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Author Topic: Discussion: Evasion
Theman14
Farting Nudist
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posted 11-27-2001 06:45 PM      Profile for Theman14   Email Theman14   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I posted this @ TPM and has received 55 replies and is still being discussed. Lets see what you guys think...

Evasion, considered cheap by some and a good tactic by others. Most regular battles don't ban it and tournaments usually allow one pokemon to have an evasion move. The most common evasion moves are Minimize and Double Team. These moves have been used on pokemon that can Baton Pass, and pokemon that can be annoying such as Blissey. Reasons against evasion are that it is cheap and is hard to counter because some people do not use any kind of a hazer. Others feel it should be used because it is counterable and people that use it generally don't equip every pokemon with an evasion move, just one. What are your feelings on evasion? What pokemon do you use with evading moves and what are the sets?


Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cesar
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posted 11-27-2001 08:02 PM      Profile for Cesar   Email Cesar   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Umbreon is a bitch as evasion.

I don't give a shit if its just for mean look, but if DT shows along, the trainer deserves a 2x4 up his ass.


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
DrFuko
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posted 11-27-2001 08:35 PM      Profile for DrFuko   Email DrFuko   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Evation is definitely totally counterable, even without hazing or pseudohazing. Ever hear of the expression, Curse eats Double Team? How bout foresight? Foresight has been VERY useful for battling DTers. Psych Uppers?

Besides, full evation is not the end of the world. After 6 evasive moves, your opponent´s accuracy is about 40%, so its not so bad. During those 6 moves, YOU can do something to counter it. Only a dumbass would try to counter it by doing offensive moves.

What I am against, though is OHKO moves. They are just plain cheap. 30% hit rate is too high on them. Plus, there are no real way to counter those moves 100% of the time.

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Noone expects.... THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!


From: Monterrey, Mexico | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrazonmasterX
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posted 11-27-2001 08:56 PM      Profile for DrazonmasterX   Email DrazonmasterX   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I beleive that evation is a pretty good tatic but some time people worry about a pokemon when they ate doing the move and hopefully they will take out the pokemon before they will be almost invarbule. all I say is use iy but only on pokemon which can use this effectivy

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"I'll give this city something to talk about Sayiaman!"

From: Philadelphia | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Donald
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posted 11-27-2001 10:16 PM      Profile for Donald   Email Donald      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Evade Passing with Umbreon is fun *takes the stick and shoves it up Cesar's ass*.

Especially when you can sweep with it. And it beats (check that: rapes) most of the things that make up the current metagame. Such as Whirlwind/Roar and OHKOs.


From: In your girl's panties | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cesar
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posted 11-27-2001 11:08 PM      Profile for Cesar   Email Cesar   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Evade Passing with Umbreon is fun
Not for the opponent

/me has many stories of BP, DT'ing Umbreon's sweeping my team;.;


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Silver_Persian
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posted 11-28-2001 12:52 AM      Profile for Silver_Persian   Email Silver_Persian   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Why ban something that is totally counterable...:/

Its similar to going 'curse should be banned because its difficult to handle', it is counterable, although sometimes difficult.

I agree with DrFuko about OHKO's

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HAHE
ROBBLE
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8D


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Cubert
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posted 11-28-2001 11:19 AM      Profile for Cubert        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Umbreon@leftovers
Attract
double team
mean look
baton pass


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GSbot nick: Holy_Cow

From: England | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cubert
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posted 11-28-2001 12:19 PM      Profile for Cubert        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Gah, and I just lost on GSbot because of one of those umbreons

[ 11-28-2001: Message edited by: Cubert ]

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GSbot nick: Holy_Cow


From: England | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
SpaceDog
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posted 11-28-2001 12:45 PM      Profile for SpaceDog     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cubert:
Umbreon@leftovers
Attract
double team
mean look
baton pass

Confuse ray works so much better than attract here. It can be pseudopassed, and doesn't depend upon gender(this especially helps out against Suicunes).


From: Laurel, MD | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
ThumbsOfSteel
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posted 11-28-2001 07:04 PM      Profile for ThumbsOfSteel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A healing move wouldn't hurt either.

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"If you put that post in 00bersig, you owe every post ever made by MK a 6-foot monument made of platinum." -StarCaliber
"I'm pretty sure it says in there somewhere that Iron Tailing Mewtwos are half price." -Uiru
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From: Nowhere on a normal map | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Theman14
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posted 11-28-2001 07:09 PM      Profile for Theman14   Email Theman14   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cubert, my Umbreon with a similar set swept you :P
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Cubert
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posted 11-28-2001 08:40 PM      Profile for Cubert        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, I started with a pretty stupid team before though, I mean, I used steelix ;p

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GSbot nick: Holy_Cow

From: England | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
psykloak1
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posted 11-29-2001 12:25 PM      Profile for psykloak1   Author's Homepage   Email psykloak1   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Silver_Persian:
Why ban something that is totally counterable...:/

Why ban anything? game freak put every move in their for a reason. if it was genna be cheap then let gamefreak decide that and not add that move but the did add them so get over it.

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-psyk
NeptuneCircle.com


From: Boston | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Musketeer
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posted 11-29-2001 02:14 PM      Profile for Musketeer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Its really difficult to call a move, or moveset *cheap* Cheap implies that there is no way around it, and whenever you come up against it you are going to lose the majority of the time. Evasion moves don't neccessarily mean that they are going to make a pokemone invincible, and with baton passing, and status effects being an intrical part of the pokemon game, evasion is by far can not be considered cheap. I dare anyone to go up against a snorlax with curse without a pseudo/hazer on their team. The snorlax alone will 6-0 the guys entire team. So, many people put a hazer on their team to adjust for such a pokemon. Considering pseudo/hazers do the same thing they would do to a snorlax with curse against doubleteamers they are an intrical part of any team. Evasion is a stragetical part of the pokemon game, if you do not have a pokemone that can counter them on your team, then its your own fault, and will probably lose, but, you also probably lose a lot anyways because of your inability to pseudohaze or haze the more common cursers. Is evasion cheap, haha, nowhere close.
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*HeRaCr0sS*
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posted 12-01-2001 11:56 PM      Profile for *HeRaCr0sS*     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by DrFuko:
What I am against, though is OHKO moves. They are just plain cheap. 30% hit rate is too high on them. Plus, there are no real way to counter those moves 100% of the time.

Substitute, Protect, Detect...

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- The Horny Bug
"heh that guy is a n00b he uses selfdestruct over explosion XD" - Theman15 on a Snorlax


From: Sexyville | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
NidoKing
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posted 12-02-2001 12:28 AM      Profile for NidoKing     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DrFuko:
What I am against, though is OHKO moves. They are just plain cheap. 30% hit rate is too high on them. Plus, there are no real way to counter those moves 100% of the time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Substitute, Protect, Detect...


And let's not forget the counter for OHKOs that is right under our noses... evasion It's not an absolute counter, but it can't hurt to cut that 30% hit rate down even more.


From: West Virginia | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Silver_Persian
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posted 12-02-2001 12:34 AM      Profile for Silver_Persian   Email Silver_Persian   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by *HeRaCr0sS*:

Substitute, Protect, Detect...


Protect and detect are just wasting time, and substitute is not always possible, OHKO MOVES ARE CHEAP

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HAHE
ROBBLE
ROBBLE
8D


Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
MK
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posted 12-02-2001 03:37 AM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is something I said on another topic:

To recapitulate, the only ban I even consider semi-valid at all is "The Cheese Trio." Anyway, the game is balanced out more now. There is haze & psych up & roar/whirlwind, etc...
Those who complain of Double Team & Horn Drill only complain because of the fact their own team can't defeat it.

Argument: "HE USED A HORN dRILL in tEAM and eVEERYtIME he USED IT IT WORKED, no FAIR!

True, it may seem unfair, but, the exact opposite could've happened. Horn Drill could've missed everytime letting you defeat the OHKO team.

So, the user of a OHKO team is really taking a gamble. If it pays off it pays off, if it fails it fails. It all boils down to 255, and, if the OHKO team beats you, it was still a gamble the opponent took. A good opponent knows that a OHKO team can be risky if that's all you've got, but excellent if it works...

Anyway, in the end, if the opponent is willing to take that chance of using a OHKO team, and you lose, it's still your fault. Thanks to G/S/C, moves have been balanced out, and, almost nothing is cheap anymore, baring The Cheese Trio...

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Yo Boy! Yo don´t need no Ledian! Yo need an freaking Mheu2! -DrFuko


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SDShamshel
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posted 12-02-2001 01:25 PM      Profile for SDShamshel   Email SDShamshel   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cubert:
Yeah, I started with a pretty stupid team before though, I mean, I used steelix ;p

Not stupid enough.

I lead with Yanma.

Wuss.

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Pretty de Cure Cure
Futari wa Precure


From: Tokyo-3 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
DarkLickitung
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posted 12-02-2001 03:32 PM      Profile for DarkLickitung   Email DarkLickitung   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And let's not forget the counter for OHKOs that is right under our noses... evasion It's not an absolute counter, but it can't hurt to cut that 30% hit rate down even more.

Statistically, OHKO moves are actually the best way to take out an opponent once you see him DTing; less of a numerical drop between accuracies.

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Nine out of ten Zacks endorse stupidity.


From: See You Auntie. | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged


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