This is topic Getting back into Pokemon G/S; need team help in forum Omanyte Historical Foundation at The Azure Heights Forum.

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Posted by ZZTRaider (Member # 86) on 12-22-2001, 09:05 PM:
Hey all. Some of you may remember me from ages ago, others may not. Doesn't really matter, but hey to all those who remember me.
Anyway, I'm getting back into Gold and Silver, and really have no idea of what the really powerful standards are now and all, have no clue about any metagame as far as PBS and all is concerned, and I never really got into a G/S frameset to begin with and still think in RBY mode. I think this is decent for a start, but I need some help.

Alakazam (1/F/F/F) - @Miracle Berry
Encore, Reflect, Psychic, Recover

Starter. Encore faster Pokemon that will likely use a support move, Reflect for slower ones or those that are likely to switch out. The Encore will lead to me switching to a pokemon best able to handle the move being encored. Psychic for a possible later appearance so it can actually kill stuff.

Kingdra (1/F/F/F) - @???
Rest, Surf, Dragon Breath, Sleep Talk

Would this work, or is Ice Beam a better choice than Sleep Talk? Strategy should be obvious, rest as needed to keep HP up, Sleep Talk while Resting to continue to attack.

Wigglytuff (F/F/F/F) - @Mint Berry (Leftovers?)
Psych Up, Double Edge, Rest, Shadow Ball

One of the possible switches from 'Kazam. If a statboosting move has been used, Psych Up to get the benefits and then attack with Double Edge. Shadow Ball for those pesky ghosts, and Rest to take advantage of Wiggly's high HP. Mint Berry for some Minty Rest unless Leftovers would be more effective.
One question though, would it be a better idea to use Miltank with Psych Up and Heal Bell, as I have no Heal Beller on this team? I dunno if current metagame makes one more or less a neccessity or not.

Quagsire (F/F/F/F) - @Leftovers?
Earthquake, Surf, Haze, Body Slam/Rain Dance

Fairly obvious, my Hazer. Also provides Electric resistence. Not sure whether to go with Body Slam or Rain dance. Raindance helps Raichu, but Body Slam offers more offesne and the chance of paralyzing... Opinions wanted.

Raichu (1/F/F/F) - @???
Thunder, Surf, Rain Dance, Thunder Wave

Not to sure about this guy, especially with water already covered by Quagsire, though it does cover Raichu's weakness to Ground. Strategy should be obvious, Rainy Day for 100% accurate Thunders along with powered up Surfs. I still dunno though... would another electric fill the place a bit better?

Skarmory (F/F/F/F) - @???
Steel Wing, Drill Peck, Curse/Rest, Whirlwind

Anti-Grass to take out threats to Quagsire. Whirlwind for Pseudo-hazing, Curse/Rest for either stat boosts or to last a bit longer. Not sure what to go with there.

Thanks for any and all help. Also, assume I'm playing with no clauses, except a house rule of mine, the 1/3 Legendary Clause: Only 1/3 of the team that will play may be legendaries, where a legendary is any pokemon that can only be found once in any cart. Therefore, Snorlax is not legendary as you can find 2 in RBY, even though you only find 1 in G/S, and the Legendary Birds are (obviously) Legendary as they can only be found once (or not at all) in each cart. Mewtwo counts as 2 legendaries in a 6 Pokemon battle, and therefore cannot be used in a 3 Pokemon Battle.
Thanks again.

EDIT: Changed some movesets slightly, added weakness/resistence chart below.

4x: Grass
2x: Fighting, Ground, Bug, Ghost, Fire, Electric, Dark, Dragon
.5x: Normal, Fighting, Flying (2), Poison, Rock, Ghost, Steel (4), Fire, Electric, Psychic (2), Dragon, Dark
.25x: Bug, Fire, Water, Grass
0x: Poison, Ground, Ghost, Electric

[ 12-22-2001: Message edited by: ZZTRaider ]

Posted by CHaRiZaRd (Member # 994) on 12-22-2001, 11:19 PM:
I remember you from Azure Heights chat, a while ago.. when I first joined here last October.

I'm not that great at GSC yet, but I'll just point out a few things.

Alakazam: He works well with Fire Punch, Psychic, Reflect/Barrier, and Recover. Fire Punch is for the ever-popular starting Forretress. Not sure as to what a good item might be, but since he's a starter, probably Miracle berry. Yup, you got that.

Kingdra: I've always liked a male Kingdra with Ice Beam, Attract, Surf, and Dragonbreath @ Leftovers. Male because the common heal bellers are female. Dragonbreath can help get paralysis, and attract can piss people off, too. Kinda like parafusion.

The Wigglytuff looks workable. However, its mediocre initial defensive stats are not too pretty. Perhaps Curse can work... not too sure. As for the possible Heal Beller, a Miltank with Psych Up does work. Leftovers would probably be best for Miltank, and for Wiggly, perhaps Mint Berry or Leftovers. Meh... I'm not too fond of Cursing Pokemon. They're easily counterable by Roar/Whirlwind, and they take a while to set-up. It can work.

Quagsire: Uh... Curse, Earthquake, Surf, Rest @ Mint Berry. I really do not know. Your set can work well.

Raichu: Uh... Raikou, perhaps? Crunch, Reflect, Thunderbolt, Roar/HP-Ice. @ Leftovers. (I know I kinda ignored Raichu's existence there, sorry, but I don't think he can last long enough for the Rain Dance/Thunder. RD might hurt him more than help him)

Skarmory: Curse, Protect, Whirlwind, and Drill Peck can work. @ Leftovers.


As I said, I'm not the greatest GSC player out there. If someone were to give me a team that works very well, I'd probably do well with it, as I can think well on the spot... but uh... otherwise, I don't know as much about the mechanics and metagame as I do in RBY, and I'm still learning.

Last time I checked (I've been gone a while, too), one good strategy is to keep the enemy switching. For instance, setting up spikes, hitting people with Toxic, making them switch with whirlwind/roar, and having a good balance of attacks in each team member seems pretty effective to me. Damage piles up, people panic. Or, you can strike early and surprise people early on in a match.

That's another thing I've noted. Surprise. Elements of surprise work very well in GSC. Countering Snorlax, Countering Gengar... all can screw people over.

Another key to success is knowing how to start off a battle; like in RBY, and perhaps even moreso in GSC, a victory is more decisive if you start off well. For instance, learning to counter starting speedy sleep-inducing Pokemon, such as Jynx or Jumpluff. Also, try not to fall into traps such as Mean Look. A whole strategy can be set-up upon one of your own errors, so if you think something is coming, do all you can to prevent the aimed goal of your opponent.

Wow, I really am rambling. There ya have it. My incoherent two cents.

Posted by Cesar (Member # 529) on 12-23-2001, 01:04 AM:
Alakazam (1/F/F/F) - @Miracle Berry
Encore, Reflect, Psychic, Recover

As stated before, fire punch can be of great use for Forretress (most Common spiker) and scizor (Common Baton Passer). Put it over reflect, encore is too precious.

Kingdra (1/F/F/F) - @???
Rest, Surf, Dragon Breath, Sleep Talk

Standard. Although I do enjoy Return over sleep talk to get Blisseys ad such. Any item will do on this gal.

Wigglytuff (F/F/F/F) - @Mint Berry (Leftovers?)
Psych Up, Double Edge, Rest, Shadow Ball

I like the psych up idea, but there is one thing that I hate about this set (and I have had it happen to me before), and its shadow ball and Double edge. T-tar, and any steel types laugh at this since they all have high defense and are resistant to both moves. What you could do is replace one move with flamethrower or fire blast, but that still leaves you open to tyranitar. Tough call...

If you decide with miltank, then you only get one open spot. Usually return fills it in, but leaves you vunerable to Rocks, Steel, and ghosts.

Quagsire (F/F/F/F) - @Leftovers?
Earthquake, Surf, Haze, Body Slam/Rain Dance

Its all good. And yes, leftovers will do.

Raichu (1/F/F/F) - @???
Thunder, Surf, Rain Dance, Thunder Wave

If you want to make this just simply to attack as much as often, then you could try agility over thunderwave. Its fine the way it is. Attach miracleberry.

If you want a replacement, I suggest Lanturn. It gets STAB on both Surf and thunder, plus it learns thunderwave (bonus confuse ray) as well. Oh, did I mention the 453 HP But Lanturn does have much lower stats then Raichu for attack (who needs it?), Special attack (UH-OH), Special Defense (UH-OH), and speed (:eek

Skarmory (F/F/F/F) - @???
Steel Wing, Drill Peck, Curse/Rest, Whirlwind

Exellent for anti-lax. Keep it. For an you can use quick claw if its for curse, or mint berry if its for rest.

Not such a bad team, no large weaknesses either.

[ 12-23-2001: Message edited by: Cesar ]

Posted by ZZTRaider (Member # 86) on 12-23-2001, 12:56 PM:
Okay, a few minor adjustments that I think might work. Still not sure about Wiggly or Miltank and Raichu or something else though.

Alakazam (1/F/F/F) @Miracle Berry - Encore, Fire Punch, Psychic, Recover
Added Fire Punch over Reflect to take take of Scizor and Forretress.

Kingdra (1/F/F/F) @Scope Lens - Rest, Surf, Dragon Breath, Sleep Talk
Scope Lens to add a chance of a CH. Though I'm not sure if the power increasing item for either Surf or Dragon Breath would be more effective, or which one should get the item for that matter.

Wigglytuff (F/F/F/F) @Mint Berry - Psych Up, Double Edge, Rest, Shadow Ball
No change as of yet. Still thinking about Miltank, probably with Psych Up, Milk Drink, Heal Bell, Return, with Leftovers attatched. More input on this issue would be appreciated.

Quagsire (F/F/F/F) @Leftovers - Earthquake, Surf, Haze, Rain Dance
Finalized the Rain Dance/Body Slam idea. Raichu has the low survivability with that defense, and without Reflect being pseudo-passed to him, getting Rain Dance out of the way would be helpful. Also powers up Surf and has no fear of 100% accurate Thunders due to the immunity.

Raichu (1/F/F/F) @Miracle Berry - Thunder, Surf, Rain Dance, Thunder Wave
Thought about replacing Thunder Wave with Agility, but the paralyzation will help everybody, not just Raichu. Alsos fits with the chance of Dragon Breath paralyzing.

Skarmory (F/F/F/F) @Quick Claw - Steel Wing, Drill Peck, Curse, Whirlwind
I believe this is the standard anti-curselax, and between paralyzation and Quick Claw, he should go first a fair bit.

More comments appreciated.

[ 12-23-2001: Message edited by: ZZTRaider ]

Posted by Jman (Member # 618) on 12-23-2001, 10:12 PM:
Hey ZZT, long time no... er... chat.

Just a quick comment on Wigglytuff, the set you have is fine and dandy, but I use this(and its my starter):

@MiracleBerry/Mint Berry
Body Slam
Perish Song
Icy Wind

This Wiggly can really do whatever it needs to do. Perish Song their Baton Passer to disrupt their strategy, Icy Wind an oncoming Pokémon to slow em up, or just whack away with Body Slam. Its a great Pokémon, try it if you'd like, its worked well for me.

Posted by ZZTRaider (Member # 86) on 12-23-2001, 10:32 PM:
Hey Jman.
That Wiggly looks effective, however, it seems to go against Encorezam. Both are counters to stat modifiers, but Alakazam uses the use to the team's advantage, while that Wiggly seems to be to completely discourage the use of Baton Passing all together. That's not neccessarily a bad thing, but it doesn't really have much synergy with Kazam, and would be best used as a starter anyway to be effective. That would more or less leave Kazam without a job without big changes to his set. And of course, another alternative is to drop him for another pokemon completely.
I dunno though, I still feel that a heal beller might be a bit neccessary, but without play testing this team, I can neither confirm nor deny that idea.

[ 12-23-2001: Message edited by: ]

Karpe Diem