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Author Topic: Bezerk Gene and Baton Passing
Divine Wind
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posted 01-04-2001 09:21 PM      Profile for Divine Wind   Author's Homepage   Email Divine Wind   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Can the attack boost be Baton Passed? It is increasing a stat, and it disappears after it raises the attack and confuses you. Since Baton Pass doesn't pass Status Effects, Confusion doesn't get passed but the attack does. If it works, it could make a cool combo on Girafarig (can pass Spl Def, Speed, AND Attack)

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Automaton
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posted 01-04-2001 09:55 PM      Profile for Automaton   Author's Homepage   Email Automaton   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Damn, that's pretty badass. Plus you can pass to another passer, then pass it back, and give yourself the bonus again. Or does it reset like Thick Club?

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"Well, Hiro, time to probe the bush. Let's get this party started."-Ronfar, Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete


From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Divine Wind
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posted 01-04-2001 10:34 PM      Profile for Divine Wind   Author's Homepage   Email Divine Wind   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How would it reset? From what I understand, the Bezerk Gene doubles your attack, confuses you, then disappear, so you have no item. It effects your stats, so I believe it would be passed, but I'm not sure. If it does, then you can have the ultimate Baton Passer a Girafarig-Amnesia, Agility, Rest, Baton Pass >>Bezerk Gene
The next pokemon gets a doubled attack, higher speed, and higher special defense. And If you can pass it, you can pass it to a passer then pass it back and still have the raised attack bonus without confusion. Though it's easier to use it on a starter with Thief. Thief their item, since most starters have Miracle Berry, curing confusion.

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Automaton
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posted 01-05-2001 12:21 AM      Profile for Automaton   Author's Homepage   Email Automaton   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Berserk Gene is an attachable item that functions identically to a poor man's Thick Club, only any pokemon can hold it. The Pokemon that holds it is permanenly confused while in battle. The real question is, if you switch the Pokemon out, (Through BP or otherwise) and back in again, will it reactivate? If so, will it's activation negate any other Atk bonuses it's acquired?

Does it really disappear? If so, then that would explain what happened when I sharked in Mewtwo... The Berserk Gene activated, but when I cought him, it was gone. I was wondering why...

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"Well, Hiro, time to probe the bush. Let's get this party started."-Ronfar, Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete

[This message has been edited by Automaton (edited 01-05-2001).]


From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Divine Wind
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posted 01-05-2001 10:25 PM      Profile for Divine Wind   Author's Homepage   Email Divine Wind   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It does. It disappears when the pokemon comes out for the first time, NOT after the battle ends, like most people say. So it is gone after the battle starts and the Gened Pokemon comes out. If he switches out, the Gene is gone, so when he switches in, it's gone. No one has answered my question yet... Can it be Baton Passed? My guess is yes, but I may be wrong.

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Thom Burr
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posted 01-06-2001 12:01 AM      Profile for Thom Burr   Email Thom Burr   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Wind:
It does. It disappears when the pokemon comes out for the first time, NOT after the battle ends, like most people say. So it is gone after the battle starts and the Gened Pokemon comes out. If he switches out, the Gene is gone, so when he switches in, it's gone. No one has answered my question yet... Can it be Baton Passed? My guess is yes, but I may be wrong.


Random thoughts...

Berzerk Gene looks suspiciously like Swagger to me. Both raise attack, both confuse.

Has anyone here tried Baton Passing Swagger? At least a couple BPers can learn it, and it a TM, so this could be easily tested. (Sadly, I don't at the moment have a BPer, but I'll soon remedy that.) Somehow I get the sneaky feeling that both the boosted Attack AND the Confusion travel to the recipient pokemon. I vaguely recall several posts on AGNP that reported negative effects/conditions being transfered by BP, but that was when I didn't know what BP was, so I didn't read them thoroughly.

BPing Berzerk Gene looks as plausble as BPing Swagger, and the latter looks VERY plausible. Whether or not Confusion is transfered by BP, Berzerk Gene merely seems to save a turn in a Swagger+BP strategy. The question is (assuming Confusion is transfered): do you go for the sure thing and use Bitter Berry before you BP and transfer in a pokemon with a MiracleBerry (or whatever) OR do you risk it and BP on the first turn with a poke holding Bitter Berry. I'd go with the former--assuming the BPer can survive that long.

Soon I will test this. But I suspect someone already has the answer and can spare me the duplicated effor.

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Divine Wind
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posted 01-06-2001 12:25 AM      Profile for Divine Wind   Author's Homepage   Email Divine Wind   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Swagger confuses the OTHER pokemon, not yours. They both greatly raise the attack of the pokemon they're used for (Swagger-Other pokemon; Gene-yours). Swagger can be Psyched up, and if it can be Psyched Up it can be Passed, so Swagger's attack raise can be passed. But Swagger is an attack, while Bezerk Gene is an item. and Status effects are NOT passed, only stat changes, like attack, defense, special, speed, etc. This also counts if they were lowered, I think.

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Thom Burr
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posted 01-06-2001 12:48 AM      Profile for Thom Burr   Email Thom Burr   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Wind:
Swagger confuses the OTHER pokemon, not yours. They both greatly raise the attack of the pokemon they're used for (Swagger-Other pokemon; Gene-yours)...

So, doesn't Bezerk Gene look very much like a self-inflicted Swagger? Sorry if I wasn't clear.

By the way, if Mean Look can BP, then I'm sure Swagger AND Berzerk Gene can.

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Divine Wind
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posted 01-06-2001 01:46 AM      Profile for Divine Wind   Author's Homepage   Email Divine Wind   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The only thing that makes me unsure is that it's an item, unlike an attack. Mean Look, Swagger, and the other stat increasers are attacks, and Bezerk Gene is an item. I'm not sure if the effects of an item will be passed on, but if it is, confusion isn't passed on for sure.

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Automaton
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posted 01-06-2001 04:27 AM      Profile for Automaton   Author's Homepage   Email Automaton   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm too lazy to shark it up and test tonight, (It's 1:30 on the west coast right now) but I'll get around to it in the morning. It looks to be highly plausible to me, though.

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"Well, Hiro, time to probe the bush. Let's get this party started."-Ronfar, Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete


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abz1986
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posted 01-06-2001 07:31 PM      Profile for abz1986   Author's Homepage   Email abz1986   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would assume it can be BPed... because Berserk Gene raises your Attack stats just like if you used a swords dance(they both say "POKEMON's attack greatly rose" (or something like that). I doubt the game can tell if the attack boost was raised by berserk gene or an item.

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waruimewtwo
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posted 01-06-2001 08:46 PM      Profile for waruimewtwo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If you get swaggered, can you BP to something else? I assume that if that works, then you would be able to BP the Berserk Gene.

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*HeRaCr0sS*
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posted 01-07-2001 06:05 PM      Profile for *HeRaCr0sS*     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Trial 1:
A wild Rattata appeared! (lvl 11)
Go Charmander!(freshly traded from Yellow, lvl 10)
Rattata used Quick Attack!
Charmander used Scratch! Roughly, 1/3 of Rattata's life is taken away.
Rattata used Tail Whip!
Charmander used Scratch! Rattata has slightly more than 1/3 of his life left.
I run away.
Trial 2:
A wild Rattata appeared! (lvl 11)
Go Eevee!
Berserk Gene activated! Attack went way up! Eevee is confused!
Rattata used Tackle!
Eevee is confused. Eevee used Baton Pass(sharked) to Charmander.
Charmander rids itself of confusion(it was freshly traded and had a Bitter Berry attached. Obviously, confusion is infact BP'ed.)
Rattata used Tail Whip.
Charmander used Scratch. About 1/3 life is lost.
Rattata used Quick Attack.
Charmander used Scratch. Rattata has only a sliver of life left. Less than with Trial 1.

For some reason, in both trials, the first Scratch seemed to do about the same damage, but the second Scratch in Trial 2 did much more damage than the 2nd Scratch in Trial 1. I would've liked to test a little more on the damage of the first attack after a BP'ed Berserk Gene attack, but I started fighting Drowzee, and they kept putting my Eevee to sleep. And it seemed to get harder and harder to find more lvl 11 Rattata. I'll test again later.

Conclusions:
BP does BP Berserk Gene's Attack, but also its confusion.
The recipient of a BP'ed Berserk Gene needs a Bitter Berry.
It seems that the raised Attack may not take effect on the first turn(I'll have to look more into that later).

A light bulb popped in my head. A Dragonite with an attached Berserk Gene would be powerful, and with Safeguard, it could possibly null the effects of Berserk Gene's confusion. I decided to test many different possibilities with BG and Safeguard.

Results:
SG after BG is activated - Confusion still present.
BP the effects of BG to a PKMN. BP recipient then uses SG. - Confusion still present.
BP a SG onto a PKMN with BG attached. - Confusion still present.

Conclusion:
Safeguard does not seem to protect you from Berserk Gene's confusion in any way.

Too bad. These results got me thinkin' about the Outrage/Safeguard combo so I tested that, too. I found that using Safeguard before Outrage prevents Outrage's confusion, but using Safeguard after Outrage's confusion does not cure you of confusion.

Final Conclusion on Safeguard:
Safeguard does not cure confusion like some people think. However, Safeguard prevents confusion unless the confusion is caused by the Berserk Gene(possibly Swagger, too, I'll have to check that out).

I hope I cleared some things up =).

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Quik PokéFunnies! Topic: Idiot's Guide to TPM
"Jolteon- TWave, TBolt, Roar, Double team @Miracle Seed" - Scizor007
HyA_DEATH_DBS's Quadruple(or is it more?) Posting
"yo people, i have a question to ask you. How do you know when you've encountered a shiny pokemon??? the reason i ask this is because i think my damn game is defective and came with no shiny pokemon." - evil_trainer
*TPMers* I'm not mocking you. This is just for a harmless laugh. =)

[This message has been edited by *HeRaCr0sS* (edited 01-07-2001).]

[This message has been edited by *HeRaCr0sS* (edited 01-07-2001).]


From: Sexyville | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr.E
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posted 01-07-2001 07:39 PM      Profile for Mr.E     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Every single time my Starmie confused Lance's Dragonite and it used a Safeguard, it became unconfused on the next turn, every single time...at least 10 times...

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From: Munchkin Land, Oz | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Thom Burr
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posted 01-07-2001 10:13 PM      Profile for Thom Burr   Email Thom Burr   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks and kudos go to HeRaCrOsS for mostly clearing up the mystery. My question--is Baton Pass invulnerable to or unaffected by confusion? I would guess not. Perhaps using a Bitter Berry before the BP might be a more reliable strategy? Then you could attach an item of your choice (instead of Bitter Berry) to the incoming pokemon.

Now we know why there's basically only one Berzerk Gene in every game and why it can only be used once. It's too powerful. This actually looks like a solid, maybe-even-foolproof BP strategy.

By the way, I just read that the Gene "raises attack by two levels"-- would this be equivalent to one Sword Dance or two? I'm guessing two--otherwise the Gene is only useful when immediately BPing to a poke with Bitter Berry as a first move, and even then, it would only work 50% of the time, and "save" (by "save" I mean not having to actually spend a turn Sword Dancing) just one turn. Useful in Stadium battles against the AI, but maybe not in real life. If the Gene is equal to two Dances, then one has the option of the BPing while confused (and if it works, saving 2 turns), or cure confusion and then BP (much more reliably saving one turn).

For that matter, is raising attack by two levels equal to doubling it, or not? How does the whole stat enhancement/degredation "level" thing work when BPing, anyway?

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Automaton
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posted 01-07-2001 10:30 PM      Profile for Automaton   Author's Homepage   Email Automaton   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's how Meditate works;

100%, (Without bonuses)
150% 1 level
200% 2 levels
250% 3 levels
300% 4 levels
350% 5 levels
400% 6 levels

Here's how Swords Dance works;

100% (Without bonuses)
200% 2 levels
300% 4 levels
400% 6 levels

So you see, the Berserk Gene is like a free swords dance. And I believe that it would be very useful in a baton chain;

Girafarig;
@Berserk Gene
-Agility
-Amnesia
-Baton Pass
-Rest

Mime;
@Bitter Berry, (You do not waste a turn to use Berries)
-Substitute
-Barrier
-Baton Pass
-Rest

This way, you don't have to use the uber-targetted-for-evisceration Scizor. You activate the BG, pass the first turn to Mime, (who'll be cured of the Confusion on contact) power up, then pass back to the now unconfused Girafarig, have him power up, and you're set to pass to your sweeper, and you've freed up four slots to have a team with, because your entire chain only occupies two slots on your team. And you have Substitute backup...

Throw a Machamp with Substitute in the last slot and you have an awesome 3 on 3 team. So am I the only one freaking out at the possibilities here?

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"Well, Hiro, time to probe the bush. Let's get this party started."-Ronfar, Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete

[This message has been edited by Automaton (edited 01-07-2001).]


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Divine Wind
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posted 01-08-2001 12:10 AM      Profile for Divine Wind   Author's Homepage   Email Divine Wind   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A Girafarig w/ Bezerk Gene could pass 3 stats at once, and still have one offense/defensive attack this way.. WAY too powerful. It would work extremely well if Girafarig knew Rest. Use Rest first turn, you get rid of confusion. Then when he wakes up, Agility and Amnesia once (or maybe twice) and Pass, and you have a pokemon with improved Special Defense, Speed, and Attack. A Machamp would work extremely well with that, and you'd free up 1 extra slot on your team. The first slot could be used by a shuffler of some sort, or some sort of disruption poke, such as Murkrow or Jolteon. Once they're disrupted and/or have status effects, bring out Girafarig, let him do his stuff, then pass to Machamp to clean up the mess.

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Automaton
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posted 01-08-2001 12:27 AM      Profile for Automaton   Author's Homepage   Email Automaton   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Wind:
A Girafarig w/ Bezerk Gene could pass 3 stats at once, and still have one offense/defensive attack this way.. WAY too powerful. It would work extremely well if Girafarig knew Rest. Use Rest first turn, you get rid of confusion. Then when he wakes up, Agility and Amnesia once (or maybe twice) and Pass, and you have a pokemon with improved Special Defense, Speed, and Attack. A Machamp would work extremely well with that, and you'd free up 1 extra slot on your team. The first slot could be used by a shuffler of some sort, or some sort of disruption poke, such as Murkrow or Jolteon. Once they're disrupted and/or have status effects, bring out Girafarig, let him do his stuff, then pass to Machamp to clean up the mess.


I agree. This mechanic is almost a blasphemy of the game balance. Baton Pass was only originally concieved on the notion of being able to only have four moves available for use at any one time, the Berserk Gene makes it more like 5. However, running the full defensive gamut between Mime and Girafarig, (Moose and Squirrel) to include Substitute, and having Sub on the sweeper would be far more stable than leaving the Girafarig snoozing without any serious protection. Keep in mind that Mime is the only Pokemon in the game that can legally have both Substitute and Baton Pass, which in my mind makes him essential to any dedicated baton strategy, even if it's only two pokemon long.

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"Well, Hiro, time to probe the bush. Let's get this party started."-Ronfar, Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete


From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Thom Burr
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posted 01-08-2001 03:11 AM      Profile for Thom Burr   Email Thom Burr   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Automaton:
Here's how Meditate works;

100%, (Without bonuses)
150% 1 level
200% 2 levels
250% 3 levels
300% 4 levels
350% 5 levels
400% 6 levels

Here's how Swords Dance works;

100% (Without bonuses)
200% 2 levels
300% 4 levels
400% 6 levels

So you see, the Berserk Gene is like a free swords dance...

<snip>

So am I the only one freaking out at the possibilities here?


Yeah, I guess after all the excitement, and if all your info is right, you might be. I'm pretty disappointed. All one free Swords Dance plus Confusion does is give you a 50% chance of BPing to a poke with a Bitter Berry. If you're playing the Stadium AI (assuming it doesn't permanently use up items), this is great. Just restart till you win the odds.

Otherwise, the only use for the Gene is for a Baton Passer that can't learn Sword Dance. Disappointing.

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*HeRaCr0sS*
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posted 01-08-2001 04:50 PM      Profile for *HeRaCr0sS*     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My fav's off of a chain BP are probably

Alakazam/Mewtwo:
Psychic
Icepunch/beam
Recover
Thunderpunch/bolt/Seismic Toss
>>Miracle Berry

Super duper Special Sweepers.

Snorlax:
Rock Slide
Earthquake
Return/Shadowball
Rest
>>Mint Berry

Physical sweeper.

Ooo.. I'm also fond of Tangela

Growth
Giga Drain
Ice Power
Substitute
>>Mystery Berry

BTW, Mr. E, I was testing all of these possibilities directly prior to this post. I guess each time the Drag's confusion wore off, I dunno, but for me, Safeguard never cured confusion in both of my Outrage and Berserk Gene tests.

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Quik PokéFunnies! Topic: Idiot's Guide to TPM
"Jolteon- TWave, TBolt, Roar, Double team @Miracle Seed" - Scizor007
HyA_DEATH_DBS's Quadruple(or is it more?) Posting
"yo people, i have a question to ask you. How do you know when you've encountered a shiny pokemon??? the reason i ask this is because i think my damn game is defective and came with no shiny pokemon." - evil_trainer
*TPMers* I'm not mocking you. This is just for a harmless laugh. =)

[This message has been edited by *HeRaCr0sS* (edited 01-08-2001).]

[This message has been edited by *HeRaCr0sS* (edited 01-08-2001).]


From: Sexyville | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
White Cat
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posted 01-08-2001 05:33 PM      Profile for White Cat   Author's Homepage   Email White Cat      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Did anyone try using Safeguard, then switching/BPing to a Pokemon with Beserk Gene? Would that stop the new Pokemon from getting confused?

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From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
*HeRaCr0sS*
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posted 01-08-2001 05:55 PM      Profile for *HeRaCr0sS*     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yea, I did.

BP a SG onto a PKMN with BG attached. - Confusion still present.

I assumed a BP would have the same properties, if not more than just a regular switch so I didn't bother with a switch.

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Quik PokéFunnies! Topic: Idiot's Guide to TPM
"Jolteon- TWave, TBolt, Roar, Double team @Miracle Seed" - Scizor007
HyA_DEATH_DBS's Quadruple(or is it more?) Posting
"yo people, i have a question to ask you. How do you know when you've encountered a shiny pokemon??? the reason i ask this is because i think my damn game is defective and came with no shiny pokemon." - evil_trainer
*TPMers* I'm not mocking you. This is just for a harmless laugh. =)


From: Sexyville | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ravashack
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posted 01-09-2001 05:42 AM      Profile for Ravashack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Wind:
It would work extremely well if Girafarig knew Rest. Use Rest first turn, you get rid of confusion.

Rest doesn't get rid of confusion. Otherwise Ash's Snorlax wouldn't have gotten confused and hit itself while Snoring after I hit it with a Confuse Ray before it rested...

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kikered
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posted 01-09-2001 09:20 PM      Profile for kikered   Email kikered   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
1. Yes, Baton Pass does give confusion to the recipient. Ask Biffster about his Ho-oh for more info.

2. Confusion not cured by Rest. Ask TeeJay.

3. If you're going to use a Mr. Mime in your BP chain, then Maybe u should have Meditate on it to avoid the confusion factor.
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[This message has been edited by kikered (edited 01-09-2001).]


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*HeRaCr0sS*
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posted 01-10-2001 04:11 PM      Profile for *HeRaCr0sS*     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by kikered:
3. If you're going to use a Mr. Mime in your BP chain, then Maybe u should have Meditate on it to avoid the confusion factor.

Meditate!? You don't wanna raise your attack when confused. What's your logic behind this?

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Quik PokéFunnies! Topic: Idiot's Guide to TPM
"Jolteon- TWave, TBolt, Roar, Double team @Miracle Seed" - Scizor007
HyA_DEATH_DBS's Quadruple(or is it more?) Posting
"yo people, i have a question to ask you. How do you know when you've encountered a shiny pokemon??? the reason i ask this is because i think my damn game is defective and came with no shiny pokemon." - evil_trainer
*TPMers* I'm not mocking you. This is just for a harmless laugh. =)


From: Sexyville | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Automaton
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posted 01-10-2001 11:40 PM      Profile for Automaton   Author's Homepage   Email Automaton   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Thom Burr:

...The only use for the Gene is for a Baton Passer that can't learn Sword Dance. Disappointing.



The whole point of this is to have a two Pokemon Baton Chain. It's so that you can pass one Swords dance to a Pokemon that can but up a protective Sub, and start putting up Barriers, then pass back to the Girafarig and have him implement the full battery of Amnesias. The point is that you can have four open slots on your team for backers, paralyzers, sweepers, whatever the fuck you want, because you don't need Scyther/Scizor as part of the chain. Hell, starting with Scizor nowadays is tantamount to Fire Blast baiting, and little else. In the end, the need to have Swords Dance in the chain was it's weakest link, and eliminating that link for a 50% chance at having a three-turn chain is a decent tradeoff, for all the Fire Blasts you're seeing on starters everywhere...

See my point now?

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"Well, Hiro, time to probe the bush. Let's get this party started."-Ronfar, Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete


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