This is topic A developing situation (rule interpretation) in forum Azure Arena at The Azure Heights Forum.

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Posted by Donald (Member # 1551) on 10-29-2002, 09:16 PM:
Situation 1

Say Tommy and Timmy are having a fierce battle. They agreed to Stadium rules before the battle, however, it's taking place on a GB.

The battle came down to Tommy's 35 HP Snorlax (Curselax moveset w/DE and EQ) against Timmy's 145 HP (PAR) Zapdos. Now, Snorlax can't use Curse, because Thunderbolt would fry him before it would do anything. EQ, of course, would miss, and Zapdos can put Snorlax in a Rest loop if he heals and eventually whup it.

So, Tommy's Lax uses DE! Zapdos goes down like a hot rock (min dmg: 154). However, there's a problem - the recoil kills Snorlax as well. [Frown]

Who gets the win? Or is it a draw?

Situation 2

Tommy and Timmy are fighting again, and again it comes down to Snorlax/Zappy. Snorlax has 70 HP left, Zapdos has 290 and is PAR.

Snorlax uses Double-Edge... and it criticals! Zappy goes down! But wait... Snorlax pwns himself AGAIN with the recoil.

Who would you award the win to?
Posted by Atma (Member # 689) on 10-29-2002, 09:20 PM:
Timmy wins, in this case DE violates explosion clause.
Posted by Uiru (Member # 437) on 10-29-2002, 11:22 PM:
Except that Double Edge is not Perish Song, Destiny Bond, Selfdestruct or Explosion, which are the four moves quoted in Explosion Clause.

I assume the only difference between the two situations is that the first was agreed to with Stadium rules and the second one wasn't. In the first case, since Double Edge would not have KO'd Snorlax had they been playing on Stadium, Snorlax wins. I guess the second one would be a draw, but it seems to be pretty trivial- Zapdos went down first. But either way, Zapdos most certainly does not win.

And on an unrelated tangent... How, exactly, does a Zapdos (which is AT BEST a 4HKO against a Snorlax without Leftovers and who is paralyzed on top of that) put a Snorlax in a Rest loop? Unless it has the DV set that grants a 70 Rape-a-Prole Power, Snorlax had this match in the bag anyhow. But that's not the point.
Posted by Atma (Member # 689) on 10-30-2002, 01:29 AM:
The idea behind explosion clause is that it's actually a no-suicide clause. And if DE kills yourself with recoil, it's definitely suicide.
Posted by Uiru (Member # 437) on 10-30-2002, 11:21 AM:
There have been enough cheating and anti-cheese debates to prove that you just can't say "the idea behind..." without definite, concrete proof from Game Freak, which of course will never happen.

Double Edge is not listed in Explosion Clause, thus it doesn't violate it. So, unless your last name is Tajiri and you are filthy stinking rich, you can't say "the idea behind...". [Smile]
Posted by Mr. K (Member # 2) on 10-30-2002, 04:34 PM:
I'm not sure, but I think Stadium would grant the win to Snorlax. I think the Zapdos would drop dead and the winna would be declared right there, before the suicide animation.

Or I could be totally wrong.

But you could test it out, and then whatever happens would certainly prove whatever "Stadium rules" are...
Posted by Jolt135 (Member # 1974) on 10-30-2002, 06:47 PM:
Power=120, Accuracy=256, BasePP=15, MaxPP=24, Priority=4
Effect=Whenever ~this~ deals damage, divide that damage by 4 and subtract that number from user's HP.
Mode1=Accuracy -= 1. Power -= 20.
Mode2=Accuracy -= 1. Power -= 20.
Rulings=See Recoil (Glossary).
In Modes 2 and 4, recoil is only applied if user has not won the game. In modes 1 and 3, it is possible for this move to end in a draw.
Against a Substitute, recoil is always equal to 1.

Stadium mode is mode 4, under whose interpretation DE would win the game, not draw it.

[ 10-31-2002, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: Jolt135 ]
Posted by Uiru (Member # 437) on 10-30-2002, 07:47 PM:
What in the hell are modes? And why are there four of them?

And this better not be stupid. [Razz]
Posted by Jolt135 (Member # 1974) on 10-31-2002, 02:41 PM:
Mode 1 = modular equivalent of "RBY in-game/link".
Mode 2 = modular equivalent of "Stadium 1".
Mode 3 = modular equivalent of "GSC in-game/link".
Mode 4 = modular equivalent of "Stadium 2".

RS will become mode 5 upon their release.
Posted by MK (Member # 1445) on 11-15-2002, 09:22 PM:
Guess we can call PoKéMoN Stadium for Gamecube Mode 6...
Posted by Skarmory (Member # 1850) on 11-25-2002, 12:41 AM:
The Snorlax would win in both cases because, very simply, he knocked out Zapdos first, without an explosion move (lets not get into that debate again).

Zapdos, did not win, because it lost to a move. Snorlax however, kicked Zapdos' butt. If this was a tourney situation, I'd give the Laxen the win.

Karpe Diem