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Author Topic: Sunny Day oddity/King's Rock question
Donald
Bob the Builder
Member # 1551

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posted 07-07-2003 12:41 PM      Profile for Donald   Email Donald      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
1) When using a Sunny Day/Moonlight Vileplume recently, the Moonlight only restored 3/4 of my max HP (it was 20/103 before, 97/103 after) during a "Strong Sun" state.

I used it during the afternoon, so I suspect that may have something to do with it. I'll take another crack at it tonight and see what happens.

2) Some people at other forums are claiming that the King's Rock now gives a 9.7% flinch rate to any move that doesn't have a Flinch rate already, and gives the example of a flinch as a result of Dragonbreath.

Is there any credence to this?

From: In your girl's panties | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dark_Herakurosu
Farting Nudist
Member # 1677

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posted 07-07-2003 02:34 PM      Profile for Dark_Herakurosu   Author's Homepage   Email Dark_Herakurosu   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I dunno about the first one, but yes. King's Rock now gives a flinch rate to any move without an existing flinch rate. I've personally seen it happen, with Blaziken's Blaze Kick. (Which, oddly, has two natural effects.)
From: the wreckage of Indianapolis | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Donald
Bob the Builder
Member # 1551

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posted 07-07-2003 11:36 PM      Profile for Donald   Email Donald      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Update:

At approx. 12:30 am game time, the experiement was repeated.

Vileplume had 28 of a possible 141 HP when the Moonlight was used, which brought it to 134.

3/4 of 141: 105.75

134 - 28 = 106

So rounded up, 3/4 seems like a sensible total for the Light healing moves during Sunny Day.

From: In your girl's panties | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Continue
Farting Nudist
Member # 31

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posted 07-10-2003 04:08 PM      Profile for Continue   Email Continue   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would be curious which other forums are claiming the compatibility about King's Rock. I've seen something like that at TPM, but I didn't put much stock in it, primarily because I hadn't seen anybody put up a definitive listing for current compatibilities or evidence of testing.

As to the actual rate of flinching, I don't know for sure. What moves it's compatible with is a different story. Someone advanced me a copy of a spreadsheet with some raw game data, part of it being a King's Rock compatibility bit. I have no reason to disbelieve the accuracy of the listings as I've re-checked a few possibilties. Among those was Dragonbreath. Dragonbreath doesn't get the flinch rate. As to those who do:

A couple of them seem strange, but I'm not the one came up with this game (and all of its oddities).

EDIT: Removed list since it was the wrong one.

[ 07-10-2003, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Continue ]

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Hexagonal Research - aiming to measure up to its predecessor

From: Boca Raton, FL | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Donald
Bob the Builder
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posted 07-10-2003 05:27 PM      Profile for Donald   Email Donald      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The forum I was referring to in the opening post was the RS Battle Strategy forum at GameFAQs.

I looked at the list of moves that Continue posted, and it looks like the list of moves that make "contact" with the opponent - the same type of moves that would activate Delcatty's Cute Charm ability or something of that nature. So it could be that the King's Rock gives "contact" moves a x% chance of flinching.

But what's the rate, and is that list completely accurate? There's at least two moves on there (Astonish and Needle Arm) that already have a Flinch possibility, two OHKO moves (Guillotine and Horn Drill), and one move that always goes last and fails otherwise (Counter).

This IS a rather perplexing subject, and it's something I should look into. Of course, I said the same thing about checking Assist's interaction with Sketch *laughs nervously*

From: In your girl's panties | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Fluorine
SMELLY BUTT
Member # 2904

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posted 07-10-2003 08:06 PM      Profile for Fluorine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
...oh...

I think that I have mixed up the contact bit and the king's rock bit. The list Continue just pasted would actually be all the moves that contact.

The real list for king's rock would then be:

AERIAL ACE
AEROBLAST
AIR CUTTER
ARM THRUST
BARRAGE
BEAT UP
BIDE
BIND
BLAST BURN
BONE RUSH
BONEMERANG
BOUNCE
BRICK BREAK
BULLET SEED
CLAMP
COMET PUNCH
CRABHAMMER
CROSS CHOP
CUT
DIG
DIVE
DOUBLE KICK
DOUBLE-EDGE
DOUBLESLAP
DRAGON CLAW
DRAGON RAGE
DRAGONBREATH
DRILL PECK
EARTHQUAKE
EGG BOMB
ENDEAVOR
ERUPTION
EXPLOSION
EXTREMESPEED
FAINT ATTACK
FALSE SWIPE
FIRE SPIN
FLAIL
FLY
FRENZY PLANT
FRUSTRATION
FURY ATTACK
FURY CUTTER
FURY SWIPES
GUST
HI JUMP KICK
HIDDEN POWER
HORN ATTACK
HYDRO CANNON
HYDRO PUMP
HYPER BEAM
ICE BALL
ICICLE SPEAR
JUMP KICK
KARATE CHOP
LEAF BLADE
LOW KICK
MACH PUNCH
MAGICAL LEAF
MAGNITUDE
MEGA KICK
MEGA PUNCH
MEGAHORN
METEOR MASH
MUD SHOT
MUDDY WATER
NIGHT SHADE
OUTRAGE
OVERHEAT
PAY DAY
PECK
PETAL DANCE
PIN MISSILE
POISON TAIL
POUND
PSYCHO BOOST
PSYWAVE
QUICK ATTACK
RAGE
RAPID SPIN
RAZOR LEAF
RAZOR WIND
RETURN
REVENGE
REVERSAL
ROCK BLAST
ROCK THROW
ROLLING KICK
ROLLOUT
SAND TOMB
SCRATCH
SEISMIC TOSS
SELFDESTRUCT
SHADOW PUNCH
SHOCK WAVE
SIGNAL BEAM
SILVER WIND
SKULL BASH
SKY ATTACK
SKY UPPERCUT
SLAM
SLASH
SNORE
SOLARBEAM
SONICBOOM
SPIKE CANNON
SPIT UP
STEEL WING
STRENGTH
STRUGGLE
SUBMISSION
SURF
SWIFT
TACKLE
TAKE DOWN
THRASH
TICKLE
TRIPLE KICK
TWISTER
UPROAR
VICE GRIP
VINE WHIP
VITAL THROW
VOLT TACKLE
WATER GUN
WATER PULSE
WATERFALL
WEATHER BALL
WHIRLPOOL
WING ATTACK
WRAP

Heh, this makes much more sense.

[ 07-10-2003, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: Fluorine ]

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Continue
Farting Nudist
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posted 07-10-2003 09:37 PM      Profile for Continue   Email Continue   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Fluorine:
...oh...

I think that I have mixed up the contact bit and the king's rock bit. The list Continue just pasted would actually be all the moves that contact.

Yeah, that's my guess. I didn't check the labelling of the spreadsheet (I just got this today). I'm guessing it got mixed up. I'm going to remove that list, since we have a better one here.

So, why didn't Dragonbreath get a single flinch after 50 trials with the King's Rock attached? I've never seen such skewed results in link battle testing for R/S.

Edit: Ah, didn't know your fourm ID here. As you pointed out in the e-mail, though, no elemental punches on this list. A few others, no Acid, Ember, Flamethrower, Ice Beam, etc. Certainly not as was orignally advertised and giving flinch to everything that didn't already have it.

[ 07-10-2003, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: Continue ]

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Hexagonal Research - aiming to measure up to its predecessor

From: Boca Raton, FL | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Fluorine
SMELLY BUTT
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posted 07-10-2003 10:13 PM      Profile for Fluorine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Gosh, I am REALLY tired today. I just made a fairly awesome blunder that I edited out, I hope no one had the time to see it ;_;

Anyhow, I'll also note that blaze kick isn't on the list yet DH here claims it has a flinching effect.

I'm all mixed up now. Maybe the list is just wrong, although it does seem right. It's also possible, in regard to dragonbreath, that the program does additional checking, or that you tested against a Golbat (immune to flinching) 8)

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Continue
Farting Nudist
Member # 31

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posted 07-14-2003 10:28 PM      Profile for Continue   Email Continue   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Fluorine:
Gosh, I am REALLY tired today. I just made a fairly awesome blunder that I edited out, I hope no one had the time to see it ;_;

Anyhow, I'll also note that blaze kick isn't on the list yet DH here claims it has a flinching effect.

I'm all mixed up now. Maybe the list is just wrong, although it does seem right. It's also possible, in regard to dragonbreath, that the program does additional checking, or that you tested against a Golbat (immune to flinching) 8)

Just putting in a last word on this.

No, I wasn't testing on a pokemon that had Inner Focus. I was beginning to wonder if one of the other abilities had that as a secondary effect, though.

I did finally get Dragonbreath to flinch in testing, but there was something else going on that's really strange. I ended up doing 110 additional trials with Dragonbreath before I got that flinch. I'm wondering if I would have even gotten that if I hadn't just about lost it.

What happened is that after 104 of those additional trials with Dragonbreath, I started using a move that doesn't have a time-wasting side effect (at least as far as testing time is concerned). I chose Scratch. After 57 trials, it hadn't flinched the opposing pokemon. In frustration, I tried a weirdness check. I traded the pokemon I was choosing between gamepaks.

Why would I do that? In some prior testing on weather-causing abilties, I noticed that which end of the link cable is plugged into the GB determines which trainer throws out pokemon first in the link battle animation (previously someone on here had said that it was the position in the room which determined this order, but I was looking for that and found that was not true for battles between two players). I thought that might make a difference (I was grasping for straws at this point).

With the pokemon in different paks (which means on the opposite ends of the cable, since I didn't think to just switch the cable around instead), I tried Scratch again. I got a flinch in 5 trials. With the setup changed in that way, Dragonbreath flinched after 6 trials.

I'm not sure what about this change in setup accomplished, as far as setting things right. The pokemon that used King's Rock and the one that was being hit did not change between the different setups. It may simply be that a new random number seed was generated with the alteration, and the previous one just wasn't coming up with the values needed to trigger the King's Rock.

As far as the report previously in the topic about Blaze Kick and King's Rock...I attempted 139 trials. Of those, 32 were with the changed setup in which I able to get the flinch rate with other moves in under 10. It never flinched the opposing pokemon. I'm inclined to believe that if DH's memory of the event is accurate, it is a bug or malfunction, similar to my own experience with King's Rock not working.

As far as I can see from my testing, Fluorine's list accurately shows which moves gain the benefit from King's Rock, barring any unusual conditions.

EDIT: Forgot one important sentence.

[ 07-14-2003, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: Continue ]

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Hexagonal Research - aiming to measure up to its predecessor

From: Boca Raton, FL | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged


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