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How did Drake's (Lance) Dragonite on the show know Water Gun, Fly, Body Slam, Seismic Toss, Dragon Rage, Hyper Beam, and Ice Beam, and still lose?

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-cfalcon

quote:

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Originally posted by cfalcon:
In answer to your sig: because it didn't know Barrier

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Anyone else care to venture ideas?

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How did Drake's (Lance) Dragonite on the show know Water Gun, Fly, Body Slam, Seismic Toss, Dragon Rage, Hyper Beam, and Ice Beam, and still lose?

I got no problem with duping TM's. My Red cartridge is loaded. Every time I want to train up a new Pokémon, it goes there for moves and PP Ups and to Blue for drugs and maybe Rare Candies if I'm feeling lazy that day. But, everybody can and does do that and the worst consequence is NOT having to go through another game all the way just to get another Earthquake TM.

As far as the Shark goes, if you Shark your Pokémon up to their PERSONAL max stats, that's fine. I don't care if you don't want to train it or not, but as long as your 11/15/14/1/15 Porygon STAYS an 11/15/14/1/15 Porygon, you aren't really breaking any rules. You make one DV higher than it should be and you're cheating and shouldn't be allowed to play. If you want better DV's, go catch some.

Manipulating DV's for Hidden Power is wrong as well. Unless, of course, you don't make any values higher than they should be. If you want to take a few DV's DOWN to get your optimal HP, go right ahead. It's not like a 70 power anything is going to do much, unless it's a Fire or Water attack you can change the weather for. Giving your Pokémon a handicap for it is a fair tradeoff, even though it isn't entirely right.

My entire team is devoid of Shark and I'd like to keep it that way. A lot of them were lucky catches, so I didn't waste too much time at all on them. The only things I'd consider using a Shark for (on either my Red or Gold games, as they're the dummy test cartridges ^_^) are renaming my Mew and giving my Moltres Safeguard, which it would have had anyhow had I been paying attention. And I don't entirely feel right about that, either.
~Uiru wonders how hard it'd be to make some kind of game code that would protect it from cheating devices

PS. Here are the all natural DV's of my main teams.
Venusaur: 3/12/12/15/15 (very quick)
Sandslash: 13/9/15/10/15 (took a while)
Alakazam: 9/9/14/14/15 (third one caught, bay-bee!)
Starmie: 14/5/11/15/14 (took forever, but it was worth it)
Magmar: 5/14/13/14/13 (Magmar ALWAYS take forever)
Snorlax: 14/3/15/5/14 (used as Elemental... third one caught)

Moltres: 15/13/15/15/13 (fourth or fifth one caught)
Crobat: 11/13/12/13/15 (took a while)
Steelix: 13/13/15/10/15 (also took forever)
Heracross: 15/15/9/13/13 (FIRST one caught!)
Kingdra: 15/11/5/15/15 (took like ten minutes)
Porygon2: 11/15/14/1/15 (look familiar? Took like five tries)

(edit: Snorlax's AT DV should have been 3. ^_^; When its attacks are Ice Beam and Thunderbolt, you don't care what the AT is. ^_^)

Lowering some genes to raise others (HP) is the same level as modification as others.

Personally, some monsters I just pick stats for. Others I catch. If I was going to a serious tournament I wonder if I would make any considerations besides "I might get caught" for maxxing the team. Uiru, you have a valid opinion on this. I just think there's a lot of valid opinions, and in order to fully have fun with the game you need to communicate with your opponent ahead of time.

Tournament makes that hard.

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-cfalcon

i don't shark. i consider it cheating.

i also don't use anything i consider Legendary (5 L. Birds, 3 L. Quadrapeds, Mewtwo, Mew, Celebi). mainly because, according to the storyline, these pokemon are unique. one of a kind. most likely only one exists in the world.

given that, how can i feel right about using one in a tournament? it just never sat right with me. i always saw myself as a more, i guess, "common" pokemon trainer. pokemon that are more widely available in the world
(basically, all 240 other pokemon) were where i created my stable from.

before, i knew that everyone and their mom used a Mewtwo. i refused to use one. i went to a tournament and lost basically because i couldn't take down a Mewtwo. that upset me, but i moved on, for i love my pokemon and i knew they were good overall.

now, here, i see a lot of people like to shark. i'm pretty much against it. i won't stop other people from doing it, and i won't through a hissy fit over it, i just don't like it.

certain things, again, are acceptable. i dupe TMs, Rare Candies, Vitamins and Master Balls. i dupe them in the game, in Red i used Missingno., in Silver i use the box swap trick.

i dupe items because i simply don't have that much time on my hands to play through the game multiple times for TMs, to even afford the amount of Vitamins i need since i can't spend that much time battling the E4 over and over and over. i have other things to do.

but i love to battle. i've beaten the game and i've filled up the pokedex to max. i feel that i now have earned the right to dupe these items so that i may quickly train a competetive team and still have all my options available to me.

and for this, dupeing items, if u want to shark for that, hey, more power to you. i understand the need for that.

but this trend of sharking Hidden Powers and DVs, i think that's plain wrong.

i keep seeing posts with teams in it with sharked HP moves. i don't consider that a real moveset, and it provides nothing to me in the way of a real strategy or unique insight.

anyone with the money and internet access can shark up a HP-type move for their pokemon that they normally could never have had. that's not skill.

i dunno. it sort of upsets me because i wonder if the next time i go to a tournament if that's all i'll see.

but what can i do? well, nothing except enjoy the company of my beloved, natural pokes and have them fight their best.

in the end, i can think of only one type of person who i would allow to use a shark to alter the genes of their pokemon. if that person happened to be a Geneticist (sp?) in real life, as a professional occupation, and that man has the knowledge and skill to alter genes in real life, then yes, that man and that man only has the right to alter a pokemon's genes. =)

thanks, but that's just my opinion, i could be wrong.

-Cuban B

quote:

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Originally posted by Cuban B:
before, i knew that everyone and their mom used a Mewtwo. i refused to use one. i went to a tournament and lost basically because i couldn't take down a Mewtwo. that upset me, but i moved on, for i love my pokemon and i knew they were good overall.

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How did Drake's (Lance) Dragonite on the show know Water Gun, Fly, Body Slam, Seismic Toss, Dragon Rage, Hyper Beam, and Ice Beam, and still lose?
"because it didn't know Barrier :)"-cfalcon

Here's the gist of it:

Sharking within the rules (gene modification and such) doesn't make the game "broken". If the game is broken, it wasn't us (or Interact) that did it.

Which is scenerio is better:

(1) You go to tournament. One guy who honestly caught everything has max and near max stat monsters. More signifigantly, he has max speed in all the important monsters and the right genes for Hidden Power. He takes everyone down.

(2) Everyone has whatever they want. Battles are determined solely by the following factors:
a- Correct monster selection
b- Correct moveset selection
c- Proper in game handling
d- In battle luck

None of these are "Defying ludicrous odds to pull the most unbeatable monster out of my ass".

My general path has always been to try and catch the monster, not just shark it (with respect to genes). Usually I'll catch the silly thing at level 100 to compare it's stats. If it's something I want to keep for real, I'll shark it's level down and raise it (I enjoy raising them).

Generaly speaking, I'll probably be able to stick with that.

However: If I need a monster with Hidden Power, I won't even mess with it. When it comes down to it, I can't tolerate that. If I need a power 70 attack in a specific element I'm sure as hell getting it.

If there's some out with breeding (I haven't fully reviewed Meowth's work) then I'll do that instead, if I can.

It's a valid viewpoint not to do it in this way: I just draw a line between the single player and the multiplayer. If you don't, that's fine too.

Genes were bad enough. The new gene dependent stuff should never have been coded.

My opinion: I won't let Nintendo stand in the way of me and a tournament team. My policy is that you shouldn't either.

One of the reasons I like the shark is it puts you in control. Then you can control how much in or out of the lines you stand. It's your responsibility to communicate this to your opponents in general.

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-cfalcon

Oh, yeah... I make it a point to catch everything with Ultra Balls. Mewtwo was fun. ^_^ My Mewtwo is rigged right up- HP and SA Max, AT and SP -4, and DF -16 (who cares). With the good old Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Amnesia and Recover. Of course, I'd never use the thing. I haven't even trained it up yet. ^_^
~Uiru

"It's a poor workman who blames his tools." Max stats do not make you a god, nor should you have to sit up at night catching fifty thousand Grimer looking for the perfect one. (Heh, I'm one to talk... ^_^;; But I had an excuse. I was looking for a good Magmar.) If your Pokémon is fast, look for good Speed and acceptable other stats. They don't have to be perfect. If you're looking for, say, Shuckle, all you need is DF and SD- not exactly hard.

Sharking yourself max stats essentially says that you are so insecure and unsure of your own abilities that you have to scrape together every possible advantage you can find to overcome your opponent. And the stats won't have that much impact on your performance anyway! Any trainer who is better than you and trains his Pokémon right will still mop the floor with you, max stats or not. So why cheat?
~Uiru

I say no.

I say yes.

Catching is part of the game. Ash can't just go to Nurse Joy and ask her to scramble Pikachu's DNA.

I wish Sharks didn't exist and you couldn't clone. That'd make certain Pokemon very special.

I also wish you couldn't use the godly guys on your team, as it really doesn't make any sense.

At any rate, what's the difference between getting a lucky crit hit and catching a lucky one in a million Psyduck?

Sharks suck away the RPG element...altho I know you think that's a good thing...

quote:

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Originally posted by Cuban B:
but i love to battle. i've beaten the game and i've filled up the pokedex to max. i feel that i now have earned the right to dupe these items so that i may quickly train a competetive team and still have all my options available to me.

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How did Drake's (Lance) Dragonite on the show know Water Gun, Fly, Body Slam, Seismic Toss, Dragon Rage, Hyper Beam, and Ice Beam, and still lose?
"because it didn't know Barrier :)"-cfalcon

breeding can quickly produce four, five and six way maxes easily.

So,if I breed a Chansey with a Snorlax,I'll get a Chansey with max attack and defense?

Stats really aren't the end-all either- trainer skill

Oh,I definitely agree with you - in fact,just because you don't have max stats means you'll always lose battles,at least in the game. I never have time in the beginning to catch a max-stat Caterpie or whatnot,so I have to take what I get before I can dupe anything.

I also agree - I use the Missingno in Blue and Red to dupe TMs and other stuff. I hate the thought of having to play one of my carts six hundred times to get all the Body Slams I need for my team. I never sharked RBY.

However,I hate the dupe trick in G/S - pulling out the power is risky. If you don't do it JUST right,the game crashes and you'll lose everything. Poof.

That's why I use the Shark on G/S.

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* GLOOMBOY: The Vileplume Trainer *

quote:

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Originally posted by Jumpman16:

How did Drake's (Lance) Dragonite on the show know Water Gun, Fly, Body Slam, Seismic Toss, Dragon Rage, Hyper Beam, and Ice Beam, and still lose?

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Erm, Drake and Lance are two different people. Drake's original name is Yuuji. Lance's original name is Wataru.

I often feel that the shark spoils stuff. Geez, it lets you edit the RAM!

If Nintendo was hardcore about it, they could keep stuff out of the range of mortal gamers, surely. They don't really care. Usually they shouldn't: after all, what does it matter what you do with your gaming experience?

The problem is with link battles, naturally.

Because the shark exists, however, we should know how to use it.

I agree that it cheapens the RPG element. I only think that's a good thing for the actual battles...

...but I can see disagreeing.

The difference between the lucky crit hit and the lucky monster is not only one of odds but also of permanent returns: that lucky monster could theoretically make you well nigh undefeatable in a world without sharks (max speed Mewtwo in chromatic land).

Thankfully, Nintendo has cups to avoid the deity level monsters- but no one takes the very valid petit cup truly seriously. Even poké cup gets ignored (poké cup allows the legendary birds, but at least bans the MewX family).

Hopefully they'll have answers to this in the next Stadium.

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-cfalcon

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I purposely set out to catch him without using my Master Ball, which I did had with me at the time but wanted to have some fun with the game, a real challenge.

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i am against sharking stats. i didn't painstakingly raise my pikachu in my yellow and gold verion all the way to the point where the only thing that could take it down was blue's rhydon, and that was after the pikachu was weakened, just to have it get its butt kicked by some stupid cheater's stat pumped virtually invincible mewtwo!

now sharking items on the other hand..that i consider ok.

does anyone know the formula for EXP points?

quote:

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Originally posted by Crimzonite:
Erm, Drake and Lance are two different people. Drake's original name is Yuuji. Lance's original name is Wataru.

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How did Drake's (Lance) Dragonite know Water Gun, Fly, Body Slam, Seismic Toss, Dragon Rage, Hyper Beam, and Ice Beam, and still lose?

"Because it didn't know Barrier :)"
-cfalcon

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How did Drake's (Lance) Dragonite know Water Gun, Fly, Body Slam, Seismic Toss, Dragon Rage, Hyper Beam, and Ice Beam, and still lose?
"Because it didn't know Barrier :)"-cfalcon

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Originally posted by Uiru:
My rival Gremio's entire freaking team is at least four way max all around, and his entire team was breeded. (Except for his Raikou, which he caught with bastardly good stats *AND* a 70 Water Power... The child is SATAN, I tell you!)

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um you cant get a raikou with good stats and water hp
because to get water hp you need to have an average dv of 5 or soemthing like that
here go to this link
it is good info wheter it is theirs or not
pokemasters is a good resource but a bad ubb
http://www.pokemasters.com/gameboy/gold_silver/hidden_power.html

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-Mysterious Priest Velox

Actually, no. It isn't.

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-Mysterious Priest Velox

Where the hell did this figure come from?

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Originally posted by Jumpman16:
The thrill I got when I realized that he wouldn't break out of my Ultra Ball is unparalleled with any feeling that winning with sharked Pokémon could spark.

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YOU GOT IT!

"I Shark because I have a life." A classic, albeit PATHETIC, excuse.

One can easily train Pokémon and still maintain a life! You needn't play more than an hour a day of Pokémon to put together a good legal team. All you need is PATIENCE. Do any of you Stat-Sharking twits know what PATIENCE is?

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Originally posted by Velox:
Do any of you Stat-Sharking twits know what PATIENCE is?

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Goddish forbid you should have some motherfucking ethics.

Are you really that pathetic that you need a crutch like a Gameshark to win?

As for catching/raising, that's what Dodrio mode on Stadium was invented for .

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-Dragonite21

You see my point.

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-cfalcon

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Originally posted by Velox:
By that logic, you condone cheating in any major sporting event, provided you don't get caught.

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I do not own a copy of Stadium. I could, applying your logic, accuse anyone who has ever used Dodrio Mode to help capture or train Pokémon of having an unfair advantage, and therefore being a cheater.

You can't make that distinction by just saying "games."

>>There is nothing fun about spending weeks finding and training Pokémon with good DVs to Level 100.

My experiences dictate that that's a gross exaggeration, but whatever...

>>If we're talking about banning Sharks in tournies, I can see your point,

Nice to know we agree on something.

>>but otherwise, you're merely being overzealous.

>>I do not own a copy of Stadium. I could, applying your logic, accuse anyone who has ever used Dodrio Mode to help capture or train Pokémon of having an unfair advantage, and therefore being a cheater.

YOUR logic (which you are trying to pass off as MY logic) is flawed. The difference between a Shark and Stadium is that Stadium is supplied by Nintendo itself. They WANT you to use it (see, they make money that way). It is not their intent, however, for you to use a Gameshark. If Nintendo wanted you to get perfect-stat Pokémon at will, they THEMSELVES would have supplied you with a way to do it.

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Originally posted by Velox:
You can't make that distinction by just saying "games."

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Granted. Let's say "non-tournament Pokémon games".

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The difference between a Shark and Stadium is that Stadium is supplied by Nintendo itself. They WANT you to use it (see, they make money that way). It is not their intent, however, for you to use a Gameshark.

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Way to completely miss the point.

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Originally posted by Velox:
Way to completely miss the point.

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However, it is very valid to say that Nintendo "does not want" you using the Shark. This doesn't mean you should use the shark, simply that you should view it's use as potentially in violation of the rules. Clearly, you aren't meant to have a 1023 stat something. The more questionably behavior is when you modify monsters to get stuff you could have gotten in game in less time.

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-cfalcon

I spent a long, long, long time breeding Ditto with a Primeape and Eevee. My best Mankey was a 7/12/15/15/11 and for Eevee a 15/15/15/15/11. You dunno how tempting it was for me to shark my Mankey's Attack to a 13, or my Eevee's Speed to a 13, but I realized, if I sharked any of my DV's, all of those long hours of breeding would've been for nothing. It would've been the same as sharking the first PKMN caught.

I used to be a sharker. Then, my Silver crashed. My sharked Max stat team was gone. However, I didn't lose any sleep over it. That team was all sharked, acquired in a matter of minutes and were easily replaced. My Eevee and Mankey can't be replaced. If my game crashed again, I would be terribly upset, because they were legit, strong PKMN, that I got the right way. Even if I did have a 15/15/15/15/11 before, sharking one to replace it would still bug me.

I guess a lot of this goes down to your morals and what you feel as right or wrong. The only sharking I'm up for is speeding up egg hatching, sharking max stat exp(I still feel a bit guilty about this), infecting PKMN with PokéRus(if I don't want to shark max stat exp), and duping items.

Hallelujah, brother!