This is topic Lanturn vs. Kyogre Question in forum Oddish Memorial Lecture Hall at The Azure Heights Forum.


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Posted by DocMui (Member # 829) on 04-24-2003, 12:56 PM:
 
Just wondering exactly how long the following theoretical Lanturn could last against Kyogre (level 100, personality data not included--assume stalemate personalities for both):

Lanturn @ Leftovers

Surf
Confuse Ray
Thunder Wave
Thunder

Kyogre @ Chesto Berry

Surf
Calm Mind
Ice Beam
Rest

I personally think that, with Lanturn's less-than-stellar speed, it wouldn't survive much more than one Surf from Kyogre. Perhaps a Quick Claw could give Lanturn a chance to make up the speed difference, and then keep it up with Thunder Wave? Either that, or breeding Amnesia for Lanturn might increase its lifespan by a tad. I personally would love to see Kyogre being fried continuously by Thunder, but admittedly, the movesets aren't all that great.

A slight divergence from the topic: Who is the preferred Kyogre-killer nowadays?

--DocMui
 
Posted by SDShamshel (Member # 791) on 04-25-2003, 12:38 AM:
 
I'd think Kyogre would rather pack Thunder in order to waste water types, but eh.

As strong as Kyogre is, its Surfs will only be dealing halved damage (or .75 or whatever), enough for Lanturn to survive 3 or so surfs anyway. Lanturn has impressive HP too. It's only Surf, after all. Hydro Pump would be the nasty one. If it calm minds the turn afterwards, it can eat a Thunder Wave, and it if wants to rest then you can start blasting it or roar it out with a different Pokemon.

Now Sheer Cold Kyogre, that's something you have to watch out for.

Also, if you're REALLY equipping Lanturn to take out Kyogre, Lanturn breeds for Amnesia.

Wailord breeds for Fissure, and can take a beating, especially from the water types.

Shedinja is immune to nearly everything Kyogre learns. The only thing that'll harm it is Ancientpower, Hail, Rock Tomb, and Sandstorm, and it's unlikely you'll see ANY of those moves on it.

[ 04-25-2003, 12:44 AM: Message edited by: SDShamshel ]
 
Posted by Mr.E (Member # 696) on 04-25-2003, 02:54 AM:
 
Kyogre can also Toxic (like everything else), and Hidden Power if you wanna include it. Not that it matters. Besides, Shedinja would stall at best, it doesn't actually kill much of anything though.

As for on-hand, Lanturn is about the best guy I could think of for taking on Kyogre. Surf, assuming anything but max SA+Personality as well as mega-low Lanturn SD+HP, is a 4HKO. Hydro Pump and Water Spout are more dangerous, but Water Spout's only gonna be a one-time thing and Pump has low PP. Any FPs or confusion hits lets Lanturn survive even longer as well as a free Tbolt/Thunder shot.

Ludicolo is nice as well. It has 299 max SD, good HP, and is 4x resistant to water. Depending on trait, it's either quicker than Kyogre or recovers HP in Kyogre's Drizzle. It can also be bred for Leech Seed (and Synthesis). Dunno what you'd really do against it for kills, though. Grass attacks are much weaker than Electric attacks...

Kingdra is 4x resistant to Water, as well, and has genrally good Defenses. If you have a Dragon Dance-based moveset, Kingdra could probably beat Kyogre, but otherwise you'll just be stalling until it Calm Minds up and beats you.

Swampert can learn Mirror Coat, and Endeavor. Both can do good damage, but Endeavor won't actually kill... Argh I am bored of this. =P
 
Posted by Charmeleon42 (Member # 1066) on 04-25-2003, 03:34 AM:
 
Shedinja would stall at best, it doesn't actually kill much of anything though.

With the benefit of Personality, his attack at max DV can be 306.

That's not too bad, and it's probably going to be the stat your going to personality-upping-wise prefer on him anyway. His Speed and S.Att will only be boosted up to 196 and 174 respectively, Defense and S.Defense... dont even kid.

Also, Kyogre's will most likely have their Stat Exp. mainly in both Special stats (as it would more commonly fear electric and grass). Maybe some points into Defense, but not the majority, and certainly not enough to make it a good stat even if it had all 252 Stat. Exp in it. Even then its a 248-279 stat, and with points not neccessarily in HP, it'll do a nice percentage from a STABed Silver Wind from a 272-306 Shedinja.

EDIT: Or Shadow Ball. STAB and more base damage, now that I think of it.

Shedinja could do decent damage... not a bad option if he wasn't fragile to anything else the other person you were battling were to swap in.

[ 04-25-2003, 03:38 AM: Message edited by: Charmeleon42 ]
 
Posted by Uiru (Member # 437) on 04-25-2003, 06:40 AM:
 
Latios Soul Dew Calm Mind Thunderbolt GG Kyogre.

Latios is the one Legendary in the game you can rely on to sack every other Legendary in the game.
~Uiru
 
Posted by Zeni (Member # 3109) on 04-25-2003, 06:50 AM:
 
Shedinja can also learn Swords Dance. A stabbed Shadowball (after pumping attack) would do tons of damage.
 
Posted by Mr.E (Member # 696) on 04-25-2003, 07:38 AM:
 
And the Latis are debatably even more 00ber and lame than Kyogre, Uiru. Don't even kid me.

Anyway, as for Shedinja, it wouldn't be a bad option, except for the little fact that Spikes is very common and Shedinja is instantly killed by them. =\
 
Posted by Dark_Herakurosu (Member # 1677) on 04-27-2003, 01:12 AM:
 
Ice Beam > Latios.

And I doubt anyone using Kyogre will have the patience for Spikes anyway. They'd also risk having Spikes put on them. Even so, if someone knew of the whole Shedonja problem, I'd expect them to always put Spikes down. Another solution to the Kyogre problem is any status problem. Since most Kyogres won't be packing Rest, that is. Toxic, but then you'd have to find some way to survive the turns required. I just wish the amn leviathan had a gender, so it could be Attracted for a fair kill. Meh. I may need some help from Ahab here. (Speaking of which, elf-destruction looks like a good anti-Kyogre/Latios prospect.)
 
Posted by veloS (Member # 2636) on 05-08-2003, 08:27 AM:
 
Best Ky00ber killer: Slaking.

One Hyper beam with choice band really fucks him up. You won't even need that band, if you trained for EV's or have the right personality.

Plus, he can take a lot of shit from ky00ber before fainting.
 
Posted by DocMui (Member # 829) on 05-09-2003, 01:27 PM:
 
I submit to those of the board my refined potential Kyogre-killing Lanturn, nicknamed "Thorgetful."

Lanturn @ Leftovers
Personality: Anything that boosts SA or SD
Volt Absorb (in case Kyogre strikes first with Thunder)

Surf
Amnesia
Thunder Wave
Thunder

Strategy: Take the first hit, then paralyze with Thunder Wave. Strike with Thunder and build up with Amnesia when necessary to stay ahead of Kyogre's Calm Mind.

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions. [Smile]

veloS: Yes, Slaking would really put the hurt on Kyogre, but as I understand it, Choice Band doesn't allow you to use any other moves. If Kyogre decides to keep on the offensive instead of resting/using Calm Mind, things could end up bad. Also, Hyper Beam is 90% accurate, which means that one miss could give Kyogre the opportunity to wipe the floor with you. Just IMHO, of course.

--DocMui
 
Posted by DrFuko (Member # 2176) on 05-10-2003, 01:39 AM:
 
Hell yeah, my Slaking maxed at 432 Att. Scary, aint it?
 
Posted by Mr.E (Member # 696) on 05-10-2003, 04:15 AM:
 
Not as skary as those Skarmory everyone and their brother use.
 
Posted by Donald (Member # 1551) on 05-10-2003, 12:03 PM:
 
Scary thought: Slaking with Hyper Beam, Hydro Cannon (lol rock wut), Blast Burn (die skarmo), and a filler.

It's got the Special Attack to pull it off.
 
Posted by Charmeleon42 (Member # 1066) on 05-10-2003, 02:49 PM:
 
Slaking vs. Anything with protect and half a brain = no more Slaking.
 
Posted by veloS (Member # 2636) on 05-11-2003, 06:39 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Charmeleon42:
Slaking vs. Anything with protect and half a brain = no more Slaking.

True. But for n00bs, the battle tower and more n00bs, it's fun.
 
Posted by Thomaz (Member # 3330) on 05-14-2003, 04:35 AM:
 
How can you teach your pokemon Blastburn and Hydro Cannon? [Confused]
 
Posted by MYK (Member # 2568) on 05-14-2003, 05:18 AM:
 
Thomaz - You can't.

As for Slaking, he has shit Spec. Def, so gg Slaking v. Kyogre.
 
Posted by veloS (Member # 2636) on 05-14-2003, 05:54 AM:
 
True, but Slaking's faster. That, with a good hyper beam = no more ky00ber.
 
Posted by 137 (Member # 1465) on 06-03-2003, 01:27 AM:
 
Either I'm illiterate, or my Nintendo Power guide is missing something (which wouldn't surprise me, as it doesn't include Soul Dew either). What in hell is Blast Burn?
 
Posted by Donald (Member # 1551) on 06-03-2003, 09:22 AM:
 
Blast Burn, Hydro Cannon, and Frenzy Plant are three moves that aren't attainable in RS but are in the coding.

They're Fire, Water, and Grass Hyper Beams (150 power, 90 acc, 5 PP, recharge).
 
Posted by TIDUSBLITZABESX (Member # 3390) on 06-03-2003, 02:33 PM:
 
Since I have Ruby I never used KYOGRE before. You can always use a Slaking (which has the best attack power in the game!) with Hyper Beam, Focus Punch, Rest, and Sleep talk. He also has good all around stats too. Surf could put Lanturn to rest in one shot, reason being is You know KYOGRE's ability Drizzle that ups his water power for one thing! THen you have the high special attack with Kyogre. Better yet you can also teach Kyogre Thunder and it would hit with 100% accurate with the ability drizzle. It is because Drizzle is a power up move like Rainy Day. So with all this in affect I think it is very possible to wipe out a Lanturn in one shot with surf. Just the combonation is there. That is what makes Kyogre almost the best in the game for you Lucky Saphire players! You can get him before you fight the elite four too!

One more thing you can try powerful Dragon Type such as Salamence, RayQuaza, or Latias/Latios. They might be able to take him out??
 
Posted by Dark_Herakurosu (Member # 1677) on 06-03-2003, 08:27 PM:
 
Notice Ice Beam. Ice is super-effective on Dragons, or so I've heard [Roll Eyes] . Also, if we didn't take into consideration Drizzle and Thunder, why do you think we'd say Kyogre is an oober? In addition, Kyogre's Thunder can't do much against Lanturn's Volt Absorb ability.

[ 06-03-2003, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: Dark_Herakurosu ]
 
Posted by dAyWaLkEr (Member # 3343) on 06-04-2003, 10:01 PM:
 
i think i'd rather lose a gengar and destiny bond the bastard into oblivion.

or somethin w/ encore and DB (forgot if Gar can grab the clapper)
 
Posted by DocMui (Member # 829) on 06-05-2003, 10:26 AM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by TIDUSBLITZABESX:
Surf could put Lanturn to rest in one shot, reason being is You know KYOGRE's ability Drizzle that ups his water power for one thing! THen you have the high special attack with Kyogre. Better yet you can also teach Kyogre Thunder and it would hit with 100% accurate with the ability drizzle. It is because Drizzle is a power up move like Rainy Day. So with all this in affect I think it is very possible to wipe out a Lanturn in one shot with surf. Just the combonation is there.

Hm, let's do some math, shall we?

Kyogre using Surf has these multipliers:

1.5 STAB (Same Type Attack Bonus) x 2.0 with Drizzle active = 3.0 times damage.

However, since Lanturn is a Water-type, and Water is resistant to the same type of attacks, that means that whatever damage done to it is halved.

So, in the end, you just have the damage caused from STAB, barring a lucky critical hit. Since Lanturn's Special Defense is not inconsiderable, it can survive a few hits, long enough to paralyze Kyogre and tip the odds more in the former's favor.

BTW, I've been thinking about replacing Surf on Thorgetful with Confuse Ray, making it a strictly parafuse critter. After all, if I'm making a strictly anti-Kyogre Lanturn, it really doesn't make sense to hit water with water.

Of course, if Kyogre is sporting a Lum berry, things might get a tad more complex. Then again, that just means that Lanturn would have to take another hit before paralyzing Kyogre. Again, barring a critical hit, I think Lanturn can handle it.

--DocMui (who's wondering whether or not there should be a separate thread to discuss potential Kyogre killers)
 
Posted by White Cat (Member # 42) on 06-05-2003, 05:57 PM:
 
1.5 STAB (Same Type Attack Bonus) x 2.0 with Drizzle active = 3.0 times damage.

Drizzle (Rain Dance) gives a 1.5x boost, not 2x.
 
Posted by DocMui (Member # 829) on 06-06-2003, 05:28 PM:
 
quote:
Originally posted by White Cat:
1.5 STAB (Same Type Attack Bonus) x 2.0 with Drizzle active = 3.0 times damage.

Drizzle (Rain Dance) gives a 1.5x boost, not 2x.

I stand corrected.

So, that would be a total potential damage of 2.25 times normal. However, cut that in half, and we've got 1.125 times normal...a touch better than slapping Mystic Water on a critter that doesn't have STAB for water moves.

--DocMui
 
Posted by Rolken (Member # 7) on 06-07-2003, 11:39 AM:
 
Unless they only apply to the original damage instead of compounding, in which case it'd be 2x.
 
Posted by White Cat (Member # 42) on 06-08-2003, 06:27 PM:
 
They definitely compound, unless they made the BDF way more complicated in RS. [Trash Bear]
 
Posted by Face (Member # 1916) on 10-11-2006, 06:35 PM:
 
Lanturn vs Kyogre is unfair I tell ya!
 
Posted by Dredite (Member # 33) on 10-13-2006, 03:13 PM:
 
Honestly, Lanturn is fairly good at it, but most annoyer sets (T-wave/conf ray) will cause luck to become a pretty large factor, and since you're going after the special stat of the Kyogre, you may have trouble surviving if it manages to get several calm minds off. It'll ignore you and rest to victory at that point.

Also, I concur: If it's JUST for killing Kyogre, it's pointless to have surf... and it's actually not that bad of an idea, I suppose. Lanturn's a decent staller/annoy electric, and people would be very very wary on bringing in a ground against it, expecting the surf. Play to disguise move four until it's too late.

As for Kyogre users, it just depends. Surely ALL of you haven't ignored the UBER cup entirely? ;D I find it amusing to go in and play in the blow shit up league. Although I still use spikes in that.
 


Karpe Diem