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Author Topic: 00ber discussion.
SDShamshel
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posted 08-04-2003 10:42 PM      Profile for SDShamshel   Email SDShamshel   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So how powerful are the 00bers of RuSa, really?

Most people are ranking Kyogre above the others, but something seems off about that. Kyogre is a one-trick pony, and it feels like that should be stopping it more than anything else.

Groudon I feel people are undererstimating.

I've used Deoxys, it is a sweeping beast.

Feel free to discuss all 00bers, including the old school.

From: Tokyo-3 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
dAyWaLkEr
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posted 08-04-2003 11:01 PM      Profile for dAyWaLkEr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
kyogre is a strong one-trick pony
instant rd + STAB + full hp water spout = pain beyond belief
he gets even nastier with calm mind and ice beam

groudon is okay but he's everywhere. instand SD but he's a ground type. the only other physical attacking move i would consider for him is brick break
i dunno about him being a sunnybeamer tho.

slaking is a monster but if you have a poke with protect you can predict slaking's move and screw him over royally. it's just really ugly when slaking comes through and Hyper Beam's a poke to hell

more later, but i wanna see wat others say

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absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence

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TeLeFonE
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posted 08-05-2003 12:25 AM      Profile for TeLeFonE   Email TeLeFonE   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Random ramblings:

Kyogre isn't that bad. Water Pulse gets shot after Kyogre takes some hits, so anybody going that route loses power while you bash away at the HP. It has a weak defense when no EPs are put into it, so the common Zangoose/Slaking can dent it extremely well, for example. Surf would be the other option then, but look for a counter.

Ludicolo is a damn good one for both Groudon and Kyogre, as I have seen Fanha point out. It abuses Kyogre's Drizzle and is 4x resistant to water attacks. At the same time, it resists Quake and can use Rain Dance when Groudon is out to douse its Fire Blast/Eruption and put a handle on Solarbeam. All that, and Rain Dance Ludicolo is good when not fighting those two. Gasp. If people used Ubers regularly, Ludicolo would come up more often, IMO.

I also think that the Kyogre and Groudon counter each other if played correctly. It would be interesting to see two good players go head to head with teams that had Groudon in one and Kyogre in the other.

Groudon is indeed underated. Its Trait protects it from water attacks, it has a 150 base attack + quake + stab, and Eruption/Fire Blast covers ice and grass pokemon. What's not to like?

Rayquaza is not a problem pokemon, either. Think about it. Its Trait is not that useful, considering it doesn't get rid of Rain Dance and such, just ignores it for Rayquaza only. I can see the uber attack/special attack ratings doing it justice, but maxing those leaves it open to, again, a fast pokemon with great attacking ability like Zangoose, Slaking, or Kazam. One Ice Beam/Punch will do it in easily.

The 3 ubers do not get Recover, they only get Rest. Sleep leaves them open to assult/setup for the two turns.

All of them don't have "great speed" considering the Effort Points system cuts that down if you want defense. If you put points into speed, well the defenses obviously go down then. Like I've been saying, the fast and hard assult by the ubers only lasts a few turns because other pokemon can beat them in that aspect.

Deoxys looks really good. Like a Kazam/Zangoose with huge speed and attacking/special attacking ability. Looks like a nice sweeper/oober killer. :0

Slaking is not cheap. It died after the first week on RSbot considering everyone was like: put protect on everything and all is good. It's the perfect Slaking counter.

More as I think of it.

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fuck this username is gay

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dAyWaLkEr
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posted 08-05-2003 12:46 AM      Profile for dAyWaLkEr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
it's true that water spout does suck the more you get injured, so that's prolly why ppl use surf.

kyogre and groudon would make an okay match, cept kyogre's STAB attack is SE against groudon (and not the opposite). thus groudon has to rely on a non-STAB'ed solarbeam for damage.

perhaps Game Freak wanted a counter to the oobers since they realized that lugia, m2 and the like rocked so much with recover. sleeptalking kyogre could be fun tho, water spout then gain back hp.

deoxys is an awesome sweeper but lacks the nice hp ... jirachi seems better to me. it has that neat psycho boost attack that's like overheat, but it kinda lacks the SE types that overheat carries.

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absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence

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TeLeFonE
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posted 08-05-2003 02:52 AM      Profile for TeLeFonE   Email TeLeFonE   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A Deoxys with Solarbeam can OHKO Groudon. I would assume the similar would go for Kyogre with Thunder. Deoxys died before it got the chance to use it. :/

Max Special Attack. Just wow. It's got immense power right there.

I didn't imply that Groudon stay in against Kyogre, just simply a wise switch in/prediction against say Thunder. Sunny Day comes up and Groudon then pulls out again. Kyogre has a bit more of an advantage in that it can switch into Groudon with the whole SE threat and such. But still.. interesting.

[ 08-05-2003, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: TeLeFonE ]

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fuck this username is gay

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LanderZRPG
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posted 08-05-2003 09:13 AM      Profile for LanderZRPG   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Biggest difference between Kyogre and Groudon:

Groudon is weak to Ice/Grass/Water. All Special-stat moves. unfortunately, his huge Defense is in, well, Defense, pure and physical. Any of his weaknesses slaughters him.

Kyogre, at least, is weak to Grass/Electric, but it has something like 140 Base Special Defense, so even they do damage only equal to a physical move on it, which isn't insanely high. Since its Spec-Def is something like doubled to its normal Def, it's like it is removing its weaknesses, and everything damages it 'normally'.

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From what we've learned, it seems like you'd prefer girls dressed in ant costumes or something... -Kazuki (Regarding tl;dr)

Owner of the Power Advantage DBZ RPG
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From: High Prairie, AB, Canada | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
dAyWaLkEr
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posted 08-05-2003 02:33 PM      Profile for dAyWaLkEr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
true, and a kyogre with calm mind makes him a superpower

sorta like curse + snorlax, calm mind makes him pretty damn cheap. counterable, but still a bitch to fight.

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absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence

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Turbo X
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posted 08-05-2003 11:41 PM      Profile for Turbo X     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Seems like their answer to 00bers is to just put more 00bers into the game. Back in RBY, the birds all had definite weaknesses, and quite a few ways to exploit them. OK, M2 was a bitch to counter. but still, they fixed that in GSC by introducing the SpcDef stat and killing M2s off a bit, and Amnesia only raising the SpcDef stat as well. But right now it seems "hmmm, we have an 00ber here that's pretty damn strong...I know, lets create an even more powerful 00ber to take care of it." So we've gotten to the point where there's like 5-6 strong 00bers in RuSa (I would consider the legendary birds weak 00bers compared to the ones out now)

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I mean, goldfish lamp wallpaper skeleton in my Bavarian Star or what? Flowers mirror computer Smurfs every time Moses flies playing cards in or around Paris.

From: N-town, PA, U.S. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tenshi no Myu
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posted 08-06-2003 01:31 AM      Profile for Tenshi no Myu   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, that idea works pretty well if you're playing by the 'only one oober per team' clause that a lot of people do.

I think all-oober teams would be an interesting Cup idea, just allow people to use any oobers they like and battle them against other oobers. There's certainly enough of them now...

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It hung on with Focus Band!

From: Seattle Below | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
dAyWaLkEr
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posted 08-06-2003 04:32 PM      Profile for dAyWaLkEr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
although i think they should fix the movepools. the regi's all learn practically the same moves, so you always end up seeing toxic/explosion/sandstorm somehow fit into the m-set.

but it's certainly cheesy how they've added 3 oobers, and several more monster pokes into RuSa, Rayquaza doesn't even fit very well into the storyline (tho pokemon was never about plot was it?). an oober tourney would only bring about a slight change in m-sets, i think it's standards for most of'em

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absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence

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137
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posted 08-06-2003 05:30 PM      Profile for 137   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rayquaza doesn't fit into the storyline "very well"? He's in some tower. Nobody even talks about him. Even the Latis are just seen flying around. There's no real story elements for those guys, either.
After some consideration, it has come to my attention that I have no fitting conclusion to this post.

From: Space. Like, outer space. | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tenshi no Myu
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posted 08-06-2003 07:30 PM      Profile for Tenshi no Myu   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, in the fifth movie it explains what Latias and Latios are, and where they come from (in the Japanese version, anyway, who knows what crap they made up for the dub).

Though the R/S plot must be sometime before the film, since Latios, er, 'passes on' in the movie as far as I can tell...

Rayquaza will probably get a movie story too, since Ubers so far have all been for movie-fodder, rather than for gameplay. Though using an oober can get you through the Elite Four quicker, which makes earning money a bit easier.

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It hung on with Focus Band!

From: Seattle Below | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
dAyWaLkEr
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posted 08-06-2003 11:03 PM      Profile for dAyWaLkEr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
meh, i just don't like it how every friggin oober knows english and can telepathically communicate. if rayquaza talks it's gonna be pretty damned stupid, more stupid than that yadoking having no purpose in poke 2000.

neways ... back to oober talk. i use a deoxys to help level up my lower lvl pokes (dunno if exp share still fucks up the stats tho) and destroy everything in sight.

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absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence

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Tenshi no Myu
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posted 08-07-2003 12:09 AM      Profile for Tenshi no Myu   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Latios & Latias don't talk. [Smile]

Exp. Share Distributes Effort points equally, as well as Exp. If you keep track of EVs it shouldn't damage your pokes.

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It hung on with Focus Band!

From: Seattle Below | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
dAyWaLkEr
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posted 08-07-2003 03:12 PM      Profile for dAyWaLkEr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
that's good news. if arti/zappy/moltres can't talk than those things shouldn't

and thx for the help on exp share, now i'll know how to raise my pokes better.

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absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence

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TIDUSBLITZABESX
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posted 08-07-2003 11:50 PM      Profile for TIDUSBLITZABESX   Author's Homepage   Email TIDUSBLITZABESX   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't use Exp share until I max out my EVs with the Macho Brace. I have two of them to use from having both versions. Then when I can't collect anymore Evs for my pokemon, I just keep fighting the Reporters with amulet coin and the other having Exp Share.

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UIRULOSER, LANDERZDUMBASS, THAT STUPID DONALD KID, WHITE CAT CROSS DRESSER, AND PIKA("UHHH IF YOU BRING YOUR GAMESHARK WITH YOU NINTENDO MIGHT KNOW YOU HAVE HACKED YOUR GAME") ALL DECIDE TO GO AND GANG EACHOTHER W/URILOSER'S ANNOYING ELEPHANT BLOW UP DOLL

From: RI | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged


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