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Author Topic: Boys have a 1, girls have a 0.
cfalcon
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posted 02-29-2000 03:30 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but...

In Metallic Pokemon, the EXP structure is the same as it is in Chromatic, just in a different location in memory (shark codes at end). This means that, once again, there is apparently a 16 bit value from which your monsters "genes" are derived. In addition to describing what you five deter values are, however, it also now yields your pokemon's gender (or appearance in #201's case).

The format is:
1st byte: ABCD EFGH
2nd byte: IJKL MNOP

where each letter represents a single bit.

The deter values for the stats are easy:
Attack: ABCD
Defense: EFGH
Speed: IJKL
Special: MNOP

Hit points are odd, using LSBs of other stats:
Max HP: DHLP

*IF* you are using a engendered pokemon, your sex is denoted by the first bit of attack (A), with set = male, and unset = female (If you guys wanna check this statement out, please do: I couldn't find an instance where sex wasn't wholly decided by this bit).

This means that if your pokemon's attack deter value is 0-7 it is female, and 8-15 it is male.

This also has the effect that if you trade a monster to red/blue and back, it will once again be recognized as the same sex as it was before.

Keep in mind that if everyone uses the slightly stronger, male pokemon, then whoever brings in a female with Melo Melo will be sitting pretty.


Also note that there is no distinction between Special Attack and Special Defense in either stat EXP or deter values. This means that the only difference in Special attack and defense comes from your pokemons base stats (the one's specific to it's species).

Gameshark codes for Japanese Gold/Silver, 1st position pokemon:

EXP high: 01??F8D4
EXP mid: 01??F9D9
EXP low: 01??FAD9

Stat EXP: Value for max
MHP high: 01??FBD9 FE
MHP low: 01??FCD9 01
ATT high: 01??FDD9 FE
ATT low: 01??FED9 01
DEF high: 01??FFD9 FE
DEF low: 01??00DA 01
SPC high: 01??01DA FE
SPC low: 01??02DA 01
SPD high: 01??03DA FE
SPD low: 01??04DA 01

Genes Max(M) Max(F)
Low Gene: 01??05DA FF 7F
High Gene:01??06DA FF FF


Have fun... responses appreciated, thanks...
-cfalcon

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From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Porcupine
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posted 02-29-2000 07:41 PM      Profile for Porcupine   Email Porcupine   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What is this :P supposed to mean anyway? Hehe.

Wow cfalcon, even more amazing codes!

I am surprised (and disbelieving) that what you say is true about Male/Female pokemon, but it could be. Most of my pokemon are male and I try to catch strong ones...

I'd like you to check that again, but I know you won't unless I give you more incentive. So how about this, I know that the Shiny Pokemon code is also likely stored in a similar manner in a similar memory location right next to the Gender code. I saw the code on Pokemon Forever, but it was weird and mentioned that the guy doesn't know exactly what is going on with it. The memory location of his shinyness code is 06DA and his gender code 05DA.

What do shiny pokemon do anyway? Maybe nothing, but people have noted that Shiny pokemon tend to have high stats, which would make sense if shinyness is imbedded in the wild stat values like gender is. For the record I have Red Gyarados and Green Tentacruel...what about you guys? Also, Red Gyrados's stats are preset when u capture him, not randomly determined. I don't know about my Green Tentacruel because he was wild and I only saw one, and I caught him of course.

What does Mellow Mellow do? I see it but never used it.

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From: Honolulu, HI, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 02-29-2000 08:36 PM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've never played (or even seen) G/S, but from other discussions I've read, I've theorized that shininess is not really its own trait, it's a reflection of the stats themselves.

Are there any really high stats Pokemon that aren't shiny?

Keep in mind, that I really have no idea what I'm talking about...

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KOFFING!
Azure Heights Pokémon Laboratory


From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Porcupine
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posted 03-01-2000 03:16 PM      Profile for Porcupine   Email Porcupine   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, my own blue Gyrados has higher stats than red Gyarados. Overall. The special red one is better in some categories. And I have a green Tentacruel but I haven't caught any other tentacruel to compare him to yet.

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From: Honolulu, HI, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
NeoSyrex
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posted 03-02-2000 10:09 PM      Profile for NeoSyrex   Author's Homepage   Email NeoSyrex   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I got a blue Unknown ^_^
I compared it to Dread's, but his had higher stats and wasn't shiny...

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From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Porcupine
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posted 03-03-2000 03:22 PM      Profile for Porcupine   Email Porcupine   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What is a blue Unknown?

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From: Honolulu, HI, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
NeoSyrex
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posted 03-03-2000 03:42 PM      Profile for NeoSyrex   Author's Homepage   Email NeoSyrex   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ya know, the guys in the temple near all the puzzles that are shaped like the letters of the alphabet.

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From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Porcupine
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posted 03-03-2000 08:14 PM      Profile for Porcupine   Email Porcupine   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cool. Ya those guys.

What level was your shiny Annon when u caught it? My Tentacruel was level 20, and Red Gyarados is level 30. I'm wondering if when u catch wild shiny pokemon will they have special predetermined stats and levels.

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From: Honolulu, HI, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 03-04-2000 08:25 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ok, here's the info that I have on the shiny attribute:

If the gene word is set to EA AA, you will have a shiny monster.

I'm not certain if there are different genes that will also result in shiny monsters or not. To make the first monster on your list (G/S, tested with Silver) shiny, use:

01EA05DA
01AA06DA

These are the stats my red Gyrados has. Note that these stats yield the following deter values:

MHP: 00/15
ATT: 14/15
DEF: 10/15
SPD: 10/15
SPC: 10/15


I have to go (I'm on a borrowed computer, as mine is in G'ville), but if anyone would post the stats of their other shiny monsters we could find if other stat combination are possible. Please post levels, and whether yours have experience or not (no stat exp preferable). These codes made every monster I tested shiny, including burakki, beirifu, mew, gengar, etc.

Have fun, I'll type more when I have longer access to a computer

-cfalcon

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From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Porcupine
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posted 03-08-2000 06:23 PM      Profile for Porcupine   Email Porcupine   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here are the stats of my Level 20 Female Green Shiny Tentacruel:

HP 62, Attack 33, Defense 35 SpecialAttack 41, SpecialDefense 57, Speed 49

It is completely wild and untrained, unused since being caught.

My red Gyarados has stats exactly like yours, but whether this is because shiny pokemon all have set stats, or because he was not normally caught I don't know.

Necrosaro's Pokemon Page lists Tentacruel's base stats at level 50 for Gold/Silver as:

HP 80, Attack 70, Defense 65, SpecialAttack 80, SpecialDefense 120, Speed 100

cfalcon, how did you determine your "deter values" for your Red Gyarados? Did you read the data via Gameshark or calculate it with formulas? I'm not sure how to calculate my Tentacruel's deter values exactly because I don't know how to round properly.

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From: Honolulu, HI, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Porcupine
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posted 03-08-2000 06:35 PM      Profile for Porcupine   Email Porcupine   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is there any way to use no$gmb or another gameboy emulator to read out Gameshark codes rather than put them in? In other words I'd like to see what's already in the memory location not change it.

I'm thinking of using Zero's codes to build my own collection of stolen pokemon from Gym Leaders and CPU Trainers and check out their stat EXP and "deter values."

What does deter values stand for? I don't get it.

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From: Honolulu, HI, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Rysto
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posted 03-08-2000 06:41 PM      Profile for Rysto   Email Rysto   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
When you come across a wild Pokemon, the game comes up with a number between 0-15(deter value) for each stat(HP, Att, Def, Spd, Spc) If it has a 15 in a stat, it can get the maximum amount possible for that stat for that species.

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From: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Porcupine
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posted 03-08-2000 07:04 PM      Profile for Porcupine   Email Porcupine   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I know what the deter values are...I just wonder who came up with the exact terminology and what does the terminology mean?

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From: Honolulu, HI, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 03-09-2000 01:55 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

Thanks for the absurdly rare Tentacruel stats, Porcupine! With that, we can get female shiny monsters...

Ok, with the new Tentacruel stats, we get:

(Wild is PERFECT, ideal in fact)
(actua) (base) (base) Likely Deter
L20 L50 ---> L20

HP 62 80 62 0-2
At 33 70 33 0-2
Df 35 65 31 10-12
SA 41 80 37 10-12 -|
SD 57 120 53 10-12 -|-- same
Sp 49 100 45 10-12

Remember the formulas:

wild base HP:
(level*(base HP +deter+50)/50)+10
wild base ability:
(level*(base stat +deter)/50)+5

With deter ranging from 0 to 15. In each case, I just figure on a deter of 0, then converted the L50 to L20. Then I looked at how much each one differed from the L20 you posted. It differed either by 0 or 4, in all cases. Note that a deter of 10 makes a difference of 4 at level 20 (look at formula). So would 11 and 12, and 1 and 2 would be the same as zero. So why do I guess 0/0/10/10/10? Well, for one, it is both possible and likely: the gyrados was 0/14/10/10/10, even numbers selected to give Red Gyrados minimum HP, with big attack.

Now to test: (sound as shark boots...)

attack/defense=0/10=0A
speed/special=10/10=AA

010A05DA
01AA06DA

should change the first monster into some green shiny female thing.

Nope. Female (we knew that, low attack).

That attack looks suspicious at 0. If it were 1, hp would be too high. It couldn't be 3 or more, or the values wouldn't correlate. Lets try 2:

012A05DA
01AA06DA

This code set works, giving me the "sparkle" by the sex indicator. So I save and move it over to color, (can't shark on color, as many of you know) after performing this operation on a few monsters so I have a decent sample size...

And am greeted by the same scene that I had when I did the other code, except that now all of the subjects are female.

So we have one shiny code for each sex so far. Each one produces above average (but far from exceptional) monsters, and both are the same colors (red shiny female gyrados with second code set).

Male shiny codes:
01EA05DA
01AA06DA

Female shiny codes:
012A05DA
01AA05DA

Though some work could have been saved if the Tentacruel had been leveled with the shark up to 100 and its stats recorded (via EXP byte, such as 010FFAD9, 0142FBD9, 0140FCD9, then in and out of a box, this assumes Tentacruel maxes at 1000000 EXP, if 1250000, then use 0113FAD9, 0112FBD9, 01D0FCD9).

What do I do? I max the EXP byte (assuming 1250000 chart), max stat EXP (I'm sure I posted this for silver), then get them in one fight to reset EXP to normal levels... or maybe metallic does this, I forget. Either way, Once I have maxed monsters, the formulas tell you exactly what you want, otherwise you need to infer some.


Keep in mind, there may be even more shiny monsters in the game. If you find any besides the red gyrados (a constant one), please post their level, sex, and stats before using them in fights (or just get the deter values yourself and post them). There is hopefully a greater than one in 32768 chance of pulling up a shiny monster...


Well, my spring break is mostly over, gotta get back to work... But for now I'll be reading messages and responding, hopefully...

Thank you very much again, Porcupine.

-cfalcon

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From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 03-24-2000 03:55 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Meowth, the Metallic (Gold/Silver) stat EXP codes are here... (above)

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From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Meowth346
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posted 03-25-2000 05:16 AM      Profile for Meowth346   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm quite impressed with the work here, though I would like to point out one thing that I haven't seen yet (though I'm workingon a 16 colour moniter, so thing are hard to read and I've skipped around a bit). The line: "This means that if your pokemon's attack deter value is 0-7 it is female, and 8-15 it is male."

Now, yes, the above is usually correct, but not always. Sometimes the value 6 may give you male, sometimes A will give you female, depending on the speices.

As for Shiny Pokémon, it's just like having any other Pokémon with A set for its Defense, Speed, and Special. Therefore, yes, it'll be stronger than Pokémon whose stats read out as 9472 (9 being the attack, 4 def, 7 speed, I think, and 2 special). However, if you have a Pokémon whose DV (still haven't figured out what those letters mean, but I know what they refer to) is CDCF, then the Shiny Pokémon would be the weaker of the two. Besides from having a DV of xAAA, there's nothing special about a Shiny Pokémon, save its different colour and in-battle shine.

I believe that there's a 65,536 chance that you'll run into a Shiny Pokémon (though I could be wrong). And breeding them isn't too hard, breeding to get Shiny Pokémon, if you know the right information. For example, when breeding, if you take the four DV stats of a Pokémon, say Dad has ABCD and Mom has 1234, the you know off-hand that the child will have inherited either x2xx from the mother or xBxx from the father.

Strangely enough, when battling Pokémon, there's a values that determines whether a Pokémon's stats are **** or *AAA where * is a random number. It's at D10B (Gameshark: 01**0BD1), and setting this to 07 will cause the Pokémon to be Shiny (which may have been mentioned above, I've forgotten by now).

--Meowth346


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Porcupine
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posted 03-25-2000 06:50 PM      Profile for Porcupine   Email Porcupine   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey Meowth346! Are you the guy that makes the page Pokemon Forever? It is a great page with lots of great info! Right now I refer to about 6 different web pages maybe for valuable game info, this Azure Heights being one, and Pokemon Forever being another (also Necrosaro, StatsFinder, etc).

I don't know anything about breeding pokemon. Someday I will continue my Pokemon Gold game (Ash is defeated but I still have a lot to complete) and experiment with breeding. What is breeding good for?

I didn't understand what you wrote exactly, but do pokemon babies inherit ALL their stats from their parents? If so, raising babies might be a way to get a genetically perfect pokemon....without having to catch 65536 wild pokemon first, hehe.

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From: Honolulu, HI, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Argo
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posted 03-25-2000 08:58 PM      Profile for Argo   Email Argo   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Alrighty...i just got a shiney Yoogirasu in ash mountain...here are the stats guys:

Level:20
HP:50
At:30
Df:29
sd:27
Spat:29
Spdf:25

I hope this helps =]

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From: new york,NY,USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 03-26-2000 05:29 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

Well, I figured there were exceptions to the "0-7=female, 8-15=male", but so far all I've seen are the monsters with the sex preset. Meowth, can you give an example monster that would have, say, "0-5=female, 6-15=male"?

Not every XA AA monster is shiny. For instance, when X=0 or 1 it is not the case. The general point of all of my posts is just that a shiny monster has set stats, and those stats aren't bad, but aren't great. As far as odds go, it would be 1/65536 multiplied by the number of possibly shiny monsters (if 2-F are good, for instance, that is 14/65536). On the other hand, if a memory value is set before a shiny monster fight, then the odds could be handled seperately. Note that I don't know *all* of the combinations that result in shiny monsters. If anyone does, please post them... or the algorithm to determine them..


Thank you all for you responses...

-cfalcon

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From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Meowth346
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posted 03-26-2000 09:13 PM      Profile for Meowth346   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Let's see, what all to mention... A Pokémon with a gender besides 8 HEX for female and 8 for male would be...Growlithe. Only 4 values represent a Female Growlithe, and the others are for aa Male Growlithe. Same for the Machop and Abra lines.

Hitmonchan and 'lee are Male-only Pokémon. Chansey's Female-only. And despite what *anyone* tells me, Jynx is Female-only. Go ahead and plug in your GameShark and change the DV for Jynxie's Attack to any value, and she'll remain just that...she.

The Eevee's are 7/8 Male. That is, only 0~1 (if I'm thinking straight) give a Female Eevee, and 2~F are for Male Eevees.

To check this out the easiest way possible, check out the PKMN that you began with. It's like Eevee in that only 1 out of 8 (2 out of 16 HEX values) are Female, and the rest are male.

I'm sorry if anyone didn't understand what I said up above, but I'm gathering all of my work together, and when it's ready and up on my site, I'll probably present it to Azure Heights.

Quoted: "Not every XA AA monster is shiny. For instance, when X=0 or 1 it is not the case."

I'm not quite sure what you mean, but I'll have to check this out. As far as I know, all Shineis have xAAA where x is any HEX frmo 0~F, whether Genderless, non-genderless, etc, etc, etc...

As for the chances of finding a wild Shiny Pokémon. I've done all the math once already for my site, so I'm not going to repeat it all here. I know that it would be more believable for cfalcon and others if I showed my reasoning, but there is a 1/8192 (0.0122%) chance of your PKMN that you get being shiny. Keep in mind that this does not include ones from a trade...they won't suddenly be shiny because they were that .01%. This applies Pokémon that you battle and Pokémon that you get such as your starter, or Eevee from Bill, etc.

--Meowth346

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Meowth346
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posted 03-26-2000 09:21 PM      Profile for Meowth346   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As for posting the Stats of your Shiny Pokémon, I don't mean to disillusion anyone, but that won't really help discover anything new as far as I can tell (though let me know if I'm wrong about that).

As I'm sure's been mentioned before, your Pokémon's got four DVs, which are the eigenvalues or multipliers for your stats. When you get a Pokémon from someone in the game, or battle a Wild Pokémon, its DVs are determined, and are either 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, A, B, C, D, E, or F. The higer the DV value for a stat, the higher that that stat can be. For example, a Blastoise at level 100 with an Attack DV of 2 might have its Attack Stat be 100. But if instead its Attack DV was D (which is hexadecimal for 13), then the formula would have a higher sum, and that level 100 Blastoise's Attack Stat might be 152.

Basically, if the Attack DV is high, your Pokémon will be male, and if it's low, then it'll be female, as explained up above. That's what the Attack DV effects: gender. But what about your Defense DV, Special DV, and Speed DV? Does being high or low effect anything? Well, if all of them are set to A (meaning that their multiplier is 10), then the Pokémon will be Shiny.

I'm horribly not good at explanations (kinda' bad for a webmaster ^_^; ;), but I'm assuming that atleast cfalcon will understand what I'm saying (though I'm just repeating my higher up post in more detail), and maybe cfalcon'll be able to use my work here to save time.

--Meowth346

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[This message has been edited by Meowth346 (edited 03-26-2000).]


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cfalcon
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posted 03-28-2000 12:40 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

Thanks, Meowth. You were right about the differently distributed monsters (Eevees, etc.), and no one ever really doubted the single sexed monsters. Eevees should be mostly female. Oh well.

Future pokédexes (after this has been out in the US a while) should include this kind of info.

However, you performed a logical error: I said that not all XA AA monsters were shiny, and you said that you are pretty sure that all shiny monsters are XA AA. These are two different statements, and both are correct. Some values for X (notably the ones where X (the attack deter value) divided by two and rounded down is odd) yield shiny, the other half yield non-shiny. I got around to testing today, and what attack values yield what results are later on this post.

Your assessment that you don't want to do the "math"... come on, it's division. Number of deter values that come out shiny over number of total deter values. Heck, since they're both powers of two, it's really just subtraction

Clearly you know all this, as you have the correct (well, we think) odds for encountering a shiny monster, assuming that the game just pulls out a number in most cases. The actual shiny definition should be, in binary:
Att Def Spd Spc
XX1X 1010 1010 1010
= 2 A A A
3
6
7
A
B
E
F

So eight deter values out of 65536 is 8192.

However, the big problem is this: we don't know for a fact that ONLY XAAA values result in shiny monsters. Sure, the shiny Gyrados is EAAA, that's what led us onto this (right? did you start from a different angle?). Clearly shinies aren't popping up all over the place, so the odds couldn't be much more than 1/1024. However, another 8 values (pretend XBBB worked, with the same constraints) would increase the odds to one in 4096, which could also be the case. That's why I asked people to post stats: that way we can check to see if every reported monster follows the known pattern. If they do, then it's probably the only one.

Do you know for a fact if that isn't the case?

Are you certain that a monster traded from Red/Blue/Yellow/Green with the proper deter values *won't* be shiny? Or am I misreading you (the end of your second to last post seems to read that way)? I can't imagine how or why they would do that...


Thank you very much. I would have gone on giving out the same incorrect information (though I do include disclaimers when I haven't checked all of the possibilities) for quite some time, all because I did my initial tests with several monsters who turned out to have even distributions.


And yes, your post saved time

Responses anyone? Contrary information? New shiny deter values (likely we've found them all, but...)?


-cfalcon

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From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Meowth346
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posted 03-28-2000 01:46 PM      Profile for Meowth346   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm sorry for any contradictions, and the emphasis on the one gendered Pokémon mainly came from those at my own message boards who claimed to have seen Male Jynx, etc.

As for the xAAA. I meant that all xAAA are shiny, and that the only Shiny are xAAA. Now, you've said that in some cases that the value of x can prevent (or, if you will, 'not cause') shininess? Not that I do't believe you, but can you give me an example of one that I can punch into the game and see for myself? It'll greatly alter my research if it's true.

As for why xAAA, but not x9AB or xBBB? Above I gave the Gameshark code "01**0BD1" If you use the HEX value "07" the Pokémon will be shiny. I tried all 256 HEX values from 00 to FF in that, and those who were shiny had xAAA. This was the night after the game's release, and I didn't yet know about the Red Gyarados to use as a mold for my workings.

--Meowth346

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[This message has been edited by Meowth346 (edited 03-28-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Meowth346 (edited 03-28-2000).]


Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Meowth346
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posted 03-28-2000 06:08 PM      Profile for Meowth346   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I now see what cfalcon was saying about certain Attack DV preventing a Pokémon that should be Shiny from actually being shiny. I also found out that my Squirtly will be Male, not Female. His Attack DV being 4, I though he'd be female, but Blastoise is one of those 7/8 Male, 1/8 female Pokémon ^_^

--Meowth346


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cfalcon
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posted 03-28-2000 06:48 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

I guess it makes sense that all starters have that ratio of sexes...

?The day it came out? How did that particularly odd code come about so very fast? "Reads 7 whenever shiny monsters are on the way"? Neat trick. How did that come around? Do you have a seriously kick ass debugger on no cash GB or something (I use a shark and GB, mebbee I'm stubborn? slow?)?

While that experience points *very* strongly to the "shiny monsters all have XA AA attributes, where X is an element of (2,3,6,7,A,B,E,F),it doesn't *technically* prove it. The game may only force shiny once in a while (possibly that is an eight bit value that pulls up a shiny whenever a seven is rolled randomly, a 1/256 occurance), while "natural" shiny can come about under different circumstances.

This is highly unlikely. The odds probably are 1/8192. However, the odds of encountering a shiny monster are only 1/8192 if it randomly generates the deter values. Clearly the "force shiny" byte demonstrates the possibility that the shininess is determined elsewhere.

Actually, you may want to trace that byte and make sure it doesn't go random every battle and give you a shiny whenever it is seven (if you have spare time)...


Thank you very much,
-cfalcon

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From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Meowth346
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posted 03-28-2000 09:03 PM      Profile for Meowth346   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
After I got the games, I was quick to make ROMs of them to get images later that night, and then I decided to mess around with the RAM a bit. I first found out how to edit my Pokémon, then battles. I noticed that something else changed when the Boy that shows you how to catch Pokémon was battling. D1B0 was "03". So, I used the Gameshark feature to set "0103B0D1", and the main character was always replaced with the boy in battle. I tried 01, 02 (Auto-Leave battles), 04, 05, 06, 07...boom! Shinies!

At the time that I found the Red Gyarados, I began to wonder if the "07" was a one-toime thing or not. Afterall, the "03" values was supposed to only happend when the Boy was in battle, so maybe the 07 was only there when battling Gyarados (though I never actually checked if the 07 was present in that Red Gyarados battle). However, after reports of "Shiny Pokémon" and "Coloured Pokémon" began to turn up on Japanese Message boards the next day or so, I realized that I had found the RAM location for what I now call the "Shiny Gene".

If anyone's interested in my lot of Gold/Silver codes, I've typed up about 1/4 of them at: http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/Meowth346/gs/hex/gs_hex.htm

The rest are mainly event flags (battle people again, get 1-time PKMN again, etc. I should keep battling Red Gyarados and comnpare its stats each battle).

--Meowth346

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Narcissus
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posted 03-31-2000 01:38 PM      Profile for Narcissus   Email Narcissus   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just thought I would make this topic ON FIRE!!!

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Narcissus of Team Rocket..


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cfalcon
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posted 04-16-2000 03:15 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

There's been some recent posting on shiny monsters, I'd like to bring this topic back to the top in case some haven't read the earlier discussion.


Sadly, I have no new information to speak of here.


I like shorts. They're comfy and fun to wear.


-cfalcon

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From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Volrath50
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posted 04-16-2000 10:35 AM      Profile for Volrath50     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by cfalcon:

I like shorts. They're comfy and fun to wear.



Not that anyone cares but....

I belive the boy says "I like shorts. They're comfy and easy to wear."......


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"Mew!"
Our friend, Mewtwo

[This message has been edited by Volrath50 (edited 04-16-2000).]


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cfalcon
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posted 04-16-2000 08:48 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

cmon, Avalanche, read the string!

Apparently you can draw up a random shiny of any monster. There are (apparently) eight specific sets of gene values that will yield shiny monsters. The odds of one specific gene set occuring are 1/65536. So if you don't care which set of genes you get, you have a 8/65536=1/8192 chance of encountering a shiny monster at *any* point.

Keep in mind this assumes the game doesn't actively disallow shinies to appear randomly. Due to the existence of the random Tentacruel, however, I would say that isn't the case.

Shiny monsters have decent stats. Above average in most areas. Their deter values for defense, speed, and special are all 10, and their attack value is one of a set discussed earlier (15 is possible). This means that the hitpoint gene is either 0 or 8.

Hope this helps...

-cfalcon

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From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Givera
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posted 04-22-2000 12:38 PM      Profile for Givera   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I haven't played far enough in G/S to find the red gyarados or any other shinies but I'd like to ask a question... other than being shiny/discoloured is there any reason to have one over a platinum (Max DV) pokemon??
-Givera

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Mewtwo is sexless?? Where's the fun in that??


From: Plano, Tx | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Givera
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posted 04-22-2000 11:21 PM      Profile for Givera   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Quotes are originally posted by CFalcon
This also has the effect that if you trade a monster to red/blue and back, it will once again be recognized as the same sex as it was before.
I thought trades between R/B/Y and G/S were one way because they can learn new moves in G/S and that would really mess up there backwards compatibility.

Keep in mind that if everyone uses the slightly stronger, male pokemon, then whoever brings in a female with Melo Melo will be sitting pretty.
No... it just means that Nidoqueens and Jynx's will become a lot more popular!
-Givera

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"Mewtwo is sexless?? Where's the fun in that??" -Me

"If any punk-a-- Charmander tries to mount my Koffing, I'll have Wiggly crack his spine and Lee will throw him in a vat of Psyduck Surf!" -Mr. K

"Heh.....ditto is a G-- D--- pimp in g/s....he gets all the a--.." -Argo


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cfalcon
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posted 04-23-2000 03:44 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

I have no idea whether you can trade them back, but it would make since if you don't have any new moves on them. Besides, if you trade a monster from R/B/Y to G/S, it has to get something back, right? Why not a monster traded from R/B/Y and not modified?

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-cfalcon


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Meowth346
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posted 04-23-2000 08:12 AM      Profile for Meowth346   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There's a Time Capsule for trading between games, including from Gold/Sivler to the Red/Blue/Green/Yellow games. You can't enter on Gold/Silver, though if your Pokémon exceed PokéDex number 151 (you can only have PKMN #1-151), plus they must have no new numbers, nor an item equipt. And if you give a new HM to a Pokémon that you wish to trade back, you can find a man that'll make your PKMN forget attacks (since you previously couldn't delete HM attacks). Can't wait until I trade my Parasect to Silver and delete Cut to replace it with a better attack.

--Meowth346

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PokéResearcher in charge of Pokémon Forever
found via http://anime.at/pokefor


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Givera
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posted 04-23-2000 04:30 PM      Profile for Givera   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What I'm thinking is the timemachine simply removes the pokemon from RBY and places them on GS. And heres my reasoning behind this...
1) If the pokemon isn't removed from RBY you could send as many of them as you want... just keep sending them through the time machine; "Oh yea?? Well I have 50 billion mewtwos!!"
2) That would be a lot of trouble to send pokemon back to RBY and it doesn't make much sense anyways and would require you to do a lot of things to make them eligible I.E. remove HM and New TM and naturally learned moves, ensure they're #1-151, no items equipped, etc.
That's just my reasoning though... I might be wrong though...
-Givera

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"Mewtwo is sexless?? Where's the fun in that??" -Me

"If any punk-a-- Charmander tries to mount my Koffing, I'll have Wiggly crack his spine and Lee will throw him in a vat of Psyduck Surf!" -Mr. K

"Heh.....ditto is a G-- D--- pimp in g/s....he gets all the a--.." -Argo


From: Plano, Tx | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Givera
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posted 04-23-2000 11:07 PM      Profile for Givera   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey guys I just thought of something! The memory location meowth was talking about (The one if set to 7 makes shinies) well here's an idea (And it's ONLY an IDEA). Well that could be a driving byte for special events. When you fight the Red Gyarados (and any other intentional shinies) maybe it sets that to 07 and the enemy number to Gyarados's number. When the genes/DV/whatever are randomized before battle the game might read that memory location and think "If it's 07 then this pokemon's genes are EAAA (or appropriate other shiny no. combo) and if it's *INSERT OTHER NUMBER HERE* randomize pokemon's genes" What you should do to test this out is set that memory location to 07 and then capture a bunch of different pokemon and check their genes. If all the pokemon have genes of EAAA (or all the pokemon of a given type have the same *AAA genes) then that could unravel some clues to its usage in the game... maybe if that location is 07 they also read the pokemon type and come up with an appropriate *AAA combo (Gyarados makes it EAAA) Alright now I'm just babbling; I have no idea if what I'm trying to get across to you makes any sense but I hope it does because I don't think I understand it anymore (Plus I really have no idea what i'm talking about)
If it matters to anyone I thought of this because it's a trick some people use in writing starcraft maps. You set a switch (variable) to true under one event and another event continuously checks if that switch is true and when it is it runs. I have no idea why I posted that but I'm going to end this post now before anyone realizes... err umm... thinks I'm crazy ((Good save! ))
-Givera, inventer of the exploding Pikachu

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"My staff is complaining about the rats in the kitchen; I want to hire a new staff" -Lunchlady Doris on how to spend the School's oil money
"If any punk-a** Charmander tries to mount my Koffing, I'll have Wiggly crack his spine and Lee will throw him in a vat of Psyduck Surf!" -Mr. K on different species ability to breed
"Heh.....ditto is a G** D*** pimp in g/s....he gets all the a**.." -Argo on Ditto's ability to breed with anything/one


From: Plano, Tx | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Meowth346
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posted 04-24-2000 04:27 AM      Profile for Meowth346   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Changing 07 to (I think) 03 makes it so that Hiroki is replaced with Boy (shows you how to catch PKMN) in battles. Lemme' refer to my codes notes.
**steps out**

**returns**
Yup. 07-->03 makes the Boy there. 02 makes you leave battles upon entering them.


Oh, by the by, cfalcon, I was going through some notes of mine and found the "Attack" DVs needed in conjunction with the *AAA DVs to create a Shiny Pokémon. The attack's DV can be 2, 3, 6, 7, A, B, D, and E.

This creates a perfect 1/8192 chance of a Pokémon being shiny.

If I'm correct, if it's not mentioned above, I don't remember if it was, only An'noun's letter I can be shiny, since its shape depends on its DVs.

--Meowth346

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PokéResearcher in charge of Pokémon Forever
found via http://anime.at/pokefor

[This message has been edited by Meowth346 (edited 04-24-2000).]


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cfalcon
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posted 04-24-2000 01:42 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hrm.. an earlier post of mine lists them as:
2,3,6,7,A,B,E,F

... so one of us is wrong. Hopefully I'll check later...

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-cfalcon


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Meowth346
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posted 04-25-2000 01:32 AM      Profile for Meowth346   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oops, sorry, you're right cfalcon. Typo on my part. That D in mine should be swapped for an F. I was thinking skip two, type two, skip two, type two, and early as it was, I wasn't very attentative.

--Meowth346

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PokéResearcher in charge of Pokémon Forever
found via http://anime.at/pokefor


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Porcupine
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posted 05-04-2000 06:28 PM      Profile for Porcupine   Email Porcupine   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wow, you can change that 07 to a 03 to fight a Boy? Can you capture him into a pokeball? Maybe then you can capture Misty in Gold/Silver!

Also, it is COOL that you can Time Machine your Red/Blue pokemons to Gold/Silver for some modification. In addition, you can probably re-order your list of attacks to be more to your liking. Something that always bugs me.

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From: Honolulu, HI, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Kenji Pkmn
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posted 05-04-2000 10:50 PM      Profile for Kenji Pkmn   Email Kenji Pkmn   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Okay is there a way to make the real colored Pokemon appear? I dont like making my own shiny because well i just don't.

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Mr. K
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posted 05-05-2000 01:46 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You can re-order your attacks in RBY, too.

Just hit the...um, the little rectangular button on the left. Or are you talking about something else?

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KOFFING!
Azure Heights Pokémon Laboratory


From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Porcupine
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posted 05-05-2000 08:20 PM      Profile for Porcupine   Email Porcupine   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mr. K you CAN?! All this time I didn't know that you can re-order your list of attacks in RBY!!!! Lemme see. (like put Slash on top instead of on bottom, for example)

Kenji...that code you want is on this topic also, it is the one about 07s and 03s or something, it's here somewhere.....

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From: Honolulu, HI, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Magician Type 0
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posted 05-05-2000 09:01 PM      Profile for Magician Type 0     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mr. K, do you mean the select button?

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"Dance, Dance, Dance" --Casey "Magician Type 0" Morris (me), inventor of The Magician Bro

AIM: Magician Type 0
ICQ Nick: Mĺgěçěań T˙pé 0®
Number: 45597626
Email: webmaster@casog.zzn.com
http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/recognition/4615.html

I'm not insane. I just hear voices. And the aliens are stealing my thoughts.

"He's going out with the cutest Eevee" -Me, on my Magician Bro

- Casey Morris- Founder of the FUOA (Flash Users of America)


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Meowth346
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posted 05-05-2000 11:58 PM      Profile for Meowth346   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The way I would re-organize attacks would be in battle. Just press Select on an attack that you want to move, then press Select on another attack, and they switch places.

Hmm...how off topic is this? ^_^

--Meowth346

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PokéResearcher in charge of Pokémon Forever
found via http://anime.at/pokefor


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Mr. K
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posted 05-06-2000 02:47 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Magician Type 0:
Mr. K, do you mean the select button?

Yeah, I think so.

I don't have a Gameboy in front of me, and I couldn't remember the name of the button on the left.

Anyway, you can definitely reorder your attacks in RBY.

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KOFFING!
Azure Heights Pokémon Laboratory


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Porcupine
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posted 05-08-2000 06:46 PM      Profile for Porcupine   Email Porcupine   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
HOLY FUCK!!!! WOW ALL THIS TIME I NEVER KNEW ABOUT THAT!!!!! WWWOOOOOAAAAAAHHH!!!!!!!!!

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From: Honolulu, HI, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Porcupine
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posted 05-08-2000 06:47 PM      Profile for Porcupine   Email Porcupine   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hrm, just realized that my previous post might look sarcastic. Well, it is not. I am really blown away by that info! Thanks Mr. K and Meowth346!!!

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From: Honolulu, HI, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jigglypuff
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posted 05-21-2000 12:27 PM      Profile for Jigglypuff   Email Jigglypuff   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mellow Mellow stops a pokémon of the opposite gender from attacking.

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The empty §ig of Jigglypuff!


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Porcupine
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posted 05-23-2000 04:12 PM      Profile for Porcupine   Email Porcupine   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mellow Mellow stops them from attacking, for how long? Does it go away if they are switched out?

A lot of movelists give incomplete information like this. For example looking at most movelists you might think Mysterious Protection protects you from status changes forever, but actually the protection only lasts 5 turns or so.

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From: Honolulu, HI, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged


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