). CatGonk seems to think that the combo would only work on the first hit, however what s/he is forgetting that all five possible (very possible if my hunch is correct about Rollout) hits all expend only a single PP. Theoretically;------------------
No defense curl;
No STAB/STAB
30/45
60/90
120/180
240/360
480/720
Defense Curl;
No STAB/STAB
60/90
120/180
240/360
480/720
960/1440, (999 capped)
So what this means is, Golem is actually a better candidate for DC/Roll than Rhydon, because of Rhydon's inability to learn Defense Curl.
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[This message has been edited by Automaton (edited 12-30-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Automaton (edited 12-30-2000).]
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quote:
Originally posted by waruimewtwo:
interesting, thanks a lot Automaton/phildo.
Well, you're very welcome, waruimewtwo/waruimewtwo!
Also, I was wondering if it's possible to get Lock On/Mindreader onto a Fast pokemon that can learn Rollout. That would potentially be very lethal.
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quote:
Originally posted by The Mad DoctorX:
Deos Furry Cutter get Capped to 999 to?
Fury Cutter caps off at 160. You're just gonna have to trust me at this one. The reason for this is that Rollout is five hits with increasing power. Since Fury Cutter can go continuously, (Hell, it's Japanese name is Continuous Cut) to have it go any higher than 160 would unbalance the game to such a horrible level. It would make Bugs into the best type, like Psychics were in the Chromatic cycle. Thus completely undermining the prerelease playtesting process.
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I was wrong before about Rollout decreasing in accuracy for each subsequent hit. The accuracy remains the same at 90%. Sorry about that hehe.
Defense Curl can be used *anytime* before any Rollout and it will still double the attack power of all your Rollouts. So you could Defense Curl, then Double Team or something, then Rollout and still get the bonus. And after your Rollout ends if they are still alive I think if you Rollout again you still get the 2x damage bonus from your very old Defense Curl.
Defense Curling twice doesn't do anything more than one Defense Curl.
You lose complete control of your pokemon will Rollouting. For Fury Cutter you don't, and need to reselect the move every turn. Question: does interrupting your Fury Cutter hits with other moves reset the damage back to 10?
I could be wrong about these things, so please check if you care.
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quote:
Originally posted by Automaton:
Fury Cutter caps off at 160. You're just gonna have to trust me at this one. The reason for this is that Rollout is five hits with increasing power. Since Fury Cutter can go continuously, (Hell, it's Japanese name is Continuous Cut) to have it go any higher than 160 would unbalance the game to such a horrible level. It would make Bugs into the best type, like Psychics were in the Chromatic cycle.
I'd agree with you... if there was a bug that could last more than five turns anyway. Going higher would also make a nice balance to the fact that it starts at a power of 15, and doesn't even get any Defense Curl-esque bonus. (Not too far though - continuous max-strength attacks would quickly devastate any opponent who was stupid enough to let you power up.)
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"I don't pretend to have all of life's answers, but I do pretend to be a spaceman."
-Jack Handley
quote:
Originally posted by Automaton:
Also, I was wondering if it's possible to get Lock On/Mindreader onto a Fast pokemon that can learn Rollout. That would potentially be very lethal.
Now that would be cool. I'm gonna look into that tomorrow morning.
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quote:
Originally posted by 1970Beetle:
Now that would be cool. I'm gonna look into that tomorrow morning.
I did some checking, and it would appear that one of the only (if not THE only) Pokemon that can do that Lock-On/Rollout thing is Magneton, and it would appear that you'd have to BP some agility to him to get him fast enough, or Prz the entire opposing team, (Another theme that 'Ton fits well in... ). CatGonk seems to think that the combo would only work on the first hit, however what s/he is forgetting that all five possible (very possible if my hunch is correct about Rollout) hits all expend only a single PP. Theoretically;
Rollout's Hit% by itself;
90%
81%
72.9%
65.6%
59%
The hit rate doesn't actually lower, it's just that that's the percentile chance of amassing that many hits, and to anyone else that's actually fired this move up, knows that this is more than correct.
Rollout's Hit% with Lock-On;
99%
98%
97%
96%
95%
Again, that's just the chance of all five hits connecting. I'd take a 95% chance of landing a 480 base move any day of the week compared to a 59% chance. And, I could raise his Atk, and make him a badass sweeper. Plus he can't be poisoned, and his defensive capabilities have improved dramatically due to his Steel type. And if he's faster than everything else... Then he can seriously take out entire teams. And how painful would it be to have a giant steel mass of electrified screws and magnets roll over you?
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"Well, Hiro, time to probe the bush. Let's get this party started."-Ronfar, Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete
[This message has been edited by Automaton (edited 01-08-2001).]
quote:
Originally posted by Rolken:
I'd agree with you... if there was a bug that could last more than five turns anyway.
Think for a second... Which Bug Pokemon is solely responsible for Fire Blast on many Pokemon that should never have it?
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"Well, Hiro, time to probe the bush. Let's get this party started."-Ronfar, Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete
[This message has been edited by Automaton (edited 01-08-2001).]
Decent Speed Pokémon with Defense Curl and Rollout? Smeargle. 
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I AM A GOLDEN GOD!
quote:
Originally posted by Mr.E:
Whoever thinks you're gonna last long enough to repeatedly Rollout is insane anyway.Decent Speed Pokémon with Defense Curl and Rollout? Smeargle.
Would you care to ellaborate? I was talking about using this pokemon as part of a mass paralyzing platform, with enhanced Atk, and Lock-On, not Defense Curl. At which point, he's going faster than your opponent's entire team, preferably with 200% of his normal Atk, and Rolling for the max number of hits, always, because of Lock-On, which he could easily use without incedent. If you could describe to me an actual situation, using example of common pokemon and strategies, with decision making skills that would actually make sense other than something like "Ho-oh used Sacred Fire! Critical Hit!!! XD" or something of that order.
Feh, "GOLDEN GOD" indeed...
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"Well, Hiro, time to probe the bush. Let's get this party started."-Ronfar, Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete
Snorlax (Rollage of Justice)(c)
-----------------------------
Rollout
Defence Curl
Rest
Sleep Talk
-Beserk Gene-
Can you say boo yah. After the first Defense Curl, both it's defence stats are el high, and it has awesome HP. If it can stay focused through D-Curl and Rollout, and no be confused, you can lay the beat down. I would imagine you wouldn't have to try for confusion every turn of Rollout, so once its going, it aint gonna stop.
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Oh, and let's not forget Protect/Detect. Ain't a common move used in battle, but it'll still stop you dead in your tracks. Same with confusion, and possibly even paralysis. And who in the hell would bring in Ho-oh against somebody using Rollout? Besides, you're a lot more likely to Burn than critical anyway, which would also screw you over. (Not that switching Ho-oh in against a Rollout user is recommended, mind you.)
Can you say boo yah.
Can you say Machamp?
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I AM A GOLDEN GOD!
My Anti-Normal is a Gengar with Mean Look/Curse. See ya, Snoringlax...
[This message has been edited by Charmeleon42 (edited 01-09-2001).]
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I AM A GOLDEN GOD!
That's bad. With only one damaging attack, Sleep Talk is virtually worthless. Use Snore instead. And I'd take Curse over Defense Curl, since you can boost your power twice as high, and it affects all your attacks, not just Rollout.
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"This year, Toronto had a huge garbage problem. But he was re-elected anyway."
-- Jimmy & Seamus O'Toole, Royal Canadian Air Farce
Sleep Talk is there so it continue to lay down massive amounts of damage, while still asleep with Rollout. You cant argue that with Snorlax's high attack + Beserk Gene + a 2x damage bonus wont deal a LOT of damage. If I can restore my HP, and keep Rolling out at the same time, it's good. Very good.
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quote:
Originally posted by Charmeleon42:
But then it would take 2 turns to power up, rather than one.Sleep Talk is there so it continue to lay down massive amounts of damage, while still asleep with Rollout. You cant argue that with Snorlax's high attack + Beserk Gene + a 2x damage bonus wont deal a LOT of damage. If I can restore my HP, and keep Rolling out at the same time, it's good. Very good.
45%
20%
9%
4%
2%
You have a 2% chance, (Technically 1.8%) of landing all five hits. So basically, Rollout+Berserk Gene=Tackle with a 45% hit rate..
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"Well, Hiro, time to probe the bush. Let's get this party started."-Ronfar, Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete
Defense Curl can be used *anytime* before any Rollout and it will still double the attack power of all your Rollouts. So you could Defense Curl, then Double Team or something, then Rollout and still get the bonus. And after your Rollout ends if they are still alive I think if you Rollout again you still get the 2x damage bonus from your very old Defense Curl.
Defense Curling twice doesn't do anything more than one Defense Curl.
You lose complete control of your pokemon will Rollouting.
aargh! 
well, if i look on the brighter side of this little situation, if i had known all of this BEFORE i tested it i STILL would have tested it. i'm like that.
so i've tested it. this is what i got. and here it is, plain as day, from over two months ago...
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"I am happy, im feelin glad. I've got sunshine, in a bag.Im useless, but not for the long, the future is comin on."-Gorillaz, "Clint Eastwood"
quote:
Originally posted by Automaton:
You have a 2% chance, (Technically 1.8%) of landing all five hits. So basically, Rollout+Berserk Gene=Tackle with a 45% hit rate..
[/B]
Doesnt the game discard the decimal (Making it a 1% chance)? Or is that just for chromatics?
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"Come together like a foot in a shoe; only this time I think I stuck my foot in my mouth."
-Green Day, Walking Alone
No, because the game doesn't deal with those percentages at all. We write it as 1.8%, but the GameBoy sees it as ((229/256) / 2)^5 .
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"The fact is that for the leader of the Opposition to stand up in this House and to start citing numbers, Mr. Speaker, is grossly irresponsible."
-- Finance minister Paul Martin, during a debate on the value of the Canadian dollar