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Author Topic: Sharking's Ethicality Revisited
Twinkle
I'm feeling fat and sassy~!
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posted 08-24-2001 05:13 PM      Profile for Twinkle        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Reference: Page 87 of the paperback edition of The Little Prince.

Sharkers are really the ones missing out on training their Pokémon. It's the time you waste that makes them so special. I once made the mistake of duplicating a Pokémon at level fifty to test movesets, and training both of them up to level 100. Now I can't bring myself to release one of them, and they've been traded from my Red game to my Yellow game to my Silver game to my Crystal game. I know I _should_ get rid of one of them, but I've spent too much time on training both of them and just can't do it. If I had sharked it out of thin air and then cloned it I certainly wouldn't have this problem.

- - - - -
Hich loch faauto noxlattoyen.


From: Brinstar | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Zerot
I pay schoolgirls to verbally abuse me.
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posted 08-24-2001 05:41 PM      Profile for Zerot   Author's Homepage   Email Zerot   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jolt135:
And how did this post come to be a talk about whether $134 bills are legal?

When someone compared sharking to making $134 dollar bills.


From: Lizton, Indiana | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged
The Great Dreamer
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posted 08-24-2001 05:51 PM      Profile for The Great Dreamer   Email The Great Dreamer   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
IceHawk,
"Really, could you be any MORE racial?"
I was making a generalization about the customer male base of strip clubs, not males in general. You where way too hasty in judging me for a racist, seems you have issues with people having a problem with you and your lady...
...anyway, don't snap at me...

PikaCharma,
Nice site, BTW...
Yes, I know alot about strippers, I live in Vegas, chances are you're bound to date or befriend a stripper sooner or later, go figure...
Seems your friend works in a very classy cabaret, high class clubs like those everyone walks to the bank happy because there are plenty of customers.
Here in Vegas, there are so many strip joints and the competition is so harsh that some dancers have problems in certain clubs.
*looks at your pic *
...and that's TGD as in The Great Dreamer to you, not TCG...

Gloomboy,
"You anti-sharkers are people who can't distant the metagame from in-game and thus need to take a look at yourselves."
...er...no, we just play the game the way it was meant to be, we don't break the rules, we don't cheat and we Play Pokémon.
You, Strategists, however are people that are too lazy or do not understand how and why the game works the way it does and since you're pampered by simulators and bots you cheat in order to make Pokémon like the simulator game experience, trying to make Pokémon a game that is not...

j-br,
"I would just like to point out i don't own a gameshark and never will. I would much prefer to develop a team then breed and train it up properly rather than just shark it into existence."
Now, you see this IS a trainer!
That is a true Pokémon player right there!
Someone give this man a medal!
*gives you a 5 in your rating*

[ 08-24-2001: Message edited by: The Great Dreamer ]

- - - - -
"Pokemon, no matter what anyone says, is not just about link battles. PBS is not Pokemon." -Mr. K


From: Las Vegas were everyone uses Mimic & Metronome! | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Subtallica
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posted 08-24-2001 09:58 PM      Profile for Subtallica     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The people who are so strict to the in game rules sound just so ignorant, from reading all of this you can make a general assumption that people like TGD are basically sayin anyone who dupes, uses a gameshark and lower them scum, read what you post people, if you have to be so anal about a game, wheres the fun...OMG i need another Ice Beam TM to make my moveset...but i cant cheat so ill keep Bubble Beam...really people, its not that important

Its funny, how the people who dont cheat or anything say anyone who touches a Gameshark as people who cant play, "we are pampered" because to us the more important part of hte game is the Trainer vs Trainer Battle, not in game stuff...The real purpose of the game is to create the strongest team possible to your liking, and from there, you battle..so if i need another EarthQuake TM, theres no way im guna start over a different game and go through it, just to get it, its not worth it at all...
The real point of the game is to have fun...

- - - - -
The ingorance in your words merely reflects your own ignorance - MK


From: Long Island, NY | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
IceHawk78
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posted 08-25-2001 12:12 AM      Profile for IceHawk78   Author's Homepage   Email IceHawk78   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
TGD:
Issues with me and my lady? No, I am just sick of all the people that make comments like that, and just assumed that you were one of them. Sorry if I pegged you wrong. Geez, I just cannot believe though how many people are offended by cross-racial couples...


Gruco:
The reason that you probably agree with TGD's sig is that it is quoting you. And I usually agree with myself.

[ 08-25-2001: Message edited by: IceHawk78 ]


From: Ohio | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Zerot
I pay schoolgirls to verbally abuse me.
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posted 08-25-2001 12:20 AM      Profile for Zerot   Author's Homepage   Email Zerot   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I always agree with myself, because I am always right.

*nose grows 50 yards*


From: Lizton, Indiana | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged
Manuel Calavera
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posted 08-25-2001 06:13 AM      Profile for Manuel Calavera     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I say it's a time-saver, as long as everything is nice and legal. Some people may say, "HEY! Your game is sharked! Your timer is 999:59!", but no. I got it like that after many hours of playing Dodrio Mode.

- - - - -
Gates is the Saddam Hussein of the consumer technology world. ~ Mr.K

From: Newcastle, Home of Geordies, Brown Ale and The Wildhearts | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jolt135
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posted 08-25-2001 08:46 AM      Profile for Jolt135   Author's Homepage   Email Jolt135   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cool! This is the #3 most popular topic in Sakaki Tower history! Just 13 more replies and I'll have #1!

Anyway, time for another reiteration. When you counterfeit $134 bills, that is indeed like sharking illegalities: anyone could catch you. On the other hand, sharking LEGAL things is like making $50 bills that can't be distinguished from the real ones. On my games, my sharking is so complete that NO ONE would know where I sharked. I keep track of ID Nos. for ALL the games I start, and so if I have someone impossible to get, I just hack ID Nos. and OT Names! I even have sets of "Backup DVs" for when I want to shark them but not get caught by anyone. Of course, if there ever WERE any tournaments around here, I wouldn't need the DV sharking. I'd just set DVs equal to the best I've ever caught in that species, except for Hidden Power-ers.

*cuts the $134 bill into 6700 pieces*
*picks one of them up*

That's my shred-of-a-bill on the subject this time around.


From: Woodbridge, VA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Great Dreamer
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posted 08-25-2001 02:18 PM      Profile for The Great Dreamer   Email The Great Dreamer   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
IceHawk,
I know, people are so dumb.
Not me though, my penis does not discriminate...

Subtallica,
Don't call me ignorant, it is YOU who don't UNDERSTAND how the game is SUPPOSED to be played that are IGNORANT...
You don't have a TM? TRADE for it, because that's how the CREATOR of Pokémon WANTS you to do, Satoshi Tajiri.
The game is NOT about ISOLATED link battles, it is about the PERFORMANCE of TRADING and TRAINING on link battles.
Just because YOU don't understand this concept, either because you are too LAZY or are too STUPID does not mean that the players that play by the RULES are ignorant.
The point of ANY game is to have FUN by the RULES, and Strategists are breaking those rules, they are playing their own little game using a hacking device and elements of Pokémon but they are sure as NOT playing HELL Pokémon...and if that is what you want, play a nameless hacked game using Pokémon elements, that's fine with me, I got no problem with that but DON'T refer to it or treat it as playing Pokémon because it's not, don't treat CHEATING as defaut behaviour within the game enviroment.
It's simply bullshit and plain wrong...

- - - - -
"Pokemon, no matter what anyone says, is not just about link battles. PBS is not Pokemon." -Mr. K


From: Las Vegas were everyone uses Mimic & Metronome! | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Artie Cuno
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posted 08-25-2001 11:45 PM      Profile for Artie Cuno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
*looks at the topic* Woah, this thing is big... *posts*
OK. Here's the deal. Trainer A has been playing for weeks, hand-raising his/her unsharked, uncheated Pokemon which he hatched himself to level 100 by fighting the elite five, over and over. He/she fights Trainer B, who has six sharked, max-stat, max stat EXP pokemon with the best attacks of their types (Ho-Oh with Sacred Fire, et al). B and A fight, but B sharked so his Pokemon were invincible. Guess who won? The sharker who spent all of an hour on his team. This has happened to me, people, and it drives me nuts. Once, a guy sharked his magikarp and swept my entire team with it >_< It drove me up a frickin' wall! It was level five, too... Talk about humiliation. Poor Amelia... poor Casper...

- - - - -
Piss off not the kittens, lest they claw your balls off.

From: A box in a swamp. With your sister. | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
SDShamshel
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posted 08-26-2001 01:03 AM      Profile for SDShamshel   Email SDShamshel   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I just find it hilarious TGD was called TCG.

The Great Dreamer: The Trading Card Game.

I don't think anyone would buy that.

- - - - -
Pretty de Cure Cure
Futari wa Precure


From: Tokyo-3 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
PikaCharma
I scanned my boobs and then said I was leaving and never coming back. OOPS!
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posted 08-26-2001 01:19 AM      Profile for PikaCharma   Author's Homepage   Email PikaCharma   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by SDShamshel:
I just find it hilarious TGD was called TCG.

The Great Dreamer: The Trading Card Game.

I don't think anyone would buy that.


::laughs:: Sorry. St00pid typo on my part. Just so used to typing TCG in relation to Pokemon.

And Cuno, WTF kinda sharking did the guy do? Unless he cooked up something exceedingly illegal, I can't imagine sweeping much of anything with a Magikrap. He boost the stats or what?

- - - - -
Pikacharma's Bottomless Pit -- Vote 4 Mike, see a dead Togepi, and take the Pokemon Purity test!

"There's no such thing as a soul. It's just something made up to scare us kids, like the boogieman or Michael Jackson." -- Bart Simpson


From: Never Land | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Zerot
I pay schoolgirls to verbally abuse me.
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posted 08-26-2001 08:21 AM      Profile for Zerot   Author's Homepage   Email Zerot   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by PikaCharma:
::And Cuno, WTF kinda sharking did the guy do? Unless he cooked up something exceedingly illegal, I can't imagine sweeping much of anything with a Magikrap. He boost the stats or what?


*is making a GS team involving BPing to Karp*


From: Lizton, Indiana | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jolt135
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posted 08-26-2001 10:31 AM      Profile for Jolt135   Author's Homepage   Email Jolt135   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Two things:

1. Fighting Missingno doesn't get you 99 of an item, it adds 128. It sets the first bit of D328 to 1.

2. How come TGD never seems to comment on my posts? He's supposed to be the leader of the other side of this debate!


From: Woodbridge, VA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Zerot
I pay schoolgirls to verbally abuse me.
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posted 08-26-2001 11:39 AM      Profile for Zerot   Author's Homepage   Email Zerot   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jolt135:
2. How come TGD never seems to comment on my posts? He's supposed to be the leader of the other side of this debate!

When he sees something he can't disprove, he just doesn't acknowledge it.


From: Lizton, Indiana | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged
Digital Kaizeren
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posted 08-26-2001 09:02 PM      Profile for Digital Kaizeren   Author's Homepage   Email Digital Kaizeren   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've been reading this topic and have been laughing my ars off at all these pathetic comments.

What is so wrong with sharking up a game? At least the sharkers don't spend hours on end (Like I use to before I discovered gameshark...) training. Some people don't have time to mindlessly go through the elite 5 over and over and over again, degrading their senses and just plain old wasting their life when they could be doing something much more fulfilling.

Sharkers either shark to get themselves around this crap, or to bluntly cheat and get perfect Pokemon. Or maybe they just use gameshark to see the hidden things in games. Or just play around and have fun, there's a lot of fun things to do on a gameshark. I just find it so pathetic that you people are arguing about this. It's wrong to shark Pokemon it's wrong to cheat in any way. Who cares if someone cheats? Let them, they found a loophole over hours of training, tedious breeding and other brainless meaningless stuff.

It's a game people, a typical, addictive simple role playing game. Nothing more. There's no need for argument over if it's ok to cheat, it's not like you're cheating over your taxes or cheating some other thing that will impact your life if caught.

If you want to have an easy time with the game, get the perfect Pokemon and perfect game in a short time, then go for it and shark away. If you want to spend hours on end playing the game with no cheating, then that's fine too. You people have time and the patience to do it. Some don't have the time and some plain old don't want to.

- - - - -
Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality


From: Somewhere in the Chronicles of time and space where cows are cheesesticks | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Artie Cuno
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posted 08-27-2001 12:18 AM      Profile for Artie Cuno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If you must cheat to play the game and have fun, then don't. And as for the sweeper Karp, it had 999 stats in everything but level. And it had Crunch, Aeroblast (with Wing Attack's PP), Sacred Fire (with Flamethrower's PP, don't ask me why), and Recover. Talk about your Megakarp! I hate that cheater's stinking guts. Although I, personally have nothing against legal sharkers, as I stated in an earlier post, illegal sharkers must kiss my ass ten thousand times unless I am informed and thus may also shark. Which is why I carry my GB, games and shark together, although I never had a chance to use the shark (the above asshole who used the sweeper karp didn't inform me of his sharkery *pissed off*)

- - - - -
Piss off not the kittens, lest they claw your balls off.

From: A box in a swamp. With your sister. | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
The Great Dreamer
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posted 08-27-2001 12:55 PM      Profile for The Great Dreamer   Email The Great Dreamer   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Zerot,
"When he sees something he can't disprove, he just doesn't acknowledge it."\
No, dumbass, I don't reply to stuff that I already covered.
Jolt has not either read or understand my comments to others that have already covered what he wants to say and I'm not going to re-hatch the same counter over and over again just because some people don't read.
Like that guy, Digital Kaizeren, he TOTALLY missed the part when I said that training the pokémon is directly attached to the in game enviroment in a link battle, that the meta game is supposed to be slow, that Trainning and Trading majorly influence your battle Techniques and that Trading and Training are the 2 balancing variables of the game that give it enough equilibrium to allow any combination of pokémon nd moves to be used, no need of clauses and bans, no "special" rules, just right...but he just ignored or didn't understand what I was saying so I will not respond to him because what I have to say to him I have already said...entiende?

- - - - -
"Pokemon, no matter what anyone says, is not just about link battles. PBS is not Pokemon." -Mr. K

From: Las Vegas were everyone uses Mimic & Metronome! | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Digital Kaizeren
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posted 08-27-2001 03:08 PM      Profile for Digital Kaizeren   Author's Homepage   Email Digital Kaizeren   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
All I stated in my post was some people blantly don't want to go through the game and would rather shark up every event, perfect Pokemon and everything else.

I admit that's not much of a game there, you should actually play the game once without an enhancer of some sort.

But what I'm saying is, there are people out there who spend hours, days, months on end just training these stupid monsters for what? So you can win against someone else? I prefer the flip of a gameshark to get perfect Pokemon rather then wasting time.

Did I miss your point again?

- - - - -
Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality


From: Somewhere in the Chronicles of time and space where cows are cheesesticks | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Great Dreamer
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posted 08-27-2001 03:41 PM      Profile for The Great Dreamer   Email The Great Dreamer   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Digital Kaizeren,
"Did I miss your point again?"
Unfortunately, you did...
The hard work you put behind your pokémon pays off in the link battles.
If a player sharks their team they are crippling the Trade and Train balancing variables and when this happens, the game becomes ClauseBanHell.
By playing the game by the rules, no special clauses and restrictions are needed because everything is balanced out.

- - - - -
"Pokemon, no matter what anyone says, is not just about link battles. PBS is not Pokemon." -Mr. K

From: Las Vegas were everyone uses Mimic & Metronome! | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jolt135
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posted 08-27-2001 05:40 PM      Profile for Jolt135   Author's Homepage   Email Jolt135   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, restricting sharkers isn't going to stop anything.. People can always use GSBot or PBSim to develop strategies. What can Nintendo do to stop Sharkers? (Not sharking as in the Megakarp, but sharking as in Stat Exp., Level, DVs that don't look sharked...)
From: Woodbridge, VA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Great Dreamer
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posted 08-27-2001 06:30 PM      Profile for The Great Dreamer   Email The Great Dreamer   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Jolt,
Nintendoctrine is not going to do anything because they couldn't give a rat's ass about the health, balance and quality of the game as long as it is making them a buck, typical greed-fuelled corporate pigs...
The only way tht I know of to make sure everyone follows the rules is through the system I made for my league.
The bots and simulators are GREAT for proxy play, so you know what you want before shedding your sweat, but when people start thinking that the sims and bots is the true way of Pokémon and then they attempt to make the actual Pokémon game into one big glorified PBS, then that's where the problems starts...

- - - - -
"Pokemon, no matter what anyone says, is not just about link battles. PBS is not Pokemon." -Mr. K

From: Las Vegas were everyone uses Mimic & Metronome! | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Digital Kaizeren
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posted 08-27-2001 08:02 PM      Profile for Digital Kaizeren   Author's Homepage   Email Digital Kaizeren   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"The hard work you put behind your pokémon pays off in the link battles."

Yeah that's true, but the effortless work you put into enterring a few digits into a game enhancer does it's due just as well.

I think I undertsnad that you think people should get the expirience of the game instead of cheating their way through and not actually seeing what the game truly is and how it should be played. Oh well.

- - - - -
Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality


From: Somewhere in the Chronicles of time and space where cows are cheesesticks | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Random Loser
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posted 08-27-2001 11:35 PM      Profile for Random Loser   Email Random Loser   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Alright, time to put my worthless opinion out there, one that's been said repeatedly but I'm going to go over yet again. The little pocket dictionary sitting next to my computer defines a game (which, until you get into it to the point TGD apparently has, Pokemon is) simply as a "fun activity". That covers it fairly well I suppose. I find the game to be a lot more fun when I shark, rather than waste time that could be spent battling, or playing some other game that I also enjoy, or even doing some other real life activity. That pretty much covers my entire argument in this.. from my perspective, the game is much more fun when I use a shark to enhance it. I really don't care how Tajiri meant the game to be played (nor am I quite sure on how exactly TGD knows how he meant it to be), I'll play it the way that I find to be the most fun, which if you'll go back up to the definition, you'll realize that that's the point. That's where I stand in the argument. That said, I can also see the point of the other side. I've got no clue what TGD's point is, as he seems to have taken this game a little too far, so I'll just consider him a third party and not deal with his comments directly. I can, however see the point of those that feel it isn't fair to those you battle. In a regular sport, even if I find it more fun to cheat to win, it isn't right. This would apply to Pokemon as well, in a link battle. I, however, choose to ignore this and continue sharking, since I never fight anyone in link battles anyway, and my real pokes only get action vs. stadium trainers. Of course, everything I just said has been stated repeatedly throughout this post (and the 20 or so others just like it), so I'll just leave off here.
From: Uni of Virginny | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Great Dreamer
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posted 08-28-2001 02:55 AM      Profile for The Great Dreamer   Email The Great Dreamer   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Looser,
"The little pocket dictionary sitting next to my computer defines a game (which, until you get into it to the point TGD apparently has, Pokemon is) simply as a "fun activity". That covers it fairly well I suppose."
Well, say hi to your new source of toilet paper that is that pocket dictionary because Webster has something else to say...
Game : a physical or mental competition conducted according to RULES with the participants in direct opposition to each other.
Read it again, RULES, read it again, RULES, one more time in case you don't quite get it, RULES. Does that say rules? I believe it does, hmmm, funny how that works out...

The point of a game is to have fun WITHIN the set RULES, if a player has fun but does not abide the rules, then that player is not playing said game.
Let say a group of people are playing in a basketball court, with a basket ball, shit, they even have basketball t-shirts but they are not dribbling the ball, they are running with it...they are playing with a basketball, on a basketball court that has basketball baskets and they are wearing basketball t-shirts but like any basketball player will tell you they are sure as Hell ain't playig basketball!
You might be using a Pokemon cartridge, what's on the screen looks like Pokemon, you have a game link to have Pokemon battles but you sure as damn Hell not playing Pokemon...
You are playing in your own reality, where Pokemon is something other than the way it is, it is the way you wanted to be...

"I find the game to be a lot more fun when I shark, rather than waste time that could be spent battling, or playing some other game that I also enjoy, or even doing some other real life activity."
Pokemon is more like martial arts than it is like chess. There is a world of strategy in a fight, but you need power, in order to aquire that power you need to train. Trainning is actionless and manytimes boring, but the hardwork makes victory tastes so much sweeter, same with Pokemon. You want power for your Techniques? You got to train hard.
And just like in martial arts, the way you train is a critical factor in battle as it is the way you fight...just like in Pokemon.
If you've never been in a sport where trainning is a critical factor to win as much as the strategy to use the power aquired in that trainning, you probably cannot fathom what I'm saying...


"That pretty much covers my entire argument in this.. from my perspective, the game is much more fun when I use a shark to enhance it. I really don't care how Tajiri meant the game to be played (nor am I quite sure on how exactly TGD knows how he meant it to be), I'll play it the way that I find to be the most fun, which if you'll go back up to the definition, you'll realize that that's the point."
Tajiri said in his recent interview(that I know of) to Magic Box that he wants players to trade, and he cannot stress that enough.
Also, how the game balance is crippled at the introduction of hackry is also clear evidence.
Right from the creator and straight from the horses mouth, if you hack, you are cheating, period. There's no ands, ifs or buts about it. If you DON'T like it, go play something ELSE, like the card game...no trainning, just strategy, but the Pokemon game series are more than mere strategy, if you can't handle it you must be playing the wrong Pokemon game...

"That's where I stand in the argument. That said, I can also see the point of the other side. I've got no clue what TGD's point is, as he seems to have taken this game a little too far, so I'll just consider him a third party and not deal with his comments directly."
Well, I guess I should apologize for my coments not being simplistic enough for your fragile mind...

Also, about your signature, if you read the ENTIRE post and the response to IceHawk you would see what that was about...unless, ofcourse, you're trying to make me look like a racist bigot...(which i don't doubt)

- - - - -
"Pokemon, no matter what anyone says, is not just about link battles. PBS is not Pokemon." -Mr. K


From: Las Vegas were everyone uses Mimic & Metronome! | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Random Loser
Farting Nudist
Member # 1538

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posted 08-28-2001 03:09 AM      Profile for Random Loser   Email Random Loser   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well damn TGD, that's easily the best response I've ever seen you post. Looking back you pretty much nailed down every one of my points. Nice work (even if it was simply towards proving that I'm an idiot ). As for my sig, I just found it humorous, so it went in...
The only thing I've got to say about the complete destruction of my above post is that I still find it more fun to shark than to sit around doing the same thing over and over again... I suppose I'm not playing pokemon, oh well.

From: Uni of Virginny | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Zerot
I pay schoolgirls to verbally abuse me.
Member # 1295

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posted 08-28-2001 06:07 AM      Profile for Zerot   Author's Homepage   Email Zerot   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Dreamer:
Zerot,
"When he sees something he can't disprove, he just doesn't acknowledge it."\
No, dumbass, I don't reply to stuff that I already covered.
Jolt has not either read or understand my comments to others that have already covered what he wants to say and I'm not going to re-hatch the same counter over and over again just because some people don't read.
Like that guy, Digital Kaizeren, he TOTALLY missed the part when I said that training the pokémon is directly attached to the in game enviroment in a link battle, that the meta game is supposed to be slow, that Trainning and Trading majorly influence your battle Techniques and that Trading and Training are the 2 balancing variables of the game that give it enough equilibrium to allow any combination of pokémon nd moves to be used, no need of clauses and bans, no "special" rules, just right...but he just ignored or didn't understand what I was saying so I will not respond to him because what I have to say to him I have already said...entiende?

Well, yes. But possibly he didn't understand something. That is where YOU could explain it.


From: Lizton, Indiana | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
Racist
Member # 2

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posted 08-28-2001 08:46 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think I might actually be agreeing with TGD here, and disagreeing with cfalcon, which is pretty odd in itself.

Anyway, in short, if you want to Shark your own game, for your own purposes, I don't see anything wrong with that.

However, as soon as you enter into a link battle, and you've Sharked, you are now officially a cheater, no matter what elaborate justifications you've made for yourself.

Pokemon, no matter what anyone says, is not just about link battles. PBS is not Pokemon. There are 2 major components to Pokemon, the catching/training phase and the link battling phase. I understand that a lot of people couldn't care less about the first part, but it doesn't mean they are not cheating when they use the Shark, even if they abide by other in-game rules.

It's just friggin' cheating. That's all there is to it. It doesn't matter if you don't want to waste the time, or you don't agree with the rules, etc., it's just friggin' cheating, and it's unfair, and it sucks, and people who don't cheat are screwed by it.

Of course, people are going to do it all the time, and it's fairly reasonable to assume that anyone you meet in a link battle has used a Shark. It sucks, but that's how people are.

What drives me crazy, tho, is people who Shark and then try and justify it...like they aren't cheating. You can't have it both ways.


From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Subtallica
Farting Nudist
Member # 1101

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posted 08-28-2001 08:52 AM      Profile for Subtallica     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There is no point of argueing, because people like TGD will never ever admit to seeing a different view, its his way or your wrong, its not even worth it anymore

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The ingorance in your words merely reflects your own ignorance - MK

From: Long Island, NY | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Digital Kaizeren
Orangutan Spouse
Member # 2081

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posted 08-28-2001 10:58 AM      Profile for Digital Kaizeren   Author's Homepage   Email Digital Kaizeren   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
::shakes head:: You people take the game too seriously. It's a game and only a game. It should never be taken seriously.

And you people who refuse to battle with a person who sharked, what's wrong with it? If you win against them it makes you feel all the better that you defeated something that was meant to be difficult or impossible to beat. And if you lose, well, it shows that cheating triumphs over training or you had bad luck...or if the person you fought had made his pokemon have stats of 999, which most likely you'll lose. ::shrugs:: I'll shut up now.

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Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality


From: Somewhere in the Chronicles of time and space where cows are cheesesticks | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Great Dreamer
Farting Nudist
Member # 117

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posted 08-28-2001 07:20 PM      Profile for The Great Dreamer   Email The Great Dreamer   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Looser,
Thanks...
My goal was not to tell or prove you're an idiot, I don't think you're an idiot...a cheater, yes, but not an idiot, sorry if it seemed that way...

Zerot,
"Well, yes. But possibly he didn't understand something. That is where YOU could explain it."
You know what? You're right, it is I that are the dumbass, I retract my insult...*no sarcasm here*

Mr. K,
"I think I might actually be agreeing with TGD here, and disagreeing with cfalcon, which is pretty odd in itself."
Well, get big daddy Satan a fur coat, some long johns and fuken hot coco 'cause it must be freezing in Hell right about now...*impressed*
Oh, lookie... *throws pokéball at quote*

Subtallica,
Look, I can see why you don't considere it cheating, but you have to accept the game how the creator, Satoshi Tajiri, made it to be. It is not MY point of view, it is GAME FREAK's point of view, it is their way.

Jolt,
"And now that K's joined in, I expect that TGD's comments will start to dissipate..."
..........why would they?

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"Pokemon, no matter what anyone says, is not just about link battles. PBS is not Pokemon." -Mr. K


From: Las Vegas were everyone uses Mimic & Metronome! | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Footitch
Farting Nudist
Member # 663

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posted 08-28-2001 10:37 PM      Profile for Footitch   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
For those of you who are against sharking of any type (not just DV mods, but TMs, moves, etc.)

If someone sharks something that can be done through training, and you can't tell the difference, what's wrong with it?


From: ===D ()-: | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Twinkle
I'm feeling fat and sassy~!
Member # 1690

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posted 08-28-2001 11:20 PM      Profile for Twinkle        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Footitch:
If someone sharks something that can be done through training, and you can't tell the difference, what's wrong with it?

THE EFFORT INVOLVED.

It's SUPPOSED to be difficult to train Pokémon. The point is that people who "waste" their time actually training DESERVE to have the Pokémon that they trained. Yes, it's tedious, time-consuming, and occasionally frustrating, but that's because IT WAS DESIGNED THAT WAY. Hard work, and the payoff from it, is the whole purpose of the game.
Playing through the game a dozen times to get loads of TMs for your teams is a good thing: There is hard work involved to earn those TMs. A less dedicated person won't replay the game for TMs, thereby not earning them (and of course, not getting them).

THIS is why I detest Gameshark. People use it to get things that they don't deserve, because they didn't put forth the effort to earn them. Yes, people who have no life and play their Gameboy six hours a day will have an advantage over those who play less - THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO! They are putting forth extra effort, and earning those better teams.

People who Shark are destroying the value of others' efforts. Imagine how devastated I was after I spent 3 months training my team, replaying the game for that TM I needed, and perfecting their movesets--And then one of my friends saw my team, said "Hey, cool team! I want it," and sharked up an exact duplicate of it in 10 minutes.

I have no respect for people who take the easy way out, in Pokémon or anything else.

[edit:typo]

[ 08-28-2001: Message edited by: Twinkle ]

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Hich loch faauto noxlattoyen.


From: Brinstar | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Meowth346
Farting Nudist
Member # 166

posted 08-28-2001 11:48 PM      Profile for Meowth346   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Let's see:

Honest Player:
My brother spent a couple years at a job before getting promoted to the position that he wanted.

Gameshark player:
A week later, my brother got booted out of that position because the boss's nephew started working there that day, and got moved into the position.

True story. I train my Pokémon to be "booted" by others who trained their Pokémon, not to be "booted" by those who instantly got their data because they have a Gameshark.

--Meowth346

[ 08-28-2001: Message edited by: Meowth346 ]


Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
j-br
Farting Nudist
Member # 1982

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posted 08-29-2001 05:29 AM      Profile for j-br     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would like to know what your definition of ‘Honest’ Trainer is. Obviously someone who doesn’t use a gameshark but what else? Does an honest trainer never exploit glitches even ones as mundane as the ditto/mimic DV copy trick? Do the honest trainers research all their own information on breeding, movesets, DVs, etc. Do they invent their own strategies for battle and never so much as look at other peoples? Ok so the gameshark is cheating but what else do you not have to do in order to be an Honest Trainer?

I don’t like how some people are implying that owning a gameshark makes you win all the time. It doesn’t – the gameshark doesn’t make you a better player. So long as the team was sharked legally (ie no level 5 magikarps with 999 in every stat) then it should be no more difficult or easy to beat than the same team trained legitimately. I think the main thing that people feel is that all of their hard work training a team means nothing when battling a sharked team, especially if that team was not of their own creation, not that the sharked team can’t ever be beaten. This is completely understandable and I can see why people wouldn’t want to battle against a sharked team. I wouldn’t be bothered really, as defeating a sharker shows that they haven’t gained anything by defeating the entire purpose of the game. What I hate the most is when people lie about whether their team is sharked or not. Saying your sharked team is legit is just plain wrong.

I wouldn’t buy a gameshark as my desire to play the game outside of battling (ie on the train to and from work) would drop to zero. If other people want to use the gameshark fine. Let them play the moveset picking game, while we play pokemon

[ 08-29-2001: Message edited by: j-br ]


From: UK | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jolt135
Farting Nudist
Member # 1974

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posted 08-29-2001 05:07 PM      Profile for Jolt135   Author's Homepage   Email Jolt135   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Undetectable sharking shouldn't be nitpicked at because:

1. It requires good knowledge of the subject in order to use.

2. It provides an advantage, but not a hugely overpowering one.

Any dissenting comments?


From: Woodbridge, VA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
j-br
Farting Nudist
Member # 1982

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posted 08-30-2001 10:05 AM      Profile for j-br     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jolt135:
Undetectable sharking shouldn't be nitpicked at because:

1. It requires good knowledge of the subject in order to use.

2. It provides an advantage, but not a hugely overpowering one.

Any dissenting comments?


3. Defeats the entire purpose of pokemon.

4. Really annoys people who train their pokemon, or those who don’t like the gameshark.

But apart from that you are correct – it does require a degree of knowledge to use properly and doesn’t give a tremendous advantage except in limited environments (unlike 2 level 255 Ho-ohs that some kid had at the celebi give away in London yesterday. At least he didn’t lie about where they came from, instead claiming that you could get away with it at tournaments cos nintendo don’t check to see your team is illegal…. hmmm)


From: UK | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Subtallica
Farting Nudist
Member # 1101

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posted 08-30-2001 10:11 AM      Profile for Subtallica     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I agree with saying that sharking is having an advatage, but you cant say that sharking in a way that no one can tell is having an advantage, because your not really having an advantage, if u give it stats that are not that high, is not giving anyone an advantage..it might vere off from the game, and i know that all the "TRUE" gamers will still crucify me for saying that because they can not be met half way...but sharking reasonably, is sharking ethically

[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Subtallica ]

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The ingorance in your words merely reflects your own ignorance - MK


From: Long Island, NY | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
Member # 290

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posted 08-30-2001 03:59 PM      Profile for Psybro   Email Psybro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
NOTE: These points may already have been raised earlier in the thread, but I'm too damn lazy to read it.

I don't know why I'm contriubuting to this debate, but I just want to raise a point that I've never seen discussed in much detail before (and one I'm sure TGD will disagree with):

IMO, the makers of the Game Boy Pokémon games never intended for Level 100 Pokémon to be the standard in tournaments. They probably anticipated most kids would get bored of training around Level 70, and just hold battles with a limit of Pokémon between, say, 65 and 75. If I can quote from Mr. K's First Tourney, "only psychos and cheaters have L100 Pokemon". This was written back when Pokémon tournaments were in a more primitive stage, but I doubt the original Game Freak programmer's intended it ever to get much past that stage. Pokémon's success was, I believe, much larger than originally anticipated.

My point is, the game itself is not sufficiently made to accomodate for raising Pokémon to Level 100. I refuse to believe anyone would make a game of any kind require as much of your time and effort as training a team to Level 100 does. Using a shark makes up for this.

It might just be that this is a somewhat arrogant view of my own, but I just felt like adding it, and I was bored, and the Devil made me do it.
Ahem.

[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Psybro ]

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[img]http://greatomega.homestead.com/files/clam.jpg[/img]


From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
The Great Dreamer
Farting Nudist
Member # 117

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posted 08-30-2001 04:20 PM      Profile for The Great Dreamer   Email The Great Dreamer   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Psybro,
A lower level pokémon can beat a higher level one, it all depends on what is the level gap and what are the type match ups.
The level 100 limit was done to make sure people with too much time in their hands don't get super powerful lvl1000 and such.

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"Pokemon, no matter what anyone says, is not just about link battles. PBS is not Pokemon." -Mr. K

From: Las Vegas were everyone uses Mimic & Metronome! | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Manuel Calavera
Sock Lover
Member # 1202

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posted 08-30-2001 04:42 PM      Profile for Manuel Calavera     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Dreamer:
The level 100 limit was done to make sure people with too much time in their hands don't get super powerful lvl1000 and such.

Too much time or a Gameshark.

- - - - -
Gates is the Saddam Hussein of the consumer technology world. ~ Mr.K


From: Newcastle, Home of Geordies, Brown Ale and The Wildhearts | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Gary Oak
Farting Nudist
Member # 1028

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posted 08-30-2001 04:45 PM      Profile for Gary Oak     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm pretty sure the level 100 limit was done because that's pretty much the standard for RPGs in general. Not because they were planning ahead.

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"You think it is done, you think all is well. Well kiss my green ass I shall see you in hell."

AIM: GRISH81

From: Roselle, Illinois | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
theclaw
Farting Nudist
Member # 1680

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posted 08-31-2001 05:33 AM      Profile for theclaw   Author's Homepage   Email theclaw   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A totally stupid little kid could use the gameshark all he wanted to and STILL not beat a real trainer. I find gameshark to be just as slow and tedious as real training. The gameshark CANNOT suggest a good moveset or team! So you still have to know how to play the game.

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Come to my web site at http://geocities.com/theclaw135 . My message board is at http://pub081.ezboard.com/btheclaw135selectriccastle.

From: Pokemon World | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
White Cat
Nobody knows why I'm an admin.
Member # 42

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posted 08-31-2001 07:40 AM      Profile for White Cat   Author's Homepage   Email White Cat      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm pretty sure the level 100 limit was done because that's pretty much the standard for RPGs in general. Not because they were planning ahead.

And because it's a nice, round number.

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"Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula?"
-- Barack Obama, campaigning in Iowa


From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
Racist
Member # 2

Member Rated:
posted 08-31-2001 11:18 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Footitch: If someone sharks something that can be done through training, and you can't tell the difference, what's wrong with it?

Is all cheating just fine and dandy, if you're able to get away with it? I just don't understand these fucked up justifications you kids have.

Jolt135: 1. It requires good knowledge of the subject in order to use.

So, it's OK for me to rob your house, if I have to put a lot of effort into it?

(Plus, it does not require "good knowledge" to cheat. Just go online and download codes.)

2. It provides an advantage, but not a hugely overpowering one.

OK, so if we play tennis, you wanna spot me 15 points every game? Hell, it's not that big of a deal, right?

Subtallica: I agree with saying that sharking is having an advatage, but you cant say that sharking in a way that no one can tell is having an advantage, because your not really having an advantage, if u give it stats that are not that high...

You kids are all so full of krap! Even if you Shark a team with low scores, you still saved yourself a ton of time by not having to catch and train your Pokemon.

theclaw: So you still have to know how to play the game.

So, if two people know how to play a game, it's completely OK to give one an unfair advantage for no reason?

What is wrong with you kids?

Anyway, look at this way...I'll try another sports analogy:

The Organics play the Sharkers in baseball...the Sharkers decide that, since they consider the first 8 innings to be boring and a waste of time, they decide to take the best scores they've ever gotten in each inning in all their previous games and submit those as their scores for each inning. In the meantime, they get a few rounds of drinks or something. Then they play the ninth inning, with a huge lead built up already...

Again, you can't change the rules of a game, just because you don't like them and still claim to be playing fair!

Ahem.

By the way, Psybro makes an interesting point that I agree with. I don't think Nintendo ever did plan on L100 Pokemon being the standard. They did want to reward fanatical trainers, however, but as soon as they capped it, Levels lost all their meaning with Sharkers in the picture.

[ 08-31-2001: Message edited by: Mr. K ]


From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19

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posted 08-31-2001 01:44 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
gruco- *wonders if cfalcon has anything to say*

Holy shit this thing exploded. I didn't want to post yesterday, it was so big. Here we go:

Money is hard to earn. It takes a long time working at a job. In order to reach a satisfactory money supply, you have to give up several hours of your life. Why bother to take that long? There is a faster way. Just counterfit the money, then you'll be on equal footing with all the people who worked to earn it. People's social standing should be based on who makes the best use of their money, rather the based on who has no life and can afford to waste all of their time earning it. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with counterfitting.

Fuck, wouldn't you counterfeit if you could? I mean, it isn't as if you swore an oath not to, or anything... The point of law enforcement is to make the calculated risk of crime a bad idea, and they have largely succeeded for counterfeiting. Counterfeiting is a crime against society at large (which means the government).

The supply/demand argument is bogus for pokémon, because despite all the whining everyone does, L100 monsters are all over the place. It takes a few hours to train one (trade it, run it through stadium sped up, etc.), so I would argue that their value is so depressed that is does no matter.

Oriental men don't like oriental chicks, white guys don't like black chicks, latin guys don't like white chicks, etc.

This might actually be true in the average strip club, though unless you've talked with an assortment of strippers it could just be a case of you generalizing based on nothing. You really should add a disclaimer when post nonsense like this, so it doesn't lead to the wrong conclusion (in this case, the "wrong conclusion" is the one you get by directly reading your statement).

You where way too hasty in judging me for a racist, seems you have issues with people having a problem with you and your lady...

Fine, but make that clear.

...anyway, don't snap at me...

No, really, it wasn't inappropriate.

Here here! You said it succinctly. You anti-sharkers are people who can't distant the metagame from in-game and thus need to take a look at yourselves.

Poorly typed, but the point is valid: the points we used to see about sharking usually involved the inequity of training time and Divine Sin Of RAM Modification. Now we get a lot of this.

Is this a problem with you guys? Do you have people who see your team and work up a team that would suck in all cases except to counter yours? What the fuck is wrong with them?

Seriously, I have two main points to answer this. First: You should have more than six monsters ready to go. You may have to guess the local metagame, but the point is that no one should walk up to you and know *exactly* what you have. That ain't right, and it is partially your fault. If you only have six monsters, the odds are I have a few nonsharked monsters sitting around that could counter your team pretty well (not always, but the point is sound). So if I can do that without the shark, and so can you, what's the big problem here?

The flaw is how easy the shark makes this. But whether it takes 30 minutes or 3 days, both are pretty short amounts of time, and a sufficiently prescient trainer will not need this out anyway.

For my second point, I'll go to another turn based strategy game: Magic. The point is valid because there are very narrow cards in Magic (Bury all artifacts, Bury all Green creatures, Bury all Djinns and Efreets, Destroy all permanents from the Homeland expansion, Destroy all Islands, Remove target player's graveyard from the game...) that are only good if you basically know what your opponent is doing (this is done by "sideboarding" in your hate cards after the first game of a match, or extensive metagaming). One guy in town who plays has some fierce artifact decks. If you walk in with a lot of artifact hate, you'll win. If you don't it'll be a fair match. The thing is, he has a lot of decks, so if you just walk up and ask him to play you don't know what he'll pull out. If you beat him with a lot of cards that screw with artifacts (many decks have no artifacts, so putting those cards into your deck gives you wasted cards there), he'll just shake his head, because you aren't really playing the same game he is. It isn't a fault that his deck uses artifacts: you can no more build a deck which beats all others (except itself, who its 50/50 with) in Magic than you can a team in Pokemon.


Sharking experience doesn't just save a little bit of time. It saves a sickeningly large amount of time. This time can be reallocated towards other things such as catching multiple pokes for good DVs, for tweaking movesets, and for analyzing team chemistry. Sometimes, honest trainers have to cut time or settle for less than ideal in these aspects, in order to find the time for the long leveling up process. Some don't, but those people who do go the extra mile truly deserve the advantage that brings them in the match. Do sharkers deserve that extra advantage when they have it? Did they earn it?

Ok everyone, lets point out the glaring error here: he implies that the time tradeoff is a good thing. Should I suck at Pokémon because my classes are sometimes hard as shit? Should someone is AP classes suffer because they actually have to do lots of homework?

The answer is "Yes, but no more than necessary". Everyone has lots of things in their life. Someone who has more spare time has more time for the strategy building time spoken of. Fine. That can't be avoided. What can be avoided is fighting the same monsters time and time again to level. Even if I enjoy it, I can understand that not everyone does.

Do I "deserve" a shark? What an arrogant question! Of course I deserve a shark!

And so does everyone!

Plus, it's my RAM I'm messing with. It's entirely undetectable (meaning that you could just as easily accuse my monsters who've never touched the shark as being sharked), and really does generate the same mathematical play experience.


It all comes down to what you percieve the game to be. If you think it should all be about coming up with honest strategies and then sharking them into existence, that's fine by me. But trying to impose them on others is just wrong.

A valid point, sort of. Why does everyone actually assume that the one and two player experiences are the same? It might seem that they should be, but do you really think that each battle you fight is a 56 hour duel, taking into account exactly how many times each of you has offed the 1337 Four? Why should that matter? We hook together, we fight. End. That's the two player game. Nintendo even knows it, and offers that play value in Stadium. The simple fact is that, barring gene sharking, all the rest does is save time. While it may appear that the metagame is supposed to be "slower", I'm pretty confident that that's a false conclusion based largely on the fact that not enough people in whatever metagame you discuss have the proper answers already waiting on their carts.

I am glad that no one is saying that "absolute cheating" (illegal movesets, levels) is in any way fair anymore.

j-br: I do this because i like playing all elements of the game but I can see why some people don't like training as it is not as exciting as battling and takes a lot of time.

I also like the training aspect, but you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

TGD: You, Strategists, however are people that are too lazy or do not understand how and why the game works the way it does and since you're pampered by simulators and bots you cheat in order to make Pokémon like the simulator game experience, trying to make Pokémon a game that is not...

Wow, that sounds like a personal attack, dreamer...

I agree that a wholistic view of the game proscribes the use of the shark. However, you need to see that when you sit down to play a link battle the bulk of the one player game has no meaning. It just isn't about raising your pokémon then (though it honestly is more fun when it's something you've raised yourself: I'll agree that it is more enjoyable to me if my monster is really mine, but it makes no difference to me if theirs is).


so if i need another EarthQuake TM, theres no way im guna start over a different game and go through it, just to get it, its not worth it at all...

WHAT! But it would be cheating to have two of the same TMs on a team! I mean, that implies you own a second game or something... That clearly isn't intended!!!

...I obviously have no tolerance from the people who do that strange TM clause. Nintendo intends you to have access to all sorts of things, as the trade function makes clear. They would just like to line their pocketbooks while doing so.

Oh, wait, here's one:

TGD: You don't have a TM? TRADE for it, because that's how the CREATOR of Pokémon WANTS you to do, Satoshi Tajiri.

No, they want you to buy the other color and play through and get it.

This kind of thinking isn't a different opinion from mine: this is flat out wrong. It was plain to me as I played through blue that I needed red to have the best team. Period. Who would trade away any of their lone TMs? Either someone that wanted something sucky in return, or someone that wanted something appropriate. Well, If I want all my options, I don't want to trade with the latter, and I don't know anyone dumb enough for the former.

Really, you have read a lot into the game experience that isn't there. I'm not saying that Satoshi didn't think that the trading was neat: I'm saying he didn't make that game, he made pokémon. If he either wasn't good enough at strategy to figure out how the game would actually be played, or just didn't care what the otaku did, fine. But regardless of intentions, you get bonus TMs from a shark, a glitch, or another version. *You* can trade for Quake. I'm not trading mine

TGD: The game is NOT about ISOLATED link battles, it is about the PERFORMANCE of TRADING and TRAINING on link battles.

This is an assumption. I've always thought the game was about raising your monsters to be the best. But that doesn't make me believe that my opponents need to have done that. Trading is dead due to the whole "Trade with yourself" thing.

Actually the post that both of these Dreamer posts come from is quite rude and full of insults aimed at Subtallica.


B and A fight, but B sharked so his Pokemon were invincible.
Neither won. If your monsters are literally invincible, you aren't playing pokémon, because there's no way to do that without a shark. If you mean that B's monsters were all beefy, then fine.

Do you think that B could take a team made up solely of my natural monsters with his sharked team? Why, because he has a couple more points of genes than me? He might have an advantage, but it's really minor. It would probably be a fair fight. Especially when compared with the other much more valid time saving points.


TGD: Trading and Training are the 2 balancing variables of the game that give it enough equilibrium to allow any combination of pokémon nd moves to be used, no need of clauses and bans, no "special" rules, just right

This is horseshit.

Why? Because what the shark allows here is plain ordinary monsters. Monsters that would exist without the shark. The only point that I'll concede not being shit is the one about the speed of the metagame, and I disagree with that one.

I know this is horseshit because my chromatic team would be six Mewtwos. Some would be backup Mewtwos, but the point is that if some one tried something cute with one of the few things that can take Mewtwo, I'd be ready with a counter. While it would be possible to lose to a team that isn't all Mewtwos, it would be really, really unlikely.

I have agreed with Dreamer in the past that base chromatic has ways to deal with Mewtwo that Stadium killed and such, but I assure you that the monster clause improves this game greatly.

Some of the clauses are silly. Trading and Training don't change anything, they just change the tempo. I can do everything without a shark (or one of the many amusing glitches) that I can do with one, so banning the shark wouldn't change much except to put me and some other obsessives on top for that reason alone. I'd like to win the rare battle that I can find these days based on strategy. That's why I think this arguement is invalid.

It's OK to not like sharking and still feel that the game wasn't written perfectly.

TGD: Right from the creator and straight from the horses mouth, if you hack, you are cheating, period. There's no ands, ifs or buts about it.

Do you think he's talking about our level of play? He wants to stress trading? Well, I can't do that, unless it's with myself. Is that cheating too? Perhaps the way he thinks of the game would be impossible for me to play unless I was ten years old and Japanese. I don't really care what game he thinks he created (it's nice academically, of course), I really care about the game he actually made.

Mr. K: Pokemon, no matter what anyone says, is not just about link battles. PBS is not Pokemon. There are 2 major components to Pokemon, the catching/training phase and the link battling phase. I understand that a lot of people couldn't care less about the first part, but it doesn't mean they are not cheating when they use the Shark, even if they abide by other in-game rules.

Sure, I agree that there are two major components. Except for the lack of a built in byte by byte monster editor, what makes you think these two components are so closely tied together?

Here's how I see it, and it doesn't involve an elaborate excuse: when I walk up to the table to play, I don't have the right to know all about my opponent, and as long as his monsters are legal, I don't care.

people who don't cheat are screwed by it

That isn't totally true. People who don't cheat might feel robbed, sure, but they aren't screwed by it. We are talking about doing only things that everyone can get done (with gene sharking the only possible exception).

What drives me crazy, tho, is people who Shark and then try and justify it...like they aren't cheating. You can't have it both ways.

I'm telling you, it isn't cheating.
cheat- to violate rules (as of a game) dishonestly

The only rules you violate are the ones about training your monsters naturally. The rules your opponent doesn't need to know (and can't verify). The rules of the link battle are spelled out, and not modified by the shark that isn't even physically present at the time. Dishonest? What's dishonest about different means to an end, means that don't hurt anyone and are indistinguishable from the end point?

What gives you the right to expect the person you are battling to have spent all that time training? Pokémon's the same game, at least to you. They would have the same team or a weaker one, and who wants their opponents to have a weaker team?


Twinkle: Imagine how devastated I was after I spent 3 months training my team, replaying the game for that TM I needed, and perfecting their movesets--And then one of my friends saw my team, said "Hey, cool team! I want it," and sharked up an exact duplicate of it in 10 minutes.

You shouldn't have been devastated at all. You should have been happy your friend has a new team, and that he's using *your* movesets. That's a compliment.

It's SUPPOSED to be difficult to train Pokémon. The point is that people who "waste" their time actually training DESERVE to have the Pokémon that they trained.

I don't feel I'm more deserving of my L100 monsters than someone who sharked them. They missed out on a lot of the game, and that sucks for them, but it's no skin off my teeth.

You have way to much real world analogy in your post, Twinkle. It isn't right to demand that our opponents spend all that time just because we see fit to. Do you really feel that you deserve to win because you spent all that time levelling?
I don't feel that way. Your levelled team should be very close to a sharked team (the genes are the biggest problem I face, and they've ended up addressed parenthetically a lot recently).

Meowth346: I train my Pokémon to be "booted" by others who trained their Pokémon, not to be "booted" by those who instantly got their data because they have a Gameshark.

Why don't you want your opponents to be as strong as possible? It's more fun to win that way, and it's more fun to lose that way.


Jolt135:
Undetectable sharking shouldn't be nitpicked at because:
1. It requires good knowledge of the subject in order to use.
2. It provides an advantage, but not a hugely overpowering one.
Any dissenting comments?

Err... I think half of these fuckload of posts are dissenting comments on legal sharking

Psybro: IMO, the makers of the Game Boy Pokémon games never intended for Level 100 Pokémon to be the standard in tournaments. They probably anticipated most kids would get bored of training around Level 70, and just hold battles with a limit of Pokémon between, say, 65 and 75. If I can quote from Mr. K's First Tourney, "only psychos and cheaters have L100 Pokemon". This was written back when Pokémon tournaments were in a more primitive stage, but I doubt the original Game Freak programmer's intended it ever to get much past that stage. Pokémon's success was, I believe, much larger than originally anticipated.

This is a very important post (though a little off topic). I agree here completely, and Nintendo has given us plenty of reasons to agree (the pokécup being much of it). I maintain that the pokémon design team didn't really know *what* they designed. When they put in a lot of moves, I think they hoped that that number of moves was basically infinite in their player's heads.


TGD: Psybro,
A lower level pokémon can beat a higher level one, it all depends on what is the level gap and what are the type match ups.
The level 100 limit was done to make sure people with too much time in their hands don't get super powerful lvl1000 and such.

No, I'm pretty sure that the L100 limit was chosen because it was a nice number. You have to train obsessively (as Nintendo recognized and did things like dodrio mode) to get there, because the monsters in the game don't hit that level or anywhere close. Plus the experience you get goes up linearly with level and the experience you need pulls a polynomial. Levels can't be increased above 255, because that's the maximum you can do in 8 bits, which is how the data is stored. Heck, there had to be some max, right? I'm glad it was as low as 100: if it were an uncapped 16 bits it really would be a sharker's game.


Ok, enough with responses that are put together haphazardly because this should be multiple posts.
-------------------------------------------------------


A lot of you have this idea that just because we sit around and train our monsters like loons we deserve to win, even over more intelligent opponents have less spare time.

Mr. K, there was a time I brought up Magic: The Gathering. You didn't like it for the same reason you didn't want to pick up the Pokémon card game: you basically said "I don't like games where spending money makes you a better player". This "natural" view of pokémon is like this. People say "Time is money" (the order of those two saying shitloads about our society), but what they mean is "Money is something you get when you apply your time to earning money." Time is far more precious than money, none will argue. Everyone needs to realize that anyone who preaches against the shark is really preaching in favor of tying pokémon to real life resources.

Even though we have always disagreed on sharking, think about this: spending time to practice is one thing. Spending time to aquire in game things (like in Pokémon) is another. Buying equipment for a hobby is one thing. Having to buy each game thing (like in a TCG) is another.

I really do feel this duality is plain.

Besides, you don't get better at chess by setting up the pieces, then taking the queen and knocking them all down and repeating the process. The incessant battles offer no experience to the trainer...

I know there are a lot of mixed feelings, and I do see the points, but here's why I feel the way I do:

Basically I don't feel it's fair to ask my opponents to have sat around and trained their monsters from scratch. That doesn't make them better opponents, and I don't have that right just because I did it. When I sit down to battle, I want a worthy opponent with a legal set of monsters. I don't *want* them to have cut corners because they have a job and a life. I want them to have the best team they can get, so that we can fucking play Pokémon. I don't want to play I Have More Time Than You, I don't want to play I'm A Bigger Dork, I Win, and I don't want to talk about the time their Machamp went uneventfully through the elite four for the twentythird time and hit level 91.

I want to play the game.

The shark helps us do this.

It isn't fair to ask my opponent to have sat through that. If he has, great! But I don't feel it's fair for me to expect that, and so I don't feel it's fair for him to expect that, or anyone else.

(To address a minor issue: I don't *expect* them to own a shark. I expect them to have done the best they can, which often includes one. The shark's added monetary cost is the same as a pokémon game, and in order to have access to all strategies they need more than one of those (they can just as easily trade for sharked monsters as they can for the one's not in their versions).)

Ultimately, if you shark in the one player game you are only cheating yourself. If you do anything less than your best to prepare for a duel, you are cheating yourself and your opponent out of a good match.


-cfalcon


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 08-31-2001 03:02 PM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, for the first time, I've seen a cfalcon post that is a total load of horseshit.

cfalcon: But whether it takes 30 minutes or 3 days, both are pretty short amounts of time, and a sufficiently prescient trainer will not need this out anyway.

30 minutes is completely different from 3 days, and 3 days does not guarantee a perfect, or even above average Pokemon.

Should I suck at Pokémon because my classes are sometimes hard as shit?

Not "suck", but the answer to the root of your question is absofuckinglutely.

Should someone is AP classes suffer because they actually have to do lots of homework?

Unquestionably, undeniably, positively, indisputably yes.

You cannot just make the game whatever you want it to be. You can't skip 8 innings just because you don't want to play them. Well, you can, but it's cheating.

Plus, it's my RAM I'm messing with.

For the single player game, yeah, but as soon as you play someone else, you are being extraordinarily rude by cheating.

It's entirely undetectable...

Moot point. This is krap, stop bringing it up.

...really does generate the same mathematical play experience.

No, it absolutely does not because, mathematically speaking, all your Pokemon are better than mine could ever rationally be expected to be.

Why does everyone actually assume that the one and two player experiences are the same?

Since when does anyone have to defend the simple fact that modifying RAM is cheating??

It might seem that they should be, but do you really think that each battle you fight is a 56 hour duel, taking into account exactly how many times each of you has offed the 1337 Four?

Absolutely.

Why should that matter?

Because that's the whole point of the fucking game!

We hook together, we fight. End.

No, we train our Pokemon, we hook together, we fight. You can't just throw out the parts you don't like and say it's not cheating.

The simple fact is that, barring gene sharking, all the rest does is save time.

So much time, in fact, that it's really much more than a matter of time. You can't just demand the next Lotto winnings, because, if you play long enough, eventually you're gonna win.

This business of saying it's just a "time" issue is total smoke. The point is, no one was ever meant to have 6 max-stat Pokemon, unless they are completely friggin' insane. And, if they are that nuts, they deserve it.

However, you need to see that when you sit down to play a link battle the bulk of the one player game has no meaning.

Only for you, because you choose to ignore that part of the game. However, you are playing something other than Pokemon. You are playing cfalcon's Special Brand of Pokemon That Isn't Quite Pokemon.

It just isn't about raising your pokémon then...

It absolutely is, because that's what all that training is for.

Who would trade away any of their lone TMs?

If it were one they didn't need, they could trade it for a Pokemon they can't get, or a max-stat Pokemon, or another TM. However, all of these things are meaningless to you, because you cheat.

Really, you have read a lot into the game experience that isn't there.

Hmmm...and what part of the game experience allows you to modify your RAM directly?

He might have an advantage, but it's really minor. It would probably be a fair fight.

That's so friggin' bogus. "He might give himself an unfair advantage, but it'd be fair." Bullshit!

Because what the shark allows here is plain ordinary monsters.

Moist, steamy bullshit, shooting out of the bull's anus as we speak.

It allows you "plain, ordinary" max stat monsters which are so rare that many of us have never seen them. There's nothing "ordinary" about them.

Except for the lack of a built in byte by byte monster editor, what makes you think these two components are so closely tied together?

Because, you have to buy a cheating device to skip the first step.

...as long as his monsters are legal, I don't care.

Of course, because you have already cheated.

I'm telling you, it isn't cheating.

And I'm telling you that you are so full of shit that it's coming out your ears.

The only rules you violate are the ones about training your monsters naturally.

OK, so you're not cheating, but you're violating rules.

Next.

What gives you the right to expect the person you are battling to have spent all that time training?

Because, that's how the game is played. I realize, in real life, of course that it is extremely likely that my opponent has cheated. However, cheaters who don't call it cheating probably listen to the Backstreet Boys and like it.

They would have the same team or a weaker one, and who wants their opponents to have a weaker team?

A fair player. A cheater obviously doesn't care.

Do you really feel that you deserve to win because you spent all that time levelling?

Absolutely, yes.

Why don't you want your opponents to be as strong as possible? It's more fun to win that way, and it's more fun to lose that way.

Spoken like someone who didn't have to work to build a team.

I want them to have the best team they can get, so that we can fucking play Pokémon.

No, you want to play cfalcon's Special Brand of Pokemon That Isn't Quite Pokemon.

Look, I understand that lots of people cheat. Lots of people like cfalcon's Special Brand of Pokemon That Isn't Quite Pokemon. That's fine.

Just have the balls to call it cheating.

Stop insulting me by saying that hacking the fucking RAM to make the game conform to your specs is not cheating.

[ 08-31-2001: Message edited by: Mr. K ]


From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jolt135
Farting Nudist
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posted 08-31-2001 05:22 PM      Profile for Jolt135   Author's Homepage   Email Jolt135   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Let me ask one question: "What is someone SUPPOSED to do in order to win?" If I anticipate K's response (and I probably do) then this game would not have such a huge following. It would not have such complete strategies made, and probably never would. Hell, no one would be pushing NOA to allow 5000 or so people in next year's tournament; there would only be about 100 serious trainers in the U. S. They'd have all dropped out of school, be living on the streets, etc.

In conclusion, the game NEEDS its sharkers. They've really showed NOA what the game is really about, and they should continue to do so.

[ 08-31-2001: Message edited by: Jolt135 ]


From: Woodbridge, VA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
pkthunder
I look like your mom.
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posted 08-31-2001 05:52 PM      Profile for pkthunder   Author's Homepage   Email pkthunder   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No where in the "rules" of the game does it say that when you hook up for a link battle that both players had to have spent hours catching and training decent Pokémon.

I'm going to make another Magic analogy that expands on what cfalcon was talking about:

Stu spends shitloads of money on packs of Magic, opening each one individually, saving the rares, sorting the uncommons, and literally pitching all the commons. I don't have as much money as Stu. So I carefully consider which 60 cards will go into my deck (by reading articles on the internet or talking to friends) and buy them individually spending way less money (total) on cards. This is not the way the creators of Magic intended for it to go - players are "supposed" to buy packs and experience the "thrill" of opening packs and trading for cards for their decks. But people who have lots of money had the advantage. They could beat the odds of getting a good rare just by spending more money on packs.

Because I don't have all the money in the world, I think I'll "cheat." There's no other way for me to be able to compete with the caliber of Stu's decks unless I "cheat." I would have to give up food, the roof over my head, or <gasp> my car(!) in order to spend as much money on cards as Stu does.

Magic players today are playing a completely different game than Magic players played in 1993. I suppose you could say that the game is what it is today because of a)people having a monetary advantage over other players and b)what the people without as much money did to compensate.

Don't try to tell me that this is a completely different situation than Pokémon.
K, I think you just have a problem because it involves hacking RAM.

People who come into a battle with max-stat pokémon that were sharked are cheaters.

But if a person who is constructing a team for link battles decides which 6 pokémon should be on his team, decides which moves each one gets (regardless of how many TMs the game thinks he should have), spends a little time catching the pokémon with better-than-average stats, and then sharks them their moves and sends them up to level one hundred, that person is NOT CHEATING.

Oh, and forget the matter of undetectability: Stu doesn't know where or how I buy my cards (although I could tell him if I wanted).


From: Broomfield, CO | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
The Great Dreamer
Farting Nudist
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posted 08-31-2001 05:58 PM      Profile for The Great Dreamer   Email The Great Dreamer   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Captain Falcon,
Restarting the game in order to get more pokémon and items is duplication, and therefore, cheating, just like using a glitch. I said I would try to get mews from the Lab Trick, but you know what? I have realized that no matter how much I want a mew or a celebi, there is no way to get them naturaly, whenever is the Lab Trick, Nintendo's own hacking clone machine or your own, fact is that there is no natural way until the card-e reader comes out(there is a rumor that very rare Pokémon TCG cards will come out that contain mews and celebis amongst other pokémon and "prize" moves).

There is a way to detect hackers, there are ways to make sure everyone follows the rules and that way is the philter system I'm going to use in my league here in Vegas.
Back up their game when they leave league meeting and restore it when they arrive, under the supervision of me and any other honest trainer, no one will be able to hack or duplicate a thing.
I will personaly inspect the game of cheating upon joining the league and remove any variables that are out of order.
No trading will be allowed except during league time and trainers that I consider trustworthy enough may train outside leaguetime, I will inspect their carts from time to time.
I didn't want to make a system so tight but it is the only way to philter the cheats.
This system and the existance of a Strategist league in the same city to drive away like a ground wire to lightning any remaining cheaters that might try to make it on the Trainers league.

When it comes to pokémon with exact genes, meaning that they have genes exactly how you want them, it is a rare feat.
I have finished all the Chromatic series, Gold and Crystal, half way through Silver, I have not as of yet, caught a single legendary pokémon or mewtation.
Not because I don't know where they are or how to find them, no, because those pokémon are very powerful in ther types and move combinations, wich is why I only want exact genes to serve the plans that I have for that pokémon or I don't want it.
Catching legendaries without a masterball IS a bitch, let me tell you, and then when they are not the genmes you want you have to restart the game. Let's take a zapdos I want to use, rather standard;
Rain Dance
Water Power
Drill Peck
Thunder

This particular legendary needs the max stats possible to Water Power and every single specific combination of genes is as rare as a max stat, wich is a specific combination of genes in itself, as far as I know, the genes don't get more difficult to get the higher it goes.
So, I'm not going to have this zapdos if it's not all it can be, wich is why to this day I don't have one.
Also, genderless pokémon have also a disadvantage in not being able to reproduce.
When you invest a TM in one of them, you don't get a return, so you better make sure that pokémon REALLY needs it asnd make sure you're most likely not to change you mind later unless is a common TM you can get from a pokémon or get multiple copies of it somewhere else. No one in their right mind unless they don't know any better, would trade their rare pokémon or TMs, because you also have to make sure that you're not trading away your own demise.
Right now I'm in just hunting for breeding dittos, using didrio mode with my expedition team and I still haven't found one breeding ditto, so, no breeding ditto, no reduce chance to get gene exact pokémon wich in my book means no fighting pokémon because if I'm not going to get all I can from a certain pokémon I'm not going to spend my time training it.
If someone has 6 mewtwos, they spend $150 or all their rare pokémon and TMs getting them.
Chances now are that none of those m2s are gene specific and they have faulty genes considering the value of a gene exact m2.
Then you have to invest rare TMs on them wich means all your other pokémon get screwed for the most part since your breeding network is going to be incomplete.
So now, youre whole team shares the same weaknesses wich can be eploited by any player that has diversity.

Satoshi Tajiri said that he wants player to trade and that he cannoit emphasize that enough, this means that duplication of any type and hacking cripple the game balance.

Through frequency and quality, Trade balances gene exact pokémon, through the slow and tedious process of raising your pokémon, Trainning makes sure that level superiority is in check.
These 2 variables balance the game, no need of bans and clauses and all mature pokémon have a unique and respectable purpose in the game.

Like I said before, Pokémon is more like a sport than it is like chess.
You have to train to get power and then apply the power of your training with strategy in the field.

Unless you stop cheating, Captain, and play the game how it was meant to be, you'll never see how and why it works.


Jolt,
"In conclusion, the game NEEDS its sharkers. They've really showed NOA what the game is really about, and they should continue to do so." Bullshit, the Strategists only cripple the balance of the game by refusing to play by the rules. Using hacking devices to proxy play is good ONLY to know what you want to invest your time in, nothing more.
The thing is, Nintendoctrine is not as into the game as some of us are, they just want to make a "good enough" tournament system just to keep most pleased, their priority is the quantity of money they rake in, not the wuality. In Nintendo would have league such as mine, I strongly think that the game sales would do better and the customers will be happier. I'm sure that Nintendo doesn't do the things they do(or not do) to piss people off, but the thing is that they lack people who are truly into this game and it's community.


pkthunder,
"No where in the "rules" of the game does it say that when you hook up for a link battle that both players had to have spent hours catching and training decent Pokémon."
No where in the game rules does it say to USE a hacking device either.
If you talk to the game NPCs, some of them will coment on how pokémon is supposed to be played, others give you tiny examples.
They all inply to train hard and love your pokémon, none of them say create and engineer your pokémon.
If you want more solid evidence on where in the game rules does it say that, well, it says that in the PROGRAM of the game.
See, videogames don't have to show all the rules to the player because the computer will excecute the rules, unlike M:TG where a player must be told the rules in paper because the players are the catalist on where the rules are followed.
That's why it is considered CHEATING to HACK any videogame, because everyone knows that the rules of the game are written within.


"So I carefully consider which 60 cards will go into my deck (by reading articles on the internet or talking to friends) and buy them individually spending way less money (total) on cards. This is not the way the creators of Magic intended for it to"
This is simply not true, I worked in a card store before and one of the reasons Wizards makes so much money is client loyalty...no, not the clients that play the game, the clients that own the stores that allow the players to have somewhere to buy the product.
That's why WotC goes to GREAT leangths to make sure they give some cards "single sales value" and make sure the store owners make money in their single sales. How, do you ask?
By restricting rares from each and every expansion they make, those rares cannot be printed again. I remember when there was a rumor going on, right after Legends, that WotC was going to reprint dual lands and the Power 9, at that moment, all stores in Vegas and other places, called WotC, send angry e-mails and letters because this would make WotC lots of money but would cripple store owners and collectors, turns out that they where thinking about it, someone leakied the info and it got stoped. From there on, rares that are not reprinted are not to be printed in any future expansion to give store owners and collectors a chance.
So, yes, single cards sales it is the way Wizards intended it to be...

M:TG is the game it is today thanks to the DCI, wich binds the M:TG community and that's why, no matter how shitty the cards, M:TG will always make money and thrive wich is exactly what I'm trying to do since Nintendo hasn't done it.
Without the DCI, M:TG is not half the game it is today...I mean, it is now to the point where M:TG is considered a mental sport, the big matches are broadcasted in ESPN and there are proffesional Magic players that make a living by playing Magic, that's how I want the Pokémon tournament enviroment to be and I feel it can be better than M:TG because Pokémon is balanced whereas Magic is not. Also, you have to think that there is no training in Magic, you are comparing chess to martial arts, it's ridiculous for martial arts goes beyond mere strategy...so does other sports like football and basketball where strategy in game day is equaly important as the training done in the time off.


"But if a person who is constructing a team for link battles decides which 6 pokémon should be on his team, decides which moves each one gets (regardless of how many TMs the game thinks he should have), spends a little time catching the pokémon with better-than-average stats, and then sharks them their moves and sends them up to level one hundred, that person is NOT CHEATING."
This is NOT rocket science, folks, it is very simple. YOU are BREAKING the RULES, hence you ARE cheating.
No ands, no ifs, no buts.
No justifications, no excuses.
You hack or duplicate it cripples Trade and Trade is supposed to be part of the game AS PER Satoshi Tajiri, the creator of Pokémon and the person who know more than YOU on what it's cheating and what is not, and that, by his idea of Pokémon, is clearly, undeniably and most truthfully CHEATING...and there's not a damn thing you or any other Strategist, cheater or poké-hacker can do about that...

[ 08-31-2001: Message edited by: The Great Dreamer ]

- - - - -
"Pokemon, no matter what anyone says, is not just about link battles. PBS is not Pokemon." -Mr. K


From: Las Vegas were everyone uses Mimic & Metronome! | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged


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