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Author Topic: Spikes and Fangs
LordLocke
Farting Nudist
Member # 845

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posted 01-10-2003 04:49 AM      Profile for LordLocke   Author's Homepage   Email LordLocke   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Heh, I've been a bad little trainer...

I've recently began to begin digging the whole "Spikes" thing- I've really been getting sick of opponents doing unpunished switching time and time again, so I figured I wanted to do something about it.

Of course, I'm going to do a couple things different...

Here's the four Pokemon I know I want to use with this:

Forretress w/Scope Lens

Spikes
Rapid Spin
Explosion
Double Edge

Kinda straight-forward. Spikes is for spiking. Rapid Spin is for counter-spiking. Explosion is to go boom if Forretress is doomed, Double Edge is for if not quite yet. Scope Lens is there because the only thing better then Explosion is a CH Explosion

For the record, I like Cloyster more, but after watching, in a row, Jolteon, Mewtwo, Zapdos, Lanturn, and effing ELECTRODE all pull some kind of miracle OHKO before I could drop the spikes (CH Thunderbolt, landing the 60%-accurate Thunder, or in that one 'trode's case, CH THUNDER), I dumped it for Forret. Not many people START with something that's packing a fire attack, and at least I know that if Forret's hit with fire, it's GOING to die, not just a maybe that turns into a definate because of my god-awful luck.

Zapdos w/Leftovers

Drill Peck
Thunderbolt
Tunderwave
Whirlwind

Standard. I really couldn't think of any way better to do this one. However, the next Pokemon on my list...

Raticate w/Leftovers

Super Fang
Roar
Rest
Sleep Talk

You will never, ever, EVER come across a more annoying Raticate with this. I've watched this thing juggle a T-tar, Mewtwo, Houndoom, and Blissey for nearly the entirity of Raticate's PP, something no Raticate should be allowed to say. Super Fang is to rip a nice half a life bar out of anything, no mater how beefed they are. Roar is to psuedo-haze, force switches over Spikes, and allows me to be the absolutly most annoying git I could possibly be by bringing in a NEW target to Fang. Rest/Sleep Talk doesn't LOOK like a combo that belongs here. But trust me, no matter if you Super Fang, Roar, or Rest again, Raticate wins on the Talk. It's annoying as all HELL.

Finally, the last Pokemon I'm pretty sure I want here...

Alakazam w/Miracle Berry

Thunder Wave
Psychic
Ice Punch
Thunder Punch

Frankly, another Paralyzer, even one as frail as 'kazam can make Raticate particularly VILE. Also, it's a decent special-sweeper. I'm not sure if that is the best mix of two punches for Alakazam, but I know I like Ice for for a number of different Pokemon. I was also thinking of a different Pokemon for here, but I'm not terribly sure WHAT.

Finally, don't know what else to go with. Right now, I'm favoring...

Umbreon w/Lefovers

Mean Look
Toxic
Double Team
Baton Pass

To Toxi-trap and get Double Teams to BP to Raticate/Alakazam/Zapdos/Physical Sweeper. At times, he can be like having Double-Team on all of my Pokmeon... except not. Of course I named it Cat Gonk- spreading the DT-love wherever it can, and spitting vile poison at those who say 'nay'.

Machamp w/Lefovers

Light Screen
Earthquake
Cross Chop
Rock Slide

Standard (?) physical-sweeping Champ. I figured he's more durable then T-tar resistance-wise, so he might be a better pick. Also, he's better at forcing switches, not to mention can pick apart a Heal Beller (Preferrably, if I can trap one with Umby above, then pass it to Machamp... heh heh heh...)

Right now, the problem I see with using the above set of six is that I only got three Pokemon that can reliably kill (Forret is support-only, too much paralysis on team for Umby to Toxi-trap as a primary form of offense, Raticate can only finish an opponent off via spikes) and one of them is REALLY frail. Which is why I'm a little up in the air about my last two, although they've been doing ok so far (Especially when I can get soem DTs off Umby to Raticate)

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From: American Canyon | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Tghost
Farting Nudist
Member # 1418

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posted 01-10-2003 05:37 AM      Profile for Tghost   Author's Homepage   Email Tghost   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Your Raticate will do nothing. When you Sleep Talk Roar, it doesn't go last automatically. Raticate is reasonably fast. Hence, Roar will fail when used by Sleep Talk more often than not (ie, on everything slower than Raticate).

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From: Auckland, New Zealand | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pinsir_sama
Farting Nudist
Member # 2699

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posted 01-10-2003 08:39 AM      Profile for Pinsir_sama   Email Pinsir_sama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
oh yes, but a meanlook umbreon on so they can switch and get hurt by spikes. smooth [Roll Eyes]

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Sometimes, the fish devours the ants, and sometimes, the ants devour the fish-vietnamese proverb

From: Fullerton,CA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Donald
Bob the Builder
Member # 1551

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posted 01-10-2003 10:41 AM      Profile for Donald   Email Donald      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Forry: Yeah, that's one way to do it. Though I'm fond of giving it HP Bug, setting up the Spikes, switching around the Fire attack, and using it later to wreck Psychics. Keep that in mind if you're having Psyker problems.

Zapdos: meeh

Raticate: If it works, more power to you. As Tghost mentioned, you might run into some problems with Roar going first (essentially wasting a turn), but Umbry can help with that (see below).

Alakazam: No Recover? dotdotdot Put it in the Thunderpunch slot, you have a Zapdos.

Umbreon: Try to fit Curse in there somewhere, perhaps over Mean Look. Then you can pass Curses to Raticate, which aids its survivability AND gives you a better chance of doing something if you Sleep Talk a Roar.

Machamp: If you add in Curse and pass to Champy, then you should be OK with the Leftovers. If not, @ Blackbelt for the guaranteed OHKO on Blissey.

From: In your girl's panties | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
LordLocke
Farting Nudist
Member # 845

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posted 01-10-2003 11:35 AM      Profile for LordLocke   Author's Homepage   Email LordLocke   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Pinsir_sama:
oh yes, but a meanlook umbreon on so they can switch and get hurt by spikes. smooth [Roll Eyes]

Admittingly, Umby looks a little out of place, but he only serves two purposes- one is to get an optimum setup for Raticate or Zapdos to begin wrecking total HAVOC with a team, the other is to trap the Beller for Machamp to murder (While letting Machamp get a few benifits so that he can, in return, sweep in exchange.) I guees Mean Look might be a bit odd for this- I'll try something else, but I liked the stability of KNOWING what was stuck against my newly-DT'd Poke first.

Sleep Talk doesn't have Roar go last? Hmmm... that's one thing I guess Netbattle hasn't fixed yet [Razz] Anyways, I guess I'd switch Curse for DT- it still benifits Raticate- it's just only helping it and Machamp rather then all of them.

Of course, the whole gimmick was that Raticate could do a ton of damage Super Fanging half a team before he passed away, adding Spike Damage on top of it. With Curse, he could do more damage on a majority of the Pokemon with a max-attack STABed Return or Double Edge. Hmmmm... maybe something else over Sleep Talk/Rest. I liked having a recovery move on that Raticate, but unprotected Rest isn't favorable. Maybe a life-extending Reflect (or even DT just for it) and Return, Double Edge, or even Hyper Beam to finish off a hurting opponent, instead.

Super Fang
Roar
Reflect/Double Team
Return/DE/HBeam

As for the Alakazam, I'll make the change. I ment for it to be a mix para-platform/elemental sweeper, but I guess that is a bit silly...

[ 01-10-2003, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: LordLocke ]

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From: American Canyon | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
JP Nogueira
Farting Nudist
Member # 962

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posted 01-10-2003 02:40 PM      Profile for JP Nogueira   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
@Leftovers
Substitute
Super Fang
Hyper Beam
Double Team/Roar

What about this? Sub protect you from these boring status inducers. Super Fang/Hyper Beam for hard hitting. Double Team helps with Substitute and Hyper Beam recharge, but if you really need Roar, go for it [Smile]

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JP Noga
Gym Leader from Brazil

From: Brazil | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
LordLocke
Farting Nudist
Member # 845

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posted 01-10-2003 04:39 PM      Profile for LordLocke   Author's Homepage   Email LordLocke   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Small Update...

Did some testing with the new Umby, Raticate, and Alakazam...

Umbreon w/Leftovers: Double Team, Curse, Moonlight, Baton Pass

I actually kind like how this one worked- true, Umby can no longer kill, or ensure the death of a Heal Beller, but Curse lets Machamp own while letting Champ keep a slot for Light Screen (In return, making Champ nigh-invincible for five turns) Raticate and Zapdos are still the preferred DT recipiants.

I miss Toxi-trapping, but Machamp is now literally worth his weight in Gold on my team, so I'll stick with this one for now.

Raticate w/Leftovers- Sub, Roar, Super Fang, Swagger

Back to the old annoyance- Raticate still wants to get some DTs, but once again, it can be an effing MENACE, particularly with Sub to keep the statuses away. However, I realized that I didn't need to give Raticate another attack- I needed to ensure that he can roar and Fang as many different Pokemon as he could to let Alakazam, Zapdos, or Machamp kill them off in a single hit. Anyways, by the time Swagger's done, Raticate's Roaring them out ANYWAYS, and even with a Sub out, there's not many physical attacks that won't break should one break through of the DT's Raticate hopefully got BP'd, thanks to Raticate's shoddy survival skills.

Alakazam w/Miracleberry- ???

I tried two different Alakazams- one with the three typical Alakazam moves (Thunder Wave, Psychic, Recover) and one with the three Punches and Psychic, and both really only did the same thing- sweep post-Raticate. As a paralysis platform, Alakazam is too frail. About the only thing he did decently was eventually bait out a Heal Beller. As such, I'm thinking either going the with scrubby Elemental-Punching Alakazam, or switching 'zam for Starmie, since Starmie can actually SURVIVE the act of being a para-platform thanks to Confuse Ray.

As for Forretress... I dunno. I could do the HP Bug thing. I didn't really thing about it because I literally slapped that Forret together after crying as Cloyster scrubbed for the sixth time in a row without getting a single spikes off. I could do that. When I go to make this team on the cart, however, it'll be a pain to breed.

On a side note, no one in my local area uses Spike teams, so when I make Forret on my cart, it'd have no real need for the otherwise-useless Rapid Spin, but I'm not sure what to put over it. Any suggestions?

[ 01-10-2003, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: LordLocke ]

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Return of the Mankey's Uncle.

It's not shopping if I don't plan to pay for it!

From: American Canyon | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
JP Nogueira
Farting Nudist
Member # 962

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posted 01-13-2003 02:30 PM      Profile for JP Nogueira   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Reflect?
Helps Alakazam & Raticate, and powers up Zapdos & Umbreon against its phisical disavantages.

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JP Noga
Gym Leader from Brazil

From: Brazil | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
RLPSJStyle
Orangutan Spouse
Member # 2816

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posted 01-19-2003 05:07 PM      Profile for RLPSJStyle     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Raticate@Miraberry
~SFang
~DTeam
~Rest
~Roar

Does same thing if you can set up.

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:| ©

From: Indiana | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged


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