This is topic is Choice Band Slaking a staple pokemon? in forum Oddish Memorial Lecture Hall at The Azure Heights Forum.

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Posted by Porcupine (Member # 46) on 04-28-2004, 04:47 PM:
There's no doubt that the following Slaking is one of the most powerful Pokemon in the game, no matter what is allowed (Soul Dew Lati@s, etc).

Slaking @ Choice Band
Nature: Jolly or Timid
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spd, either 6 HP or 6 SpDef
Hyper Beam
Shadow Ball
Brick Break/something else

In an environment where all legendaries are allowed (which is what should be allowed, because Slaking is as powerful as any legendary if not moreso) I prefer Hyper Beam over Return. Only Hyper Beam will give you the OHKO power to take down most legendaries like Kyogre, Mewtwo, Lati@s, Ho-Oh, and possibly Lugia and Groudon or another Slaking, depending on EVs and Natures.

There's no doubt that even the above Slaking can be defeated 1 on 1 by Pokemon designed to battle him, though even this is very difficult. But where Slaking really shines is in true Pokemon 6v6 single battles (double battles are broken). Here, his Truant can be made up for by switching, and he can be brought in and made optimal use of, to target any Pokemon BUT those designed to counter him. Thus, most counters to Slaking don't really work in 6v6 battles. His 4 different attacks give him enough diversity to stop switching action almost completely (bringing in a Levitating Ghost, Skarmory, etc). And he can OHKO pretty much anyone, which is invaluable against Lati@s with Soul Dew, etc.

Having 1 anti-Slaking specialist Pokemon is unlikely to be as good as just running your own Slaking, and filling the rest of your team with powerhouse Legendary Pokemon.

One way to completely stop Slaking is to give almost your entire team Protect...but this will eat up 4 to 6 move slots on your team and great sacrifices would be made just to stop 1 Pokemon. Still, this is currently the only method I can think of that truly works.

So, is there any other way to honestly weaken Slaking? Or is he just a totally game-dominant staple Pokemon in 6v6 single battles, regardless of what Legendaries or Items or Clauses are allowed?
Posted by Dark_Togetic (Member # 3418) on 04-28-2004, 05:57 PM:
Levitating Ghost + *insert some Normal type Pokémon of choice here*, switch to Levitating Ghost first turn to avoid Hyper Beam, do anything on the next turn, then switch to Normal Pokémon to avoid Shadow Ball, turning the rest of the battle into a guessing game until Slaking is switched out, or either your Ghost or your Normal Pokémon is taken out (or the opponent could have set up Spikes on you...)?

[EDIT: Forgot about Spikes...]

[ 04-28-2004, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Dark_Togetic ]
Posted by Porcupine (Member # 46) on 04-28-2004, 06:34 PM:
This is somewhat effective, as previously mentioned. However, it may not be worth it. Having a 1 Levitating Ghost + 1 Normal type Pokemon (it'd probably be another Slaking) and forcing a guessing game with a switch is good...but guess wrong and your Ghost dies in 1 hit (from Shadow ball)...or your Slaking dies in 1 hit (from Hyper Beam...if your Slaking has offensive EVs as most do). 50/50 chance of getting OHKOed, vs forcing Slaking to switch or take 1 regular hit. In reality the odds are against you, even with this strategy. If the rest of your team is Legendary, it may be better to just hit Slaking for 1 regular hit, then die, but let your next Pokemon finish him off (note that this doesn't stop Slaking from being one of the best Pokemon in the game, as he still would kill 1 Pokemon guaranteed).

Worse yet, if you guess wrong and your Ghost dies in 1 hit from Shadow Ball, Slaking will then be guaranteed to OHKO another Pokemon to follow...surely winning the match.

Now, if you were to add something like Skarmory to your team (dunno what offensive attacks Skarmory can hurt Slaking with, though) or other Steel or Rock type Pokemon (to withstand Hyper Beam)...and combine this with Levitating Ghosts and many Legendaries that naturally Levitate (Lati@s, Ho-oh, Lugia) a Normal-type pokemon like Slaking himself...the switching options you can get do indeed hurt Slaking a lot. This may be a decent counter...but again it's not a particularly powerful one. Now you've sacrificed at least 2 spots on your team to subpar Pokemon (1 Ghost type and 1 Steel type...unless maybe it's Jirachi) that could have been brute force Legendaries. Even if you weaken the Slaking a *little* with this strategy, your anti-Slaking specialist Pokemons might get blown away by 5 other brute force Legendaries and you still lose the match.
Posted by Don't Run With Scizors (Member # 2920) on 04-28-2004, 06:43 PM:
Get a Trapinch or Dugtrio with Protect.

Problem solved.
Posted by Porcupine (Member # 46) on 04-28-2004, 07:10 PM:
I don't think this works either.

For Trapinch or Dugtrio to kill Slaking, they have to switch in safely. This doesn't solve the fact that Slaking can OHKO anything in 1 turn. The previous Pokemon you had out has to be sacrificed to OHKO...only then can you bring out Trapinch and Dugtrio and kill Slaking for free guaranteed.

Slaking would still be the most powerful Pokemon in the game even against that strategy...because he will have killed an initial Pokemon guaranteed.

For the same purpose, I could use either Lati@s with Soul Dew. After a Pokemon is regrettably sacrificed to Slaking...Lati@s can come out, is faster, and can kill it in 2 turns for free without being hit (under the EV/Nature system). Under the old DVs system Slaking can barely survive 2 hits from Lati@s, but it's balanced because under the old DVs system most Legendaries can also barely survive 1 hit from Slaking Choice Banded Hyper Beam.

To honestly weaken Slaking enough to prevent him from being a staple, perhaps the ultimate Pokemon, your team has to be able to at least have a chance to destroy him before he destroys one of your Pokemon.
Posted by Porygone (Member # 805) on 04-28-2004, 11:12 PM:
Slaking falls easily.

Turn 1
Your Pokemon uses Protect.
Slaking's attack misses.

Turn 2
Your Pokemon uses Toxic.
Slaking is poisoned and Truant.

Turn 3
Your Pokemon uses Protect.
Slaking attack misses.

Turn 4
Your Pokemon uses whatever.
Slaking is truant.

Continue until your Pokemon's attacks and the poison finish off Slaking.
Posted by TeLeFonE (Member # 2293) on 04-29-2004, 08:03 PM:
Originally posted by Don't Run With Scizors:
Get a Trapinch or Dugtrio with Protect.

Problem solved.

The thing is Slaking is indeed a dominant force, but the above option is by far the easiest way to deal with it. Sure you lose a pokemon, but with Slaking's attack as high as it is, that's better than losing two or three potentially.

Though honestly, Smeargle rapes it if it does a suicide mission and happens to be out.

Say as an example Slaking is the lead... it is fairly common in the starter slot. Smeargle is the other lead. Smeargle uses Endure, Slaking Hypers. Smeargle has a Salace Berry which activates. Smeargle uses Endeavor on turn two while Slaking sits there. Smeargle has the speed advantage on turn 3 and KO's with Seismic Toss. This works out nice in that the next pokemon comes out and can potentially be Spored and another free Endeavor ensues.. etc. Quick Attack screws this over pretty well as well as ghosts, but it does solve the Slaking problem as well as throws a dent into the opponent's team.

EDIT: I also recall on irc there being several times when Slaking was so popular that Protect was seen all over the place. That and huge amounts of Skarmory appearing. Magneton and Slaking together took care of that though.

[ 04-29-2004, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: TeLeFonE ]
Posted by MK (Member # 1445) on 04-29-2004, 08:14 PM:
At my big 4 person tournament I went to, I used Choice Band Slaking and I slaughtered everyone... everything SANS Skarmory was OHKO'ed by Haiper Beem!
Posted by Porcupine (Member # 46) on 04-30-2004, 04:06 PM:
Thus far not a single person has replied with a honest way to stop Slaking.

As I mentioned in my first post, it is quite easy to stop Slaking in a 1v1 battle if you are using a Pokemon designed to beat him (namely, one with Protect...or other options like Choice Banded Aerodactyl with HP Fighting). However in a 6v6 battle the opponent will NOT likely start with Slaking (though it's always a guessing game). Slaking will be brought out in response to a previous Pokemon dying. That way, no response is possible by the opponent. Then, Slaking OHKOs automatically (either that, or a risky 50/50 guessing game as initially described).

It does not matter if Slaking is killed afterwards. Just bring in Mewtwo or Lati@s and you can wipe out Slaking in 2 hits for free. The point is that Slaking can always be used to automatically kill a Pokemon for free...then switched out (maybe after recovering from Hyper Beam) and possibly used just once more in the same manner later in the match. 2 Pokemon for 1 guaranteed will make Slaking the best Pokemon in the game. One needs to find a way to stop this. Really, you need to make sure Slaking cannot destroy even 1 Pokemon guaranteed when he is used in this manner by a skilled player.

The best suggestion given so far was the first one...the Ghost/Normal switch 50/50. I guess this does weaken Slaking considerably, if the rest of your team is powerful Legendaries like Lati@s or Mewtwo. Then, even if you guess wrong and your Ghost is OHKOed...Mewtwo or Lati@s can be thrown in and kill Slaking in 2 hits for free. And if you guess right, you will win the match.

Other good ways to beat Slaking that I've thought up recently are Brightpowder/Lax Incense (reduce Hyper Beam's accuracy to 80%)...and the same Protect trick...but you don't need to give all 6 of your Pokemon Protect. If you even give 2 Pokemon long as it's random and the enemy can't predict which ones have the Protect...his Slaking has to play a guessing game just to know when to switch in, or be matched up against, a Pokemon who doesn't know Protect.
Posted by Porcupine (Member # 46) on 04-30-2004, 04:25 PM:
Hrmm...on IRC what kind of clauses do people use?

I haven't ever played RSbot before...only GSbot and PBSes. Don't really like the way RS plays out...too offensive. But I guess I'm interested a little. [Smile] I probably know more RS battle strategy of anyone who has never battled before in RS, hehe.

Do they use Legendary clauses? I wouldn't even consider playing unless no clauses are present. If it's in the game, it's in the game. [Wink] It's not like I need a Gameshark to get Groudon and Kyogre without cheating. The only clauses I could see as being plausible are no Mew (maybe no Celebi, not sure if he can be gotten legally in America for Ruby/Sapphire generation), etc. But no one would use Mew anyways...he's too weak now, because he is not a BRUTE like the R/S system enforces. Boo hoo. [Smile] Mew used to be the #1 Pokemon in the game in Red/Blue days, back when defense ruled the game. Pretty good in G/S too, he could be a Horn Drilling maniac among other things. But now he's just a wuss and can't do anything. [Smile]
Posted by Porygone (Member # 805) on 04-30-2004, 05:20 PM:
Meh. What about a Ghost Pokemon with Mean Look, Toxic, and Protect? Off the top of my head.

Now I want to raise a Slaking.
Posted by Donald (Member # 1551) on 04-30-2004, 11:20 PM:
Originally posted by Porcupine:
Thus far not a single person has replied with a honest way to stop Slaking.

"Hi, my name is Heracross, I have Endure, Reversal, and a Salac Berry, and I'm gonna WHOOP YOUR ASS!"
Posted by MK (Member # 1445) on 05-01-2004, 04:27 PM:
Right now my Slaking has

Haiper Beem!
and [geeze I can't remember my last attack, maybe it's Encore]

Anyway, I should probably ditch a move for Shadow Ball shouldn't I? A ghost type would 0wn me too badly... [with levitate it would be immune to Earthquake and HAIPER BEEM!!!]

I like Donald's idea ^_^
Posted by LanderZRPG (Member # 1615) on 05-03-2004, 09:16 AM:
What about this:

Slaking comes in.

Poke has Protect. It uses it. Slaking misses.

Now, bring in the 202 Trapinch.

So long as Slaking didn't switch that turn [which it might have, sad to say], Toxic will win it for you.

Unless you're playing on the bots and have my kind of luck, where even a normal Protect, un-used yet, has a 50% work rate.

Karpe Diem