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Author Topic: Magikarp Length
jshadias
Farting Nudist
Member # 2710

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posted 06-05-2002 04:42 PM      Profile for jshadias   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What's the formula for determining a Magikarp's length? I can't find it on Pokemon Forever and on past topics links are f2s.

[ 06-09-2002, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: jshadias ]

- - - - -
What Nintendo doesn't want you to know
Uiru: "Now that we're all used to the rules, clauses and by-laws... what would happen to the metagame if every one of them were whipped away?"
GP-Chan: "id probably quit every battle, and not just every other battle."
ThumbsOfSteel: "Why, because they broke the rules?"

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spunman
Farting Nudist
Member # 1181

posted 06-09-2002 03:53 PM      Profile for spunman        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
edit: getting this info up to date...

the u.s. formula is based on the japanese. the japanese magikarp dude measures them to tenths of centimeters. the u.s. version puts this through int(length/2.54) to get our length in inches.

the charts i had here previously i have removed. they worked off the assumption that only speed and special genes affected length, which is incorrect. they data was also listed in inches, which is shitty data considering the millimeters lost in the japanese->u.s. equation.

[ 06-11-2002, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: spunman ]

From: the middle | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
MK
is somewhat large.
Member # 1445

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posted 06-10-2002 01:50 AM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It would take me a while to find, but, I have some information on Magikarp formula somewhere on my harddrive, but, it's not necessarily a solution. I've tried to find an answer to this, anyway, I heard that the trainer ID NUMBER plays into the formula somehow. Maybe tomorrow afternoon if I'm not dead tired like I feel now, I can search my computer and post what relevant Magikarp Data I can find....

-Tired MK

EDIT: Fixed Error

[ 06-13-2002, 02:43 AM: Message edited by: MK ]

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MK
is somewhat large.
Member # 1445

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posted 06-10-2002 02:07 AM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Magikarp's Length Formula

(A*64h+ (int ((BC+10000h-DE) /F)) %100h)) ÷10

[It] rolls it up by using rrc (Right Rotate Carries) (Bit is put and [it] right shifts and [it] does and overflowing old 0bit is put in new septenary bit).

Example of RRC:
rrc 10010010=10010010 rsh 1 = 010010010 = 10010000
****************************** |********|
________________________________newbit7_______bit7
___________________________________________ is replaced

Correct me if I'm wrong.

V = Concatenation of Speed and Special DVs
X = Concatenation of Attack and Defense DVs
W = High byte of Magikarp's ID
Y = Low byte of Magikarp's ID
B = RRC(RRC(X)) XOR RRC(Y)
C = RRC(RRC(V)) XOR RRC(W)

If it is BB=FFh only after the value of the following table is seen on, the value of the table below is used most.

Values are in hexadecimal.

E D F A
6E,00,01,02
36,01,02,03
C6,02,04,04
96,0A,14,05
1E,1E,32,06
2E,45,64,07
C6,7F,96,08
5E,BA,96,09
6E,E1,64,0A
F6,F4,32,0B
C6,FC,14,0C
BA,FE,05,0D
82,FF,02,0E
E6,FF,01,10
Maximum is 162.5 cm

Please help me decipher the stuff in italics. Perhaps they're the key for figuring out more of the formula.

===========
This might have been Meowth346's information, I'm not sure...

EDIT: Edited stuff

[ 06-13-2002, 02:44 AM: Message edited by: MK ]

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spunman
Farting Nudist
Member # 1181

posted 06-10-2002 12:01 PM      Profile for spunman        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
removed useless info.

right shift (why it's included i don't know, as it doesn't appear to be used) simply moves all bits to the right, cutting off the least significant bit (lsb). right shift is how a computer divides by two, which is why we'll always get an integer (the lsb is lost). right rotate carry does the same thing, but the lsb is saved in a "carry" register and moved to the most significant bit (msb). the example is also wrong. it's more like this:

rrc 01001001 (49) = 10100100 (a4)
rsh 01001001 (49) = 00100100 (24)

[ 06-11-2002, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: spunman ]

From: the middle | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
MK
is somewhat large.
Member # 1445

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posted 06-10-2002 02:52 PM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's the stuff that was in italics...

[It] rolls it up by using rrc (Right Rotate Carries) (Bit is put and [it] right shifts and [it] does and overflowing old 0bit is put in new septenary bit).

If it is BB=FFh only after the value of the following table is seen on, the value of the table below is used most.

ingrates

[ 06-13-2002, 02:44 AM: Message edited by: MK ]

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spunman
Farting Nudist
Member # 1181

posted 06-11-2002 08:54 AM      Profile for spunman        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i'll work off two assumptions, both devised from past experience:
1. poccil got this info from meowth364.
2. poccil copied it verbatim, so it wasn't poccil that was confused by the italicized bit, it was meowth.

with this info, i would first like to thank meowth (or whoever was originally responsible, if my meowth guess is wrong) for giving us a HUGE help in solving this. thanks, meowth! =) unfortunately, this also means meowth won't be able to get us any further than we already are, unless he's done some work on this since he last uploaded this info.

didn't get a lot of time to work on this yesterday, but the double rrc's for the gene bytes check out (with ot set to 0000), as do the single rrc's for the ot bytes (with genes set to 0000). there is also a definite, gradual, directly proportional pattern to the outcomes. last but not least, genes and ot# are of equal value (i.e. an ot# of 110b, which rrc's to 8885, and genes of 0000 will get the same length magikarp as setting genes to 2216, which rrc's to 8885, and ot# to 0000).

[ 06-11-2002, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: spunman ]

From: the middle | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
MK
is somewhat large.
Member # 1445

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posted 06-13-2002 02:41 AM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I sent Meowth346 a message, maybe he can help us out...

And yes, from now on, we shouldn't even say 'poccil' because all of the stuff that was ON poccil's site was just Meowth's information copy and pasted...

Meowth, please don't turn away from this project just because poccil was mentioned, thanks...

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Meowth346
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Member # 166

posted 06-13-2002 08:35 AM      Profile for Meowth346   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I generally don't vist the Azure Heights forums due to the language used. But, I'm constantly getting messages about this one post, so I may as well reply to it.

jshadias: ...I can't find it on Pokemon Forever...
I could put it on Pokemon Forever, but I figured that this formula would be one of the last that people would want to see online, as there are more important ones to get to first.

spunman: the u.s. version puts this through int(length/2.54)
Not quite. 100h (256) is used, not FEh (254). I'm sure that you can see, spunman, that this small difference will barely effect many results, but there are some that these different values give different results for.

MK: This might have been Meowth346's information, I'm not sure...
Nope, it's from TeamPA. And a poor translation at that. If I had it on my site, it'd be as I've extracted it straight from the assembly, and it would actually make sense (not being a poor machine translation as the one posted above obviously is.)

spunman: right shift (why it's included i don't know, as it doesn't appear to be used)
I'm not sure what you mean by "it doesn't appear to be used"--it *does* play a role in the outcome of the final length.

I have a PHP file that gives the English and Japanese lengths based on IVs and ID No. Anyone can contact me on ICQ, AIM, MSN, or Yahoo, and I can show the page if I'm not busy. Maybe I'll re-write it as a C++ program for download, and release it with my "Find IVs in 10 Rare Candies or less" program.

There's a reason that I stopped reading posts on this forum. After looking at just one post other than this one, I'm reminded that I never want to visit this forum again. Don't expect any more replies about this topic here from me.

--Meowth346

- - - - -
Researcher in charge of Pokémon Forever.

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spunman
Farting Nudist
Member # 1181

posted 06-13-2002 10:34 AM      Profile for spunman        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
saying i agree with meowth would be hypocritical, but i do feel for him. his morals are sound (unlike mewtwo master's "i love god but i hate you, you, and you" thing). my being part of the problem doesn't help, but changing that wouldn't help any, either. and meowth's doing exactly what one should do if they have a problem with azure: avoid it, not fill up the forums with posts about how it sucks and how everyone should change or just be ashamed of themselves. can't have anything but a wealth of respect for meowth.

anyway, with the assembly code he has the answer. it's that simple. unfortunately, we don't, so we continue...

after filling in some of the holes, not ALL of the outcomes are proportional. spots here and there don't follow the same pattern as the rest. that table at the bottom of poccil's teampa ripoff must play a part, but i can't figure out how to implement it. what i'm going by now is, "If it is BB=FFh only after the value of the following table is checked, the value of the table below is used instead." but what is "it"? and why does it say "bb=ff" instead of "b=f", unless it should say "bc=ff"? still a lot to figure out.

i was looking forward to working on this. i'm glad i hit the bug contest first, though.

From: the middle | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
MK
is somewhat large.
Member # 1445

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posted 06-14-2002 04:17 AM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ok, I spoke to Meowth, he has some kinda of Magikarp calculator that finds both the American and Japaneese lengths based on DVs and Trainer ID number. Anyway, here are two examples based on an FFFF magikarp with ID# 52810 and then another one. However, these are 14 POSSIBLE lengths, the game chooses one of them somehow. Meowth said he doesn't remember offhand how the game picks which one it wants to use...

==========
Magikarp Length Finder
IVs: ffff
IDNo: 52810

30.8 cm
1' 0"
51.0 cm
1' 7"
53.3 cm
1' 8"
73.3 cm
2' 4"
74.7 cm
2' 5"
80.1 cm
2' 7"
102.3 cm
3' 3"
102.3 cm
3' 3"
121.3 cm
3' 11"
117.1 cm
3' 9"
140.5 cm
4' 6"
151.1 cm
4' 11"
157.2 cm
5' 1"
184.4 cm
6' 0"

==============
Magikarp Length Finder
IVs: 0346
IDNo: 00346

27.8 cm
0' 10"
49.5 cm
1' 7"
52.5 cm
1' 8"
62.9 cm
2' 0"
80.7 cm
2' 7"
83.1 cm
2' 8"
87.3 cm
2' 10"
112.9 cm
3' 8"
124.3 cm
4' 0"
123.1 cm
4' 0"
130.1 cm
4' 2"
135.1 cm
4' 4"
155.7 cm
5' 0"
181.4 cm
5' 10"
============
Here's some exerts from the conversation me and Meowth had...

Meowth346: The results are the possible
results that can be calculated. I still need to
re-write the script to only show the one
result that the guy in the game actually
uses.
MK: oh, so, he has like a cut off point
MK: well, I think you should leave it as is...
it's neat to know what really is biggest, even if it
is unacheivable
Meowth346: Well, there are 14 sets of
values that he can choose from, but he'll
only use one of those 14, ever, based on
the information of the Magikarp.
Meowth346: So, even though you see 14
possible values, only one of those values
will ever be used for that Magikarp.
MK: oh, well, how does it pick which
one??
Meowth346: I forget offhand.
MK: oh ok, no prob

=========
*end*

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MK
is somewhat large.
Member # 1445

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posted 07-13-2002 02:27 AM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Anyone come up with anything?
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jshadias
Farting Nudist
Member # 2710

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posted 07-13-2002 02:37 PM      Profile for jshadias   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No, but it will be one of the first things I look at once I get the ROM deciphered, along with accuracy.

- - - - -
What Nintendo doesn't want you to know
Uiru: "Now that we're all used to the rules, clauses and by-laws... what would happen to the metagame if every one of them were whipped away?"
GP-Chan: "id probably quit every battle, and not just every other battle."
ThumbsOfSteel: "Why, because they broke the rules?"

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MK
is somewhat large.
Member # 1445

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posted 07-14-2002 12:29 AM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks man...
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