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» The Azure Heights Forum   » Main Campus   » Oddish Memorial Lecture Hall   » With the posting of this R/S team...I declare that you all look at how much it sucks!

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Author Topic: With the posting of this R/S team...I declare that you all look at how much it sucks!
I M A Pokeprofessional
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posted 12-20-2002 10:32 PM      Profile for I M A Pokeprofessional   Email I M A Pokeprofessional   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Now, after all of these debates, I would like to say one thing. In my opinion, they have not harmed the pokemon community at all. On the contrary, such topics enervated pokemon discussion once again, acting as a second pokemon renaissance (GS being the first).

After lots of time, I have been contemplating an R/S team (386 allowed) which can deal with any and all situations. The types involved in my team creation can defend against OHKOers, as well as any other pokemon seeking to clobber my flanks.
Here it is:

Miltank @Leftovers
+ special defense, - special attack
Heal Bell
Milk Drink
Return/Body Slam
Toxic

Of course, the enabler of my rest bell team. The chief move, my recovery move, and my attacking move are obvious additions to my team. Toxic is simply to shoo Wobby away.

Tyranitar @Leftovers
+ attack, - special attack
Rock Slide
Earthquake
Dragon Soaring
Rest

Indeed, Tyranitar is one sick beast. He can gain speed and power in one single move, igniting a fierce beatdown upon any haplesspokemon foolish enough to stand in his way. In adiion, rock slide can flinch the opponent, as well. Throw in psychic immunity and you have a monster.

Wobbuffet @Leftovers
+ speical defense, - attack
Mirror Coat
Counter
Charm
Encore

He is so much better now, for he leaves psychics and fighters with no hope of survival. Charm can destroy physical attacks, encore is good, and DBond is next to useless, his speed is a bit too low. All round good.

Heracross @Leftovers
+ Special defense, - special attack
Megahorn
Hidden Power (secret)
Build Up
Rest

He can gain power and durability while retaininghis speed, destroy darks and psychics, and he has a characteristic that can make him even more powerful in dire situations. What is not to like about Heracross?

Suicune @Leftovers
+ defense, - attack
Surf
Enlighten
Roar
Rest

Power and defense coupled with a deadly roar, a winning combonation no matter who you are facing. He is my pseudo-hazer who can destroythose pesky rocks, grounds, and physical attackers, as well.

Raikou @Leftovers
+ defense, - attack
Tbolt
Crunch
Enlighten
Rest

He rules! He puts a stopper in ghosts while acting as an electric should act, speedy and powerful. Only grounds can really put a damper on his day.

_____

This team is, of course, the backbone of my final team I will be using on the RSbot. Do not tell me that all of these pokemon are not obtainable, I know. Please give me constructive critism on what you think of the team.

CHALLENGE: Guess the hidden power type on my team!

[ 12-23-2002, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: I M A Pokeprofessional ]

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LanderZRPG
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posted 12-21-2002 10:37 AM      Profile for LanderZRPG   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Remember... without max stats in everything, these pokes won't all rock. No 300 Speed and 300 Defense with 400 HP for Miltank, etc.

- - - - -
From what we've learned, it seems like you'd prefer girls dressed in ant costumes or something... -Kazuki (Regarding tl;dr)

Owner of the Power Advantage DBZ RPG
(www.poweradvantage.net)

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Fluorine
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posted 12-21-2002 11:08 AM      Profile for Fluorine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Why are you guys so mean?

Anyway, you should at least include some information about where you're going to put your effort value and what personality you want.

Miltank gets owned by Gengar, which will be a lot more popular because of its floating leetness.

Wobby is cheap [Frown]

You forgot to mention that Tyranitar has perpetual sandstorm.

Hariteyama doesn't have Curselax's special defense, and is owned by psychics.

What HP are you using? Or do you mean secret power? I would rather use Bittersweet/Bravado, since its power doubles under status effects. Couple that with the attack increase, and you get a winner.

You're building teams in GS style... RS needs a little more info than that :/

Oh, and wrong forum lol.

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JP Nogueira
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posted 12-21-2002 11:21 AM      Profile for JP Nogueira   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rest Bell without Spikes? Are you sure you know the actual metagame? [Razz]

Fluorine is right. There is more about RS you need to know. [Frown] A little research will be welcome. It seems that you're still stuck with the past.

[ 12-21-2002, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: JP Nogueira ]

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----======= (o)
JP Noga
Gym Leader from Brazil

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Dark_Herakurosu
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posted 12-21-2002 12:07 PM      Profile for Dark_Herakurosu   Author's Homepage   Email Dark_Herakurosu   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Milly - Unfortunately, having a Heal Beller as a starter doesn't work well irl. Actually, it doesn't work well anywhere.

T-Tar - Skarm fux0rz this. And seeing as how you have no Fire moves, Skarm is available in RuSa as of its release, and it has the Solid characteristic (prevents OHKOs), it'll become a lot more popular. But otherwise, good.

Wobby - Why Charm? Counter then becomes useless. I'd suggest Splash, in case you Encore a stat-upping move. This (as with all wobbys) is seriously screwed against Ghosts or Darks.

Hera - Lemme guess... HP-Rock? I'd stick with Counter then. Build-Up ups his defense, so he now stands a chance of actually surviving a Drill Peck.

Suicune - Inability to use anything but Water attacks is going to bite you back. I'd stick Mirror Coat on there somewhere, to use when an Elec or Grass comes in before you're ready.

Hariyetama - Hrm... HP-Ghost? Makes sense. But you're going to have some trouble with those pesky Flyers. I'd wait and see if the metagame supports more Reflecters and Light Screeners, and then choose Combo or Cross Chop. But don't forget; Revenge is also a good move choice, especially for a tank.

3x Flying weakness
3x Fighting weakness
2x Grass weakness

Your team is ripped apart by Flyers, Steels, and pseudohazers. You don't have a single Special attacking move besides Surf. You've repeated nearly the same set over & over. That is all.

- - - - -
There is more money being spent on breast implants and Viagra today than on Alzheimer's research. This means that by 2040, there should be a large elderly population with perky boobs, huge erections, and absolutely no recollection of what to do with them.

From: the wreckage of Indianapolis | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
I M A Pokeprofessional
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posted 12-21-2002 12:41 PM      Profile for I M A Pokeprofessional   Email I M A Pokeprofessional   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hm, my flying weakness is 2x, my fighting weakness is 2x, so I am still strong in that area. And fighting moves do put up a fight against steels. And pseudohazers are often weak pokemon which are susceptable to Wobby and raw power. But still, thank you for the constructive criticism, I have noted your suggestion. But Suiocune can still take little damage from electricity (about 37% from Zappy) after an enlighten. And do not worry, Miltank is not my starter, my order is completely random XP.

And Brain, I do not know my effort values yet, still thinking. But I am currently thinking ^^.

JP, being stuck in the past is not a problem, for I disdain spikes with rest bell, not needed at all. A perpetual sandstorm is good enough to cover that.

And CG and TGhost, go to hell. My topic is called "sarcasm". Have to be a real prole not to know that.

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LanderZRPG
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posted 12-21-2002 03:06 PM      Profile for LanderZRPG   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have some somewhat-good news.

For those of you who don't like taking the time to figure out all of your poke's stats in Ru/Sa, and for those who live under the delusion that all the old standards will rock as badly as they used to, I've made an Ru/Sa stat calculator.

Input all the Base Stats, DVs, Effort Values and personalities, ensuring they're within the limits (And it checks for the 510 Total Effort value thing [Razz] ), and it spits out the stats you'd have, and the max stats, given the base stat and running it through with max everything-else, that poke could have.

http://www.angelfire.com/games2/LanderZ/rusacalcs.html

Fun, no? Probably a little too tedious for mass use, but if someone could make a bot that allows you to input pokes at your leisure, with moves at your leisure, these stats could be used, so we could have 'working' R/S bots long before Fanha can get everything programmed in (Since that'll take forever; no offense to Fanha, but there is a LOT to try and program into his bots), so we could still battle with 'legal' teams, and such.

I also put money on the fact that Fanha won't use the 510 Effort value thing, or anything-but-max-stats, again....

(Posting this in a few places, especially with the Ru/Sa teams, so people can see it [Smile] )

- - - - -
From what we've learned, it seems like you'd prefer girls dressed in ant costumes or something... -Kazuki (Regarding tl;dr)

Owner of the Power Advantage DBZ RPG
(www.poweradvantage.net)

From: High Prairie, AB, Canada | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dark_Herakurosu
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posted 12-21-2002 07:38 PM      Profile for Dark_Herakurosu   Author's Homepage   Email Dark_Herakurosu   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Also, I think IMAP's a bit confused. T-Tar + Milly = 3x weakness. Hera + Hariyetama = 3x weakness. But I did notice that this is just a GSC team with a few RS tweaks. Bah, who cares? Unless someone finds a way from Houen to Johto/Kanto, your team is meaningless.

- - - - -
There is more money being spent on breast implants and Viagra today than on Alzheimer's research. This means that by 2040, there should be a large elderly population with perky boobs, huge erections, and absolutely no recollection of what to do with them.

From: the wreckage of Indianapolis | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
I M A Pokeprofessional
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posted 12-21-2002 11:08 PM      Profile for I M A Pokeprofessional   Email I M A Pokeprofessional   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
D_H kindly read Fanha's bot argument on why 386 pokemon will be on it. After doing so, you will recognize that my team is playable.

Oh, and by your rating sysytem, yes, 3x weakness, but why keep out Miltank or Ttar against a fighting pokemon?

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Ancient Egyptian Cat-Gonk
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posted 12-22-2002 12:35 AM      Profile for Ancient Egyptian Cat-Gonk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Fluorine:
Wobby is cheap

I never thought I'd live to see the day..then again, I think I said that about Marowak as well.

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http://www.livejournal.com/users/jetblackvalias

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JP Nogueira
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posted 12-22-2002 10:41 AM      Profile for JP Nogueira   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
JP, being stuck in the past is not a problem, for I disdain spikes with rest bell, not needed at all. A perpetual sandstorm is good enough to cover that.
Hmm, I see. But Spikes improved the RB strat, since it is commom to start PP & Switch war. Like some people like to say, this is the final form of Rest Bell.

And I think T-tar's Sandstorm will cause you some trouble. Even in a Rest Bell team.

- - - - -
----======= (o)
JP Noga
Gym Leader from Brazil

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Fluorine
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posted 12-22-2002 11:35 AM      Profile for Fluorine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
*ponders a BP chain leading to a sealed/rest Muk*

Hey, it could work!

Besides, I would like to point out to all the mean 202 whores out there (because they ARE mean, and don't seem to understand ANYTHING to the 386 argument, no matter how many times we try to enforce the idea that this is on the BOT) that 386 teams are for use on the BOT, and that we don't give a SHIT about the Game Boy game if it doesn't match what WE want. I'm tired of people referring to the fucking game boy game when it's OBVIOUS that we don't give a FUCK about it. That is all. I repeated myself, but I think it's worth it, and it feels better.

Oh, and LanderZ, why don't you just post a topic instead of replying to all existing ones? Anyhow, I'm pretty damned sure that Fanha will include effort values and personalities, with defaults being "effort equally repartited" and a neutral personality. If not, I'll make sure that he will. And I don't think RSBot will take "forever" to make. All the data is there, and all what's left to do is basically interpret it, and make an interface.

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I M A Pokeprofessional
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posted 12-22-2002 12:21 PM      Profile for I M A Pokeprofessional   Email I M A Pokeprofessional   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
IMO, spikes + PP wars ruined the R/S strat, for not only did my win % go up after it became popular, but matches started to last 2 hours. Offense is a big part of rest bell, for defense alone does not win games.

And Brain is right! Go Brain [Smile] !!!

[ 12-22-2002, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: I M A Pokeprofessional ]

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JP Nogueira
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posted 12-23-2002 12:11 PM      Profile for JP Nogueira   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
IMO, spikes + PP wars ruined the R/S strat, (...) matches started to last 2 hours. Offense is a big part of rest bell, for defense alone does not win games.
Hmm... I understand your opinion, but don't agree. Spikes improved it, since there is a strong switch game involved in these battles.

PP Wars came when, in most cases, there were two Rest Bells battling, or a Rest Bell against a team with high resistance. Technically, this a kind of extremely defensive strategy that wins by overwhelming the opponents, either through mental or physical fatigue. People who want to have some fun usually quit before 2 hours. People who want to win, wait.

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----======= (o)
JP Noga
Gym Leader from Brazil

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I M A Pokeprofessional
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posted 12-23-2002 02:33 PM      Profile for I M A Pokeprofessional   Email I M A Pokeprofessional   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
People who want to win take it, not ease it away from the opponent.

The winners are usually the teams who get the most CHes, and the more you hit, the higher the chance of getting CHes.

[ 12-23-2002, 07:58 PM: Message edited by: I M A Pokeprofessional ]

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GP-Chan
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posted 12-23-2002 09:13 PM      Profile for GP-Chan   Email GP-Chan   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i knew you'd resort back to your raikou. good show!

- - - - -
yes, i know i suck.

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infested_grapefruit
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posted 12-24-2002 12:56 AM      Profile for infested_grapefruit   Email infested_grapefruit   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
wow its a R/S team..w/o the R/S *sigh*
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LanderZRPG
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posted 12-24-2002 01:36 AM      Profile for LanderZRPG   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Fluorine:
Besides, I would like to point out to all the mean 202 whores out there (because they ARE mean, and don't seem to understand ANYTHING to the 386 argument, no matter how many times we try to enforce the idea that this is on the BOT) that 386 teams are for use on the BOT, and that we don't give a SHIT about the Game Boy game if it doesn't match what WE want. I'm tired of people referring to the fucking game boy game when it's OBVIOUS that we don't give a FUCK about it. That is all. I repeated myself, but I think it's worth it, and it feels better.


Then please define to me what movesets will be legal and not.

Will Heal Bell + Counter Blissey be legal? Both are moves obtainable by it, but not together by GS. And since it isn't normally found in RS, would it follow GS rules, or RS ones?

Mixing and matching pokes will lead to problems... What about moves completely lost? Whirlpool, for instance. Will this be legal, since it's in GS?

When you claim that all pokes are allowed in RS, then all gloves come off. Are you going to say it's alright to have that Counter + Heal Bell Blissey? Why not, since you're already doing something that requires sharking.

What was holding you back, before, is the key question. A moveset that CANNOT BE OBTAINED would be a common arguement, but since only 202 pokes can be obtained in RS, that doesn't hold, here.

So, throw caution to the wind, and play it as 'If it can learn the move, in any way-shape-or-form, it's fine by me'?

At least playing 202 has some structure....

- - - - -
From what we've learned, it seems like you'd prefer girls dressed in ant costumes or something... -Kazuki (Regarding tl;dr)

Owner of the Power Advantage DBZ RPG
(www.poweradvantage.net)

From: High Prairie, AB, Canada | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
JP Nogueira
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posted 12-24-2002 06:32 AM      Profile for JP Nogueira   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
People who want to win take it, not ease it away from the opponent.
Hum... pokémon is still a game, right? Okay, Counter Strike also is a game, but you don't receive money for playing with pikachus. [Smile]

This would be one of the main reasons someone would wait 2 hours and, after a boring match, say "I win". Money. Or we just have a different idea about having some fun.

quote:
The winners are usually the teams who get the most CHes, and the more you hit, the higher the chance of getting CHes.
Let's use OHKO!! It's more effective ^^ Oh, okay, you're sort of right [Smile]

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----======= (o)
JP Noga
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Fluorine
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posted 12-24-2002 11:30 AM      Profile for Fluorine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Playing 386 doesn't imply that we accept tradeback. Well, I don't. Tradeback wouldn't be fun IMO, and too complicated.

The fact is that most people don't know what they want, and that what they want is always somewhat ambiguous. I mean... they say they want to play 386, with tradeback, but then they won't accept counter+heal bell Blissey, which, I admit, is a contradiction, because they don't explicitely define their position.

Therefore, the rule I'm placing is: everything is allowed as long as 1) you obtain the pokemon legally or 2) you shark the pokemon at level 0 and you raise it legally. In my particular vision, tradeback is excluded. It would "lack structure", as you said, and I feel like it would be totally messed up and unbalanced. It would also give an advantage to old pokemon.

So I'm playing 202 + one minor and very specific case of sharking, and the unobtainable pokemon's learnsets would be their RS natural moves, RS TMs and RS egg moves. The only case of sharking would be to obtain the specie, and it ends there. No more structural problems, and my position is now explicitely defined.

And for the record, if there is tradeback between RBYGSC and RS, I probably won't play it. Old pokemon's move variety would become nauseating, and I'm fed up of RBYGSC movesets ._.

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JP Nogueira
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posted 12-24-2002 12:47 PM      Profile for JP Nogueira   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
or 2) you shark the pokemon at level 0 and you raise it legally.
Are we supposed to believe this?

If I recall correctly, the main reason people use shark is to speed up training process, and that does not include raising pokémon legally (level 0? Good joke!).

"Se é para você fazer alguma coisa, faça bem feito! ", what sounds like "If you have to do something, do it well done!". So, if you are already sharking, please, just do it well done!

[ 12-24-2002, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: JP Nogueira ]

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----======= (o)
JP Noga
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LanderZRPG
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posted 12-24-2002 01:45 PM      Profile for LanderZRPG   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by JP Nogueira:
quote:
or 2) you shark the pokemon at level 0 and you raise it legally.
Are we supposed to believe this?

If I recall correctly, the main reason people use shark is to speed up training process, and that does not include raising pokémon legally (level 0? Good joke!).

"Se é para você fazer alguma coisa, faça bem feito! ", what sounds like "If you have to do something, do it well done!". So, if you are already sharking, please, just do it well done!

He's using it as a figurative saying. If he was to Shark it at level 0, and raise it, that would be what he has. He's simply stating that 'he is "getting" it', then relying upon what is programmed into RS to take over, after that.

Now, something like that really wouldn't be so bad. True, I wouldn't be too pleased about battling it in 202, but it's still better than the above GS team that makes use of a few (Enlighten and Build Up) RS moves.

- - - - -
From what we've learned, it seems like you'd prefer girls dressed in ant costumes or something... -Kazuki (Regarding tl;dr)

Owner of the Power Advantage DBZ RPG
(www.poweradvantage.net)

From: High Prairie, AB, Canada | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
I M A Pokeprofessional
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posted 12-24-2002 02:43 PM      Profile for I M A Pokeprofessional   Email I M A Pokeprofessional   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Heh, this is NOT a debate between 202 and 386, 386 will be on the bot, and, no, R/S will NOT be a major change in the metagame.

This is a 386 team, live with it.

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LanderZRPG
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posted 12-25-2002 12:03 AM      Profile for LanderZRPG   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So if I used the Ice Beam, Counter, Softboiled, Heal Bell Blissey, you'd be fine with it?

[ 12-25-2002, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: LanderZRPG ]

- - - - -
From what we've learned, it seems like you'd prefer girls dressed in ant costumes or something... -Kazuki (Regarding tl;dr)

Owner of the Power Advantage DBZ RPG
(www.poweradvantage.net)

From: High Prairie, AB, Canada | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tghost
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posted 12-25-2002 06:33 AM      Profile for Tghost   Author's Homepage   Email Tghost   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
R/S will NOT be a major change in the metagame.


Maybe not if you play it like GSC. But, R/S has so much more scope. It's like playing GSC like it's RBY - you're not going to get terribly far with a team of the usual RBY suspects versus the usual GSC suspects, unless you start playing them totally different to how they were played in RBY.

But, if you're going to have a 386 team, for god's sake, give Miltank Build-Up. The Cow wants her fucking steriods. Give her them.

When playing 386, give Heracross Rest/Sleep Talk/Megahorn @Silver Powder with Will Power for the characteristic. Just do it. Forget this Build-Up shiznit, it gets you reamed by your weaknesses - just go for the prolonged attacking. If anybody whines about tradeforwards, you'll be able to handle it IMAP - you're good with area of things.

Raikou and Suicune may as well be joined at the hip. Then again, they're just a Blastoise on steroids and an Ampharos with less moves, more speed and Crunch.

There, how's that for no 386/202 debate and constructive critism?

- - - - -
My brain went on vacation and left my pancreas in charge

From: Auckland, New Zealand | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
I M A Pokeprofessional
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posted 12-25-2002 01:05 PM      Profile for I M A Pokeprofessional   Email I M A Pokeprofessional   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tghost, thank you for actual criticism. it will be noted, but I fear the randomness of sleep talk. I have poor sleep talk/paralyzation luck, so I am not sure if I would be willing to place its moves in the bot's/game's hands. But that is my only complaint about that.

And, landerZ, nope, I would not mind if you used that Blissey, not at all. Wobby eats it alive, as does anything with build up/enlighten...Though it does have its uses, which are respectable by my standards. Use it, and few people will call it cheap.

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Tghost
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posted 12-25-2002 05:51 PM      Profile for Tghost   Author's Homepage   Email Tghost   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's the thing about that Heracross - the randomness of it all is decreased. You are only ever going to get Megahorn, or Rest via Sleep Talk. You know which attack you've got a chance of hitting with, and it's not like nobody would jump at the chance of having a Fighting Pokemon that if it missed with DynamicPunch would recover full HP - which is pratically what that Heracross moveset gives. Besides using it in R/S, you get STAB, a 10% boost, a high attack, a personality boost, and then Willpower's boost on the top of a 120 base damage attack. Who needs Build-Up when you can just hit them now, and keep on slagging till you drop?

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My brain went on vacation and left my pancreas in charge

From: Auckland, New Zealand | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
Fluorine
SMELLY BUTT
Member # 2904

Member Rated:
posted 12-26-2002 12:31 PM      Profile for Fluorine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The willpower boost seems to be 1.5x

And... uhh... it seems to remain after the pokemon wakes up... or maybe I messed up with something I shouldn't have messed up with... o_O

Anyway, if GSC allowed sleep talking rest (er, did it?), RS doesn't. When I tried, it gave me a message that looked like "you are already sleeping". No, I don't read japanese, but I noticed a common word between the "you are asleep" message and that one, and the fact that my health was not replenished.

Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged


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