This is topic Twins? in forum Karp Park at The Azure Heights Forum.
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Posted by kristraj (Member # 1360) on 02-04-2003, 04:25 AM:
Come on, vote, u know u want too
Posted by FireBlast (Member # 2466) on 02-04-2003, 06:01 AM:
i don't understand this topic
Posted by IceHawk78 (Member # 1699) on 02-04-2003, 06:44 AM:
Identical twins *are* essentially clones of each other, in that they have the same DNA. However, both questions would be like waying "if the same parents had kids twice, would they look the same, be the same, etc...?"
And, no, childbirth and having sex doesn't change your DNA, so making babies twice would be the same as four clones, (the guys clones of each other and the girls clones of each other) screwing once. The randomization factor still comes into play.
Now, what I don't know is if (1) it would be possible to genetically engineer a male and a female so that they would have the same DNA, and (2) if this was possible, if their kids would all have the same DNA.
Posted by Donald (Member # 1551) on 02-04-2003, 07:47 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by IceHawk78:
Now, what I don't know is if (1) it would be possible to genetically engineer a male and a female so that they would have the same DNA, and (2) if this was possible, if their kids would all have the same DNA.
Now THAT's inbreeding.
Which is why rednecks + cloning devices or genetic engineering = trouble.
Posted by Mick_Hale (Member # 419) on 02-04-2003, 10:13 AM:
Someone needs to have sexual reproduction explained to them. Shall we start with random gene pairing or "crossing over" of genes? Calc test and presentation prevent me from having time to explain this. Perhaps later tonight, if it hasn't been covered.
Posted by IceHawk78 (Member # 1699) on 02-04-2003, 10:41 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Mick_Hale:
Someone needs to have sexual reproduction explained to them. Shall we start with random gene pairing or "crossing over" of genes? Calc test and presentation prevent me from having time to explain this. Perhaps later tonight, if it hasn't been covered.
...I thought I covered it fairly well, unless you were saying that I needed to have it explained to me. Perhaps instead you could explain why my super-inbreeder wouldn't work.
Posted by Dweedle (Member # 1209) on 02-04-2003, 11:11 AM:
Comedy "I like babies they are tasty" option.
Posted by Gary Oak (Member # 1028) on 02-04-2003, 02:54 PM:
Heh..... "babbies"
Posted by Atma (Member # 689) on 02-04-2003, 03:19 PM:
Genes are handed down randomly when people have children. If you have two people who are siblings (and no, not identical twins), both of them have the same identical parent-DNA, and yet thwey can be very different. The parings in the poll again have the same parent-DNA, so they'll look like siblings, but they won't look any closer than a standard pair of siblings (and again, no, not identical twins)
Posted by cfalcon (Member # 19) on 02-04-2003, 03:26 PM:
Correct. If your father and your uncle are genetically identical, and your mother and your aunt are genetically identical, then your cousins are genetically your siblings.
My mother has a twin, so my cousin is genetically my half sister.... *if* they are identical twins, which they claim (but I'm not totally sure).
Posted by IceHawk78 (Member # 1699) on 02-04-2003, 03:30 PM:
So, does nobody know what would happen in my scenario, or does nobody know if that would be possible?
Posted by Mr. K (Member # 2) on 02-04-2003, 03:41 PM:
If two twins married two twins would their children look the same?
No. Otherwise all brothers and sisters would be identical.
What about if two clones had babbies with two clones?
Same thing.
Didn't really need a poll...
Posted by Mr. K (Member # 2) on 02-04-2003, 03:46 PM:
Oops.
Didn't actually read who wrote what.
Now, what I don't know is if (1) it would be possible to genetically engineer a male and a female so that they would have the same DNA...
I dunno. Maybe. Might be a problem with X chromosome or something. Dunno how that works.
...(2) if this was possible, if their kids would all have the same DNA.
Hmph. Interesting question.
I wonder if there's something in the process that only works because the DNA is different. It might cause a meltdown of the system.
Or not.
I have so little data that it wasn't worth me posting, except to say that I fucked up in the above message.
[ 02-04-2003, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Mr. K ]
Posted by IceHawk78 (Member # 1699) on 02-04-2003, 04:01 PM:
Alright, how about another way to go about this. Are there specific genes that determine the gender so that you could engineer a human to be a clone of someone else with the exception of the gender genes?
And if you could do that, when they had sex, would their child be neuter sexed (i.e: have half female genes, half male genes, so that they ended up either being both male and female or being neither)?
Posted by pkthunder (Member # 67) on 02-04-2003, 04:19 PM:
We think we've got it figured out:
Icehawk78 (4:01:12 PM): You know any genetics?
pkthunder2 (4:01:25 PM): Some
Icehawk78 (4:01:28 PM): http://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/azure/forum/buzz/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=006434#000013
pkthunder2 (4:01:31 PM): Been a few years, though.
Icehawk78 (4:02:00 PM): Go look at my last couple of posts there and see if you can come up with any sort of answer to my questions.
pkthunder2 (4:02:35 PM): Gender is not determined by genes, but by the presence of either a Y chromosome or a second X chromosome in the 23rd pair.
Icehawk78 (4:02:57 PM): So woul;d that change the DNA?
Icehawk78 (4:03:16 PM): /me knows very little about chromosomes.
pkthunder2 (4:03:18 PM): Yes. All the sex genes are located on the X and Y chromosomes in the 23rd pair.
pkthunder2 (4:04:08 PM): When two people have sex to make a baby, the mom provides an X chromosome in her egg and the dad provides either an X or a Y (randomly determined) in his sperm.
Icehawk78 (4:04:52 PM): So would that mean that if there was a secon X gene there, then they'd all be female and if it was a Y then they'd be all male?
Icehawk78 (4:05:48 PM): Wow, that didn't come out well at all.
Icehawk78 (4:05:55 PM): Lemmie try and rephrase that.
Icehawk78 (4:07:09 PM): You have mom with two identical X genes, dad with one X gene identical to mom's two, and dad's Y gene
Icehawk78 (4:08:49 PM): If the kid was female, she'd be a clone of mommie, and if the kid was male, he'd be a clone of daddy.
pkthunder2 (4:08:58 PM): I suppose as a boy, you have an X and a Y. To make a female clone of you, they could remove the Y and replicate the X, so there'd still be two X's. There might be some problems with that (deformities and whatnot... who knows).
Icehawk78 (4:10:40 PM): Why would they have deformities?
pkthunder2 (4:11:01 PM): Because that kind of shit happens when you mess with genetics.
Icehawk78 (4:11:11 PM): How so?
pkthunder2 (4:11:17 PM): A girl has two X chromosomes, but they are not identical to each other. One was donated by the mother and one by the father. I don't know how you could make a male clone of a girl, because you would need a Y chromosome from somewhere.
Icehawk78 (4:11:43 PM): No, the dad's X gene would be the same as mom's.
pkthunder2 (4:12:08 PM): Are the mom and dad already clones?
pkthunder2 (4:12:14 PM): They won't be identical.
Icehawk78 (4:13:12 PM): Mom and dad were genetically engineered to have the same DNA structure of each otherwith the difference only that mom's got 2 Xs that are identical to dad's one X, but dad's also got a Y.
pkthunder2 (4:13:59 PM): Okay, I get it now. Icehawk gets a female clone in the above-described process. (This means you may have to have sex with a deformed girl. :-) )
pkthunder2 (4:14:15 PM): Then you have sex with your clone to try to make a baby.
Icehawk78 (4:14:28 PM): Yes.
pkthunder2 (4:14:31 PM): Is your baby a clone of you or a clone of your deformed-clone girlfriend?
pkthunder2 (4:14:39 PM): This is the question.
Icehawk78 (4:14:52 PM): Then the baby should be a clone of me, either male (exactly the same) or my female clone.
pkthunder2 (4:15:02 PM): That's what I believe.
pkthunder2 (4:15:14 PM): And it would be randomly determined by your sperm.
Icehawk78 (4:15:22 PM): =D
Icehawk78 (4:15:22 PM): Yay.
Icehawk78 (4:15:23 PM): I win.
Icehawk78 (4:15:35 PM): Two people came up with the exact same answer.
Icehawk78 (4:15:53 PM): Now I can go make my master race that can reproduce itself.
Posted by IceHawk78 (Member # 1699) on 02-04-2003, 04:27 PM:
One other note that came up when I came to the same answer with footitch is that you would also need to make all the genes dominant (well, or all recessive, I suppose) so there was no hybridization.
[edit: recessive, not passive genes]
[ 02-04-2003, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: IceHawk78 ]
Posted by Mick_Hale (Member # 419) on 02-04-2003, 09:17 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by IceHawk78:
...I thought I covered it fairly well, unless you were saying that I needed to have it explained to me. Perhaps instead you could explain why my super-inbreeder wouldn't work.
That you did. I was referring to kristraj.
Posted by IceHawk78 (Member # 1699) on 02-04-2003, 10:13 PM:
Ah. I gotcha.
So, can anyone now dispute the pkthunder/icehawk/footitch theorum of world domination?
Posted by kristraj (Member # 1360) on 02-05-2003, 04:45 AM:
im to sciencticion os i was just asking what people thought, i asked this question to myself and was wonder what other people thought,
well i guess it is no, and you have very good proof to make it up, thx for your replies
Posted by Mr. K (Member # 2) on 02-05-2003, 01:45 PM:
what
Posted by Kid Vid2 (Member # 2514) on 02-05-2003, 01:46 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. K:
what
seconded
Posted by kristraj (Member # 1360) on 02-07-2003, 05:51 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. K:
If two twins married two twins would their children look the same?
No. Otherwise all brothers and sisters would be identical.
What about if two clones had babbies with two clones?
Same thing.
i mean this comment really got me
Posted by IceHawk78 (Member # 1699) on 02-07-2003, 06:48 AM:
What. Just what.
Karpe Diem