considered to be about as good as Wigglytuff in terms of reputation.

------------------
Gundam Wing/Thundercats: WHAT'S THAT?!? Sword of Omens, give me sight beyond sight. I'm going to fight it. Thunder...thunder...Thundercats...(buster rifle to the head).

I suspect you'll still use him, like the way you always used Hitmonlee with all those Psychics around.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mr. K:
I read somewhere (I know, don't believe everything you read) that a point of HP actually works out better than a point of Defense or Special.

---

Actually, it depends on the relative stats... if a pokemon has only 10 HP but 400 Def and Special, yes, another HP will help much more than another Def or Special. However, it a p[okemon has 999 HP but only 10 Def and Special, then an additional Def or Special point would help more. If you're caring only about physical attacks or ponly about special attacks, then the cutoff would be when HP is the same as Def or Special. If you want protection against both, then I guess the cutoff would be when HP is twice Def and Special or so...

Shamshel: Please don't tell me you use Petal Dance on your Vileplume. And I have a Gloom in gold rom...

Peelium: despite Psychics getting screwed over in G/S I still use a Kadabra

It's under the HP section.

Cheer for me! This is my first time extending a thread onto another page :Þ

Clefable is coooool.......

Clefable is cool, but IMO not as cool as Wiggly.

I agree with you about Jynx being cool, though.

*Goes off to make a team with Vileplume, Pidgeot, Omastar, Onix, Hypno and... Wigglytuff!*