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Author Topic: Critcal HIts and the "ignoring"
LavosPhoenix
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posted 06-20-2001 02:52 PM      Profile for LavosPhoenix   Email LavosPhoenix   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Konnichiha!

Well, to my Knowledge, CHs Ignore Defensive Modifiers of the Opponent, Correct?

So, That means they don't Ignore Stat upppers on your Poke, right?

For example, If I would use a Cursing Machamp, and I cursed up fully, then I got a Critcal HIt, then It would still figure in the Curses, and won't ignore them, correct?

Thank you for your time....

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From: Collinsville, Illinois (Just east of St. Louis) | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Divine Wind
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posted 06-20-2001 04:26 PM      Profile for Divine Wind   Author's Homepage   Email Divine Wind   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's right, stat increasers or stat decreasers are ignored on the opponent, but not on your pokemon (the one that got the CH)
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Random Loser
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posted 06-20-2001 04:57 PM      Profile for Random Loser   Email Random Loser   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Wind:
stat increasers or stat decreasers are ignored on the opponent

Just to make sure I've got this right.. that would mean that any screeches I'd used would be ignored?

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From: Uni of Virginny | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
LavosPhoenix
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posted 06-20-2001 05:13 PM      Profile for LavosPhoenix   Email LavosPhoenix   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
NO, it wouldn't ignore Screech, only Stat uppers..
It always the "most" damage....

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From: Collinsville, Illinois (Just east of St. Louis) | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Divine Wind
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posted 06-20-2001 06:12 PM      Profile for Divine Wind   Author's Homepage   Email Divine Wind   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm pretty sure it gets rid of stat decreasers too, like Screech. I think it just uses the original defense.
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JohtoMaster
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posted 06-20-2001 09:37 PM      Profile for JohtoMaster   Author's Homepage   Email JohtoMaster   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Testing on my part would prove you both wrong. This is for PokéSta1, seeing as that is the only version I have tested it on. I had two Tobybro's go up against each other, both with equal stats in every aspect. When one used Surf right of the bat, it did around 55 damage. When one was fully amnesied (sp?), it did around 165 damage. When both were fully amnesied, it did around 55 damage. Now, when one was fully amnesied, and the other used Surf on it and scored a CritHit, it did around 110 damage. This suggests that CritHit ignores defenderes modifiers. But when one was fully amnesied and scored a CritHit against the other, it did around 110 damage. This suggests that it ignores offensive modifiers. When both were fully amnesied and one scored a CritHit, it did around 110 damage. This may sound like endless babbling, but what it proves is that CritHits ignore both Offensive and Defensive modifiers.

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From: Valparaiso, IN, USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Random Loser
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posted 06-20-2001 11:28 PM      Profile for Random Loser   Email Random Loser   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think we all understood that CHs ignore all mods in r/b.. I s'pose it wasn't made clear, but this was about g/s, where the CH rules were changed...

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From: Uni of Virginny | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kingdra The horsea
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posted 06-22-2001 08:09 AM      Profile for Kingdra The horsea   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
um, it makes u think a f.e machamp is some what important to use..

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From: Sayreville NJ USA | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
LavosPhoenix
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posted 06-25-2001 12:20 PM      Profile for LavosPhoenix   Email LavosPhoenix   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So, if I use a Cursing Lugia, I won't be Penalized if Aeroblast CHs??

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From: Collinsville, Illinois (Just east of St. Louis) | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
geese
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posted 06-26-2001 07:06 AM      Profile for geese   Email geese   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by LavosPhoenix:
So, if I use a Cursing Lugia, I won't be Penalized if Aeroblast CHs??


Not at all. Critical hits always favour the attacker. So say you had two fully cursed Blisseys' attacking each other with Double Edge. The attacking Blissey that hit the critical would do x2 damage from a 472 att vs the defending Blisseys' 118 def.

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From: London | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
MK
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posted 06-26-2001 03:56 PM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cool senario!
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JohtoMaster
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posted 06-26-2001 04:34 PM      Profile for JohtoMaster   Author's Homepage   Email JohtoMaster   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sorry, my mistake.

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From: Valparaiso, IN, USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
D D
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posted 06-28-2001 02:46 AM      Profile for D D   Email D D   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have to add something here.
supposed a machamp is charmed 3 times and it CH on an umbreon with passed acid armor with reflect on, it still OHKOs it. This leads me to think that CH ignores stats down on you.

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spunman
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posted 06-28-2001 03:00 AM      Profile for spunman        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
that seemed pretty clear to me from the thread, but i have checked to make sure. attack increases are used, decreases are ignored. defense decreases are used, increases are ignored. damage is *almost* doubled, but i've yet to figure out just how the formula doubles it.

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From: the middle | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
NickWhiz1
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posted 06-28-2001 10:50 AM      Profile for NickWhiz1   Author's Homepage   Email NickWhiz1   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by spunman:
that seemed pretty clear to me from the thread, but i have checked to make sure. attack increases are used, decreases are ignored. defense decreases are used, increases are ignored. damage is *almost* doubled, but i've yet to figure out just how the formula doubles it.


I think it doubles the level.

Here's a scenario:

Shark a L127 and a L128 Machamp with Focus Energy and Cross Chop with a Scope Lens attached. Have it face a L150 Snorlax or something.

If it doubles the level, the L127 will do a ton of damage, since its Level will be temporarily raised to 254 (ouch!).

If that holds true, then the L128 should do miniscule damage, because its Level is raised to 256, but since apparently the level part of the code can only handle up to 255 (remember the L100+ trick from R/B/Y?), it will AND it with 256, leaving you at Level 0. I think that's right, but I don't know.

I suppose it does almost double damage due to the +2 applied before the weakness and STAB.

=/

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From: Toledo, OH, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
mleo2003
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posted 06-28-2001 06:59 PM      Profile for mleo2003   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A lot of the places I have been says that the Level is multiplied times 2. As the damage formula is now, it starts with 2 * Level. With the 2 times modifier, it would start as 4 * Level. That is how a lot of the people I know calculate it.

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From: Forest, Mississippi | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
spunman
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posted 06-29-2001 09:24 PM      Profile for spunman        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i've tried doubling the level and it doesn't always work. i've also tried halving defense, but that doesn't always work either. (it does if i don't make it an integer, tho. =P) i'm sure neither of these is the way the game actually doubles the damage, but i'm not sure what IS the way. right now i just need to collect more data. i'll see later on if i actually start having problems.

right now, *before* i'm considering my data complete, it looks like attack or power are doubled. at least, there's a *2 multiplier somewhere in that set of parenthesis.

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i am the sandshrew! cu-cu-kachoo!
"so? mentar thinks it's a good idea." - givera
"there ain't nothin' like whackin' and snackin'." - pkthunder


From: the middle | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
spunman
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posted 06-30-2001 03:12 AM      Profile for spunman        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
well, i was hoping i could start off with something no one knew, but after a quick check at a few of the sites, metalloid research already has it. good on their part, tho. ^_^ anyway, FOCUS ENERGY CAN BE BATON PASSED! there, i said it. i'd read the page at metalloid, but i didn't remember seeing that before.

chance to critical hit: high critical hit rate attacks start with 2 grades. if focus energy has been used by the attacker since it's been out (or if it's been baton passed), add 1. if attacker is holding scope lens, add 1. a farfetch'd with stick or chansey (NOT blissey) with lucky punch get 2 and only 2, whether they've used focus energy (sharked) or not, and whether they're using a high critical hit rate attack or not. yes, this does mean a farfetch'd with scope lens will critical hit more with slash than it would if holding a stick.

0 - 6.25% on the nose, 1 test, 200 samples (6.25%)
1 - 11.75-13%, 2 tests, 200 samples (12.5%)
2 - 24-26.75%, 7 tests, 200 samples (25%)
3 - 35.5-37.5%, 3 tests, 200 samples (37.5%)
4 - 48.5-50.75%, 2 tests, 200 samples (50%)

doubling the damage: so... i'll end with something no one knew. i've read many places that critical hits double the attacker's level. everyone seems to agree with this, but it's not true. to choose just a few numbers for an example, a sharked farfetch'd with 500 attack and 208 defense did 362, 374, 397, and 410 damage, which agrees with the level theory. it also did 402 and 409, which would be skipped if using the level theory, and 422 which the level theory doesn't even reach (max 415). however, doubling the attack stat or attack's power works perfectly with all the values given. whether the game actually doubles the attack stat or attack power i don't know, and i don't think there's a way to know without hacking the rom. (for those of you with personal damage calculators that double the level instead of the attack/power, critical hits can do a bit more than your calculator's telling you.)

the obvious: as we all know already, decreases to attacker's attack and increases to defender's defense are ignored.

anywho, my girlfriend's getting REAL antsy (it's technically her birthday now, though i wasn't planning on celebrating until the morning), so i won't be updating my site with any of this tonight. consider it like a sneak peek, or something.

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i am the sandshrew! cu-cu-kachoo!
"so? mentar thinks it's a good idea." - givera
"there ain't nothin' like whackin' and snackin'." - pkthunder


From: the middle | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
MK
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posted 06-30-2001 03:16 AM      Profile for MK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thank you spunman for the info... good work.
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LavosPhoenix
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posted 06-30-2001 04:04 PM      Profile for LavosPhoenix   Email LavosPhoenix   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I guess I stirred up some "Research".
I was sorry to ask you people of this question in the first place, but, if I didn't how am I going to learn??

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*Hugs his Shiny Nuke*
*Licks his Stick 'O Molasses!*


From: Collinsville, Illinois (Just east of St. Louis) | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
spunman
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posted 06-30-2001 11:09 PM      Profile for spunman        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
nah, didn't stir up any research. i've got a nice list of things i mean to do, and i'm always adding to it. critical hits were thrown in after a little talk with sabregirl back in april. i've only just finished them because i've been wasting a lot of my precious free time on gsbot lately.

sometimes i finish my projects at an opportune time where a thread already exists here on the subject and sometimes i don't. this topic DID encourage me to get off my lazy ass and finally do it, tho. eh.

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i am the sandshrew! cu-cu-kachoo!
"so? mentar thinks it's a good idea." - givera
"there ain't nothin' like whackin' and snackin'." - pkthunder


From: the middle | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
White Cat
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posted 07-03-2001 01:15 AM      Profile for White Cat   Author's Homepage   Email White Cat      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And another long-standing myth is debunked.

Does this work the same in RBY?

All hail spunman!

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From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged


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