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Author Topic: Designing a team around a single Pokemon
John
Orangutan Spouse
Member # 3143

posted 06-16-2003 11:48 AM      Profile for John     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"WTF NEWBIE COME AND TRY 2 TELL US HOW 2 BUILD OUR TEAMS WTF?!?!"

If that's not your initial reaction, than I'd appreciate any feedback (I posted this elsewhere, but didn't get much).

This is the first in what I hope to be a series of articles detailing
different methods of team design. Simply throwing together Pokemon
is obviously a very inefficient method, so it helps to use various
methods. This particular method involves picking a single Pokemon and
designing a team around it. The purpose of designing a team in this way
is to create a team with great synergy in which that particular Pokemon
can be used to the best of its ability.

The Pokemon I've chosen for an example team is Magneton. It has decent
special attack, a great move pool, and makes an excellent counter to
Zapdos and Raikou. Also, it's very underused, and many players don't
know what to expect from it or how their moves will affect it (while you
know how a Zapdos' Thunderbolt is going to affect a Blissey, do you
know how much damage an Aerodactyl's Ancient Power will do to the same
Zapdos?)

Anyways, on to the moveset. I've given this Magneton the role of special
sweeper.

Magneton (Genderless) @ Leftovers
Agility
Substitute
Thunderbolt
Hidden Power(Ice)

I've found Agility to be extremely useful, often sweeping four or more
Pokemon on a weakened team (nasty effect of switchwars). Substitute helps
protect from status changes, or an unexpected move. Thunderbolt and
Hidden Power (Ice) create a combo that no Pokemon is resistant to - except,
ironically, a Magneton (another great reason to use it). Hidden Power also
does nice damage to grounds caught on the switch (use Hidden Power the first
time you put Magneton out, switch if they've put out a ground, and then the
next time you put it out use Agility. If they switch in the ground again,
They're dead and you've got the speed boost). Regardless, it's ground
weakness is severe enough that it needs something else to counter them.
It's other major weaknesses are fire and fighting, as well as Pokemon
with Mirror Coat (although that doesn't need to be specifically addressed).
It also has major problems with Blissey and Snorlax.

There, I've got a good special sweeper, which effectively counters a number
of Pokemon. Now, I need to deal with it's weaknesses (That's what this
team strategy is all about!) It's biggest weakness is ground Pokemon,
that along with fighting Pokemon and most Snorlax sets can be countered by:

Skarmory (Female) @ Leftovers
Attract
Whirlwind
Drill Peck
Steel Wing

Yes, Attract. It's designed to counter most physical attackers, which will
nearly always be male. Whirlwind is for Pokemon with Mean Look or Double
Team, or whatever else you may need to get rid of. This set's weaknesses
are really only physical attackers with Fire Blast, as you really won't be
keeping it in against anything but physical attackers. Skarmory takes the
role of physical tank.

Good, I've addressed the problem of most of Magneton's weaknesses. Skarmory
has no weakness needs of it's own to address. Still, we have yet to counter:
Ground Pokemon with Fire Blast
Machamp with Fire Blast
Snorlax with Fire Blast
Fire Pokemon
Blissey
Ground Pokemon with Fire Blast really isn't enough of a threat to counter
(in theory, remember that this team hasn't battled yet. If it turns into
a problem, it can be fixed), so scratch that out. Machamp is a problem,
but we can allow the other Pokemon on the team to attempt to defeat it.
Or, switch in this team's Machamp and use Counter. The remaining Pokemon on
the list can be countered by:

Machamp (Male) @ Leftovers
Light Screen
Cross Chop
Hidden Power (Ghost)
Counter

Most people would use Blackbelt or Scope Lens, but I opted for Leftovers.
I use Leftovers a *lot*, diss them if you want - when your team's battered
and weak, and I'm sweeping you, then tell me I should use something else.
Light Screen is just a great move. Cross Chop is for pure power and just
destroys normal types. Hidden Power (Ghost) is for any psychic types that come
in on the switch. Counter is for flying types, mainly Skarmory (Last time I checked, Fire Blast didn't OHKO).

Those three Pokemon don't really have any other needs, the Fire Blasters
discussed earlier are covered by Light Screen and there don't seem to be
any other major weaknesses. Now is a good time to start thinking about
a starter. The current sets are going to require the opponent to switch
around a lot to survive, so let's make that hurt as well.

Cloyster (Male) @ Polkadot Bow
Spikes
Explosion
Screech
Surf

Takes the role of starter.
Polkadot Bow for maximum damage. Use Spikes first, of course. Then Screech,
hopefully causing them to switch and inflict more damage on themselves.
They'll most likely end up bringing out a defensive powerhouse or an
expendable Pokemon. You'll have to actually (OMG) think about when to
Screech, Surf, and eventually Explode. Since this Pokemon is obviously
expendable, once again we have no specific weaknesses we need to counter.

Not that countering weaknesses is always the best way to do things. Adding
Cloyster wasn't covering a weakness, it was building on a strength. In the
words of the donkey on Shrek (not that it's any good): "LET'S DO THAT AGAIN!"

Scyther (Male) @ Blackbelt
Swords Dance
Hidden Power(Bug)
Endure
Reversal

For sweeping a weakened team, Reversal really isn't that great without STAB.
Swords Dance once or twice, then use Hidden Power until your about dead.
Endure, and sweep with Reversal. Blackbelt for that little extra damage.

Unlike some of the other Pokemon, Scyther has a great deal of weaknesses.
Ghosts aren't common enough to counter, but Pokemon with Whirlwind and
Roar are extremely common. Let's lure them out, along with Hazers, with
a classic set:

Snorlax (Male) @ Leftovers
Belly Drum
Self Destruct
Body Slam
Earthquake

Skarmories generally come out at the very sight of a Snorlax. Fire Blast
doesn't kill them in one shot - but a Belly Drummed Self Destruct does.
Destiny Bond Gengars also come out against Snorlax. Wheter to kill them
or not depends on the current situation.

[ 06-23-2003, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: John ]

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Artie Cuno
Linkin125473457539
Member # 1205

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posted 06-16-2003 12:02 PM      Profile for Artie Cuno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Brilliant! One flaw, though, my man- there are actually a lot of Ghosts used. Most notably, a certain pure-ghost known as "Misdreavus", though a few people *coughmecough* use Gengar. So plan accordingly. If you face a Gengar, it'll likely have Special moves- Fire/Ice punch, Thunderbolt, Psychic, Giga Drain- and a Misdreavus will have Mean Look/Perish Song/Protect/Pain Split@Leftovers (That's standard)

- - - - -
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From: A box in a swamp. With your sister. | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
TeLeFonE
X-treme rotary telephone
Member # 2293

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posted 06-16-2003 02:39 PM      Profile for TeLeFonE   Email TeLeFonE   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Aight, first off about Magneton. I use one quite a bit and it has a huge problem with HP. I't hard to take many hits with a low HP and Substitute doesn't give nearly as much leeway as it would with a higher HP pokemon. In short, Magneton needs stalling time and free turns. It needs Thunder Wave. T-wave does Agility's job with the shot at FPs. Magneton is faster than a majority of the Ground types, so it's okay that they're immune. Besides, that's when predicting comes in. Otherwise, the set is perfect.. it hurts unprepared teams well.

Skarmory does not need two attacks. It has trouble attacking effectively to begin with and with your idea here, I'd say go with Rest over Steel Wing. Skarm can effectively Rest and with Attract it's all the more easier and Steel Wing doesn't cover much and is weak in comparison to Drill Peck.

Machamp is okay... I flinch at the lack of attacking strength here since you've only got 8 PP and then you're relying on (*steals from Gonk*) prole power. And with the set you've lined up here.. Zapdos rips Machamp apart. It's a common rule of thumb to paralyze/thunderbolt a Machamp as it is to paralyze/drill peck a Suicune. Rock Slide would be a nice addition here, and I don't think Counter is that effective on Machamp. It's either that or Ghost Power.

I've never found Screech to be all the effective on Cloyster. People switch out to their electric (Raikou) who would just Thunderbolt the shit out of it, anyway, before you can take advantage of Screech. The set's fine, though, as there isn't a whole lot to do with Cloyster.

Scyther can live without Bug Power and can live with Wing Attack if you want more power coming out of Reversal later on. Either move is fine, though. I suggest a MiracleBerry because Toxic is still in existance on teams. Why, I'm not all too sure. All it does is negate Leftovers after the initial switch ._.

You're fine with Lax, though I believe two Curses + 'destruct will kill Skarm and would be a lot safer and more beneficial.

Your team is bashed by Zapdos. Most Zappys have Rest and a single Magneton is not going to help counter it much. In fact, Snorlax is the only pokemon that can effectively deal with electrics period. Honestly, you need a ground type or better special defense protection.

One final note: We know what synergy is, most decent players here have been playing the game since RBY and are not stupid. And Leftovers is seen everywhere.. nobody will contest that item as we all know it's the best.

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fuck this username is gay

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John
Orangutan Spouse
Member # 3143

posted 06-16-2003 06:58 PM      Profile for John     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not much time, so just a quick note:

quote:
Originally posted by TeLeFonE:
One final note: We know what synergy is, most decent players here have been playing the game since RBY and are not stupid.

I realize that, this initially was written for a different message board. I did not mean to imply anything by that, I probably should have taken that part out.

[ 06-16-2003, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: John ]

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TeLeFonE
X-treme rotary telephone
Member # 2293

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posted 06-16-2003 07:19 PM      Profile for TeLeFonE   Email TeLeFonE   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
K.. just checkin.

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fuck this username is gay

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Cesar
Farting Nudist
Member # 529

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posted 06-16-2003 09:12 PM      Profile for Cesar   Email Cesar   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
This particular method involves picking a single Pokemon and
designing a team around it. The purpose of designing a team in this way
is to create a team with great synergy in which that particular Pokemon
can be used to the best of its ability.

In terms of a team effort, your pokemon seem to do little to help eachother.

Spikes and lightscreen is a start, but you seem to be more focused on pokemon being able to KO the enemy by themselves rather then helping the team.

If this where a true team effort, I would spend more speed-reduction moves. Especially since overall your team is quite slow. Snorlax would have a tough time tring to BD and use a move before exploding, unless he is a kamikaze pokemon.

Then again, I have a 00ber-crappy win rate so I probably shouldn't be talking.

From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
John
Orangutan Spouse
Member # 3143

posted 06-17-2003 03:40 PM      Profile for John     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Alright, after battling some and reading the replies here, this team has a few major flaws. It's main problem is with electric Pokemon. Magneton can't counter them as well as I had hoped, and Snorlax can't play out his kamikaze role without leaving the rest of my team vulnerable.

Magneton (Genderless) @ Leftovers
Thunder Wave
Substitute
Thunderbolt
Hidden Power(Ice)

I'm sacrificing some sweep potential for better support and a longer life. Plus, now it actually does something against electrics without Rest.

Skarmory (Female) @ Leftovers
Attract
Whirlwind
Drill Peck
Rest

Sticking rest in instead, as TeLeFonE suggested.

Machamp (Male) @ Leftovers
Light Screen
Cross Chop
Hidden Power (Ghost)
Counter

Has been working ok for me, except the time when I countered too early, they switched in a Skarmory that turn and I used Cross Chop expecting them to just Whirlwind... they Drill Pecked.

Cloyster (Male) @ Polkadot Bow
Spikes
Explosion
Screech
Surf

Not sure if to just put in Ice Beam over Screech for more options.

Scyther (Male) @ Miracle Berry
Swords Dance
Hidden Power(Bug)
Endure
Reversal

Putting in Miracle Berry after losing horribly due to a Tbolt PAR...

Snorlax (Male) @ Leftovers
Belly Drum
Self Destruct
Body Slam
Earthquake

Working fine for the kamikaze role it was intended.

[ 06-21-2003, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: John ]

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John
Orangutan Spouse
Member # 3143

posted 06-21-2003 07:39 PM      Profile for John     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hm... ironically (referring to the synergy thing), I also do know the standards. Or I thought I did... do *good* people really use Giga Drain on a Gengar?

[ 06-21-2003, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: John ]

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Mewone
I have a pokemon as my username. I mean, come on.
Member # 1694

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posted 06-22-2003 10:20 PM      Profile for Mewone     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Most don't. Most don't see much of a reason for it, as he already has T-bolt for water types, and a Golem or something is usually taken care of by switching to a high HP water type, or hit in the face with Confuse Ray.

On a side note, I once made a Gengar with Destiny Bond, Endure, Confuse Ray, and Psychic, @Miracleberry. It really did a good job of messing with people's heads...

From: Azure Heights | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
John
Orangutan Spouse
Member # 3143

posted 06-23-2003 01:23 AM      Profile for John     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Because of my huge electric/fire weakness, I'm changing Scyther to:

Golem @ Leftovers
Counter
Earthquake
Explosion
Rock Slide

Counter should be effective against HP Ice, and I now have yet another kamikaze. Yet another change with little effect on the rest of the team.

This team has no synergy XXXXXXXXD.

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Bruno Maragato
Farting Nudist
Member # 2308

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posted 06-25-2003 02:19 PM      Profile for Bruno Maragato   Email Bruno Maragato   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Your team doesn't have the stay power to put up a fight against all those Restbells out there :/

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"hi i am very good at irc, i can script and even hack people on irc,but this real good hacker keeps hacking into me and changing my nick, his name is NickServ" ~ Some nub.

From: Brazil =O~~ | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged


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