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Author Topic: Possible theory of Focus Energy in the Game Boy
JHExeggutor
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posted 06-26-2000 05:05 PM      Profile for JHExeggutor   Author's Homepage   Email JHExeggutor   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
AH has found that using Focus Energy on the GB actually lowers the probability of obtaining a critical hit, and not raising it like in Stadium. Here's my spin on the situation. It may have been set like that, so that say, if a Scyther uses Swords Dance, then Slash, a critical hit cancels the Dance for the duration of that turn. So, If Scyther uses Focus Energy, then Swords Dance, it will have a better chance of getting more damage inflicted, because the Critical has been cancelled for the Pokémon's duration of the match.

Well? How's that sound?

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ZZTRaider
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posted 06-26-2000 05:13 PM      Profile for ZZTRaider   Email ZZTRaider   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Probably not. I'd say it was a programming error. But, that is a way you can use that to your advantage.

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From: A Long, Long Time Ago; In A Galaxy Far, Far Away | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
KeroKato
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posted 06-26-2000 06:18 PM      Profile for KeroKato   Author's Homepage   Email KeroKato   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Uh, then you could use an attack that wasn't Slash, like Body Slam, and reap more benefits. Slash is only useful if you want the crit chance.
Focus Energy is definately an error, although you did find a rather nice way to exploit it.

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Reality's End
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From: I dunno, somewhere | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 06-26-2000 07:31 PM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think that instead of multiplying by 4, it divided by 4. Or something like that.

Wintermute went over the data once and it seemed to be just a simple mathematical error.

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From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Peelium
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posted 06-27-2000 03:10 PM      Profile for Peelium   Email Peelium   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But, JHExeggutor, if that was the way Focus Energy should have worked, why did they fix it in Stadium?

I think it was a programming error.

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magmar5
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posted 07-03-2000 06:44 PM      Profile for magmar5   Author's Homepage   Email magmar5   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
no, It's probably an error. but use it to your advantage

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From: new jersey | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Givera
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posted 07-03-2000 06:50 PM      Profile for Givera   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's pretty obvious what happened... they just made a mistake and either multiplied/divided the wrong part by 4 or multiplied/divided where they should have done the opposite...
It wasn't on purpose to lower CH's...
-Givera

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From: Plano, Tx | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
mewtwo's fortress
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posted 07-03-2000 11:03 PM      Profile for mewtwo's fortress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
prob. a programming error

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From: the cold, dark depths of mewtwo's fortess | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 07-09-2000 03:16 PM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sigh.

magmar5, I blasted your sig because it's too long. You should be able to compress the info in the old one into a few lines, but I'm not going to do it for you.

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From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
KeroKato
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posted 07-12-2000 09:49 PM      Profile for KeroKato   Author's Homepage   Email KeroKato   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Magmar5 is from the PokeMasters *shuddering* Have you ever seen what most of their sigs look like? They are pages long! They are multiple times the lengths of their longest posts! They include their team on every version of the game (R/B/Y) and then what they want their G/S team to be, a list of frickin' incompetent clubs, and a couple of other teams just to waste space. Oy, I can't stand the Pokemasters, expect for thier link submital thing. One-hundred and one hits have come to my site from them so far! Keep shining, you crazy diamond!

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From: I dunno, somewhere | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Peelium
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posted 07-13-2000 03:42 PM      Profile for Peelium   Email Peelium   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is Pokemasters the one where there's a black background with white text *shudders* and where they also include images of all pokemon on their team, with a good few more, just as spares?

Or am I thinking of somewhere else entirely?

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From: Edinburgh, UK | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
White Cat
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posted 07-13-2000 05:59 PM      Profile for White Cat   Author's Homepage   Email White Cat      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That sounds like RPGamer too...
From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
KeroKato
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posted 07-19-2000 03:04 AM      Profile for KeroKato   Author's Homepage   Email KeroKato   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
While on the subject of CH's, does anyone know what the percentage of Critical Hit's is after using Focus Energy in Stadium? I know Azure doesn't have an exact number yet, but can anyone ballpark it for me?

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From: I dunno, somewhere | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
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posted 07-19-2000 05:44 PM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think it depends on the Speed of your Pokemon. Multiplies your base chance by 4, or something like that.

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From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
GolemKong
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posted 07-19-2000 08:05 PM      Profile for GolemKong   Author's Homepage   Email GolemKong   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by KeroKato:
can anyone ballpark it for me?

This thread should do it: http://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/azure/forum/tuff/Forum1/HTML/000120.html


The.. Hypothesis.. I think that's the word I'm looking for.. is that it is increased by 4 times.

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[This message has been edited by GolemKong (edited 07-19-2000).]


From: Ontario! | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
KeroKato
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posted 07-19-2000 08:25 PM      Profile for KeroKato   Author's Homepage   Email KeroKato   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Now, you say Base speed. I'm not to clear on stat lingo. Does that mean the unadjusted speed of a Pokemon or the value that all Pokemon of a species share to determine their stats?

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From: I dunno, somewhere | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
GolemKong
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posted 07-19-2000 09:09 PM      Profile for GolemKong   Author's Homepage   Email GolemKong   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not quite sure what you mean... I'm fairly sure that Base Speed is referring to the Base Stat for Speed... so, all Pokemon of the same species have the same CH chance.. Eg:

Bulbasaur
Base Stats:
HP: 45
STR: 49
DEF: 49
SPD: 45
SPC: 65

So, for Bulbasaur:
Normal CH rate:
(65 / 2) / 256
= Around 8.79%

Frequently Critical Hitting CH move rate:
(65 x 4) / 256
= Around 70.31%


Altho it isn't really necessary to calculate any of that.. there was a link to a complete listing of every poke's CH chance in that thread... it's here: http://pub2.ezboard.com/fprojectmetronomepokmonvideogames.showMessage?topicID=6 75.topic&index=1

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"This is a forum for dorks. We're proud of that fact."
-cfalcon

[This message has been edited by GolemKong (edited 07-19-2000).]


From: Ontario! | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
dagr8ione
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posted 07-22-2000 01:43 AM           Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
why would you want to do that anyway? slash w/o a CH is a 70 base right? body slam would do better....

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Farting Nudist
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posted 07-27-2000 07:53 PM      Profile for Continue   Email Continue   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A little long, but...

quote:
Originally posted by GolemKong:
Not quite sure what you mean... I'm fairly sure that Base Speed is referring to the Base Stat for Speed... so, all Pokemon of the same species have the same CH chance.. Eg:

Bulbasaur
Base Stats:
HP: 45
STR: 49
DEF: 49
[b]SPD: 45

SPC: 65

So, for Bulbasaur:
Normal CH rate:
(65 / 2) / 256
= Around 8.79%

Frequently Critical Hitting CH move rate:
(65 x 4) / 256
= Around 70.31%


Altho it isn't really necessary to calculate any of that.. there was a link to a complete listing of every poke's CH chance in that thread... it's here: http://pub2.ezboard.com/fprojectmetronomepokmonvideogames.showMessage?topicID=6 75.topic&index=1
[/B]


Just going to make a couple of corrections here, no harm intended.

First off, those calculations quoted above aren't quite right. If you run those numbers, they don't match those percentages. The only way I could think of that you could get those percentages is if you took them from the P:M which is linked to in the thread for the link that you posted.

The second one is that the values in the P:M post there appear to be off. I only checked on values that I had already calculated for previous research, but those values don't match using Wintermute's CH formulas. In fact, for the ones that I checked, the base rates are all off by 10%. I can't understand how that could happen.

The third thing is the part that actually offers any real contribution to this topic. That would be the FH-influenced CH rate for Stadium. Shortly after Stadium came out, I offered to help Wintermute with the testing for FE in Stadium. While I didn't run as many trials as he typically runs (only 1600 for me), Stadium just can't be tested as easily due to not being able to speed it up. While I collected the data and shared it with Wintermute, I never got around to figuring out a formula for the boost.

I say I didn't figure out a formula for the boost because the CH boost is not a single value, it is dependent upon the Base Speed of the pokemon.

It is, in fact, inversely-proportional to the base speed. In case these is actually someone out there reading this who doesn't know what that means(at this site, I hope not): The higher the pokemon's base speed, the lower the boost given to CH rate.

The boost that I determined with Wintermute's CH formulas ranged from 2.125 to 3.3. However, there was a strange pattern in some of the collected data. The boost multiplier for a high CH move was different from a normal move (on the same pokemon), but the high CH move did not have a 99.6% CH rate (as would be expected of that kind of difference).

There was something else strange that I noted when I initially sent the data to Wintermute. When I ran the original calculations to determine the base CH rate for the pokemon being tested, it was late and I wasn't thinking straight. I screwed up the formulas, but the results were interesting. With the screwed-up results, the boost instead varied between 4 and 6 and the boost between normal and high CH moves (on the same pokemon) turned out to be the same.

So, as a summary:
Using the established CH formula, results showed the boost going from 2.125 to 3.3
Using the screwed up CH formulas, with consistent boost between normal and high CH, it goes from 4 to 6.

If anyone wants me to post the data here to look for yourself, just say so.

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From: Boca Raton, FL | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Dragonite21
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posted 07-29-2000 04:33 PM      Profile for Dragonite21     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
right:
say you're using scyther as a swift dancer. you've managed to pull off three swords dances, and you're about to start swifting. what you do NOT want is a critical hit from your swift, as that will ignore all the dances. which is why focus energy might be handy for GB battles.

of course, that method gets screwed in stadium....

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"Whoever wins, our battle does not end. The loser is freed from the battlefield, but the winner must remain there. And the survivor must live his life as a warrior until he dies."


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Blitzzzzzzz
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posted 07-30-2000 11:19 PM      Profile for Blitzzzzzzz   Email Blitzzzzzzz   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
hey don't diss TPM, acutally i mod there. 6 lines isn't that long really...geez, smilies are just kinda of fun to use...oh well, two different baords, taht's all.

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From: CA, USA | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
ThomasTR
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posted 08-06-2000 11:45 AM      Profile for ThomasTR     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, but considering scyther can't even learn body slam slash is a good choice!

Rhydon can learn surf! Have a good laugh, we did!

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Rolken
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posted 08-06-2000 10:04 PM      Profile for Rolken   Author's Homepage   Email Rolken   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Blitzzzzzzz:
hey don't diss TPM, acutally i mod there.

Why not? Most of what's been said is the truth.

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From: Provo, UT | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Prof. Dasugi
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posted 08-07-2000 06:04 PM      Profile for Prof. Dasugi   Email Prof. Dasugi   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Blitzzzz really showed a good hand for TPM there....
But seriously, I frequent the pokemasters regularly and find it competent - I probably use it around the same frequency as Azure Heights... they are good at different things, like Snorlax and Mewtwo...
TPM is the best 'news 'n' stuff' pokemon site on the web, IMHO...

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