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Author Topic: Sandslash vs. Rhydon
Psybro
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posted 03-21-2001 06:17 PM      Profile for Psybro   Email Psybro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
First of all, let's compare the stats.

Rhydon
Type: Ground/Rock
HP: 413
Attack: 358
Defense: 338
Speed: 178
Special: 188
Average: 295

Sandslash
Type: Ground
HP: 353
Attack: 298
Defense: 318
Speed: 228
Special: 208
Average: 281

Overall winner here is Rhydon, with his superior HP and Attack. The Defense doesn't make all that much of a difference, as neither are likely to run into any physical attackers. Sandslash does have an important advantage in Speed.

Sandslash's main selling points are its pure Ground type and Swords Dance. Due to its lack of a quad-weakness to Grass and Water, it is possible for it to survive a beating from a Surf, and strike back with a Starmie-slaughtering Earthquake. As for Swords Dance, it makes up for the lower attack than Rhydon, and can make for serious sweepage. If you play your cards right, you can get down to Sandslash vs. some of the opponent's paralyzed opponents, and he can own.
Whilst Rhydon has never done anything over than die spectacularly in my PBS experiences, Sandslash has often proved to be the one thing giving me the win.

Movesets:
Standard Rhydon:
Substitute/Rest/Earthquake/Rock Slide
Standard Sandslash:
Swords Dance/Swift/Earthquake/Rock Slide

Let's face it, folks, Sub and Rest on Rhydon are just filler that'll probably never see the light of day. However, Sandslash can not only get its Attack way above Rhydon's after a single Dance, it can also deal with evaders.

If you bring Sandslash in against an Electric type, the opponent will be forced to switch out. This gives Sandy the chance to Dance up, and whatever the opponent brings out next will be having to face 596 Attack Sandslash. If you've already paralyzed or fainted their Water type, this sets the stage for Sandslash to mess up a considerable chunk of their team.

So, in conclusion...Sandslash sneaks, Rhydon saunters.

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From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
goo
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posted 03-21-2001 06:21 PM      Profile for goo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm starting to like sandslash more than rhydon.

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What goes with swass?milce,milce


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Atma
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posted 03-21-2001 07:07 PM      Profile for Atma   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sandslash can't even win a one-one-one with Charizard, and he's *4 weak to Rock Slide.

And how many Surf users do you see? Icebeam and Blizzard are much more common.

Besides, Nidoking beats 'em both.

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From: Cinnabar Isle, Long Island, NY | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Pornbot
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posted 03-21-2001 07:10 PM      Profile for Pornbot   Author's Homepage   Email Pornbot   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sandy's decent, but face it, he'll never be a Rhydon...and when the HELL is a Sandslash gonna get a chance to use SD without getting sent to hell before he can take advantage of it?

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From: Auschwitz | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged
SDShamshel
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posted 03-21-2001 09:13 PM      Profile for SDShamshel   Email SDShamshel   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The key advantage to Rhydon is that it needs virtually no set up. It's just pop it out of the can, and you have fresh ass kicking.

Sandslash has its merits, but should not be compared to Rhydon in this manner, as there is little that can compare to its offensive prowess.

And switching in Sandslash to down a flyer means that it will probably be hit by an incoming Drill Peck or something, and it cannot resist it.

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From: Tokyo-3 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mick_Hale
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posted 03-21-2001 10:39 PM      Profile for Mick_Hale   Email Mick_Hale   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Give me a break. If you pit a sandslash against a rhydon, the chances are that the sandslash will win, simply because of an SDed Earthquake and the chances that Rhydon will have a special attack that could take out a sandslash are near impossible, depending on the stupidity of the trainer.

I know Rhydon isn't the most versatile, but consider this on a paralysis team:
Earthquake/Rock Slide/Fissure/Horn Drill
I've seen it work.
Earthquake/Rock Slide/Submission/Body Slam
This also works.

Let's face it, discussing Rhydon vs. Sandslash is relatively useless as to how everyone is biased and everyone has their own opinion. You won't see me changing my Rhydon for a sandslash anytime soon.

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From: Thornhill, Ontario, Canada | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
SDShamshel
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posted 03-21-2001 10:46 PM      Profile for SDShamshel   Email SDShamshel   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We're not discussing Rhydon vs Sandslash in a one-on-one battle. If that was the case, of course Sandslash would win.

In a one-on-one battle, Beedrill could likely kick the snot out of Exeggutor.

But does that make either Sandslash or Beedrill better? Not necessarily.

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Excel: That's some dirty justice.
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From: Tokyo-3 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Gary Oak
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posted 03-21-2001 11:52 PM      Profile for Gary Oak     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There are many ways to effectively use SD in battle when using Sandslash. I use it EVERY match I play on the pbs. Example:

I start with jynx, most start with alakazam. Jynx gets paralyzed, alakazam falls asleep. I switch in Sandslash. After one SD alakazam is just about always still asleep. Many people don't realize that alakazam is in mortal danger at this point and it gets taken out in one Earthquake, same strategy works well for taking out Chanseys also. Switch Sandslash in on a preparalyzed opponent to get off an SD also, this works really well.

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From: Roselle, Illinois | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
White Cat
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posted 03-24-2001 02:55 AM      Profile for White Cat   Author's Homepage   Email White Cat      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My favourite Sandslash tactic is to have my Alakazam paralyze and use Kinesis a few times, then switch in Sandslash to Dance and Quake the opponent that won't be able to hit it.

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From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Blitzzzzzzz
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posted 03-25-2001 02:56 PM      Profile for Blitzzzzzzz   Email Blitzzzzzzz   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
hrm...course twave doesn't work on a sandslash o_O

there are some surfers now and then, it is a plus for sandslash to be able to live through at least one of them. they both seem kinda weak to me, well at least they dont' last long. so i think it is better to use the one that doesn't need to set up, so it can have time to at least do something. maybe that's why rhydon can be considered the better choice...

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From: CA, USA | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Pokegod
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posted 03-25-2001 06:56 PM      Profile for Pokegod     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My vote goes for sandslash. It may not have the same awesome attack power of rhydon, but the ability to survive a grass or water attack can be invaluable if you use him right. Sandslash is also a better chansey slayer being able to outpace it, whereas Rhydon has to wait for chansey to ice beam it before it gets a shot off (chansey will have ice beam if it actually stays out against rhydon or slash).

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From: Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Yay Porygon
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posted 03-26-2001 01:23 AM      Profile for Yay Porygon   Author's Homepage   Email Yay Porygon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Bah, setup. I don't like setup. I like all-out attack. Kill kill kill. I mean faint. Or maybe kill. Like Sammmy or Sonuis (eeh?) said at one point, paraphrased, "Yes, they die! And when you get into another battle, a new one is born with the same stats and attacks as your old one!" Hm? Get back on track, yes. I like Rhydon. Right straight to putting the smack-down (is that a correct usage of slang?) on the opponent. Plus he's so cute! ^_^ I mean, he can Surf and dance, and he's got a neat horn drill thingy. But I don't use him too often anymore, I use Golem. On my special Team Boom. Since Rhydon doesn't explode. I've never had trouble taking Sandslashes down. I just Surf or Mega Drain them to death. Only rarely have they gotten off a single EQ or Swift or whatever against me. Rhydons pose a problem though...for Team Boom. Stupid Rock-type! Yet cute! Argh!

...

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From: Peregrine Island | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Fish
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posted 03-26-2001 01:57 AM      Profile for Fish     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sandslash vs. Rhydon

Well...Golem.


From: Phoenix, AZ | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
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posted 03-26-2001 04:21 PM      Profile for Psybro   Email Psybro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Yay Porygon:
Right straight to putting the smack-down (is that a correct usage of slang?) on the opponent.


Technically, it's laying the smackdown.

quote:
Originally posted by Fish151PKMN:
Well...Golem.


There's always one, isn't there?
I deliberately made the topic title 'Sandslash vs Rhydon' because I wanted it to be a topic about Sandslash owning Rhydon (or not, as the case may be). I don't want a debate on the best overall Ground type.

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With fucked up me, and fucked up you?
"-Hot Dog, Limp Bizkit
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From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Random Loser
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posted 03-26-2001 06:33 PM      Profile for Random Loser   Email Random Loser   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Psybro:
Let's face it, folks, Sub and Rest on Rhydon are just filler that'll probably never see the light of day.


Just thought i'd point out that, rather than filler, sub is probably rhydon's main selling point. Bring it in against an electric, take the ineffective hit, sub while they're switching, then get in a free quake that'll do a pretty good bit of damage.. 'course i s'pose u could do the same w/ sandslash.. how bout SD, Sub, Quake, and Rock Slide? Just a thought.. and i'll be keeping my rhydon personally..


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[This message has been edited by Random Loser (edited 05-23-1985).]

[This message has been edited by Random Loser (edited 03-26-2001).]


From: Uni of Virginny | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pornbot
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posted 03-26-2001 11:27 PM      Profile for Pornbot   Author's Homepage   Email Pornbot   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rest is the filler...not Sub...

If I had to pick, I'd go with Golem too

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From: Auschwitz | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged
CHaRiZaRd
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posted 04-11-2001 07:13 PM      Profile for CHaRiZaRd   Author's Homepage   Email CHaRiZaRd   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Eesh... Why do you automatically assume that Sandslash can only 'dance?

That is untrue. He doesn't need to be a swift dancer to be good. I whipped up this move set and it works relatively well: Earthquake, Slash, Substitute, Sand Attack. With proper support, it works very well.

My point isn't to brag, but I'm simply adding a new light to the argument of Sandslash's uses. He can danse, but he doesn't need to. In fact, he's not that good of a dancer. He rarely gets a chance to spend that much time setting up.

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Eesh. You frighten me. I have special hours for folks like you. Try coming back at half past never!

[This message has been edited by CHaRiZaRd (edited 04-11-2001).]


From: NJ or DC | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jman
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posted 04-11-2001 07:57 PM      Profile for Jman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've used Sandslash for a long time.

He rules.

My set:

Rock Slide
Earthquake
Slash
Substitute

Sub first, then hit away with whatever's best. of course, your gonna wanna switch out if a grass/water type is in.

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From: da burgh | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
SDShamshel
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posted 04-11-2001 10:19 PM      Profile for SDShamshel   Email SDShamshel   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But with a moveset like that, why not just use Rhydon? If the sub will die to a water or grass attack anyway, it doesn't matter about the X4 weakness. Rhydon's HP allows it to piss of SeiTossers a lot more when subbing, and it has a higher attack rating.

The reason people are comparing Sandslash to Rhydon mostly via Swords Dance is because without it, Rhydon absolutely outclasses Sandslash in the offense department, with the possible exception of not learning Slash.

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Good Excel: The Bullet of Justice will always demolish evil! Remember that!
Excel: That's some dirty justice.
(Weird Anime Excel Saga)

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From: Tokyo-3 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mick_Hale
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posted 04-11-2001 10:53 PM      Profile for Mick_Hale   Email Mick_Hale   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Umm, not having Swords Dance on Sandslash defeats the purpose of using it over Rhydon. Seriously, when it comes down to the line, all that Sandslash has on Rhydon is Slash and Swords, but if you aren't using one or the other or both, Slash is probably better left out for Rhydon.

Which is essentially what SDShamshel said. Well, I do have to agree with the Stoss thing. People tend to forget the incredible power in a maxed out Grep and the main way of killing it being by a Molly. Anything with HP over 400 is a great option for Sub that way.

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From: Thornhill, Ontario, Canada | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
White Cat
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posted 04-12-2001 05:14 AM      Profile for White Cat   Author's Homepage   Email White Cat      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Molly is no good at killing Grep, except to stall it...

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From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
CHaRiZaRd
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posted 04-14-2001 07:45 PM      Profile for CHaRiZaRd   Author's Homepage   Email CHaRiZaRd   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How does not using Swords defeat the purpose of using him? 298 attack is not all that bad. He gets STAB for Earthquake, and Slash is always a critical hit. Swords Dance simply takes too long, and Sandslash will probably never be able to use it. It takes a heckuva lot longer to set that up, rather than one Sub or a Sand Attack.

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From: NJ or DC | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
SDShamshel
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posted 04-14-2001 10:56 PM      Profile for SDShamshel   Email SDShamshel   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Because we're not thinking up good movesets for Sandslash. We're comparing it to Rhydon. And while 298 attack is good, it certainly doesn't compare to Rhydon's monstrous Attack rating. Rhydon certainly has the edge over Sandslash in raw, unaltered offense, so that's why Swords Dance is used in the argument constantly. Sandslash may have Slash to its credit, we've said that already, but without Swords Dance, its Earthquakes and especially its Rock Slides simply don't compare to Rhydon's.

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Good Excel: The Bullet of Justice will always demolish evil! Remember that!
Excel: That's some dirty justice.
(Weird Anime Excel Saga)

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From: Tokyo-3 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
CHaRiZaRd
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posted 04-15-2001 03:04 PM      Profile for CHaRiZaRd   Author's Homepage   Email CHaRiZaRd   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I completely understand your point, but I disagree with "We're not thinking of good move sets for Sandslash..." The move set is part of what makes a Pokemon useful. A Pokemon may be superior in some stats, but that does not necessarily mean it will fare any better in battle. I agree, part of what I am about to say does not have much to do with the arguments of move sets, but it simply provides for more reasons to use Sandslash.

Let's take this battle scene. My opponent has a Jolteon out. I send out Sandslash who absorbs the Jolteon's Thunder Wave. (Keep in mind, this is an example. I know most of you would know better than to be so predictable as to use Thunder Wave, when you know a ground type is lurking about.) Sandslash uses Earthquake as the opponent sends out a Starmie, let's say. Now, this is where Rhydon's superior stats do not mean as much.

Sandslash will Earthquake the incoming Starmie. Sandslash does in fact have the special, and lacks the 4x weakness to water in order to get off another Earthquake, Sand Attack, whatever. In addition, if he, in fact, did keep Swords Dance, he could use it as the switch occurs, and then use Earthquake.

Rhydon hits harder, but Sandslash has more cons that some of you fail to acknowledge in this argument.

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Eesh. You frighten me. I have special hours for folks like you. Try coming back at half past never!

[This message has been edited by CHaRiZaRd (edited 04-15-2001).]


From: NJ or DC | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
alienx
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posted 04-15-2001 03:12 PM      Profile for alienx   Author's Homepage   Email alienx   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Let's just say this: sandslash is the better of the two. SD and Slash can work many 1-hit wonders, and Thunder Wave cannot affect him. That hurts a lot of people. And, because he does not have a 4x weakness, he can last longer on the battlefield. Sandslash also has pretty good speed, while Rhydon's sucks. When you have such a huge speed advantage, a higher attack almost means nothing.
Don't listen to this if you don't want to, as this is my first post.

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From: The State of Confusion | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
DarkLickitung
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posted 04-15-2001 03:32 PM      Profile for DarkLickitung   Email DarkLickitung   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
aleinx: SD and Slash can work many 1-hit wonders

Especially when they don't work together.


From: See You Auntie. | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
alienx
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posted 04-15-2001 06:20 PM      Profile for alienx   Author's Homepage   Email alienx   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, really? Why wouldn't they work together?

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From: The State of Confusion | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
CHaRiZaRd
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posted 04-15-2001 06:46 PM      Profile for CHaRiZaRd   Author's Homepage   Email CHaRiZaRd   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Critical Hits ignore status changers. In this case, since slash always CH's, it will ignore the use of Swords Dance. Geez, you'd think people would have gotten this straight by now... No need to get worked up.

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From: NJ or DC | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
alienx
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posted 04-15-2001 07:19 PM      Profile for alienx   Author's Homepage   Email alienx   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
:O Oh... oops.

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From: The State of Confusion | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
SDShamshel
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posted 04-15-2001 08:45 PM      Profile for SDShamshel   Email SDShamshel   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Reducing Sandslash's HP via SUbstitute is setting it up just as much to be taken down by two attacks it is weak to anyway. Whereas Rhydon has the choice of being slain in two hits via Substitute, or one hit without it, Sandslash is pretty much doomed to being taken out in two Surfs or Blizzards. Substitute is only speeding up the situation.

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Good Excel: The Bullet of Justice will always demolish evil! Remember that!
Excel: That's some dirty justice.
(Weird Anime Excel Saga)

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From: Tokyo-3 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 04-17-2001 04:27 AM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
sand/
From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
White Cat
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posted 04-17-2001 08:07 PM      Profile for White Cat   Author's Homepage   Email White Cat      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sub is only good on Sandslash if you're going up against Zapdos, since a Drill Peck normally does slightly less damage than the amount needed to break it.

I guess you could kinda use it in the same way that Rhydon does (Sub on the switch, then pick your attack based on what you're facing), but Sandslash's lack of Rock STAB limits its usefulness.

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-- Bishop Fred Henry


From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
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posted 04-17-2001 10:22 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, Rock Slide is really only useful if you have a Dance up against a flyer, or a 4x advantage going on... otherwise, you are better off with Slash (140 on a critical, basicall).

The Sandslash I use(d):

E-Quake
RockSlide
Slash
S-Dance

Basically, he goes like this: you don't switch him in against a drill peck or anything. You throw him in against an electric, usually, and often Sword's Dance instead of the E-Quake, depending on the situation (you don't do it if some kind of 1 hit Killa is going to surface). Once you've danced, you can inflict major damage with STAB Quake, or Rock Slide the flyers.

OR

If he just needs to be around for a round or two, he can lay into the enemy with Slash. Slash doesn't need set up (in fact, it doesn't work with Dance, as everyone knows), cuts through defensive crap, and is strong with his reasonable attack.

Sandslash is slow and has a low special. For this reason he mostly sat next to Mewtwo, trying to handle the electrics that came his way.

Not having substitute makes this a different monster than Rhydon, or a Sand/ with sub, but I found him very useful as a general backup monster.

Anyway, Rhydon's super weakness to two elements turned me off to him. His lack of Sword's Dance isn't really a big turn off: Sandslash's ability to learn it (and sometimes use it: you can't *count* on it) is a nice bonus, though.

The STAB with Rockslide is impressive, but the fact is that the move is 90% accurate and often missing with it can prove deadly to you. The thing I always liked about Sandslash was that he was consistent, and whatever my opponent did, I would usually get off one attack, sometimes two. If I danced and Quaked, then died, that was fine- it's the same as Quaking twice.

Rhydon just didn't seem consistent enough.

Sub helps that a lot, though.

Ultimately, I'm more comfortable playing Sandslash: when he hits, I can point to the point on the opponent's lifebar where the dropping line will stop.

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-cfalcon

"Does the phrase "Hotmail Session Ended" sound vulgar to either of you?"
-pkthunder


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jman
Farting Nudist
Member # 618

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posted 04-19-2001 05:01 PM      Profile for Jman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think y'all are missing the point on this whole subject.

Just use who you like. Doesn't matter. Hell, use Geodude if its your favorite. Its a ton more fun. I love Sandshrew/Slash. So, I use Sandslash.

Er... *steps down off podium*

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Uno, Dos, Zesty!!
http://www.angelfire.com/pa4/jman/home1.html


From: da burgh | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Night
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posted 04-26-2001 12:59 PM      Profile for Night     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

well, i agree with charizard that sandy is mostly not going to get the dance up. so i made my set which is.. rather peculiar, but it works. eq, rock slide, slash, body slam. you bring him in against any electric save raichu, and you body slam first. hopefully, you'll get a paraslam. that means you're certain to get 2 hits, maybe even 3. but then again, you could also put body slam on rhydon. i don't know what set you should use with it, but theoretically it could do the same as sandy with a stronger attack.

but then again, i use the sub-trap golem or nidoking. so my views could be considered invalid. if only rhydon could get explosion.. i would use him without a second thought..

-Night

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You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe.
You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland, and I show you just how deep the rabbit hole goes.


From: Oklahoma | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
cfalcon
OLDNBLD
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posted 04-26-2001 04:47 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"Using your favorite" wasn't the point of the thread. Any thread whose first line is "First of all, let's compare the stats." isn't about favorites. My choice of ground guy was based on a few things at the time, and one of them was the desire have a turn agains those that have a water or a grass attack, even when leading. Not tops in the stat department, the average number of turns survived really made a difference in my book.

It isn't a fair comparision, because their use isn't identical, and it should also include other viable critters, like Golem, who has some strong tricks in his favor (Explosion is very nice).

Sandslash, in my experience, got the dance off pretty often. Usually it never made a difference, as I would usually dance when they had an electric out (what were they gonna do?) or something, and watch as they switched to something that would own me. I would take a hit, survive, and return fire with Quake or something. The net effect is if I had Quaked both times.

But I found that the chances of me dying in that first hit were really low, whereas the chances of me getting in a second hit weren't bad at all, and then I had a nice chunk of turn advantage and a potential problem for them if all they had was an electric left or something.

Anyway, I'm not saying he's better than Rhydon: I was trying to give reasons why Sandslash is very useful. Rhydon's usefulness is a little better known, I think.

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-cfalcon

"Does the phrase "Hotmail Session Ended" sound vulgar to either of you?"
-pkthunder


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Psybro
Half Psyduck. Half Slowbro. All cop.
Member # 290

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posted 04-26-2001 05:40 PM      Profile for Psybro   Email Psybro   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This post was really just my attempt at stopping EVERY single PBS team. I was trying to point out there are equally good, and possibly even better alternatives.
From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Felixthecat
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posted 04-26-2001 10:09 PM      Profile for Felixthecat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
cfacon, your turn-saving example about sword-dancing explains exactly why I think learning SD isn't really a big point in sandslash's favor. If I used a sandslash, I'm not sure I'd even teach it to him.

In your example, you say that you SD on the switch, and you exchange hits with something, usually a starmie or lapras or eggy. So you're down to 20-30 percent health, and they're somewhere around there too, unless it's resistant, like eggs are. So it seems like a trade. But here's a better trade... here's why I like rhydon:

Instead of SDing on the switch, you just EQ. And then nex turn, you can choose to either EQ again or switch out. There's no commitment. Of course, without any 4x weaknesses and decent defensive stats, he's not likely to get OHKOed like rhydon is, and you're practically guarenteed to get off a shot and do the same as two EQ's. But why not just do two EQ's? so you can be setup for a sweep? A sandslash at 20-30 percent health isn't sweeping anything. They can just put in a kazam or anything with a good spec and speed, and make you switch out or sacrifice him. Why put yourself in this position? Why commit yourself to taking a hit from starmie or lapras or eggy that will essentially remove him from the game, just to do the same ammount of damage you could do in that time anyways, and keep your options open at the same time.

This is why rhydon is so good: he's a hit and run machine. Just pop him in, give em an EQ to think about, and then switch backout. Don't make your ground take a surf. Thy weren't meant for that. Surfs are for chanseys, or starmies, or whatever. Why start setting up a ground when you know there are so many grasses and waters that could rock it?

The real selling point as I see it for sandslash is slash. This is such a good move! It does almost as much as EQ, and you don't have to worry about them switching in an eggy. Also, his speed edges out eggs and chanseys, which is important. Still, if I wanted a speedy ground pokemon with slash, I wouldn't use sandslash...

Sandslash is certainly the most durable ground type, without a second type (rhydon, nidokings) or just down-right poor stats (duggy). But he is still not durable enough to get away with setting up. Mew can do it. Tangela can do it. snorlax, mew2, tobybro, they can do it. But despite sandslash's durability (relative to the other grounds) he still isn't tough enough to make his trademark setup tactics worthwhile. So pardon me if I stick with my rocks.

Felix the cat

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From: Portland, OR / Beloit, WI | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
CHaRiZaRd
Farting Nudist
Member # 994

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posted 04-27-2001 10:28 PM      Profile for CHaRiZaRd   Author's Homepage   Email CHaRiZaRd   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If you are going to use Sandslash, or mostly any other ground type, (I say mostly because those Dugtrio users know better than to give it substitute) an all out attack is not the wisest idea. You should essentially have something to protect you. i.e. Substitute, Sand Attack, etc. (This is mostly in response to Night's post)

If you want to use Swords Dance with your set, and you intend on using PBS, I just whipped this up: Earthquake, Substitute, Swords Dance, Hyper Beam. o.O Not too sure... meh.

However, I'm getting off the topic too much. Psybro said this wasn't the point of the thread, so... um... Yeah.

*runs*

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Eesh. You frighten me. I have special hours for folks like you. Try coming back at half past never!


From: NJ or DC | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged


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