This is topic So... About stat boosts and criticals. in forum Research Lab at The Azure Heights Forum.


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Posted by Uiru (Member # 437) on 09-03-2001, 06:19 PM:
 
I keep hearing that stat boosts play into the damage a critical hit does, sometimes. Could someone explain this for me, or point me to a thread that discusses this?

I wanna know what happens when...

1. A Sandslash uses Swords Dance three times and gets a Critical Slash on a Vaporeon.

2. A Vaporeon uses Acid Armor three times and gets hit with a Critical Slash from a Sandslash.

3. A Sandslash uses Swords Dance three times and gets a Critical Slash on a Vaporeon that has used Acid Armor three times.

And I would also like to point out that I am outraged that my two-AP-boosted Aerodactyl didn't faint a Reflected Pidgeot with a critical Ancientpower the other day in GSBot. Does Reflect and Light Screen affect this any differently than Barrier, Acid Armor and Amnesia would?
~Uiru
 


Posted by poccil (Member # 1457) on 09-03-2001, 06:24 PM:
 
http://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/azure/forum/buzz/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=00 0993

As Continue noted, any effects that affect damage other than stat modifications are retained in a Critical Hit.

[ 09-03-2001: Message edited by: poccil ]

[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: poccil ]
 


Posted by Uiru (Member # 437) on 09-03-2001, 06:45 PM:
 
So, this whole thing could be dumbed down to this:

1. Defence boosts mean nothing as far as critical hits are concerned, as a critical will obviously do more damage without them. Unless more attack boosts have been used than defence boosts.

2. Attack boosts are still counted, unless more defence boosts have been used than attack boosts.

3. If an equal number of stat boosts have been used (ie both stats are effectively 999) then the boosts are kept if the Attack stat was initially higher, and ignored if the Defence stat was initially higher.

And, for my example...

A 616 AT Aerodactyl using a 60 power 2x effective STAB critical attack on a 248 DF Pidgeot should have resulted in a min of 626 damage. If Reflect is always counted, this means the new min is 313, much less than 369 (the max HP).

The minimum damage coming from a 308 AT Aero using all the same stuff on the Pidgeot is a min of 315. But, Reflect is always counted, so it should be 157.5.

So, Reflect and Light Screen shag up the generalizations above, as two AP boosts = 1 Reflect as far as the stats are concerned, and Aero started with the higher Attack. Or maybe I'm all wrong? Who knows.
~Uiru
 


Posted by Continue (Member # 31) on 09-04-2001, 02:17 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Uiru:
So, this whole thing could be dumbed down to this:

1. Defence boosts mean nothing as far as critical hits are concerned, as a critical will obviously do more damage without them. Unless more attack boosts have been used than defence boosts.


It's correct, but the second sentence is still a very meaningful part of it. Defense boosts can very well still be important. If the attacker has 3 Swords Dance and the defender only has 2 Barriers (or 4 Defense Curls), the Defender is still saved alot of pain on a CH.

quote:

2. Attack boosts are still counted, unless more defence boosts have been used than attack boosts.

Dead on.

quote:

3. If an equal number of stat boosts have been used (ie both stats are effectively 999) then the boosts are kept if the Attack stat was initially higher, and ignored if the Defence stat was initially higher.

Er, not quite. Really, I'm not sure whether they're kept or dropped when the boosts are equal. Since the boosts are the same, commutative properties make both damage values the same, as was seen in testing to get the information.

quote:

And, for my example...

A 616 AT Aerodactyl using a 60 power 2x effective STAB critical attack on a 248 DF Pidgeot should have resulted in a min of 626 damage. If Reflect is always counted, this means the new min is 313, much less than 369 (the max HP).


Yep.

quote:

The minimum damage coming from a 308 AT Aero using all the same stuff on the Pidgeot is a min of 315. But, Reflect is always counted, so it should be 157.5.

Dropping the .5 because everything is integer calculations, you got it.

quote:

So, Reflect and Light Screen shag up the generalizations above, as two AP boosts = 1 Reflect as far as the stats are concerned, and Aero started with the higher Attack. Or maybe I'm all wrong? Who knows.

Only The Shadow knows!
Eh, hmmm... <sweeps away unused reference>

You are correct in that Reflect and LS make things less pleasant for the attacker, since their halving of damage regardless of CH is going to make those 2 AP boosts worthless as far as damage goes. OTOH, if the Aero could get a 3rd AP boost, then things look a little better for the attacker, but not by much.

Now, if I'm going to keep doing this,I'm going to need a Washu icon.
 




Karpe Diem