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Author Topic: Level Cup -- the first test results.
Farting Nudist
Member # 689

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posted 05-15-2001 03:17 AM      Profile for Atma   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Out of boredem, I fired up Excel and found the levels to make every final evolution's total stats approximately equal to Ditto (who has the lowest total stats of 'em all). Then, using t6his rough Level Cup levels, I found a sucke... err, I mean, volunteer to test it. And, to see if the equalizing worked we used these teams (just for fun, we agreed to skip Amnesia):

Atma's team: Charizard, Alakazam, Lapras, Dragonite, Mewtwo, Rhydon

Givera's team (remember, they have higher levels): Golduck, Onix, Magmar, Parasect, MrMime, Farfetch'd

Yes, you heard that right. These pokemon were deliberately selected so that in ordinary level 100 play, it would be rout, but in Level Cup, it was... a rout going the other way! Yes, Giv's higher-level "weak" pokemon flattened my team of lower-level "strong" pokemon. the high point (or low point, depending on your perspective) was when Farfetch'd OHKOed Mewtwo.

Yes, you read that correctly.

At level 61, Mewtwo had the biggest stat loss, and at level 91 farfetch'd has the second lowest stat loss (after Ditto, whose stats were used to determine whatstats stay at level 100.) Anyway, I learned a few things from this...

(1) Evening out can definitely done, at least approximately...

(2) Using direct stat evening puts the "good" pokemon at too much of a disadvantage. Mewtwo and farfetch'd wind up with similar total stats, and about as many good moves, but in the damnage formula, the level variable is 50% higher for Farfetch'd. An idea I'm consideruing for setting new base levels (which will of course be modified): convert the directly evened-out levels to a decimal (Mewtwo's 61 for example becomes .61) and take the square roots (putting Mewtwo at 79 or so).

(3) Putting a level and selecting "use max stats" doesn't work, becausye it overruides the level eneterd with level 100.

(4) Sleep Clause is important -- Giv's Parasect managed to get half my team to sleep, partly because of #4 x_x

...and, most importantly...

(5) Avoid typos! Atma, you idiot, you put Recover and Rest on Alakazam instead of Recover and reflect! Even worse, you typoed Alakazam's Special as 184 insetad of 284! *smacks Atma repeatedly*

Oh, Mr. K, I'm sure you'll be happy to learn that in the preliminary stat equalizing, Hitmonlee wound up with the highest Attack of all 151 pokemon. Another oddity is that Mr. Mime wound up with higher Special than mewtwo (251 to 249)

And Onix is only 5 points ahead of ALAKAZAM in Attack...

"My name is Atma...
I am pure energy... and as ancient as the cosmos.
Forgotten in the river of time...
I've had an eternity to ponder the meaning of things...
And now I have an answer..."

From: Cinnabar Isle, Long Island, NY | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Farting Nudist
Member # 1017

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posted 05-15-2001 06:33 PM      Profile for moogleman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, now that you found all their evened out stats, you could just enter the stats manually. Since PBS let's you use level 100 pokes with whatever stats you put in, that way, the damage formula wouldn't be affected.


From: Kamloops, BC, Canada | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Farting Nudist
Member # 1635

posted 05-15-2001 09:57 PM      Profile for incompetent   Author's Homepage   Email incompetent   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Farfetch'd OHKOed mewtwo? Now this is a cup with potential!

"Extensive testing has proven that he's the best leek-wielding ninja duck in the game, and I stand by that." -Versus Books on Farfetch'd

From: California | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Farting Nudist
Member # 791

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posted 05-15-2001 11:32 PM      Profile for SDShamshel   Email SDShamshel   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But Mr. Mime with a higher special attack than that really what people want? Sure, it evens them out, but Mewtwo is a Pokemon meant to have the highest Special Attack. Evening out the Pokemon this much makes many of the Pokemon lose certain advantages that would otherwise be the only good things going for 'em.

When everyone is that close together in stats, it seems to get rid of part of the reason Pokemon is fun. Sure, it's fair and all, but how useful is CHansey when due to levels, its HP is on par with that of say...Kangaskhan? Combined with that horrific defense, it loses its main selling point. This may get lesser-used Pokemon to be used more often, but then due to those advantages, they'll be used perhaps TOO often.

"It looks like this is my lucky day. I'll take 'The Rapists' for 200."
"That's 'Therapists,' not 'The Rapists.'"
-(Saturday Night Live Celebrity Jeopardy Skit)

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From: Tokyo-3 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. K
Member # 2

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posted 05-16-2001 12:32 AM      Profile for Mr. K   Author's Homepage   Email Mr. K   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
SDShamshel: When everyone is that close together in stats, it seems to get rid of part of the reason Pokemon is fun.

Well, it certainly drastically changes the game. But that's the only way to make it so every Pokemon is viable.

There's going to be problems with any system.

He's obviously still got some bugs to work out, but it's an interesting experiment.

You do have a point about certain krappy Pokemon (eg, Parasect) being evened out with cool moves (eg, Spore). It should be interesting to see if certain Pokemon emerge as being the unstoppable forces, just as always happens whenever you draw the line somewhere...

"I still am yet to see your argument though." -mr k mouth

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged

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