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Author Topic: Countering Horn Drill [A Wobbuffet Tale]
MK
is somewhat large.
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posted 10-17-2001 03:08 PM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I decided to do a little research of my own.

I wanted to find out what would happen if Horn Drill got countered? Now, I know what you’re thinkin, you dope! Horn Drill kills you so you can’t counter it... Well, here’s where I came in... I did this on Stadium 2 BTW...

I had a level 5 Wobbuffet [with 38 max HP] holding a Focus Band

Versus

A level 95 Smeargle [with 297 max HP] holding Poison Barb

The Wobbuffet only knew counter.

The Smeargle knew Sweet
Scent, Lock-on, Horn Drill, and Sketch.

Anyway, I finally got the results I wanted...

Smeargle used Horn Drill.
OHKO! Wobbuffet held on with focus band. [1HP/38HP]
Wobbuffet used Counter...

Now, what happenes?

A: Wobbuffet will automatically OHKO the Smeargle since the base damage of Horn Drill is infinate assuming it hits.

B: The Counter will do 76 damage to Smeargle [Max HP of Wob x 2] since the horn drill was supposed to take away all of Wobba’s HP.

C: The Counter will do 74 damage to Smeargle [Damage attack did x 2] since the attack only did 37 Damage.


D: Counter will fail since Horn Drill isn’t calculated normally like other attacks that use the attack power formula.

E: My Stadium Catridge froze up.


Anyway, one of those 5 happened, if you want to take a guess go ahead. Scroll down to see what really happened...

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Just a little more
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C: The Counter will do 74 damage to Smeargle [Damage attack did x 2] since the attack only did 37 Damage.

That’s what happened. So it went like this

Smeargle [297/297HP] used Horn Drill

OHKO, Wobbuffet held on with focus band [1/38HP]

Wobbuffet used Counter

Counter does 74 HP Damage leaving Smeargle with [223/297HP]

Too bad Countering a OKHO doesn’t do something fun like OHKO the person who used Horn Drill in the first place, that would rock, but, at least now we know the truth, thanks everyone who took the time to read this, and, pat yourselves on the back if
you guessed what would happen correctly.

Oh and just one more thing while you're here, please visit www.zeldapower.com and, if you have the time, please donate a buck or two to help the webmaster out, it is a really great website with lots of neat downloads and stuff, and, the webmaster has kinda fallen on hard times. Thanks.

*end of message*


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Jolt135
Farting Nudist
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posted 10-17-2001 05:36 PM      Profile for Jolt135   Author's Homepage   Email Jolt135   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Comparing that to what just happened to my new team (battle held at about 7:30 CDT last night)...

(R2 Prime Cup, battle 2. Fish is the name of my Mew.)

Fish used HORN DRILL!
One-hit KO!
BUFFET hung on with FOCUS BAND! (HP: 1/550)
BUFFET used COUNTER! (1098 damage, according to what MK just found)
Fish fainted!

Someone ought to try making a serious team that includes Wobbuffet...


From: Woodbridge, VA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
MK
is somewhat large.
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posted 10-17-2001 10:50 PM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A Wobbuffet on a real team could be cool, the main problem is, if I was going to have him on a team, I'd want him to be baton passed something... But not just anything will do..

Double Team? No way, the only way Wobbuffet will do any good is if he DOES get hit so he can counter/mirror coat

SwordsDance? Pointless really... Since his Attack won't matter unless it comes down to struggle.

Curse? Well, this would raise his defense, but, then again, you want him to get hurt so he can just send back more damage to the enemy.

I think the best thing you could baton pass Wobbuffet would be Agility. That way he can Safeguard right away and has a chance of his Destiny Bond working (Destiny Bond has to go 1st for it to have a chance, and Wobba isn't very fast in the speed department)

So, if I was going to put a Wobbuffet on a serious team, you might want to Baton Pass him some Agility. As for the item to have him hold, since his HP is so high, as long as you don't have a Blissey or Snorlax on your team, give him the Leftovers...


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Mu
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posted 10-17-2001 11:25 PM      Profile for Mu   Author's Homepage   Email Mu   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Destiny Bond doesn't have to go first for it to have a chance, you are thinking narrowly.
Using Destiny Bond second is basically like saying "Okay, now it's your choice, do you want to lose that Pokemon or let me gain more life back from Leftovers this turn?"

I can't imagine a Wobbuffet ever working without Leftovers.

Problem with Wobbuffet is that he's so limited - Every single one you will see will have the exact same moveset, because that's all he can have. If you're incredibly lucky you might see someone playing one without Leftovers.
So he tends to only work against people that don't really know how to deal with him, either that or don't happen to have a Pokemon on their team that could simply use the time Wobbuffet is pathetically Mirror Coating/Countering to boost their own stats and plug in with an attack everytime Safeguard falls.

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¿µ?


From: Auckland, New Zealand | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
MK
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posted 10-18-2001 01:00 PM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I thought that Destiny Bond had to be used the same turn that Wobbuffet would faint and that it must go first to have any use, for example...

Wobbuffet used Destiny Bond.
Celebi used Hidden Power.
Wobbuffet faints, Celebi faints too.

We're both in agreement there...
This is how I thought it also worked.

Celebi used HiddenPower
Wobbuffet used Destiny Bond
[Turn ends, and Destiny Bond was useless]

So, you're saying that if Celebi goes first next turn and uses something to knock out Wobbuffet they will both faint? If so, that makes Destiny Bond a little more worth using...


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JP Nogueira
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posted 10-18-2001 03:07 PM      Profile for JP Nogueira   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's it!

Destiny Bond works for the opponent's next move.

- - - - -
----======= (o)
JP Noga
Gym Leader from Brazil


From: Brazil | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
LanderZRPG
Got a whale of a tale to tell ya, lads!
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posted 10-18-2001 07:44 PM      Profile for LanderZRPG   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MK:
So, you're saying that if Celebi goes first next turn and uses something to knock out Wobbuffet they will both faint? If so, that makes Destiny Bond a little more worth using...

In a word: Yes.

- - - - -
From what we've learned, it seems like you'd prefer girls dressed in ant costumes or something... -Kazuki (Regarding tl;dr)

Owner of the Power Advantage DBZ RPG
(www.poweradvantage.net)


From: High Prairie, AB, Canada | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
JoHtO TrAiNeR
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posted 10-19-2001 12:13 PM      Profile for JoHtO TrAiNeR   Author's Homepage   Email JoHtO TrAiNeR   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's it!
Destiny Bond works for the opponent's next move.


(too lazy to click on "reply with quote"
---------

-Yes, that's exactly it...

Example:

>Level 5 Raticate used Tackle!

>Wobbuffet used Destiny Bond!

>Level 5 Raticate used Tackle!

>Wobbuffet fainted! And brought down with it, Raticate!

>Raticate fainted!

-Umm...at least I think it's how that works, had it done to me before...I think.....

- - - - -
"Man is born free...and everywhere he is in chains."
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Quote relates to the "wage-slave cycle" which most of you are in.


From: St. Paul, MN,USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
theclaw
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posted 10-20-2001 05:45 AM      Profile for theclaw   Author's Homepage   Email theclaw   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wobbuffet is NOT the slowest pokemon of all! Check Geodude and Slowpoke's stats. Nintendo doesn't have much interest in pokemon's in-game stats.

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Come to my web site at http://geocities.com/theclaw135 . My message board is at http://pub081.ezboard.com/btheclaw135selectriccastle.

From: Pokemon World | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Donald
Bob the Builder
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posted 10-20-2001 11:44 AM      Profile for Donald   Email Donald      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by theclaw:
Wobbuffet is NOT the slowest pokemon of all! Check Geodude and Slowpoke's stats. Nintendo doesn't have much interest in pokemon's in-game stats.

And who said Wobb was the slowest Pokemon? *gives theclaw a 1*

Heck, Wobb isn't the slowest final-form Pokemon. Exibit A: Shuckle.

[Edit] Various typos.

[ 10-20-2001: Message edited by: cmsnrub25 ]


From: In your girl's panties | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Face
I invented cancer.
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posted 10-20-2001 11:51 AM      Profile for Face   Author's Homepage   Email Face   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
theclaw is back NO!!!!!!!!!...*goes off to rate him a 1*

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Weezing!

From: Hackensack, nj | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jumpman16
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posted 10-21-2001 04:12 AM      Profile for Jumpman16   Author's Homepage   Email Jumpman16   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Good work, MK.

Research like this by smart GS trainers like you is the reason Azure doesn't have to update to metallic info.


From: Where they make Heinz® ketchup | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Crimzonite
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posted 10-21-2001 07:30 PM      Profile for Crimzonite     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MK:

I had a level 5 Wobbuffet [with 38 max HP] holding a Focus Band

Versus

A level 95 Smeargle [with 297 max HP] holding Poison Barb

The Wobbuffet only knew counter.



*blinks* And just how did you get a Wobbuffet that only knew Counter? The only way I can think of is with a Gameshark.


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Tghost
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posted 10-21-2001 07:41 PM      Profile for Tghost   Author's Homepage   Email Tghost   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Move Deletor...the dude in Blackthorn.....

- - - - -
My brain went on vacation and left my pancreas in charge

From: Auckland, New Zealand | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
MK
is somewhat large.
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posted 10-21-2001 11:27 PM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks Jumpman16
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Crimzonite
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posted 10-22-2001 04:29 PM      Profile for Crimzonite     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tghost:
Move Deletor...the dude in Blackthorn.....


Oh. Sorry. Stupid me. He isn't very important to me so I tend to forget he even exists. Sorry. ^_^;;;;


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Tux The Linux Penguin
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posted 10-25-2001 10:14 PM      Profile for Tux The Linux Penguin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MK:
Too bad Countering a OKHO doesn’t do something fun like OHKO the person who used Horn Drill in the first place

If the countering Pokemon is level 100, very rarely will your opponent survive a countered OHKO move. Thus, countering a OHKO move will OHKO your opponent who used horn drill in the first place.


From: Walla Walla, WA | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
MK
is somewhat large.
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posted 10-26-2001 05:19 PM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If the Pokémon who got hit by Horn Drill and survived had full HP at the time, then yeah, it could do some damage.

Blissey held on with focus band.
Blissey COUNTERS!
If the Blissey was a Max Statter in the HP Department, and was at full HP when hit, we're lookin at a counter pulling in at 1428 HP DAMAGE!!! ROCK!!!


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Tghost
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posted 10-26-2001 07:27 PM      Profile for Tghost   Author's Homepage   Email Tghost   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Now, that's all well and great, but to counter a OHKO reliably, you're looking at a 29.7% chance and a 11.7% chance, meaning that the chances of this actually occuring are about 3.47%. Not exactly viable, is it? It even depends upon your opponent having a OHKO move....which is probably the reason why nobody really bothered to research countering of OHKOs before now...

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My brain went on vacation and left my pancreas in charge

From: Auckland, New Zealand | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
MK
is somewhat large.
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posted 10-26-2001 10:52 PM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
True Tghost, totally true, I just wanted to know what would happen. Idealy, Countering a OHKO would do infinite damage to the opponent at any level, but it doesn't. Even if it did, it would still have little to no value in a battle senario, but, it would be cool to know it did though

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"As for the question at hand, all I ask is that she's breathing, Christian, and likes me. Boobies are a bonus." -cmsnrub25


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poccil
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posted 10-26-2001 11:04 PM      Profile for poccil   Author's Homepage   Email poccil   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What about Fissure and/or Guillotine? I believe that damage from these moves won't be returned at all. Hasn't someone tried this already?

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"I believe that poccil is an intelligent, respected member of the online Pokemon community." -sarcastic comment by White Cat

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MK
is somewhat large.
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posted 10-26-2001 11:22 PM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I can go check myself sometime Poccil, but my question is WHY wouldn't they work like Horn Drill? Guillotine is a normal type attack just like Horn Drill, and Fissure is a Ground type attack. Both Normal and Ground type attacks are counterable, the exact same results should happen.

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