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Author
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Topic: Lanturn vs. Kyogre Question
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DocMui
Farting Nudist
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posted 04-24-2003 12:56 PM
Just wondering exactly how long the following theoretical Lanturn could last against Kyogre (level 100, personality data not included--assume stalemate personalities for both):
Lanturn @ Leftovers
Surf
Confuse Ray
Thunder Wave
Thunder
Kyogre @ Chesto Berry
Surf
Calm Mind
Ice Beam
Rest
I personally think that, with Lanturn's less-than-stellar speed, it wouldn't survive much more than one Surf from Kyogre. Perhaps a Quick Claw could give Lanturn a chance to make up the speed difference, and then keep it up with Thunder Wave? Either that, or breeding Amnesia for Lanturn might increase its lifespan by a tad. I personally would love to see Kyogre being fried continuously by Thunder, but admittedly, the movesets aren't all that great.
A slight divergence from the topic: Who is the preferred Kyogre-killer nowadays?
--DocMui
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To claim mastery is to imply that there is nothing else to learn. Thus, I shall never be a Pokemon Master, since there's *always* something to learn.
From: Hoffman Estates, IL USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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SDShamshel
Farting Nudist
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posted 04-25-2003 12:38 AM
I'd think Kyogre would rather pack Thunder in order to waste water types, but eh.
As strong as Kyogre is, its Surfs will only be dealing halved damage (or .75 or whatever), enough for Lanturn to survive 3 or so surfs anyway. Lanturn has impressive HP too. It's only Surf, after all. Hydro Pump would be the nasty one. If it calm minds the turn afterwards, it can eat a Thunder Wave, and it if wants to rest then you can start blasting it or roar it out with a different Pokemon.
Now Sheer Cold Kyogre, that's something you have to watch out for.
Also, if you're REALLY equipping Lanturn to take out Kyogre, Lanturn breeds for Amnesia.
Wailord breeds for Fissure, and can take a beating, especially from the water types.
Shedinja is immune to nearly everything Kyogre learns. The only thing that'll harm it is Ancientpower, Hail, Rock Tomb, and Sandstorm, and it's unlikely you'll see ANY of those moves on it.
[ 04-25-2003, 12:44 AM: Message edited by: SDShamshel ]
From: Tokyo-3 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Mr.E
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posted 04-25-2003 02:54 AM
Kyogre can also Toxic (like everything else), and Hidden Power if you wanna include it. Not that it matters. Besides, Shedinja would stall at best, it doesn't actually kill much of anything though.
As for on-hand, Lanturn is about the best guy I could think of for taking on Kyogre. Surf, assuming anything but max SA+Personality as well as mega-low Lanturn SD+HP, is a 4HKO. Hydro Pump and Water Spout are more dangerous, but Water Spout's only gonna be a one-time thing and Pump has low PP. Any FPs or confusion hits lets Lanturn survive even longer as well as a free Tbolt/Thunder shot.
Ludicolo is nice as well. It has 299 max SD, good HP, and is 4x resistant to water. Depending on trait, it's either quicker than Kyogre or recovers HP in Kyogre's Drizzle. It can also be bred for Leech Seed (and Synthesis). Dunno what you'd really do against it for kills, though. Grass attacks are much weaker than Electric attacks...
Kingdra is 4x resistant to Water, as well, and has genrally good Defenses. If you have a Dragon Dance-based moveset, Kingdra could probably beat Kyogre, but otherwise you'll just be stalling until it Calm Minds up and beats you.
Swampert can learn Mirror Coat, and Endeavor. Both can do good damage, but Endeavor won't actually kill... Argh I am bored of this. =P
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From: Munchkin Land, Oz | Registered: Jul 2000
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Charmeleon42
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posted 04-25-2003 03:34 AM
Shedinja would stall at best, it doesn't actually kill much of anything though.
With the benefit of Personality, his attack at max DV can be 306.
That's not too bad, and it's probably going to be the stat your going to personality-upping-wise prefer on him anyway. His Speed and S.Att will only be boosted up to 196 and 174 respectively, Defense and S.Defense... dont even kid.
Also, Kyogre's will most likely have their Stat Exp. mainly in both Special stats (as it would more commonly fear electric and grass). Maybe some points into Defense, but not the majority, and certainly not enough to make it a good stat even if it had all 252 Stat. Exp in it. Even then its a 248-279 stat, and with points not neccessarily in HP, it'll do a nice percentage from a STABed Silver Wind from a 272-306 Shedinja.
EDIT: Or Shadow Ball. STAB and more base damage, now that I think of it.
Shedinja could do decent damage... not a bad option if he wasn't fragile to anything else the other person you were battling were to swap in.
[ 04-25-2003, 03:38 AM: Message edited by: Charmeleon42 ]
From: Mountain Dew Land | Registered: Oct 2000
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Uiru
Sketch Molester
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posted 04-25-2003 06:40 AM
Latios Soul Dew Calm Mind Thunderbolt GG Kyogre.
Latios is the one Legendary in the game you can rely on to sack every other Legendary in the game.
~Uiru
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From: the floating castle of Newfoundland | Registered: May 2000
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Zeni
Orangutan Spouse
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posted 04-25-2003 06:50 AM
Shedinja can also learn Swords Dance. A stabbed Shadowball (after pumping attack) would do tons of damage.
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From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2002
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Mr.E
Farting Nudist
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posted 04-25-2003 07:38 AM
And the Latis are debatably even more 00ber and lame than Kyogre, Uiru. Don't even kid me.
Anyway, as for Shedinja, it wouldn't be a bad option, except for the little fact that Spikes is very common and Shedinja is instantly killed by them. =\
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From: Munchkin Land, Oz | Registered: Jul 2000
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Dark_Herakurosu
Farting Nudist
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posted 04-27-2003 01:12 AM
Ice Beam > Latios.
And I doubt anyone using Kyogre will have the patience for Spikes anyway. They'd also risk having Spikes put on them. Even so, if someone knew of the whole Shedonja problem, I'd expect them to always put Spikes down. Another solution to the Kyogre problem is any status problem. Since most Kyogres won't be packing Rest, that is. Toxic, but then you'd have to find some way to survive the turns required. I just wish the amn leviathan had a gender, so it could be Attracted for a fair kill. Meh. I may need some help from Ahab here. (Speaking of which, elf-destruction looks like a good anti-Kyogre/Latios prospect.)
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veloS
8=D~~O:
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posted 05-08-2003 08:27 AM
Best Ky00ber killer: Slaking.
One Hyper beam with choice band really fucks him up. You won't even need that band, if you trained for EV's or have the right personality.
Plus, he can take a lot of shit from ky00ber before fainting.
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From: Amsterdam | Registered: Feb 2002
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DocMui
Farting Nudist
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posted 05-09-2003 01:27 PM
I submit to those of the board my refined potential Kyogre-killing Lanturn, nicknamed "Thorgetful."
Lanturn @ Leftovers
Personality: Anything that boosts SA or SD
Volt Absorb (in case Kyogre strikes first with Thunder)
Surf
Amnesia
Thunder Wave
Thunder
Strategy: Take the first hit, then paralyze with Thunder Wave. Strike with Thunder and build up with Amnesia when necessary to stay ahead of Kyogre's Calm Mind.
Thanks to all of you for your suggestions. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
veloS: Yes, Slaking would really put the hurt on Kyogre, but as I understand it, Choice Band doesn't allow you to use any other moves. If Kyogre decides to keep on the offensive instead of resting/using Calm Mind, things could end up bad. Also, Hyper Beam is 90% accurate, which means that one miss could give Kyogre the opportunity to wipe the floor with you. Just IMHO, of course.
--DocMui
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To claim mastery is to imply that there is nothing else to learn. Thus, I shall never be a Pokemon Master, since there's *always* something to learn.
From: Hoffman Estates, IL USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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DrFuko
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posted 05-10-2003 01:39 AM
Hell yeah, my Slaking maxed at 432 Att. Scary, aint it?
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From: Monterrey, Mexico | Registered: Sep 2001
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Mr.E
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posted 05-10-2003 04:15 AM
Not as skary as those Skarmory everyone and their brother use.
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From: Munchkin Land, Oz | Registered: Jul 2000
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Donald
Bob the Builder
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posted 05-10-2003 12:03 PM
Scary thought: Slaking with Hyper Beam, Hydro Cannon (lol rock wut), Blast Burn (die skarmo), and a filler.
It's got the Special Attack to pull it off.
From: In your girl's panties | Registered: Feb 2001
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Charmeleon42
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posted 05-10-2003 02:49 PM
Slaking vs. Anything with protect and half a brain = no more Slaking.
From: Mountain Dew Land | Registered: Oct 2000
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veloS
8=D~~O:
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posted 05-11-2003 06:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Charmeleon42:
Slaking vs. Anything with protect and half a brain = no more Slaking.
True. But for n00bs, the battle tower and more n00bs, it's fun.
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From: Amsterdam | Registered: Feb 2002
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Thomaz
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posted 05-14-2003 04:35 AM
How can you teach your pokemon Blastburn and Hydro Cannon? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Nothing.
From: Netherlands | Registered: Apr 2003
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MYK
Orangutan Spouse
Member # 2568
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posted 05-14-2003 05:18 AM
Thomaz - You can't.
As for Slaking, he has shit Spec. Def, so gg Slaking v. Kyogre.
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From: Perth, Western Australia | Registered: Jan 2002
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veloS
8=D~~O:
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posted 05-14-2003 05:54 AM
True, but Slaking's faster. That, with a good hyper beam = no more ky00ber.
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From: Amsterdam | Registered: Feb 2002
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137
Whiner
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posted 06-03-2003 01:27 AM
Either I'm illiterate, or my Nintendo Power guide is missing something (which wouldn't surprise me, as it doesn't include Soul Dew either). What in hell is Blast Burn?
From: Space. Like, outer space. | Registered: Jan 2001
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Donald
Bob the Builder
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posted 06-03-2003 09:22 AM
Blast Burn, Hydro Cannon, and Frenzy Plant are three moves that aren't attainable in RS but are in the coding.
They're Fire, Water, and Grass Hyper Beams (150 power, 90 acc, 5 PP, recharge).
From: In your girl's panties | Registered: Feb 2001
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TIDUSBLITZABESX
Farting Nudist
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posted 06-03-2003 02:33 PM
Since I have Ruby I never used KYOGRE before. You can always use a Slaking (which has the best attack power in the game!) with Hyper Beam, Focus Punch, Rest, and Sleep talk. He also has good all around stats too. Surf could put Lanturn to rest in one shot, reason being is You know KYOGRE's ability Drizzle that ups his water power for one thing! THen you have the high special attack with Kyogre. Better yet you can also teach Kyogre Thunder and it would hit with 100% accurate with the ability drizzle. It is because Drizzle is a power up move like Rainy Day. So with all this in affect I think it is very possible to wipe out a Lanturn in one shot with surf. Just the combonation is there. That is what makes Kyogre almost the best in the game for you Lucky Saphire players! You can get him before you fight the elite four too!
One more thing you can try powerful Dragon Type such as Salamence, RayQuaza, or Latias/Latios. They might be able to take him out??
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From: RI | Registered: May 2003
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Dark_Herakurosu
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posted 06-03-2003 08:27 PM
Notice Ice Beam. Ice is super-effective on Dragons, or so I've heard ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) . Also, if we didn't take into consideration Drizzle and Thunder, why do you think we'd say Kyogre is an oober? In addition, Kyogre's Thunder can't do much against Lanturn's Volt Absorb ability.
[ 06-03-2003, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: Dark_Herakurosu ]
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dAyWaLkEr
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posted 06-04-2003 10:01 PM
i think i'd rather lose a gengar and destiny bond the bastard into oblivion.
or somethin w/ encore and DB (forgot if Gar can grab the clapper)
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DocMui
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posted 06-05-2003 10:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by TIDUSBLITZABESX:
Surf could put Lanturn to rest in one shot, reason being is You know KYOGRE's ability Drizzle that ups his water power for one thing! THen you have the high special attack with Kyogre. Better yet you can also teach Kyogre Thunder and it would hit with 100% accurate with the ability drizzle. It is because Drizzle is a power up move like Rainy Day. So with all this in affect I think it is very possible to wipe out a Lanturn in one shot with surf. Just the combonation is there.
Hm, let's do some math, shall we?
Kyogre using Surf has these multipliers:
1.5 STAB (Same Type Attack Bonus) x 2.0 with Drizzle active = 3.0 times damage.
However, since Lanturn is a Water-type, and Water is resistant to the same type of attacks, that means that whatever damage done to it is halved.
So, in the end, you just have the damage caused from STAB, barring a lucky critical hit. Since Lanturn's Special Defense is not inconsiderable, it can survive a few hits, long enough to paralyze Kyogre and tip the odds more in the former's favor.
BTW, I've been thinking about replacing Surf on Thorgetful with Confuse Ray, making it a strictly parafuse critter. After all, if I'm making a strictly anti-Kyogre Lanturn, it really doesn't make sense to hit water with water.
Of course, if Kyogre is sporting a Lum berry, things might get a tad more complex. Then again, that just means that Lanturn would have to take another hit before paralyzing Kyogre. Again, barring a critical hit, I think Lanturn can handle it.
--DocMui (who's wondering whether or not there should be a separate thread to discuss potential Kyogre killers)
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To claim mastery is to imply that there is nothing else to learn. Thus, I shall never be a Pokemon Master, since there's *always* something to learn.
From: Hoffman Estates, IL USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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White Cat
Nobody knows why I'm an admin.
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posted 06-05-2003 05:57 PM
1.5 STAB (Same Type Attack Bonus) x 2.0 with Drizzle active = 3.0 times damage.
Drizzle (Rain Dance) gives a 1.5x boost, not 2x.
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From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000
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DocMui
Farting Nudist
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posted 06-06-2003 05:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by White Cat:
1.5 STAB (Same Type Attack Bonus) x 2.0 with Drizzle active = 3.0 times damage.
Drizzle (Rain Dance) gives a 1.5x boost, not 2x.
I stand corrected.
So, that would be a total potential damage of 2.25 times normal. However, cut that in half, and we've got 1.125 times normal...a touch better than slapping Mystic Water on a critter that doesn't have STAB for water moves.
--DocMui
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To claim mastery is to imply that there is nothing else to learn. Thus, I shall never be a Pokemon Master, since there's *always* something to learn.
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Rolken
Vulcan
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posted 06-07-2003 11:39 AM
Unless they only apply to the original damage instead of compounding, in which case it'd be 2x.
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From: Provo, UT | Registered: Feb 2000
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White Cat
Nobody knows why I'm an admin.
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posted 06-08-2003 06:27 PM
They definitely compound, unless they made the BDF way more complicated in RS. ![[Trash Bear]](graemlins/trashbear.gif)
From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000
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Face
I invented cancer.
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posted 10-11-2006 06:35 PM
Lanturn vs Kyogre is unfair I tell ya!
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Weezing!
From: Hackensack, nj | Registered: Jun 2001
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Dredite
Farting Nudist
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posted 10-13-2006 03:13 PM
Honestly, Lanturn is fairly good at it, but most annoyer sets (T-wave/conf ray) will cause luck to become a pretty large factor, and since you're going after the special stat of the Kyogre, you may have trouble surviving if it manages to get several calm minds off. It'll ignore you and rest to victory at that point.
Also, I concur: If it's JUST for killing Kyogre, it's pointless to have surf... and it's actually not that bad of an idea, I suppose. Lanturn's a decent staller/annoy electric, and people would be very very wary on bringing in a ground against it, expecting the surf. Play to disguise move four until it's too late.
As for Kyogre users, it just depends. Surely ALL of you haven't ignored the UBER cup entirely? ;D I find it amusing to go in and play in the blow shit up league. Although I still use spikes in that.
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Tired of your logical fallacies, because you're an idiot.
From: Santa Cruz, CA | Registered: Feb 2000
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