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Author Topic: Is it possible to burn a fire type or freeze an ice type?
Pokegod
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posted 04-16-2001 06:48 PM      Profile for Pokegod     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I ran several tests on Stadium RBY using two magmar's fire blasting on eachother, and have never inflicted a burn. I also used used a bunch of ice beams on a lapras and haven't frozen it, but I haven't tested it enough to know for sure. Does anyone know about these things?

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Tghost
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posted 04-16-2001 06:59 PM      Profile for Tghost   Author's Homepage   Email Tghost   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes. An Ice type can be frozen, a Fire type can be burned.

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Dragonite21
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posted 04-17-2001 07:25 AM      Profile for Dragonite21     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yet a poison type can't be poisoned...strange..

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spunman
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posted 04-17-2001 12:57 PM      Profile for spunman        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
but an electric can be paralyzed. body slam and dragonbreath also paralyze, tho, so i guess that's not so applicable. stun spore, too. ah, nevermind. i just thought it was strange.

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Porygone
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posted 04-17-2001 01:19 PM      Profile for Porygone   Email Porygone   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is it just me or does Thunder Wave seem to have trouble hitting types that resist Electric attacks? Two Thunder Waves in a row didn't affect my Meganium.

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PikachuThunder
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posted 04-17-2001 05:48 PM      Profile for PikachuThunder        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Porygone:
Is it just me or does Thunder Wave seem to have trouble hitting types that resist Electric attacks? Two Thunder Waves in a row didn't affect my Meganium.


Eh, that just happens sometimes. If I recall correctly, in Gold, four Thunder Waves in a row from Clair's Dragonair didn't connect with my Feraligatr.

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Pokegod
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posted 04-20-2001 06:08 PM      Profile for Pokegod     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I still haven't burned a fire type or frozen an ice type. Maybe burning fire or freezing ice doesn't occur only in stadium RBY?

Yeah, I think thunderwave in the Dragon Gym is screwed up, because I've had several misses too.

Edit: Clarifying

Edit2: ARRGGGHH!!!!
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[This message has been edited by Pokegod (edited 05-03-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Pokegod (edited 05-03-2001).]


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Professor Utsugi
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posted 04-21-2001 01:24 PM      Profile for Professor Utsugi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, for those who own Stadium2 (like me),
one of Earl's lectures clearly states that statuses like burn,paralysis, frozen, and others *do* occur with their respective types, just not as often as it would against other types.

--Utsugi


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MewtwoSama
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posted 04-21-2001 01:49 PM      Profile for MewtwoSama   Author's Homepage   Email MewtwoSama   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Leech Seed doesn't work on Grass types.

And knowing is half the battle

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Proud owner of a Thrustmaster


From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Porygone
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posted 04-21-2001 01:56 PM      Profile for Porygone   Email Porygone   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To add to the Thunder Wave messages:

My Ampy recently dodged five Thunder Waves IN A ROW......

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Reminder to Jenova: Be horribly mean to Ancient Egyptian Cat-Gonk and me.

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spunman
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posted 04-21-2001 03:43 PM      Profile for spunman        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
grr... methinks stadium2 is screwing everything up. just when we all thought we now how all these attacks worked...
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kelv
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posted 04-26-2001 06:23 PM      Profile for kelv   Email kelv   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Don't know where I got it, or whether it is validated or not, but rumor has it that burns on Fire-types, etc. only occur 10% of their normal rate. For example, a 10% chance of burn move only burns Fire Pokémon 1% of the time. This is also true for Freeze vs. Ice types, Poison vs. Poison types, and Leech Seed against Grass types.

I also heard somewhere that Grass/Poison is the type most resistant to status changes. I think this can be easily falsified, though.


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Mana Lugia
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posted 04-26-2001 10:32 PM      Profile for Mana Lugia   Author's Homepage   Email Mana Lugia   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's a funny one...

I was facing a yellow trainer- in yellow i mean.

She had 2 bellsprout and an oddish.

I sent bulbasaur. I did NOT get paralyzed, sleeped, nor poisoned(It is poison type though...) once in the battle, and the trainer only attacked once with something other than spores!

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oporaca
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posted 04-28-2001 02:22 PM      Profile for oporaca     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One time in RBY, my rival had a L:40 Venusaur out, and I was forced to use my Level 14 utility Bellsprout. I won. He used Poisonpowder every turn and it never worked. It took easily over 50 turns to win. According to the 10% theory, he would have had a 7.5% chance of poisoning me each turn. Poison does not affect other Poison-types, at least not in RBY.

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Gloomboy
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posted 04-28-2001 07:19 PM      Profile for Gloomboy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I doubt that ice-types can be frozen,but I think that burn can affect fire-types and paralysis from Thunder attacks can work on electric-types,thought not as often.

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ZZTRaider
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posted 04-28-2001 08:05 PM      Profile for ZZTRaider   Email ZZTRaider   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I personally have seen an Articuno be frozen, so believe it.

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I use Mewtwo, and I don't care if you think he's cheap or not. He'll always be on my team (except in situations where Mewtwo is banned for some stupid reason), including on G/S, not for stats, but because I like him as a pokemon. So there!


From: A Long, Long Time Ago; In A Galaxy Far, Far Away | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Pokegod
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posted 04-29-2001 02:43 AM      Profile for Pokegod     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ZZTRaider:
I personally have seen an Articuno be frozen, so believe it.


Where did you see it get frozen? Stadium? GB? G/S?

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dark is stronger then any other pokemon i some how bet a level 20 machocke with a dark catier pe at level 2.
-some goofy newbie


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ZZTRaider
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posted 04-29-2001 08:09 AM      Profile for ZZTRaider   Email ZZTRaider   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've seen it in Chromatics Stadium and Gameboy. I haven't seen it yet in Metallics anything (partially because I don't have Stadium 2), but that's kind of because I don't really use an ice type to get frozen, and I didn't try to freeze the pokemon in the Ice Gym. More testing will be neccessary, but I doubt that it changed that much from RBY.

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* ZZTRaider wonders how Mew survived Labor with Mewtwo
I use Mewtwo, and I don't care if you think he's cheap or not. He'll always be on my team (except in situations where Mewtwo is banned for some stupid reason), including on G/S, not for stats, but because I like him as a pokemon. So there!


From: A Long, Long Time Ago; In A Galaxy Far, Far Away | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Pokegod
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posted 04-30-2001 09:45 PM      Profile for Pokegod     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I still haven't burned a fire type in Pokemon stadium. Several times I used a vulpix at a low level using 8 fire blasts on a lv 100 flareon and got no burn. Right after I tried using fire blast on a onix just for the heck of it and burned it the first try. Well, I know that doesn't mean anything... but nonetheless it should've burned by now because its a 30% chance after all!

I haven't been testing the ice type thing, but when I do I'll have 2 lapras' using ice beam on each other. If that doesn't get a freeze, I don't know what will!

Edit: The results of the lapras vs lapras test: 30 out of 30 ice beams (15 for each side) did not inflict a freeze condition. I had one ice beam left each before one of the lapras' fainted.

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dark is stronger then any other pokemon i some how bet a level 20 machocke with a dark catier pe at level 2.
-some goofy newbie

[This message has been edited by Pokegod (edited 04-30-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Pokegod (edited 05-02-2001).]


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cfalcon
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posted 05-02-2001 01:30 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ok, this shit pisses me off. Here's my contribution: 12 Sacred Fire's didn't burn Ho-Oh. I wasn't testing Sacred Fire, my friend was playing against his own team, and started wondering if you could burn fire types (he got into pokémon two5 weeks ago).

That isn't ironclad or anything, but it does pretty much show that the odds must be modified, as sacred fire's burn rate is normally 50%ish, right? "Reduced" odds doesn't mean jack. This is Azure heights, and we want percentages!

I've seen T-wave not affect my guys as well. I would like to get some tests going on here: if each of you would throw as many (hopefully at least 10) T-Waves at a type you suspect might resist it (grass, electric), one that LACKS brightpowder and report the results here we will quickly have a statistically signifigant sample. I mean, it either works almost all the time or it doesn't, we can detect differences.

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-cfalcon

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From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Continue
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posted 05-02-2001 05:10 PM      Profile for Continue   Email Continue   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I wasn't actually testing for this, but I did get the result of a Fire-type being burned.

My test was actually on the stat mods associated with conditions. It's a bizarre mix of what was seen in the Chromatics and G/S.

Anyway, the conditions were a Porygon using Tri-Attack on a Charizard. This was just to see the unmodified damage, before a burn would be inflicted on the Porygon and other stat-altering moves were used. On this occasion, the Charizard was burned.

None of the other information that I have on the rate of condition infliction makes sense at the moment.


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cfalcon
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posted 05-02-2001 06:12 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
ALL data must be posted with where it happened to be helpful at all. Earl's manfucking center claims that fire types USED to be unburnable, but don't we know that wasn't right? Every piece of information currently has four categories:

Chromatic Gameboy.

Chromatic Stadium.

Metallic Gameboy.

Metallic Stadium.

I'm referring to Metallic Stadium... I'm pretty sure fire bitches burned back in chromatic gameboy, but I'm not positive about chromatic stadium. Is the porygon test from metallic stadium or gameboy?

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-cfalcon

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Meowth346
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posted 05-03-2001 12:05 AM      Profile for Meowth346   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I figured I'd give this a go:

Stadium GS
6 Ho-oh
Each with Sacred Fire (8 PP) and Recover

144 uses of Sacred Fire against Ho-oh

Opponent computer controled.

48 Sacred Fires used on Easy Mode.
48 sacred Fires used on Normal Mode.
48 Sacred Fires used on Hard Mode.

Not once was the opponent Ho-oh ever Burned. Never.

--Meowth346

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Researcher in charge of Pokémon Forever, a compilation of about 1/1000th of my work.


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cfalcon
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posted 05-03-2001 02:24 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Excellent! So the current sway of things implies that a fire type never gets burned by fire attacks... more precisely, Ho-Oh never gets burned by sacred fire (which is how I did my testing).

"Never" however, is an assumption: if the odds were changed to 5% or so, then we might not have picked it up yet... in theory.

We also have fire types getting burned by non-fire moves. I'm willing to vote that Tri-Attack is a special case, in the same way that you can poison a steel type with Twinneedle (can't you? I think I saw it once).

My feeble testing today was 20 T-waves against grass types (all paralyzed) and 16 against electrics (all paralyzed). The thing we really want to check is, of course, T-bolt and Thunder, but those will probably follow whatever formula fire types follow (an assumption, of course).

Great work, as always, Meowth.

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-cfalcon

"I want to punch Quagsire "
-Fish151PKMN


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Continue
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posted 05-03-2001 03:26 PM      Profile for Continue   Email Continue   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by cfalcon:
Excellent! So the current sway of things implies that a fire type never gets burned by fire attacks... more precisely, Ho-Oh never gets burned by sacred fire (which is how I did my testing).

"Never" however, is an assumption: if the odds were changed to 5% or so, then we might not have picked it up yet... in theory.

We also have fire types getting burned by non-fire moves. I'm willing to vote that Tri-Attack is a special case, in the same way that you can poison a steel type with Twinneedle (can't you? I think I saw it once).


I can't say that I've seen a Steel type poisoned by any move, but I haven't tried. Perhaps some Poison Powder is in order?

Anyway, my notation was for Stadium 2 (I won't refer to it as Metallic as it includes Crystal).

Even Burning non-fire types has yielded strange odds while I've been doing my testing.

My testing for Burn consisted of the use of Rentals. In this case, Houndoom with Ember and Porygon (needed for Sharpen as an Attack-raiser). I don't have information on all of the trials that I have done, but I did record some previously.

Each set consisted of 5 Ember attacks (since that was the nuimber of times that Porygon could reciprocate without using a move that could change the results).

On my second attempt to burn Porygon, I had recorded 10 sets with no Burn. There were however, 3 Critical Hits by Houndoom in that time. A burn was achieved in the next set. I did not note exactly which attack in the set it was.

Of note:
Unaided CH rate from information for G/S: 6.6%
Burn rate for Ember in G/S: 9.8%

Admittedly, this particular listing is a small sampling size. However, I have racked up somewhere over 300 attempts to burn with these two pokemon (to test the various conditions) and I have noted that there has always been one CH Ember in the attempts between cases of burn happening.

This is why I said that my information on the rate of status infliction doesn't make sense.

[This message has been edited by Continue (edited 05-03-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Continue (edited 05-03-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Continue (edited 05-03-2001).]


From: Boca Raton, FL | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 05-03-2001 03:41 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Very interesting.

By the way, the use of "metallics" pretty much refers to crystal as well, even though it isn't a type of metal: the point is, it is to Gold and Silver what Yellow was to Red and Blue, so metallic stadium is a pretty good name, especially given that our stadium 2 is really stadium 3... We're just trying to use terms that are as general as possible while still being wholly accurate ("Stadium 2 US" or "Stadium 2 non-Jp" would probably be a better call).

I really didn't think criticals were going to come into the status assignment process. I'm suspecting that any correlation you see is probably an anomaly.

At least I hope so. Otherwise it'll blow my tiny little mind.


Thanks for the information. Once everyone starts doing tests and posting the results here, we can quickly unravel the problem, with parrallel testing standing in for the standby 10x emulator speed and lone dork quest.

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-cfalcon

"I want to punch Quagsire "
-Fish151PKMN


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Pokegod
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posted 05-03-2001 06:13 PM      Profile for Pokegod     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Update on Chromatic Stadium tests:.... Still nothing... Either you can't burn/freeze an ice/fire Pokemon, or the 10% theory posted by kelv is true (at least for freeze and burn).

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dark is stronger then any other pokemon i some how bet a level 20 machocke with a dark catier pe at level 2.
-some goofy newbie


From: Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Continue
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posted 05-03-2001 07:26 PM      Profile for Continue   Email Continue   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by cfalcon:
Very interesting.

By the way, the use of "metallics" pretty much refers to crystal as well, even though it isn't a type of metal: the point is, it is to Gold and Silver what Yellow was to Red and Blue, so metallic stadium is a pretty good name, especially given that our stadium 2 is really stadium 3... We're just trying to use terms that are as general as possible while still being wholly accurate ("Stadium 2 US" or "Stadium 2 non-Jp" would probably be a better call).


Yes, I do recognize that the common usage has been to refer to all 3 of the GB games as Metallics, but it just isn't accurate, so I prefer not to use it. Stadium 2 US is easy enough to type should it be an issue (there might have been some bug fixes between the Japanese and US release <shrug> ).

quote:

I really didn't think criticals were going to come into the status assignment process. I'm suspecting that any correlation you see is probably an anomaly.

At least I hope so. Otherwise it'll blow my tiny little mind.


Hmm...I hope my information wasn't taken in an unintended manner. I haven't seen anything directly relating the two. The occurance of burns was never actually directly preceded by a CH. It would just occur sometime between the time the previous burn had been inflicted and the next one occurred.

I'm really only noting that I saw more occurences of CHs in my trials than I did of the status infliction. With such low percentages for the occurance of either, this may just be a result of the game generating much more random numbers than we've seen in previous version of pokemon.

quote:

Thanks for the information. Once everyone starts doing tests and posting the results here, we can quickly unravel the problem, with parrallel testing standing in for the standby 10x emulator speed and lone dork quest.

We hope. The problem is (and I speak from experience with the first US Stadium) the more significant sampling sizes that can show the differences take a really long time. Those 300+ trials that I mentioned were spread over 4 days. You're going to find more people of the right age to have the time here, but the tedium of running more than 30 or so trials can be excruciating if you don't have some other stimulus at the same time as Stadium.

BTW, I was incorrect in my previous post. Poisonpowder is a Poison-type move. On the upside, it only took 3 tries to confirm that Twineedle could poison a Steel-type. On the bizarro-side, there was a CH on the second try.


From: Boca Raton, FL | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Pokegod
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posted 05-04-2001 09:58 PM      Profile for Pokegod     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've just had an insight! The reason twineedle poisons steel types is because its just like body slam paralyzing a ground type. You can't paralyze grounds with thunder wave because its electric, but body slam is a normal attack. Same with twinneedle, its a bug attack instead of a poison attack, so it can poison steel types while poison attacks can't. This also applies to tri attack, which is a normal attack. I bet it can freeze ice, as well as burn fire. I wouldn't be surprised if you can poison a poison type with twinneedle!

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dark is stronger then any other pokemon i some how bet a level 20 machocke with a dark catier pe at level 2.
-some goofy newbie


From: Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Meowth346
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posted 05-05-2001 04:22 AM      Profile for Meowth346   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I tried some more, having seen mention of Twineedle and Poison-types.

Game: Pokémon Gold Version Gameboy Pak

My Pokémon using Twineedle vs Grimer.
Twineddle used vs Grimer 240 times.
Grimer is NEVER Poisoned.

My Pokémon using Twineedle vs Tentacool.
Twineddle used vs Tentacool 1040 times (don't ask. This whole complete thing took about 10 minutes, so it's not really time wasted on my paws)
Tentacool was NEVER Poisoned.

So, do what you will with it. I figure that Grass-types can't be Leech Seeded and that the already Poisonous Poison-types can't be Poisened, but, as already mentioned above, Fire- and Ice-types can be Burned/Frozen by non-Fire-/Ice-type attacks.

Of course, I've yet to see Fire-types Burned, Ice-types Frozen, nor Steel-types Poisoned. Of course, I haven't tested for those with Tri Attack/Twineedle yet.

--Meowth346

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Researcher in charge of Pokémon Forever, a compilation of about 1/1000th of my work.


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kelv
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posted 05-08-2001 11:22 PM      Profile for kelv   Email kelv   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Didn't do any tests (since I'm taking an unholy pleasure of repeatedly beating the CPU in Mario Tennis on Intense), but maybe I should look into that 10% theory...

I think this 10% rule only works on same-type attacks. Since there are conflicting reports on different-type attacks, I'm inclined to think something else is governing them...

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Mu
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posted 05-21-2001 04:44 AM      Profile for Mu   Author's Homepage   Email Mu   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Meowth346:
So, do what you will with it. I figure that Grass-types can't be Leech Seeded and that the already Poisonous Poison-types can't be Poisened, but, as already mentioned above, Fire- and Ice-types can be Burned/Frozen by non-Fire-/Ice-type attacks.

I've Seeded many a Grass type from RBY to GS.
It fails a bit, but it will still work, although in GS it fails more often than not these days. It seems to fail the most against Grass/Poison types.

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From: Auckland, New Zealand | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Meowth346
Farting Nudist
Member # 166

posted 05-22-2001 10:41 AM      Profile for Meowth346   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, while going through Gold/Silver/Crystal ROM/RAM/etc. data for a few hours, I found some things:
Poison-types can NOT be Poisoned.
Fire-types can NOT be Burned EXCEPT by Tri Attack.
Ice-types can NOT be Frozen EXCEPT by Tri Attack.
Grass-types CAN be Leech Seeded (though I've yet to actually see this one work ^_^ ) (Note: I'm saying this because there was nothing programmed in to prevent it, and Mu stated that it's happened before.)
I didn't see anything that stated that Steel-type can't be Poisoned, so I can't say for that one.

The rules may differ in StadiumGS, but that's the data encoded into the Gameboy versions. Maybe I should take out a few hours to check through StadiumGS's ROM/RAM data, as well?

--Meowth346

[This message has been edited by Meowth346 (edited 05-22-2001).]


Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
OLDNBLD
Member # 19

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posted 05-22-2001 11:47 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Steel is IMMUNE to poison attacks. If there was a normal attack that poisoned things, they would get poisoned by it (well, there's no promise that changing POISONPOWDER to normal would accomplish that, as it isn't an attack and so is probably handled on a case-by-case basis or something, like THUNDERWAVE.

Poison can't be poisoned in any version that I've seen. They are not immune to poison attacks, however (they resist).

Ground types can be paralyzed via any method that doesn't involve THUNDERWAVE or any electric attack, including Body Slam, Dragonwhatever, and Stun Spore. No one claimed that they were immune to paralysis.

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-cfalcon

"Go Beep with many people"
-Stadium 2 slut


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jigglypuff
Farting Nudist
Member # 144

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posted 06-02-2001 08:52 PM      Profile for Jigglypuff   Email Jigglypuff   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My most unlikely stadium 2 experience must be when I had just DT'd 5 times and then Blizard hit, twice in a row.

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Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
TheEverlastingGobstopper
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posted 06-02-2001 10:17 PM      Profile for TheEverlastingGobstopper     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was fighting Red, and his Tauros hit me with Fissure after 6 DT's. WTF!?

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Straight jackin' saves you that edge, it's low maintenance, don't need a woman!-The Big Hit
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From: nashville,tn usa | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
SDShamshel
Farting Nudist
Member # 791

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posted 06-03-2001 08:53 AM      Profile for SDShamshel   Email SDShamshel   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In RBY gameboy, I DO recall Poisoning a Poison type with Twineedle. My memory's not completely sharp, but I believe it was one of Agatha's Gengars.

And even if you run the tests against Poison types, remember that Twineedle's Poison rate is already low. In that same fashion, I could shoot 16 Ice Beams at a non-Ice type Pokemon and all 16 have a good chance of not freezing.

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[This message has been edited by SDShamshel (edited 06-03-2001).]


From: Tokyo-3 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged


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