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Author Topic: Loser vs. Cheater
Jumpman16
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posted 11-12-2000 06:34 PM      Profile for Jumpman16   Author's Homepage   Email Jumpman16   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Opinion question for you guys...for important battles, like tourneys and such, do you think that it should be allowed to shark, seeing as to how you can't tell if a team is sharked, most people do shark anyway, and you're a loser anyway if you spent countless days without food, sleep, or sex obtaining the perfect organic team? Keeping in mind that you're essentially either a loser or a big cheater, should tournaments just say "fuck it" and make sharking allowed?

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How did Drake's (Lance) Dragonite on the show know Water Gun, Fly, Body Slam, Seismic Toss, Dragon Rage, Hyper Beam, and Ice Beam, and still lose?

E-mail: andrew@fas.harvard.edu
AIM:TDAJumpman16


From: Where they make HeinzŽ ketchup | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 11-12-2000 07:11 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In answer to your sig: because it didn't know Barrier

Seriously, this is a big question. Everyone has their own opinions.

I look at it like this: "legal" sharking (where you monsters turn out legal) is undectable, so it's already allowed.

Honestly, N can't say "sure, shark". They can't. If I was in charge of them this second I wouldn't have that as an official line. It implies that you need a shark.

If you don't *like* raising monsters, but you do like battling, I'm all for you sharking up a fair team... not everyone is. I could see someone's request to not use sharked monsters of anykind...

It all comes down to this:

"If you shark yourself a team, you are giving yourself an advantage".

Some of you think "That's cheating!". Others think "Of course I want an advantage. If my opponent has wit, he'll do the same thing".

I'm not going to make that call. When I went to tournament my backup monsters were sharked, and one or two of them saw use. They weren't max statted or anything... but what if they were? If max stats are bad, when do sharked stats become fair? People have natural max stats, you know...

This is becoming even sillier with Unown's signature move (which someone sent a file to me that looked comprehensive, and was for the values that I checked, but I didn't have time to look over thoroughly). That will be sharked for some tournaments, I'm sure. I probably will myself. If Nintendo, knowing the implications of such a move, would still opt to release it I can only say that they are asking for it.

It looks like being a serious contender at tournament will almost require a shark in the future: this isn't to say you won't be able to take your team of good gened, natural monsters and take out a bunch of schmucks who sharked: it means that you will have a hard time taking down a good trainer with good monsters, and the shark will see to it that he has them.

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-cfalcon

FIREBREATHER DICK wants to battle!


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jumpman16
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posted 11-12-2000 07:32 PM      Profile for Jumpman16   Author's Homepage   Email Jumpman16   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by cfalcon:
In answer to your sig: because it didn't know Barrier


Haha...I remember you're quote about "Lance the muthafuckin Dragon Master." (Dragonite with...Barrier?) That's a classic, if he'd used Barrier first, his other 7 attacks would've been nicely complimented. Oh, and about your post, you're opinion seems good, I guess you do have to kinda shark max stats to win. (Sharking TMs and moves really isn't an issue because anyone can use the Missingno trick and we can all tell that Dragonite shoudn't have Barrier, unless you haven't done your homework, in which case you deserve to lose.) It's is kinda about being smart and realizing that your opponent probably has max stats too.

Anyone else care to venture ideas?

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How did Drake's (Lance) Dragonite on the show know Water Gun, Fly, Body Slam, Seismic Toss, Dragon Rage, Hyper Beam, and Ice Beam, and still lose?

E-mail: andrew@fas.harvard.edu
AIM:TDAJumpman16


From: Where they make HeinzŽ ketchup | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Footitch
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posted 11-12-2000 09:12 PM      Profile for Footitch   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
cfalcon spelled "undetectable" wrong. Haha.

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-ƒřř†|†˘H
"Drew, are you green?" -My teacher, after noticing that some vegetable coloring had stained my face and hands.
-----
If you are already insane, then there is nothing to worry about.


From: ===D ()-: | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Uiru
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posted 11-13-2000 09:22 AM      Profile for Uiru   Author's Homepage   Email Uiru   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If you have to give yourself an advantage to beat someone who doesn't, you automatically lose. Even if you win.

I got no problem with duping TM's. My Red cartridge is loaded. Every time I want to train up a new Pokémon, it goes there for moves and PP Ups and to Blue for drugs and maybe Rare Candies if I'm feeling lazy that day. But, everybody can and does do that and the worst consequence is NOT having to go through another game all the way just to get another Earthquake TM.

As far as the Shark goes, if you Shark your Pokémon up to their PERSONAL max stats, that's fine. I don't care if you don't want to train it or not, but as long as your 11/15/14/1/15 Porygon STAYS an 11/15/14/1/15 Porygon, you aren't really breaking any rules. You make one DV higher than it should be and you're cheating and shouldn't be allowed to play. If you want better DV's, go catch some.

Manipulating DV's for Hidden Power is wrong as well. Unless, of course, you don't make any values higher than they should be. If you want to take a few DV's DOWN to get your optimal HP, go right ahead. It's not like a 70 power anything is going to do much, unless it's a Fire or Water attack you can change the weather for. Giving your Pokémon a handicap for it is a fair tradeoff, even though it isn't entirely right.

My entire team is devoid of Shark and I'd like to keep it that way. A lot of them were lucky catches, so I didn't waste too much time at all on them. The only things I'd consider using a Shark for (on either my Red or Gold games, as they're the dummy test cartridges ^_^) are renaming my Mew and giving my Moltres Safeguard, which it would have had anyhow had I been paying attention. And I don't entirely feel right about that, either.
~Uiru wonders how hard it'd be to make some kind of game code that would protect it from cheating devices

PS. Here are the all natural DV's of my main teams.
Venusaur: 3/12/12/15/15 (very quick)
Sandslash: 13/9/15/10/15 (took a while)
Alakazam: 9/9/14/14/15 (third one caught, bay-bee!)
Starmie: 14/5/11/15/14 (took forever, but it was worth it)
Magmar: 5/14/13/14/13 (Magmar ALWAYS take forever)
Snorlax: 14/3/15/5/14 (used as Elemental... third one caught)

Moltres: 15/13/15/15/13 (fourth or fifth one caught)
Crobat: 11/13/12/13/15 (took a while)
Steelix: 13/13/15/10/15 (also took forever)
Heracross: 15/15/9/13/13 (FIRST one caught!)
Kingdra: 15/11/5/15/15 (took like ten minutes)
Porygon2: 11/15/14/1/15 (look familiar? Took like five tries)

(edit: Snorlax's AT DV should have been 3. ^_^; When its attacks are Ice Beam and Thunderbolt, you don't care what the AT is. ^_^)

[This message has been edited by Uiru (edited 11-13-2000).]


From: the floating castle of Newfoundland | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 11-13-2000 01:05 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You don't get a strength 70 attack. You get a strength 140 attack. After all, you only use it when it would be super effective (think electric versus ground. Most electrics get electric moves and that's it, along with good special and speed. That's why ground is immune to electric: otherwise electric's first strike could seriously weaken the ground type [this is part of the reason fire is so weak in the chromatics: water isn't always faster]. Use a water attack and you have a super powered move using your special. If they are rock / ground (normally a fine call against the electrics which might have a normal attack) then you just won).

Lowering some genes to raise others (HP) is the same level as modification as others.

Personally, some monsters I just pick stats for. Others I catch. If I was going to a serious tournament I wonder if I would make any considerations besides "I might get caught" for maxxing the team. Uiru, you have a valid opinion on this. I just think there's a lot of valid opinions, and in order to fully have fun with the game you need to communicate with your opponent ahead of time.

Tournament makes that hard.

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-cfalcon

FIREBREATHER DICK wants to battle!


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Uiru
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posted 11-13-2000 03:49 PM      Profile for Uiru   Author's Homepage   Email Uiru   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, any kind of DV modification is wrong... Heh. I wanted a Fire Power Espeon for the longest time a while ago. It'd be the starter that annihilated all the Scizor and Forretress in one go. ^_^ Then I found out while training my Golbat that trying to get a Pokémon from another cart happy enough to evolve was a bitch and a half... so I probably wouldn't have gotten Morning Sunlight or whatever they called it onto it in time. I could have just GS'd up a proper Eevee in G/S itself, but then it wouldn't have been mine, would it? It'd have been the Shark's Eevee, which would have ruined the entire purpose of the exercise. ^_^
~Uiru still doesn't have his Espeon...

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From: the floating castle of Newfoundland | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Cuban B
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posted 11-13-2000 06:49 PM      Profile for Cuban B   Email Cuban B   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
this is a pretty interesting topic, and something i've pondered since i started reading 'net pokemon boards.

i don't shark. i consider it cheating.

i also don't use anything i consider Legendary (5 L. Birds, 3 L. Quadrapeds, Mewtwo, Mew, Celebi). mainly because, according to the storyline, these pokemon are unique. one of a kind. most likely only one exists in the world.

given that, how can i feel right about using one in a tournament? it just never sat right with me. i always saw myself as a more, i guess, "common" pokemon trainer. pokemon that are more widely available in the world
(basically, all 240 other pokemon) were where i created my stable from.

before, i knew that everyone and their mom used a Mewtwo. i refused to use one. i went to a tournament and lost basically because i couldn't take down a Mewtwo. that upset me, but i moved on, for i love my pokemon and i knew they were good overall.

now, here, i see a lot of people like to shark. i'm pretty much against it. i won't stop other people from doing it, and i won't through a hissy fit over it, i just don't like it.

certain things, again, are acceptable. i dupe TMs, Rare Candies, Vitamins and Master Balls. i dupe them in the game, in Red i used Missingno., in Silver i use the box swap trick.

i dupe items because i simply don't have that much time on my hands to play through the game multiple times for TMs, to even afford the amount of Vitamins i need since i can't spend that much time battling the E4 over and over and over. i have other things to do.

but i love to battle. i've beaten the game and i've filled up the pokedex to max. i feel that i now have earned the right to dupe these items so that i may quickly train a competetive team and still have all my options available to me.

and for this, dupeing items, if u want to shark for that, hey, more power to you. i understand the need for that.

but this trend of sharking Hidden Powers and DVs, i think that's plain wrong.

i keep seeing posts with teams in it with sharked HP moves. i don't consider that a real moveset, and it provides nothing to me in the way of a real strategy or unique insight.

anyone with the money and internet access can shark up a HP-type move for their pokemon that they normally could never have had. that's not skill.

i dunno. it sort of upsets me because i wonder if the next time i go to a tournament if that's all i'll see.

but what can i do? well, nothing except enjoy the company of my beloved, natural pokes and have them fight their best.

in the end, i can think of only one type of person who i would allow to use a shark to alter the genes of their pokemon. if that person happened to be a Geneticist (sp?) in real life, as a professional occupation, and that man has the knowledge and skill to alter genes in real life, then yes, that man and that man only has the right to alter a pokemon's genes. =)

thanks, but that's just my opinion, i could be wrong.

-Cuban B

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"Yo, I'm Cuban, B!"
"Yes! Cuban B!"
-Scarface & Samson


From: Boston, MA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
The Great Dreamer
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posted 11-13-2000 07:28 PM      Profile for The Great Dreamer   Email The Great Dreamer   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hacking and duplicating for competition is cheating because it is simply breaking the rules. Track & Field sports are not JUST about the task at hand, is about how hard those athletes train, same concept with Pokémon. The purpose of the game is not JUST in the battle, is in the Training and Trading as well. Training, Trading and Tactics compse the balance of pokémon, without it, it becomes unbalanced.
Training and Trading are there for a reason, they are not enforced to complicate our lives, they are there to prevent the game from becoming broken...

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"I'll agree with Dreamer, except hopefully I won't mizpel werdz." -cfalcon


From: Las Vegas were everyone uses Mimic & Metronome! | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jumpman16
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posted 11-14-2000 05:07 PM      Profile for Jumpman16   Author's Homepage   Email Jumpman16   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cuban B:
before, i knew that everyone and their mom used a Mewtwo. i refused to use one. i went to a tournament and lost basically because i couldn't take down a Mewtwo. that upset me, but i moved on, for i love my pokemon and i knew they were good overall.


I'm not saying I'd use mine in battle, but I think my Mewtwo's far less cheap than the normal perception of him because I caught him with an Ultra Ball. I purposely set out to catch him without using my Master Ball, which I did had with me at the time but wanted to have some fun with the game, a real challenge. The thrill I got when I realized that he wouldn't break out of my Ultra Ball is unparalleled with any feeling that winning with sharked Pokémon could spark. That takes mad skill (and a little luck, which is what Pokémon is all about, really), not chucking some "guarantee" ball that ensures that everybody has a Mewtwo. What I did vs. using a Master Ball can easily be compared to training the "hard" way vs. punching numbers into some gameshark. What do you think?

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How did Drake's (Lance) Dragonite on the show know Water Gun, Fly, Body Slam, Seismic Toss, Dragon Rage, Hyper Beam, and Ice Beam, and still lose?
"because it didn't know Barrier :)"-cfalcon

E-mail: andrew@fas.harvard.edu
AIM:TDAJumpman16


From: Where they make HeinzŽ ketchup | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 11-14-2000 10:02 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't think that someone who spends a lot of time at a strategy game should have a better shot than someone else. I understand how it makes sense and everything, with in game logic. That doesn't cut it.

Here's the gist of it:

Sharking within the rules (gene modification and such) doesn't make the game "broken". If the game is broken, it wasn't us (or Interact) that did it.

Which is scenerio is better:

(1) You go to tournament. One guy who honestly caught everything has max and near max stat monsters. More signifigantly, he has max speed in all the important monsters and the right genes for Hidden Power. He takes everyone down.

(2) Everyone has whatever they want. Battles are determined solely by the following factors:
a- Correct monster selection
b- Correct moveset selection
c- Proper in game handling
d- In battle luck


None of these are "Defying ludicrous odds to pull the most unbeatable monster out of my ass".

My general path has always been to try and catch the monster, not just shark it (with respect to genes). Usually I'll catch the silly thing at level 100 to compare it's stats. If it's something I want to keep for real, I'll shark it's level down and raise it (I enjoy raising them).

Generaly speaking, I'll probably be able to stick with that.

However: If I need a monster with Hidden Power, I won't even mess with it. When it comes down to it, I can't tolerate that. If I need a power 70 attack in a specific element I'm sure as hell getting it.

If there's some out with breeding (I haven't fully reviewed Meowth's work) then I'll do that instead, if I can.

It's a valid viewpoint not to do it in this way: I just draw a line between the single player and the multiplayer. If you don't, that's fine too.

Genes were bad enough. The new gene dependent stuff should never have been coded.

My opinion: I won't let Nintendo stand in the way of me and a tournament team. My policy is that you shouldn't either.

One of the reasons I like the shark is it puts you in control. Then you can control how much in or out of the lines you stand. It's your responsibility to communicate this to your opponents in general.

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-cfalcon

"The story ends here"
-The Legend of Zelda


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Uiru
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posted 11-15-2000 03:49 PM      Profile for Uiru   Author's Homepage   Email Uiru   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Um, yo? (1) DESERVES to wipe the floor with everyone else. If (2) were any good, there'd be no point to DV's in the first place. CATCHING is obviously a big part of this game, and if you aren't willing to catch your own Pokémon you should find something else to waste your time with. ^_^ Besides, breeding can quickly produce four, five and six way maxes easily. My rival Gremio's entire freaking team is at least four way max all around, and his entire team was breeded. (Except for his Raikou, which he caught with bastardly good stats *AND* a 70 Water Power... The child is SATAN, I tell you!) Once I catch a great stud Ditto, I'll be breeding my boys up. (They're all male... 'Cept for Porygon and Moltres, of course. ^_^)

Oh, yeah... I make it a point to catch everything with Ultra Balls. Mewtwo was fun. ^_^ My Mewtwo is rigged right up- HP and SA Max, AT and SP -4, and DF -16 (who cares). With the good old Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Amnesia and Recover. Of course, I'd never use the thing. I haven't even trained it up yet. ^_^
~Uiru

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From: the floating castle of Newfoundland | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 11-15-2000 05:25 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Do you deserve to lose because of bad luck catching monsters?

I say no.


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Uiru
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posted 11-15-2000 08:43 PM      Profile for Uiru   Author's Homepage   Email Uiru   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Catching them is just as important as training them. If you can't catch and you aren't happy with their stats, tough. Stats really aren't the end-all either- trainer skill, weakness and the random number all have more of an impact on damage done than the DV's do. Speed is really the most important stat, and even then it's only really important on some Pokémon. When we catch a three or four way max, it's great for showing off, but -6 or -8 in a non-Speed or Health stat probably wouldn't be noticed. The difference my Sandslash's -12 AT and a max AT Sandslash's Earthquake would be something like four points (on average), while the random number would cause a difference of about twenty.

"It's a poor workman who blames his tools." Max stats do not make you a god, nor should you have to sit up at night catching fifty thousand Grimer looking for the perfect one. (Heh, I'm one to talk... ^_^;; But I had an excuse. I was looking for a good Magmar.) If your Pokémon is fast, look for good Speed and acceptable other stats. They don't have to be perfect. If you're looking for, say, Shuckle, all you need is DF and SD- not exactly hard.

Sharking yourself max stats essentially says that you are so insecure and unsure of your own abilities that you have to scrape together every possible advantage you can find to overcome your opponent. And the stats won't have that much impact on your performance anyway! Any trainer who is better than you and trains his Pokémon right will still mop the floor with you, max stats or not. So why cheat?
~Uiru

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From: the floating castle of Newfoundland | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 11-15-2000 08:57 PM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
cfalcon: Do you deserve to lose because of bad luck catching monsters?

I say no.

I say yes.

Catching is part of the game. Ash can't just go to Nurse Joy and ask her to scramble Pikachu's DNA.

I wish Sharks didn't exist and you couldn't clone. That'd make certain Pokemon very special.

I also wish you couldn't use the godly guys on your team, as it really doesn't make any sense.

At any rate, what's the difference between getting a lucky crit hit and catching a lucky one in a million Psyduck?

Sharks suck away the RPG element...altho I know you think that's a good thing...

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"Well I know I should say no, but it's kind of hard when she's ready to go."
-Offspring


From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jumpman16
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posted 11-16-2000 12:30 AM      Profile for Jumpman16   Author's Homepage   Email Jumpman16   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cuban B:
but i love to battle. i've beaten the game and i've filled up the pokedex to max. i feel that i now have earned the right to dupe these items so that i may quickly train a competetive team and still have all my options available to me.


[b]Great point, Cuban. We should feel a "right" to dupe items. I know most people woudn't think of this, and wouldn't care, but it's something to be thought of. A newbie to Pokémon, or one that doesn't really want to be bothered with going through the RPG, hasn't really "earned the right" to dupe items. Alas, most of these kinds of people take it one step further and shark a dream team. But you point is sound; we should feel like we've earned certain things through playing the game and training our Pokémon. Kinda like after your game erases after you raised the perfect genetic Slowbro or Alakazam by hand...you'd shark to get [b]them[b] back, now wouldn't you? You earned them fair and square, so I don't see why you (or anyone else) should have a problem with sharking them back.

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How did Drake's (Lance) Dragonite on the show know Water Gun, Fly, Body Slam, Seismic Toss, Dragon Rage, Hyper Beam, and Ice Beam, and still lose?
"because it didn't know Barrier :)"-cfalcon

E-mail: andrew@fas.harvard.edu
AIM:TDAJumpman16


From: Where they make HeinzŽ ketchup | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Gloomboy
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posted 11-16-2000 02:33 AM      Profile for Gloomboy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To Uiru:

breeding can quickly produce four, five and six way maxes easily.

So,if I breed a Chansey with a Snorlax,I'll get a Chansey with max attack and defense?

Stats really aren't the end-all either- trainer skill

Oh,I definitely agree with you - in fact,just because you don't have max stats means you'll always lose battles,at least in the game. I never have time in the beginning to catch a max-stat Caterpie or whatnot,so I have to take what I get before I can dupe anything.

I also agree - I use the Missingno in Blue and Red to dupe TMs and other stuff. I hate the thought of having to play one of my carts six hundred times to get all the Body Slams I need for my team. I never sharked RBY.

However,I hate the dupe trick in G/S - pulling out the power is risky. If you don't do it JUST right,the game crashes and you'll lose everything. Poof.

That's why I use the Shark on G/S.

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* GLOOMBOY: The Vileplume Trainer *

AMY: "You gave up being study buddies for THIS?"
Sailor Moon S: "Dangerous Driving"


From: San Antonio, Texas | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Crimzonite
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posted 11-16-2000 04:55 AM      Profile for Crimzonite     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jumpman16:


How did Drake's (Lance) Dragonite on the show know Water Gun, Fly, Body Slam, Seismic Toss, Dragon Rage, Hyper Beam, and Ice Beam, and still lose?



Erm, Drake and Lance are two different people. Drake's original name is Yuuji. Lance's original name is Wataru.

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Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 11-16-2000 07:32 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Shuckle wants max HP. He has low defense, therefore his hitpoints count more. Much like Chansey wants high defense. Because of the way the maths work, your effective defense (HP * defense) is easier to raise with a linear increase in the lower one- the same for effective defense.

I often feel that the shark spoils stuff. Geez, it lets you edit the RAM!

If Nintendo was hardcore about it, they could keep stuff out of the range of mortal gamers, surely. They don't really care. Usually they shouldn't: after all, what does it matter what you do with your gaming experience?

The problem is with link battles, naturally.

Because the shark exists, however, we should know how to use it.

I agree that it cheapens the RPG element. I only think that's a good thing for the actual battles...

...but I can see disagreeing.

The difference between the lucky crit hit and the lucky monster is not only one of odds but also of permanent returns: that lucky monster could theoretically make you well nigh undefeatable in a world without sharks (max speed Mewtwo in chromatic land).

Thankfully, Nintendo has cups to avoid the deity level monsters- but no one takes the very valid petit cup truly seriously. Even poké cup gets ignored (poké cup allows the legendary birds, but at least bans the MewX family).

Hopefully they'll have answers to this in the next Stadium.

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-cfalcon

"The story ends here"
-The Legend of Zelda


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
*Scyther
Farting Nudist
Member # 327

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posted 11-17-2000 04:36 PM      Profile for *Scyther   Email *Scyther   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I purposely set out to catch him without using my Master Ball, which I did had with me at the time but wanted to have some fun with the game, a real challenge.

in my red ver. before i dropped it one too many times, my goal was to catch it in a pokeball, like i somehow managed to do wiht every other pokemon i caught.

i am against sharking stats. i didn't painstakingly raise my pikachu in my yellow and gold verion all the way to the point where the only thing that could take it down was blue's rhydon, and that was after the pikachu was weakened, just to have it get its butt kicked by some stupid cheater's stat pumped virtually invincible mewtwo!

now sharking items on the other hand..that i consider ok.

does anyone know the formula for EXP points?

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Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jumpman16
Farting Nudist
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posted 11-18-2000 12:20 AM      Profile for Jumpman16   Author's Homepage   Email Jumpman16   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Crimzonite:
Erm, Drake and Lance are two different people. Drake's original name is Yuuji. Lance's original name is Wataru.




Whatever. On the show his name was Drake, as other watchers can attest to. And in the game, of course, he's Lance. Kudos that you konw the Japanese names and what-not, but do your homework.

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How did Drake's (Lance) Dragonite know Water Gun, Fly, Body Slam, Seismic Toss, Dragon Rage, Hyper Beam, and Ice Beam, and still lose?

"Because it didn't know Barrier :)"
-cfalcon

E-mail: andrew@fas.harvard.edu
AIM:TDAJumpman16


From: Where they make HeinzŽ ketchup | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
White Cat
Nobody knows why I'm an admin.
Member # 42

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posted 11-18-2000 05:51 AM      Profile for White Cat   Author's Homepage   Email White Cat      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
His point is that Lance and Drake are not the same character. The fact that their Japanese names are different proves that it's not like the Lorlei/Prima thing. If Drake was Lance, his team would have been all dragons...

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"I heard that Bush didn't even know who Canada's president is."
-- Member of Al Gore's campaign staff


From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jumpman16
Farting Nudist
Member # 1089

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posted 11-18-2000 03:59 PM      Profile for Jumpman16   Author's Homepage   Email Jumpman16   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ok...I just put the name Lance in parentheses there because a whole lot of people here don't watch the show, or maybe missed that episode, and therefore wouldn't get the joke.

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How did Drake's (Lance) Dragonite know Water Gun, Fly, Body Slam, Seismic Toss, Dragon Rage, Hyper Beam, and Ice Beam, and still lose?
"Because it didn't know Barrier :)"-cfalcon

E-mail: andrew@fas.harvard.edu
AIM:TDAJumpman16


From: Where they make HeinzŽ ketchup | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
mewtwo's fortress
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posted 12-08-2000 11:06 PM      Profile for mewtwo's fortress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Uiru:
My rival Gremio's entire freaking team is at least four way max all around, and his entire team was breeded. (Except for his Raikou, which he caught with bastardly good stats *AND* a 70 Water Power... The child is SATAN, I tell you!)


um you cant get a raikou with good stats and water hp
because to get water hp you need to have an average dv of 5 or soemthing like that
here go to this link
it is good info wheter it is theirs or not
pokemasters is a good resource but a bad ubb
http://www.pokemasters.com/gameboy/gold_silver/hidden_power.html

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Homer: [on phone] Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night.
They just plain sucked! I've seen teams suck before, but
they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.
Marge: Homer! Watch your mouth!
Homer: Aw, I gotta go. My damn weiner kids are listening.


From: the cold, dark depths of mewtwo's fortess | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
magmar5
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posted 12-10-2000 05:24 PM      Profile for magmar5   Author's Homepage   Email magmar5   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
well, 80% of people cheat so it should be leagle, unless a real loser is playing b/c then, you'll just get annoyed by all that bitching that you'll forfiet, so, i guess just jok the major losers.

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da GS stadium Master
If i got a dollar fore each time i cybered, i'd have enough money to get laid- magmar5


From: new jersey | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Velox
Farting Nudist
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posted 12-22-2000 04:50 PM      Profile for Velox   Author's Homepage   Email Velox   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Stat-Sharking is for weak, pathetic fools who can't settle for anything less than instant gratification.

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-Mysterious Priest Velox

Karnivax: Did you get to come up with the nicknames for the Pokémon that you trade for in-game? (Lola the Jynx, Crinkles the Tangela et al)
Nob Donut: No
Nob Donut: none of that stuff is my fault
Karnivax: Whew.
Nob Donut: yeah, i think so too. I'd be using names like Biff, Pongo, Goober, that sort of thing


From: Philadelphia, PA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
OLDNBLD
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posted 12-23-2000 03:46 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh come now.

Isn't that a little under thought out?


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Velox
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posted 12-23-2000 04:46 PM      Profile for Velox   Author's Homepage   Email Velox   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
>>Oh come now. Isn't that a little under thought out?

Actually, no. It isn't.

------------------
-Mysterious Priest Velox

Karnivax: Did you get to come up with the nicknames for the Pokémon that you trade for in-game? (Lola the Jynx, Crinkles the Tangela et al)
Nob Donut: No
Nob Donut: none of that stuff is my fault
Karnivax: Whew.
Nob Donut: yeah, i think so too. I'd be using names like Biff, Pongo, Goober, that sort of thing


From: Philadelphia, PA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
starCaliber
is evil and also MewtwoSama
Member # 268

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posted 12-24-2000 02:06 PM      Profile for starCaliber   Email starCaliber   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
magmar5: well, 80% of people cheat so it should be leagle

Where the hell did this figure come from?

If you just pulled it out of your ass, I swear...


From: San Francisco, CA | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jigglypuff
Farting Nudist
Member # 144

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posted 12-24-2000 06:35 PM      Profile for Jigglypuff   Email Jigglypuff   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jumpman16:
The thrill I got when I realized that he wouldn't break out of my Ultra Ball is unparalleled with any feeling that winning with sharked Pokémon could spark.

YOU GOT IT!

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Visit Neopets


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Tomara
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posted 12-25-2000 03:34 AM      Profile for Tomara   Email Tomara   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think training is a waste of time,I have a life syaknow.
I catch the pokes I need(with gs but without masterballs) then I give them max exp and max stat exp,after that I shark the right moves on them.
that can be done in an hour instead of a week!

I think sharking should be allowed as long as there are rules.


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Velox
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posted 12-25-2000 04:52 PM      Profile for Velox   Author's Homepage   Email Velox   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
>>I think training is a waste of time,I have a life syaknow.

"I Shark because I have a life." A classic, albeit PATHETIC, excuse.

One can easily train Pokémon and still maintain a life! You needn't play more than an hour a day of Pokémon to put together a good legal team. All you need is PATIENCE. Do any of you Stat-Sharking twits know what PATIENCE is?

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[Sig deleted due to absurd length.]


From: Philadelphia, PA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
Member # 290

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posted 12-26-2000 02:31 PM      Profile for Psybro   Email Psybro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Velox:
Do any of you Stat-Sharking twits know what PATIENCE is?



It's something that isn't neccessary when all your doing is playing a motherfucking game.

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"A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on"-Sam Goldwyn
Not related to the G/S Lord Psybro.
Psybro's Pokémon Palace


From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Velox
Farting Nudist
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posted 12-26-2000 09:49 PM      Profile for Velox   Author's Homepage   Email Velox   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
>>It's something that isn't neccessary when all your doing is playing a motherfucking game.

Goddish forbid you should have some motherfucking ethics.

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[Sig deleted due to absurd length.]


From: Philadelphia, PA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
Member # 290

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posted 12-27-2000 11:31 AM      Profile for Psybro   Email Psybro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ethics are for real life.
Games are for winning.

------------------
"A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on"-Sam Goldwyn
Not related to the G/S Lord Psybro.
Psybro's Pokémon Palace


From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Velox
Farting Nudist
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posted 12-27-2000 02:43 PM      Profile for Velox   Author's Homepage   Email Velox   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
By that logic, you condone cheating in any major sporting event, provided you don't get caught.

Are you really that pathetic that you need a crutch like a Gameshark to win?

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[Sig deleted due to absurd length.]


From: Philadelphia, PA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Dragonite21
Farting Nudist
Member # 475

posted 12-27-2000 04:40 PM      Profile for Dragonite21     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have a shark. And I use it for duping TMs. I simply haven't got the time to be playing through the game mulitple times just to get one more Earthquake TM.

As for catching/raising, that's what Dodrio mode on Stadium was invented for .

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-Dragonite21

Do be do la la goldfish


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Blade
Orangutan Spouse
Member # 820

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posted 12-27-2000 06:19 PM      Profile for Blade   Email Blade   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I bet all you pokemon moralists are against genetic engineering too because its cheating at nature or something. Its a damn site faster than breeding and mutating the traits you want onto lifeforms just as sharking is a damn site faster and more efficient use of your time than spending months making tornament pokemon. In the end so long as your poke are within the legal limits of what its possible to do in the game, you can't possibly cheat in the tournament and it will come down to who has made the best team choices and move sets since every serious contender goes in with good stat pokemon any how, no matter how they obtained them. It seems your major complaint is that the gameshark is a faster way to obtain natural results and you object to people doing it faster than you do. Stop complaining and let people do things however they want so long as they don't exceed what it is possible to achieve any how.

[This message has been edited by Blade (edited 12-27-2000).]


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cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19

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posted 12-28-2000 05:45 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, the actual arguement wouldn't be genetic engineering, but something like using a calculator to solve a really long division problem. Sure, you would derive some satisfaction from it. You might also derive pleausre from it, depending on whether long division is your thing...

You see my point.

------------------
-cfalcon

"THIS IS NO GAME. MY ASS IS ON THE LINE!"
-Samurai Goroh, reminding the readers of the Super Famicom F-Zero instruction book that Japanese games are cooler than American ones


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Artie Cuno
Linkin125473457539
Member # 1205

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posted 12-28-2000 12:00 PM      Profile for Artie Cuno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
*sigh* And the debate rages on...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Can't you just use your shark to find, say, Celebi and Mew, or the mutts/boids if you fainted 'em,and maybe get another mud slap/shadow ball/whatever TM if you used it? I'm getting a shark today, and I'm only going to shark up a Mew because I've been searching for one, MINUS SHARK, for TWO FRIGGIN' YEARS. Anyone who says it isn't fair to shark up the pokemon I've wasted two years of my life searching for can KISS MY UNHOLY ASS. Thank you .

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^_~ GO ARTIE! ~_^


From: A box in a swamp. With your sister. | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
Member # 290

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posted 12-28-2000 02:06 PM      Profile for Psybro   Email Psybro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Velox:
By that logic, you condone cheating in any major sporting event, provided you don't get caught.


Major sporting events involve winning money.
Pokémon is just for fun.
There is nothing fun about spending weeks finding and training Pokémon with good DVs to Level 100.
If we're talking about banning Sharks in tournies, I can see your point, but otherwise, you're merely being overzealous.

I do not own a copy of Stadium. I could, applying your logic, accuse anyone who has ever used Dodrio Mode to help capture or train Pokémon of having an unfair advantage, and therefore being a cheater.

------------------
"A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on"-Sam Goldwyn
Not related to the G/S Lord Psybro.
Psybro's Pokémon Palace


From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Velox
Farting Nudist
Member # 913

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posted 12-28-2000 05:47 PM      Profile for Velox   Author's Homepage   Email Velox   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
>>Major sporting events involve winning money.
Pokémon is just for fun.

You can't make that distinction by just saying "games."

>>There is nothing fun about spending weeks finding and training Pokémon with good DVs to Level 100.

My experiences dictate that that's a gross exaggeration, but whatever...

>>If we're talking about banning Sharks in tournies, I can see your point,

Nice to know we agree on something.

>>but otherwise, you're merely being overzealous.

>>I do not own a copy of Stadium. I could, applying your logic, accuse anyone who has ever used Dodrio Mode to help capture or train Pokémon of having an unfair advantage, and therefore being a cheater.

YOUR logic (which you are trying to pass off as MY logic) is flawed. The difference between a Shark and Stadium is that Stadium is supplied by Nintendo itself. They WANT you to use it (see, they make money that way). It is not their intent, however, for you to use a Gameshark. If Nintendo wanted you to get perfect-stat Pokémon at will, they THEMSELVES would have supplied you with a way to do it.

------------------
[Sig deleted due to absurd length.]


From: Philadelphia, PA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
Member # 290

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posted 12-30-2000 09:24 AM      Profile for Psybro   Email Psybro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Velox:
You can't make that distinction by just saying "games."

Granted. Let's say "non-tournament Pokémon games".

quote:

The difference between a Shark and Stadium is that Stadium is supplied by Nintendo itself. They WANT you to use it (see, they make money that way). It is not their intent, however, for you to use a Gameshark.


If Nintendo told you that you would become a Pokémon master by jumping off a cliff, would you do it?

------------------
"A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on"-Sam Goldwyn
Not related to the G/S Lord Psybro.
Psybro's Pokémon Palace


From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Velox
Farting Nudist
Member # 913

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posted 12-30-2000 07:33 PM      Profile for Velox   Author's Homepage   Email Velox   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
>>If Nintendo told you that you would become a Pokémon master by jumping off a cliff, would you do it?

Way to completely miss the point.

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[Sig deleted due to absurd length.]


From: Philadelphia, PA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
Member # 290

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posted 12-31-2000 02:37 PM      Profile for Psybro   Email Psybro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Velox:
Way to completely miss the point.



Thanks.
Now you see why I never contributed to any of the old Mewtwo threads.

------------------
"..."-Red
Not related to the G/S Lord Psybro.
Psybro's Pokémon Palace


From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19

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posted 01-08-2001 08:39 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, the point is valid about those who bring added cost into the equation- basically accusing their opponents of "buying" their better monsters for $30 (the shark). No one calls Dodrio mode that, and it costs more.

However, it is very valid to say that Nintendo "does not want" you using the Shark. This doesn't mean you should use the shark, simply that you should view it's use as potentially in violation of the rules. Clearly, you aren't meant to have a 1023 stat something. The more questionably behavior is when you modify monsters to get stuff you could have gotten in game in less time.

------------------
-cfalcon

"THIS IS NO GAME. MY ASS IS ON THE LINE!"
-Samurai Goroh, reminding the readers of the Super Famicom F-Zero instruction book that Japanese games are cooler than American ones


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
UberSchmack
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Member # 1303

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posted 01-08-2001 06:21 PM      Profile for UberSchmack   Email UberSchmack   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I say Shark away. Nothing thrills me more than pasting some idiot's sharked up Pokčmon with a team that I took the effort of raising myself.

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"This isn't a guy who built the railroads here, this is a guy who peed on my rug!" -Jeff Daniels; The Big Lebowski


From: St. Louis, Missouri USA | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged
*HeRaCr0sS*
Farting Nudist
Member # 1193

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posted 01-08-2001 06:25 PM      Profile for *HeRaCr0sS*     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Uiru clearly stated my opinion when he said:
"I could have just GS'd up a proper Eevee in G/S itself, but then it wouldn't have been mine, would it? It'd have been the Shark's Eevee..."

I spent a long, long, long time breeding Ditto with a Primeape and Eevee. My best Mankey was a 7/12/15/15/11 and for Eevee a 15/15/15/15/11. You dunno how tempting it was for me to shark my Mankey's Attack to a 13, or my Eevee's Speed to a 13, but I realized, if I sharked any of my DV's, all of those long hours of breeding would've been for nothing. It would've been the same as sharking the first PKMN caught.

I used to be a sharker. Then, my Silver crashed. My sharked Max stat team was gone. However, I didn't lose any sleep over it. That team was all sharked, acquired in a matter of minutes and were easily replaced. My Eevee and Mankey can't be replaced. If my game crashed again, I would be terribly upset, because they were legit, strong PKMN, that I got the right way. Even if I did have a 15/15/15/15/11 before, sharking one to replace it would still bug me.

I guess a lot of this goes down to your morals and what you feel as right or wrong. The only sharking I'm up for is speeding up egg hatching, sharking max stat exp(I still feel a bit guilty about this), infecting PKMN with PokéRus(if I don't want to shark max stat exp), and duping items.

------------------
Quik PokéFunnies! Topic: Idiot's Guide to TPM
"Jolteon- TWave, TBolt, Roar, Double team @Miracle Seed" - Scizor007
HyA_DEATH_DBS's Quadruple(or is it more?) Posting
"yo people, i have a question to ask you. How do you know when you've encountered a shiny pokemon??? the reason i ask this is because i think my damn game is defective and came with no shiny pokemon." - evil_trainer
*TPMers* I'm not mocking you. This is just for a harmless laugh. =)


From: Sexyville | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Velox
Farting Nudist
Member # 913

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posted 01-08-2001 08:05 PM      Profile for Velox   Author's Homepage   Email Velox   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
>>I say Shark away. Nothing thrills me more than pasting some idiot's sharked up Pokčmon with a team that I took the effort of raising myself.

Hallelujah, brother!

------------------
-Mysterious Priest Velox


From: Philadelphia, PA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
ProTrainer2001
Farting Nudist
Member # 1384

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posted 01-09-2001 06:10 PM      Profile for ProTrainer2001   Email ProTrainer2001   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ok one I don't think maxing out stats with a gameshark is wrong. I don't do it because I think it's kind of cheap to do to a little 10 year old kid who spent most of his time during the day playing and finally gets his pokemon to level 100 and goes to a tournament and looses to somebody with a gameshark who maxed out all of his pokemon stats with it.Only reason I have a shark is because its basically the same thing as doing the missingno code but it dosnt take as long,and I don't have the time to go threw a game over and over to just get one Tm. I do have stadium and I think using the dorio gameboy is basically like using a shark and the max stats codes,because well if you use it you can get a pokemon from level 15 to lvl 100 with max stats in two or three hours.
So the question is using the shark wrong to max out stats.I say no because I do train my pokemon to max stats and lvl 100,But if somebody else wants to shark its fine by me because juste because I dont dosnt mean other people can't.

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"You know ya blew up when women rush the stands and try to grab your hands like some screaming Usher fans"
Eminem


From: Doodie | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged


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