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Author Topic: Changing pokes - #212 Scizor
raticata
Farting Nudist
Member # 1994

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posted 09-08-2001 10:09 AM      Profile for raticata     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey people.

Having done two underused reports, I have decided to try something a little different.

Many pokes in gsc seem to have only one plausible set, and although certain people say that they should only have one set, you all know my attitude on using the unexpected which is why I am going to give other options for pokes with seemingly only one purpose.


As you will have seen from the title, I have chosen to discuss Scizor. There are generally only 2 things people think about Scizor:

1) Gets hartley-hared by any fire attack.
2) Is a baton passer.

And naturally, they are right. Despite its relatively average special defense, 4* multiple is a lot, as chari/drago/tyran well know. Secondly, it learns swords' dance, agility and baton pass, so why not make it a passer?


Well firstly, let's analyse its stats.

Maximum Stats: 343 HP (T79)
358 Attack (T3)
298 Defense (T25)
228 Speed (T90)
208 Special Attack (T106)
258 Special Defense (T62)


This is my point, these stats are so fantastic why not make it a straight forward fighter, or even semi-passer? The attack is second only to tyran and drago, while it has a great defense. The speed is low, but there are still quite a few slower than it. The special attack is even lower but as this won't bother using them why care? The special defense is average, and thus combined with its high straight forward defense gives it considerable staying power.

The next thing to discuss is its weaknesses. FIRE FIRE FIRE I hear you cry. But people make far too much of a deal out of this, tyran falls to a cross chop, drago to a decent icebeam, and yet they still frequent the teams posted. Also, as for pokes which sport fireblast as an unexpected attack, they seem to be dying out in popularity also. Once the fire poke/firebreather on the other team is extinguished, you can bring in Scizor. Also, assuming my guide is correct:

IT HAS NO OTHER WEAKNESSES.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, good defensive stats and virtually no weaknesses mean this can battle for aeons.


So what moves can our new age fighter use? It really has a fine selection.

Breeding is usually considered only useful for baton pass, but instead we can have the lovely safeguard! This is truly a great move, we don't want our buzzing champ to get stuck in a paracontraction mess (Does safeguard prevent attraction??). Also, there is the possibility of light screen! This reduces, I think, a fireblast/thrower/punch/HP to a mere 2* and with an average special defense, it is no longer such a big deal.

Physical attacks don't tend to get used on it, but there is always counter for some nice surprising. Reversal could be handy, seeing how this poke takes a long time to get beat down, so when your opponent thinks they have finally weakened it enough you can hit them with a near 200 base damage, and running off a 358 attack will certainly hurt, and fighting is s.e vs 5 types!!


Now let's see what it can learn. Agility, baton passed or not, raises its speed to a lovely 456, creating even more worries for the opponent. Swords' dance raises its attack to max 999 after two turns, and so will combine well with an HP for increased super effective slaying. Focus energy combined with a scope lens can create a lovely number of critical hits, and could even be baton passed! Steel wing, bug HP, and return all have base damages of around 100 so are good for general damage. They are however limited in s-e-ness so you may want a ground/rock/fighting HP over a bug one.
This could even work as a thief, with a mintyrest to use up before it steals, coupled with a stat-raiser and a decent attack.

So here are a few alternative sets to fully baton passing:


+scope lens
focus energy
return
steel wing
ground hp

Full out attacking. BIFF!


+mira
safeguard/light screen
2 of steel wing/return/physical HP
agility/swords' dance

Quite conservative, a pseudo passing move, a stat raiser: huge attack or high speed, and two decent attacks for sweeping.


However this is what I would suggest for the beginner in poke changing:

+mira
baton pass
agility/swords' dance
2 of steel wing/return/any physical HP

This keeps it as a baton passer, but also introduces more attacks which allow it to sweep more.


Anyway , hope this helps

-Raticata

- - - - -
A legendary is only legendary if it has a legendary set.


From: bhsla | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Uiru
Sketch Molester
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posted 09-08-2001 10:42 AM      Profile for Uiru   Author's Homepage   Email Uiru   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I once got whupped by a Scizor that I was expecting to Baton Pass for the whole match... and it was an attacker. ^_^;;;

Anyway, I agree, Scizor has more uses than just Baton Passing.
~Uiru

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AFRO NOOOOOOO!!!


From: the floating castle of Newfoundland | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Automaton
Farting Nudist
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posted 09-08-2001 12:36 PM      Profile for Automaton   Author's Homepage   Email Automaton   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nothing stops Attraction short of being the wrong sex or genderless. Tested and Proven. Not even substitute stops it.
From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Dark_Herakurosu
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posted 09-08-2001 01:57 PM      Profile for Dark_Herakurosu   Author's Homepage   Email Dark_Herakurosu   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Scizor is indeed a great poke. With that Attack, it can completely demolish Charizard and Dragonite. How? HP Rock. It also learns an Endure/Reversal combo, so T-Tar is gone. But I have a question about it. Now, Scyther's max speed is 308. Scizor's max Speed is 228. So when Scyther evolves, do its stats actually decrease? Cause I was thinking if you raised a Scyther with max speed, and then traded it w/ Metal Coat, the Scizor would have above max speed.

- - - - -
There is more money being spent on breast implants and Viagra today than on Alzheimer's research. This means that by 2040, there should be a large elderly population with perky boobs, huge erections, and absolutely no recollection of what to do with them.

Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Automaton
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posted 09-08-2001 02:02 PM      Profile for Automaton   Author's Homepage   Email Automaton   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
When a Pokemon evolves, it's DVs stay the same, but it's base stats change. Therefore, it's impossible to exceed max stats for any given level. You could take an electrode with max speed, (378) and somehow use a game shark to change it into a Shuckle, and it would indeed have 108 speed, which is what Shuckle's speed is at a max DV.
From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
raticata
Farting Nudist
Member # 1994

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posted 09-08-2001 02:20 PM      Profile for raticata     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wow attract looks good, so why not incorporate onto our Scizor?

This gives me an idea for an anti-fire set:

+quick claw/hard stone
agility
light screen
attract
rock HP

You agility, swords' dance is a bit riskier as it attracts switch forcers/hazers more, then when the fire switches in you set up light screen/attract, then the other the next turn, then smash em with a super effective, possibly 4* rock HP!!!

- - - - -
A legendary is only legendary if it has a legendary set.


From: bhsla | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dark_Herakurosu
Farting Nudist
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posted 09-08-2001 04:32 PM      Profile for Dark_Herakurosu   Author's Homepage   Email Dark_Herakurosu   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
1. Scizor dun get Light Screen.
2. Me dun like da only 1 attack.

Just forget what I said about HP Rock for countering Fires. Even at max damage, it leaves Charizard with 20 Hp, but Charizard's Flamethrower is guaranteed to OHKO Scizor. LOfuckingL! Even a Magby's Fire Punch can OHKO Scizor! Anyway, the solution to saving Scizor is to switch out if ya see a Fire-type. It can take out pretty much anything else. Anyway, here's a good attacking Scizor set:

HP Rock
Endure
Reversal
Swords Dance/Agility
@Quick Claw/Hard Stone

Only pokes resistant to both Rock and Fighting are Nidoking/Queen.

- - - - -
There is more money being spent on breast implants and Viagra today than on Alzheimer's research. This means that by 2040, there should be a large elderly population with perky boobs, huge erections, and absolutely no recollection of what to do with them.


Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Biffster
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posted 09-08-2001 11:24 PM      Profile for Biffster     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dark_Herakurosu: 1. Scizor dun get Light Screen.

Lies.


From: Viridian City (On the road at least) | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Donald
Bob the Builder
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posted 09-08-2001 11:25 PM      Profile for Donald   Email Donald      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Herakurosu:
1. Scizor dun get Light Screen.

Yes it does. In fact, you can get BP, Safeguard, and Light Screen on a baby Scyther quite easily. Oh Ledian...


From: In your girl's panties | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ancient Egyptian Cat-Gonk
Happy Good Times Fortune Happiness Happity Hocks Cat-Gonk Happifier
Member # 14

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posted 09-09-2001 02:08 AM      Profile for Ancient Egyptian Cat-Gonk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A moveset I used back in the old days was Fury Cutter, Swords Dance, Double Team and Rest. It was intended for use late-game, when the Fire types and Skarm were out of the way. Crystal somewhat's messed it over though, now that Roar is a necessity due to ML Umbreon.

It would appear to me that given Scizor's rather restricted attack range but massive non-attack list, that he's probably better off with only one attack anyway.

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From: Perth, Western Australia. | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Automaton
Farting Nudist
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posted 09-09-2001 05:05 AM      Profile for Automaton   Author's Homepage   Email Automaton   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:

1. Scizor dun get Light Screen.
2. Me dun like da only 1 attack.

Okay, I don't think you realize what you're doing.

1) Talking like Tony Danza with a mouthful of a powerful local anesthetic does not make you seem cool, or stylish.

2) Using the above "dialect" whilst simultaneously talking out your ass makes you look even stupider.

I'd research both the game of Pokémon and the english language before you do any more damage to your reputation here. (If it is actually possible to do so.)


From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
ThumbsOfSteel
Farting Nudist
Member # 1922

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posted 09-09-2001 07:33 AM      Profile for ThumbsOfSteel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Scizor makes a great attacker IMO

@king's rock/mint berry
Bug HP
Return
agility
Wing attack/Rest

Agility first, as he needs it, then just pound away.

- - - - -
"If you put that post in 00bersig, you owe every post ever made by MK a 6-foot monument made of platinum." -StarCaliber
"I'm pretty sure it says in there somewhere that Iron Tailing Mewtwos are half price." -Uiru
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From: Nowhere on a normal map | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jolt135
Farting Nudist
Member # 1974

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posted 09-09-2001 07:38 AM      Profile for Jolt135   Author's Homepage   Email Jolt135   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
D_H: The total stats don't decrease, they stay the same.

Scizor's total stats: 1693
Scyther's toal stats: 1693

For this reason, I count Scyther with the fully evolved Pokemon for the purpose of stat comparing. It has a partially different use, seeing that it can reliably use Endure/Reversal without needing an Agility. Of course, Scyther has a lot more than just that 1 weakness.


From: Woodbridge, VA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
raticata
Farting Nudist
Member # 1994

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posted 09-09-2001 09:27 AM      Profile for raticata     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I thought so, cmsnrub25 I used your guide, donald.

I attack is a bit dodgy IMO, if you come up against someone who is resistant, but then again bug and steel are not a lovely combo.

I still think an HP is good, as with that good an attack, but as it can stay for quite a while, fury cutter could well work.

God Bless Ledian!

Anyway, it's nice to see some debating about this poke.

- - - - -
A legendary is only legendary if it has a legendary set.


From: bhsla | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Automaton
Farting Nudist
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posted 09-09-2001 11:48 AM      Profile for Automaton   Author's Homepage   Email Automaton   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jolt135:
D_H: The total stats don't decrease, they stay the same.

Scizor's total stats: 1693
Scyther's toal stats: 1693

For this reason, I count Scyther with the fully evolved Pokemon for the purpose of stat comparing. It has a partially different use, seeing that it can reliably use Endure/Reversal without needing an Agility. Of course, Scyther has a lot more than just that 1 weakness.


I like to call it a "lateral evolution" for that very reason.


From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
EspeonNidoking
warcraft 3
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posted 09-09-2001 03:42 PM      Profile for EspeonNidoking   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i have a scizor Moveset...

in terms of the discussion however, i think it's all been said....here's my moveset:

Scizor (Leftovers/Miracleberry)
-Return
-Sword's Dance
-Agility
-Baton Pass

i think that if you use it as a starter...it should hold Miracleberry...

good luck!



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"Yeah, my pubic hair has dollar signs trimmed in it!

$$Bling Bling$$" ~Jman


From: Summit,New Jersey, Tampa, Fl, and Rindge, NH | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Automaton
Farting Nudist
Member # 1234

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posted 09-09-2001 04:24 PM      Profile for Automaton   Author's Homepage   Email Automaton   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
EspeonNidoking:
"In the Warrior's Code there's no surrender, though his body says stop, his spirit cries never"-Survivor

THIS IS THE POLICY ME AND MY NIDOKING WILL FOLLOW UNTIL WE REACH THE TOP.


*sig deleted due to absurd homosexuality*

Anyways, since Scizor isn't baton passing, you might consider putting Sub on there.


From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Velox
Farting Nudist
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posted 09-16-2001 01:01 PM      Profile for Velox   Author's Homepage   Email Velox   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My all-out offensive Scizor:

Return
Steel Wing
Swords Dance
Agility
w/ Miracleberry

Steel Wing covers the odd Ghost or Rock types that Return can't dent. Sure, he's useless against other Steels, but the only attack that would solve that for him would be Reversal... -_-

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-Mysterious Priest Velox


From: Philadelphia, PA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
raticata
Farting Nudist
Member # 1994

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posted 09-16-2001 04:15 PM      Profile for raticata     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hmm, two stat raisers does tempt roarers, BUT:

you agility, they hit you. You swords' dance, they hit you, then switch in a roarer/hazer. Agility should allow first hit, which will be a 100 base running off a 700 odd attack =

NICE!!

- - - - -
A legendary is only legendary if it has a legendary set.


From: bhsla | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mr.E
Farting Nudist
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posted 09-17-2001 01:00 AM      Profile for Mr.E     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's not very nice when they switch in during that first stat boost or the one who switches in happens to be Skarmory.

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MickHale18: nevermind, I'll pull out for a second
MickHale18: *pulls out finger*

From: Munchkin Land, Oz | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged


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