This is topic Hey...... This could work for Gyarados. in forum Omanyte Historical Foundation at The Azure Heights Forum.

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Posted by Uiru (Member # 437) on 08-07-2001, 07:36 PM:
Hidden Power has a use.


Flying Power
Icy Wind

First of all, Gyarados' Flying Power outpowers Dragonite and Zapdos' Wing Attack and Drill Peck and very nearly beats Dodrio's Drill Peck (the second strongest Flying attack in the game). Gyarados got a massive SA cut but its AT is still huge- why not make use of it? Flail is a gamble, but any non-Electric type that's gonna try to take on Gyarados will find itself smacked around hard. It'd be good for sweeping, too. However, Reflect aids with the Physical defence, which is important these days.

And as for Icy Wind, it can drop even an Electrode to second turn in one hit. This could pair up with Flail nicely. (You could even put Endure over Surf if you felt like being really mean.)

Its Speed and Defence are fair (and bolstered by Reflect and Icy Wind), its Health is huge and its Special Defence remains high. Only problem with Flying Power is that it puts Gyarados at an automatic -6 AT, -4 DF and -16 HP, if it's lucky. The best stats for a 70 Flying Power are 7/12/13/15/15.

Posted by JoHtO TrAiNeR (Member # 1777) on 08-07-2001, 07:50 PM:
Heh...just had to drop by and say that Drill Peck, I believe is the 3rd strongest Flying attack, next to Aeroblast and Sky Attack. Okay, yeah maybe only one pokemon has Aeroblast so maybe it doesn't count. Oh yeah, by the way good moveset, although I'm no Gyarados expert...
Posted by MK (Member # 1445) on 08-07-2001, 08:15 PM:
Lugia is a cheating whore!
Posted by Atma (Member # 689) on 08-07-2001, 08:30 PM:
(1) HP Flying on Gyarados is not stronger than HP Flying on Draggy (which I used to use, until I replaced it with DE, which is even stronger than HP Flying)
(2) With the *4 Electirc weakness, you DEFINITELY want Endure, or else Gyarados won't be around to Flail at anything.
(3) If you normally shark max DVs, sharking max Flying HP will still be better than most people that breed for DVs (like me). If you breed for DVs, you should be able to gte DVs nearly as good as other DV breeders.
(4) Between two turns and imperfect accuracy, Sky Attack has lower average damage than HP Flying.
(5) When can we expect more fanfics? Fire Strike series and Pokemon Academy were excellent.
Posted by Gloomboy (Member # 462) on 08-07-2001, 10:24 PM:
W00t! Uiru is god!

I also find Hotaru to be cute(and my fave Outer Senshi) and I read your Pokemon Fire Strike series,it really rocked,especially with all the giant Pokemon and special new attacks. UIRU RULES!

Posted by StealthNinjaScyther (Member # 1833) on 08-08-2001, 02:21 AM:
If my memory serves correctly using Endure against an electric would be suicide since Endure will not work properly if the opponent is faster. And since all or most(I can't remember) electrics are faster than Gyarados Endure would not help. It would go something along the lines of this:

Trainer1 sends out Gyarados
Trainer2 sends out Jolteon

Gyarados uses Endure since Endure goes first(duh)
Jolteon uses Thunderbolt

Gyarados survives with 1 HP
Jolteon uses Thunderbolt, KOs Gyarados

Using Endure will make you move first but since Jolteon is faster it will get two moves in a row. At least that's what I was told would happen, I've never tested it for myself, but it seems logical.

Posted by Tghost (Member # 1418) on 08-08-2001, 02:27 AM:
What kind of idiot would leave a Gyarados at 1 HP out in front of a Jolteon? If they do that, they deserve to be KO'd.

Anyway, you'd switch, of course, and have one Gyarados ready and willing to hit the opposition with Flail, all you'd need to do is know who Gyarados is faster than, switch in after a KO, and be mighty sure you'll get Flail to KO (a nice idea would be to construct a list of damages, witrh the knowledge Flail always gets a random number of 255/255 in the damage formula, you good work out which Pokemon Gyarados is a) faster than and b) what percentages of HP they would have to have to be OHKO'd) then, you have a weapon worth using.

Posted by Uiru (Member # 437) on 08-08-2001, 06:42 AM:

Drill Peck is the second-strongest Flying attack, yeah, but Zapdos' Drill Peck is still outpowered by Gyarados' Flying Power. Sky Attack has an average damage equal to that of a 70 Flying Power, but it's less accurate and harder to use.

*sigh* Yes, Dragonite's Flying Power is stronger than Gyarados'. But why go through all that trouble when Wing Attack still works out?

Never thought I'd have to talk about Fire Strike here. ^_^ I'm hard at work on the first rewrite. Bug me again at the end of the month; I might be done by then.

Hotaru wa kawaii!! Hee hee! Ami is cute too...

As for Gyarados Flailing on a Jolteon, if Jolteon switches into an Icy Wind, Gyarados will get the Speed advantage. However, without STAB, Flail will still only do 228~270 damage to Jolteon, so make sure you've weakened it first. (One Icy Wind won't be enough.)

Flail always hits at max power? Does that go for Reversal too? In that case, Flail does 270 damage.

Posted by Mentar the Malady Monkey (Member # 1182) on 08-08-2001, 09:44 AM:
For Icy Wind... can't he get Thunderwave instead? Wouldn't that work just as well?

Slap me if he can't learn Thunderwave.

Posted by LanderZRPG (Member # 1615) on 08-08-2001, 09:56 AM:
Originally posted by Mentar the Malady Monkey:
For Icy Wind... can't he get Thunderwave instead? Wouldn't that work just as well?

Slap me if he can't learn Thunderwave.

::LanderZ slaps Mentar::

Posted by Atma (Member # 689) on 08-08-2001, 03:28 PM:
Originally posted by StealthNinjaScyther:
If my memory serves correctly using Endure against an electric would be suicide since Endure will not work properly if the opponent is faster.

Ther endure works fine (it automatically goes first), but next turn, Gyarados is at 1 HP and facing a faster pokemon....

*makes room in the Pokecenter for a Gyarados*

Posted by raticata (Member # 1994) on 08-08-2001, 03:42 PM:
well at least using gyarados is now feasible - though flail is dodgy, there is usually one electric attack at max per team so as long as the electric has been silenced old gyara can work its magic. IMO a good physical attack like return/body slam/d.edge would work well over flail.

I like the idea of icy wind. It could work well for piloswine also, even getting a little bit of stab.

Also, why not try fireblast ? If maro and 'lax can use it there is no reason why gyara can't, and what poor forret/scizor/parasect would expect it ??

Anyway, good work, maybe one day every single poke will be ok to use.

Posted by SDShamshel (Member # 791) on 08-08-2001, 11:49 PM:
Meh. I'd like to put Sub over something. Maybe Icy Wind. Sub on the switch, attack hard, then get the hell out of there.

Eventually, you can do a Sub/Flail thing so that your HP is reduced, and you're still behind a sub.

Posted by StealthNinjaScyther (Member # 1833) on 08-09-2001, 01:22 AM:
That's what I did, Substitute can work well on Gyarados. Since I have a strange habit of giving decent movesets to all my shiny Pokemon I gave my shiny Gyarados, Raging Red, this set:

Gyarados(Mint Berry)
Double Edge

It's not really all that good, but it's Gyarados. I wish that Gyarados had a good special attack rather than attack because then it would be so much more useful.

Posted by Uiru (Member # 437) on 08-09-2001, 08:36 AM:
Heh heh...

Flamethrower (Fire Blast hates me ~_~)
Flying Power
Icy Wind

Not bad, not bad... Kinda weird for a Water type, doing what Moltres and Dragonite do, but eh.

Posted by raticata (Member # 1994) on 08-09-2001, 03:35 PM:
ah that looks very good, completely unexpected, have you tried it on gsbot yet??
Posted by StealthNinjaScyther (Member # 1833) on 08-10-2001, 12:08 AM:
Eventually, you can do a Sub/Flail thing so that your HP is reduced, and you're still behind a sub.

A Substitue/Flail or Reversal could actually work quite well. However you won't have much luck with that combo on Gyarados as it's not possible. Only Magikarp learns Flail and Magikarp cannot learn the Substitue TM. Might be a worthwhile Substitute/Reversal set for Kangaskhan though.

Posted by SDShamshel (Member # 791) on 08-10-2001, 12:26 AM:
Move deleter.

Delete flail, trade to RBY, make into Gyarados, give sub, trade back, battle through Gym Leader Tower, get Flail back.

Posted by StealthNinjaScyther (Member # 1833) on 08-10-2001, 12:34 AM:
From what I've heard you can only relearn moves that the Pokemon learns through level-up, and Gyarados doesn't learn Flail through level-up, only Magikarp. So I don't think that would work.

It seems that only Seaking can have a Substitue/Flail combo and Kangaskhan and Hitmonlee are the only ones that can get a Substitute/Reversal combo, that is unless I overlooked someone.

Posted by Random Loser (Member # 1538) on 08-10-2001, 02:45 AM:
Yeah, he's right, no Sub/Flail combo on 'Dos.
Posted by White Cat (Member # 42) on 08-10-2001, 05:10 AM:
I don't think I understand the appeal of a Sub+Flail combo...
Posted by SDShamshel (Member # 791) on 08-10-2001, 10:18 AM:
The appeal of a sub/flail or reversal combo is that You can blatantly waste your own Hit Points to power up the attack. If you time it correctly, you can have a sub up, and be at anywhere from 1% health to 25% health.

[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: SDShamshel ]

Posted by Random Loser (Member # 1538) on 08-10-2001, 01:01 PM:
Of course, unless you get below 10% it would be better just to use Return. I think you'd be better off just consistantly using a powerful attack than blatantly wasting your own Hit Points....
Posted by SDShamshel (Member # 791) on 08-10-2001, 02:40 PM:
That's why on Kangaskhan, you give it Double-Edge and Substitute.

Waste your own HP with Substitute, then waste more HP WHILE using a Powerful attack.

Karpe Diem