The Azure Heights Forum


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Azure Heights Forum   » Main Campus   » Sakaki Tower   » The trouble with max stats

UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: The trouble with max stats
cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19

Member Rated:
posted 09-04-2000 02:40 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Some people have recently been given problems for using max stat monsters in tournaments, being accused of sharking.

This accusation is not entirely without merit: after all, it is damn near impossible to have a natural team of max stat monsters with no shark as an aide.

As I have said numerous times, the odds of getting a max stat monster are 1/65536. This means that it happens: I think there have been a couple documented max stats Mewtwos, and probably a few others.

Having all max stats on six monsters is less likely than going to a role playing convention with a character that has all 18s (max human stat in D&D).

Let's say it takes 30 seconds to get in a fight, capture a monster, and check his stats. Then, on *average*, it will take 32768 minutes = 546 hours = 22.76 DAYS of CONSTANT PLAYTIME to catch a single max stat monster.

Even at that it isn't guaranteed.

Making that claim for all six monsters is laughable, honestly.

It may be theoretically doable, but walking in with 6 max stat monsters to a tournament is basically saying "I spent around 4000 hours playing pokémon, devoted solely to catching these six monsters. I ignored food, sleep, sex, and the use of the bathroom for this time".

If that were your claim, that might actually be ok. After all, just doing that shouldn't mean that you have the use of a powerful monster, right?

The only problem is this: unlike max stat EXP, max stats aren't guaranteed. You aren't just claiming to save time.

Is this bad? I would fight people who have max stats. However, if you are going to a Nintendo sanctioned tournament that does not allow the use of Gameshark, having max stats is effective acknowledgement of sharking.

Basically, if it smells like a shark, it probably is.


Now it's up to each person what they do in personal duels, and it's also up to you whether you want to take risks in tournaments. You all know how to get max stats (if you don't, go to the main page and poke around). For those who weren't listening before, here is how to get high stats.

By using the max stats codes, you are rolling dice for yourself and claiming they all come up high. It isn't at all unreasonable to demand max speed, special and hitpoints: the odds of those three being max are only 1/1024 (2^[4+4+2]). I've seen that before, it isn't all all unreasonable.


Here are the familiar max stats codes:

01FF86D1 <-ATT DEF R/B
01FF87D1 <-SPD SPC R/B

Here are the more generic codes:
01 WX 86D1
01 YZ 87D1

Remember that all numbers are in hex. That means they go:

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F

This isn't particular to the gameshark or anything: this is how machines work.

Those sixteen values are the values taken by all five genes.

Note that adding 2 to 8 yields A, so if I say "if this gene has an odd value, add 4 to your hit point gene", and it was previously 8, then it would be C.


W is your attack gene. Attack yields the following things:

1) Damage done by physical attacks is directly proportional to your attack score. A monster that uses physical attacks should have a high attack gene, preferably max. Like all genes, this is determined when you either meet or catch the monster (consult an emulator with savestate if you really care).
2) Damage done to yourself during confusion is directly related to this gene. Monsters that have no physical attacks and won't be struggling should consider getting this gene as low as possible.
3) The hitpoint gene is based slightly on all of the other genes, but more on attack than the others. If you know binary, then the least signifigant bit of the attack gene becomes the most signifigant bit of the hit point gene. In any case, having this number be odd increases your hit point gene by 8 (if you are taking these in order, it started at 0, and is now 0 or 8). This is because the hit point gene is composed of the least signifigant bits of the Attack, Defense, Speed, and Special genes (in that order). Having the least signifigant bit set makes a number odd.

X is your defense gene. Defense yields the following things:

1) Physical damage done to you is inversely proportional to your defense score. It is extremely important to monsters with low base defense values, like Chansey, as it's proportional effect is much greater.
2) Damage done to yourself during confusion is also reduced by a high defense.
3) Having an odd number as your defense gene yields a increase to your hit point gene of 4. This means that it is either 8, 4, C, or 0 by now.

Y is your Speed gene. Speed has the following effects:

1) Monsters with bigger speed go first. This is a very big deal, as if you will both fall in two rounds you will still be rather healthy if you went first. This has the most benefit when the opponent is weak to you, or your moves are extremely strong, or status modifiers are involved.

Speed is very important for monsters that will meet monsters of similar speed. If your monster is almost guaranteed to go last, it isn't as important.

2) The functioning of "1 Hit KO" moves is dependent on speed in the Gameboy version.

3) Having an odd value for the speed gene
increases your hit point gene by 2. This means that, if you are going in order, you hit point gene is either 2, 4, 6, 8, A, C, or E by now.

Z is your special gene. Special has the following effects:

1) Damage done by your special attacks is directly proportional to your special score.

2) Damage done to you by special attacks is inversely proportional to your special score.

Special is important to any monsters that will be using special attacks, and also any that will be hit by them (most of them ). Remember that, unlike speed, having a point of special above or below an opponent isn't as big of a deal, as the damage formula uses random numbers, so a series of bad or good rolls is more signifigant than having a point or two of special (this is also true for attack and defense).

3) Having an odd value for a special gene increased your hit point gene by 1. This means that, if you are going in order, your hit point gene is now determined to be one of the sixteen possible hex values (0 to F)

Please keep in mind that this is mostly a condensation of previous articles and posts: much of it has been on Azure forever.

For 1 hit KO:
http://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/azure/attacks/comp/ko.htm

For general combat info:
http://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/azure/compendium/combat.htm

and this covers that stats in more detail than I have:
http://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/azure/compendium/catching.htm


What this is about is this: apparently, some people have gotten busted in tournaments, and having max stats on their monsters only makes things worse. If you suspect this will happen to you, please shark yourself new, mortal stats.

An example:

Let's say you want a Jolteon. You want his speed max definitely, and his hitpoints max or close. Given your moveset, you don't care about attack. You decide on this moveset:

Attack= 3
Defense= 7
Speed= F
Special= C

From the above, 8*1 + 4*1 + 2*1 + 1*0 = E
Hit point= E

This monster is a strong fighter! Will he lose to a max stat Jolteon? Maybe, maybe not. Having max speed (a one in sixteen chance) is the big thing, and I assure you that all monsters with a speed this high should try to max out. The few points shy in other areas will, by and large, not make a difference...

Except that you won't get disqualified!

Please post opinions, responses, and corrections. Input welcome, as always.

-cfalcon

[This message has been edited by cfalcon (edited 09-04-2000).]


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19

Member Rated:
posted 09-04-2000 11:38 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sorry, I meant to type "if it is odd". I've rehashed that part a bit...

Err... I mean, what are you talking about? You must have misquoted me. As you can see from above, I didn't make that mistake!

------------------
-cfalcon

"Someone is secretly in live with you"
-Fortune Cookie Wisdom


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
White Cat
Nobody knows why I'm an admin.
Member # 42

Member Rated:
posted 09-05-2000 02:34 AM      Profile for White Cat   Author's Homepage   Email White Cat      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, that's a good thing to do. Sharking all max stats is excessive, conspicuous, and often unnecessary. If you're going to shark, put the stats that are actually important at high/max, and leave the others at moderate/low.

Also, remember that with the exception of Speed, genes are more important on lower stats than they are on higher ones. For example, a Chansey with maximum Defense and minimum HP will take about 25% less damage from physical attacks than one with min Defense and max HP.

------------------
"Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you."
-- Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri exit message


From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
The Great Dreamer
Farting Nudist
Member # 117

Member Rated:
posted 09-05-2000 03:02 AM      Profile for The Great Dreamer   Email The Great Dreamer   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't know if this matters but with pokémon that use more Special attacks than anything, you want to give them the lowest Attack possible so you do not suffer as much from Confusion...anyway, that's what I did with my gengar...


...my 2 cents, keep the change...

------------------
"The Great Dreamer Has Written..."
-Luis The Bard, The Great Dreamer-


From: Las Vegas were everyone uses Mimic & Metronome! | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
JHExeggutor
Farting Nudist
Member # 424

Member Rated:
posted 09-05-2000 09:11 AM      Profile for JHExeggutor   Author's Homepage   Email JHExeggutor   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Good point, but what'll this instigate? This means that people will have the simple task of, when depositing pokemon with the max genes code on, simply lowering these values:
01FF86D1
01FF87D1

to these values:
01FD86D1
01FD87D1

It looks real enough, and no-one could tell the difference.

------------------
Yes, it is JHExeggutor 2k Platinum from the UPN. Happy?
HaVe A nIcE dAy!


Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19

Member Rated:
posted 09-05-2000 03:36 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, that yields genes of 15, 13, 15, 13, 15... so some might consider that sketchy, too.

I don't even think having a max stats monster is that indicitive of sharking... having a whole team full of them might be considered that, though.

------------------
-cfalcon

"Someone is secretly in live with you"
-Fortune Cookie Wisdom


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
ZZTRaider
Farting Nudist
Member # 86

Member Rated:
posted 09-05-2000 05:28 PM      Profile for ZZTRaider   Email ZZTRaider   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, it may mean a shark... or maybe just someone with entirely too much time on their hands.

Personally, I'm gonna go for pokemon like:
Snorlax (IBeam, DE, Rest, Amnesia) with Genes as: F attack / F Special / F Defense / Any odd number Speed
makes sense for as 'Lax with that set. BTW, cfalcon, how do I see what the chances are with normally catching a pokemon with certain gehes, and maybe one or more stats that just need to be odd?

------------------
ZZTRaider | zztraider@yahoo.com | AIM: ZZTRaider | ICQ: 15030114
* ZZTRaider wonders how Mew survived Labor with Mewtwo
I use Mewtwo, and I don't care if you think he's cheap or not. He'll always be on my team (except in situations where Mewtwo is banned for some stupid reason), including on G/S, not for stats, but because I like him as a pokemon. So there!

[This message has been edited by ZZTRaider (edited 09-05-2000).]


From: A Long, Long Time Ago; In A Galaxy Far, Far Away | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19

Member Rated:
posted 09-07-2000 05:00 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The odds work like this: figure out how many bits need to be 1, then take 2 to that power.

There are sixteen bits. Let's say you want max speed and special.

Speed is four bits, and special is another four bits. This means that you need 8 bits to be 1.

XXXX XXXX 1111 1111

2 to the 8th = 256. Odds are 1/256

Now lets go for max speed and hit points. Each of these are four bits long, but they cross:

XXX1 XXX1 1111 XXX1

Well, that's 7 bits, 2 to the 7th = 128. Odds are 1/128, so this happens twice as often.

------------------
-cfalcon

"Someone is secretly in live with you"
-Fortune Cookie Wisdom


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Enter Your Name Here
Farting Nudist
Member # 57

Member Rated:
posted 09-07-2000 07:11 PM      Profile for Enter Your Name Here   Email Enter Your Name Here   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I know nothing about hexadecimals and stuff, so if you were to catch a pokemon with the genes stated in cfalcon's first post, what would the actual DVs be?

------------------
--EYNH
"The lone person who has cloned so much his cart cloned itself....is not me."

Sora's mom: [Biyomon]...does Sora....hate me?
Biyomon: Of course!
--Excerpt from "Things Digimon Characters Would Never Say"


Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Elian
Farting Nudist
Member # 486

Member Rated:
posted 09-07-2000 08:53 PM      Profile for Elian   Author's Homepage   Email Elian   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
but what if you took the time to get your pokemon boxed up to the max, i did, and it took a fuckin long time too, and if i get any shit cause of it then im gonna be pissed

------------------
damn hackers deleting my shit!
-StaRMiE121


From: Plymouth, MI | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19

Member Rated:
posted 09-08-2000 02:22 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No one has a problem with the box trick, which yields 63 points in each stat higher than it would otherwise be. That is "easy" to do- just box (or shark) the monster up to max stat EXP. There is no uncertainty, and no one is having any problems.

A max stat monster doesn't just have max stat EXP: it also has max genes. A monster with max genes in an attribute has 30 more points than one with min genes in an attribute. This is *extremely* important with speed, usually.

If you caught your monsters normally and boxed them, no one will accuse you of sharking (at least, I hope not: if you use max stat codes to max your monster's genes you might catch slack, however).

Quick hex reference:

0 = 0
1 = 1
2 = 2
3 = 3
4 = 4
5 = 5
6 = 6
7 = 7
8 = 8
9 = 9
A = 10
B = 11
C = 12
D = 13
E = 14
F = 15

------------------
-cfalcon

"Someone is secretly in live with you"
-Fortune Cookie Wisdom


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Quetzalcoatl
Farting Nudist
Member # 411

Member Rated:
posted 09-09-2000 01:20 PM      Profile for Quetzalcoatl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cfalcon explained the formula for the Hitpoint gene in this old post (the formula is a bit clearer and staright to the point): http://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/azure/forum/tuff/Forum4/HTML/000166.html

quote:
I don't know if this matters but with pokémon that use more Special attacks than anything, you want to give them the lowest Attack possible so you do not suffer as much from Confusion...anyway, that's what I did with my gengar...

Lame as it is, I put 1 in the Attack gene if my pokemon doesn't use Physical attacks.
8 is quite a big chunk of HP!

------------------
"A bull is heavy, violent, abusive, and agressive with four legs and sharp teeth-whereas a bullfighter is only a small greasy Spaniard."
-Narrator of "Probe"
"Well, it'de certainly make chartered accountancy a much more interesting job."-Government spokeman, on a proposal to tax sex


From: WTF Capital of U.S of A | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
magmar5
Farting Nudist
Member # 592

Member Rated:
posted 09-09-2000 04:44 PM      Profile for magmar5   Author's Homepage   Email magmar5   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
yes, but what about my 5-way maxed Ditto. I don't have a gameshark. but I have 8 other pokemon five way maxed. but then A gain, I have 47 pokemon in my dex, but 249:37 in my game.

------------------
-magmar5

"I can play chess, KING ME!" -Me

PokeMasterVolcano


From: new jersey | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Elian
Farting Nudist
Member # 486

Member Rated:
posted 09-09-2000 05:11 PM      Profile for Elian   Author's Homepage   Email Elian   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
so are you sayin that if someone sharked the pokemon up to max stats, then they would have higher stats... or no? just wonderin... cause i dont think that i quite understood you

------------------
damn hackers deleting my shit!
-StaRMiE121


From: Plymouth, MI | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19

Member Rated:
posted 09-10-2000 03:10 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm not sure if it just comes down to that, Fanha, but that is certainly a valid viewpoint- one I'm not certain I don't share. If max stats can spread even easier in Gold and Silver (I'd like you to email me that, by the way: cfalcon@azureheights.com), then that should make the difference in the future.

I'm sad that people can be DQ'd for that...

A couple points over max stats did you say? I might even catch that. I'd definitely catch it on speed or hit points in Stadium with a well known monster like Mewtwo...

I think Stadium clears illegal status mods anyhow.

Those actually ARE cheating, no doubt about it. At least the game is meant to handle max stats...

Or maybe that's what you meant. I could have misread it.

------------------
-cfalcon

"Someone is secretly in live with you"
-Fortune Cookie Wisdom


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
White Cat
Nobody knows why I'm an admin.
Member # 42

Member Rated:
posted 09-10-2000 03:55 AM      Profile for White Cat   Author's Homepage   Email White Cat      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, due to something in G/S Givera and I have agreed not to reveal on a forum lest Nintendo spy and fix

It's highly unlikely that they read Net forums, since they didn't even know how to do the box trick right...

------------------
"Please let go of my cape."
-- Batman


From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Elian
Farting Nudist
Member # 486

Member Rated:
posted 09-10-2000 12:50 PM      Profile for Elian   Author's Homepage   Email Elian   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
im just gonna shorten this up.... is there any way to tell if you boxed your pokemon or sharked them?? and if you did shark the max stats on them would they have a little higher stats then the boxed ones?

------------------
damn hackers deleting my shit!
-StaRMiE121

[This message has been edited by StaRMiE121 (edited 09-10-2000).]


From: Plymouth, MI | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Huor
Farting Nudist
Member # 709

Member Rated:
posted 09-10-2000 03:20 PM      Profile for Huor     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You know, Starmie121, there is a site here that explains all of this.

------------------


From: Stittsville, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
mewtwo's fortress
Farting Nudist
Member # 591

Member Rated:
posted 09-20-2000 10:35 PM      Profile for mewtwo's fortress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
originally posted by fanha

Well, due to something in G/S Givera and I have agreed not to reveal on a forum lest
Nintendo spy and fix, a max-stats full team may be very possible on G/S. There is a
way to transfer any Pokemon's genes to any pre-evolved Pokemon (I'm not sure what
happens if they're fully evolved). This is the same way Shiny Pokemon are cloned; by
copying the genes. In this way, a platyer only needs ONE max stat Pokemon to get as
many as he wants.

Also, when you're talking about high-level players, there's really no way to judge
Gameshark or not. It's a horrible paradox between getting max stats and getting
called; if you train the old-fashioned way and get the whole team, you'd still probably
get called for Sharking, which would be rather insulting...

The only thing I could see doing is just Sharking them on another game and trading
them over as to leave no signs. If I went to a national tourney, I wouldn't take any
risks of anything; I'd put my 6 Pokemon (maybe a few more) on my Yellow cart, take it
to a tourney, and that would be it.

Also, keep in mind, if someone has a group of say, 5 friends, who all help try to get
maxed Pokemon a couple hours a day, it's doable. then they can each all clone each
other them and kick ass in tourneys. And the fact is, incredible things don't just happen
in the movies. It wouldn't be surprising to me if something could get a team of 6
maxed Pokemon. Hell, once Crystal comes out, we can have 20 or 30 people on our
forums all working at once, if that's what it would take.

The question is whether it's worth it. the answer is no. NO MATTER HOW YOU DO IT, it's
EXACTLY the same end result. When you walk in that door to the tourney with your
millions-of-hours-taken maxed Pokemon, you're going to be NO different than if you
had Sharked them, besides the fact you might have witnesses.

Also, the other fact is that I don't think Nintendo is even sure exactly what the max
stats are (at least the judges). I'm sure an extra 2 pr 6 points over a non-maxed one
won't look suspicious. I think the only reason Philo got DQed on the UK tourney is
because someone ratted him.

In conclusion, GameShark is probably, even with DQ possibilities considered, your best
bet for winning. Playing down a few notchs wouldn't prove much. To the trained eye,
max stats are obvious, but to a judge's eye, they may be considered nothing more
than higher. What can the judge do? DQ you on the spot for us of GameShark? If you
complained to the organizers and held your case, I'm sure the judge wouldn't ever do
that again. The fact is, since they can't prove you didn't do it through hard work, they
have no case besides circumstancial evidence. Otherwise, not only are the GSers
screwed, but the players who take their time are too, which means no matter how you
do it you're equally screwed over.

Of course, I, and I hope the rest of you, don't intend to repeat Philbo's case. I don't
plan on talking about how I train my Pokemon, and if/how I use GameShark, so all of
their evidence will be circumstancial should they try to DQ me. If someone tried to DQ
me because they said I posted that I use a GameShark, I could confidently say they're
a lier. Someone who supports GameSharks is no more a GameShark user than
someone who supports abortion is someone who has had an abortion.

Anyhow, this is WAY too long. In the end, it comes down to one logical conclusion:

If you have a Shark, use it to get max stats.


yeah I agree

------------------
From Jackdaws sig:
Homer: [on phone] Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night.
They just plain sucked! I've seen teams suck before, but
they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.
Marge: Homer! Watch your mouth!
Homer: Aw, I gotta go. My damn weiner kids are listening.


From: the cold, dark depths of mewtwo's fortess | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Velox
Farting Nudist
Member # 913

Member Rated:
posted 09-28-2000 09:17 PM      Profile for Velox   Author's Homepage   Email Velox   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sharking Pokémon for max stats is like taking growth hormones in the Olympics. The judges may not be able to prove anything, but that doesn't make it any less of a cheat-job. Not everyone has access to a Shark, folks. And until Nintendo starts handing out Sharks to tourney-goers and explaining to them how to max stats out, Sharking for stats is manipulating normally insane odds, and thus rat-bastardry. You deserve to get DQed.

Second, if you legally have a team of six max-stat Pokémon, then frankly, I still wouldn't weep for you if you got DQed. It could be the best thing to happen to you. You'd probably realize the staggering amount of time you spent hunting Pokémon and start to focus more on getting a life (or at least settling for less suspicious Pokémon).

You'd be amazed how well you can get by settling for Pokémon that have just two or three max stats. As long as one of them's Speed, you can take the Sharkers on. And there's little in Pokémon that's more satisfying than whooping the ass of a cheating rat bastard.

-Velox, disgusted by Sharkers in general.

------------------


From: Philadelphia, PA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19

Member Rated:
posted 09-29-2000 01:20 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dude, chill out.

Using growth hormones and steroid in the Olympics is banned because:

(1) It's dangerous to the athletes: you wouldn't be able to compete and win unless you did a regiment of liver destroying drugs.

(2) It lets you do things beyond "normal" human performance.

A surgeon can't operate on a person's heart without drugs, but there are inherent disadvantages to using them casually.

That actually is cheating.

Sharking max stats? That doesn't even get you something outside of the rules, just outside of the realm of likely things.

Disgusted? Calm down.

Not everyone has a shark. True. I got mine for 15 bucks, so it isn't a big deal, but the point you are making (it's external to the game) is valid. The point is that the things being done that we are discussing are valid within the rules of the game.

------------------
-cfalcon

Infinite copies of this message also available through type BIRD.


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
10,000Lb.Snorlax
loves long time.
Member # 13

Member Rated:
posted 10-01-2000 08:59 PM      Profile for 10,000Lb.Snorlax   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Pokémon ethics: a growing career field. Get a Degree from AzureHeights.com

------------------
There won't be a sequel to Gold/Silver, will there?


From: Denver | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged


All times are ET (US)  
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Azure Heights Pokémon Laboratory

© 2000-2016, Maximum Penetration Industries.

Karpe Diem


The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author(s). The contents and links have not been reviewed or approved by the University of Miami.