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Member # 19

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posted 11-18-2003 01:56 PM      Profile for cfalcon   Email cfalcon   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote

Your task, if you choose to accept it:

Write up refutations to at least five of the hundred arguements contained in these pages. All are wrong, though some are the same arguement.

Should be fun.


From: 39°45' N, 104°52' W | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Member # 7

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posted 11-18-2003 03:00 PM      Profile for Rolken   Author's Homepage   Email Rolken   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, these guys again.

1. The aeronaut can see for himself that Earth is a Plane. The appearance presented to him, even at the highest elevation he has ever attained, is that of a concave surface - this being exactly what is to be expected of a surface that is truly level, since it is the nature of level surfaces to appear to rise to a level with the eye of the observer. This is ocular demonstration and proof that Earth is not a globe.

Level surfaces approximate slightly curved surfaces. (This goes for about 75% of the 'proofs.')

2. Whenever experiments have been tried on the surface of standing water, this surface has always been found to be level. If the Earth were a globe, the surface of all standing water would be convex. This is an experimental proof that Earth is not a globe.

No, it hasn't been found to be level, since adhesion will cause it to be slightly concave upwards (if you went to the trouble of removing the air to prevent atmospheric disturbances). It's a much stronger effect than the curvature of the Earth, anyhow.

4. There are rivers that flow for hundreds of miles towards the level of the sea without falling more than a few feet - notably, the Nile, which, in a thousand miles, falls but a foot. A level expanse of this extent is quite incompatible with the idea of the Earth's "convexity." It is, therefore, a reasonable proof that Earth is not a globe.

It falls a foot with respect to sea level, which is itself curved.

8. If the Earth were a globe, a small model globe would be the very best - because the truest - thing for the. navigator to take to sea with him. But such a thing as that is not known: with such a toy as a guide, the mariner would wreck his ship, of a certainty!, This is a proof that Earth is not a globe.

They're expensive and maps are good enough. I hope a mariner would not inadvertently run into a continent.

10.- That the mariners' compass points north and south at the same time is a fact as indisputable as that two and two makes four; but that this would be impossible if the thing, were placed on a globe with "north" and "south' at the centre of opposite hemispheres is a fact that does not figure in the school-books, though very easily seen: and it requires no lengthy train of reasoning to bring out of it a pointed proof that the Earth is not a globe.

A compass aligns itself with the magnetic axis; it points itself north and south in a straight line only in spherical geometry, which happily is how our world works.

Edit: It occured to me that most of what I wrote was evidence of a global world's consistence with reality, not refuting the notion of a flat one. Oh well, I'm taking a nap.

[ 11-18-2003, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Rolken ]

From: Provo, UT | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Date Rapist
Member # 1066

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posted 11-18-2003 04:52 PM      Profile for Charmeleon42   Author's Homepage   Email Charmeleon42   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
77. "Oh, but if the Earth is a plane, we could go to the edge and tumble over!" is a very common assertion. This is a conclusion that is formed too hastily, and facts overthrow it. The Earth certainly is, what man by his observation finds it to be, and what Mr. Proctor himself says it "seems" to be. flat - and we cannot cross the icy barrier which surrounds it. This is a complete answer to the objection, and, of course, a proof that Earth is not a globe.

So the "complete answer" is, to summarize what you Mr. Web Page said, is "But it looks flat! And theres a magical ice barrier at the ends."

That's a very wild allegation, to say that there is this never-before explored "ice barrier". And even then, could a plane not fly over it? This is no answer, it is lunacy. Mr. Web Page, the claim stands - what about your propos'ed edge of the world? There is none.

62. It is commonly asserted that "the Earth must be a globe because people have sailed round it." Now, since this implies that we can sail round nothing unless it be a globe, and the fact is well known that we can sail round the Earth as a plane, the assertion is ridiculous, and we have another proof that Earth is not a globe.

You cannot sail around a plane in a straight line, however. I very well could sail, or fly, in a straight line, and go all the way to where I started as I orbit the globe - not so in a plane, where I would fall off the non-existant edge.

Even then, this is a proof of nothing. Given, despite the torrent of illogic that would surrounds it, that you are right about this point, it does not "disprove" the Earth being a globe. It just presents a second way of going "around" something. It doesn't displace the first way.

64. Mr. Glaisher, in speaking of his balloon ascents, says: "The horizon always appears to be on a level with the car." Now, since we may search among the laws of optics in vain for any principle that would cause the surface of a globe to turn its face upwards instead of downwards, it is a clear proof that the Earth is not a globe.

When you are up in a balloon, you are not very high up at all, relative to the enormous size of the earth. You might be up high enough to make you, Mr. Web Page, deficate your trousers, but you are in reality very insignificantly off the ground. So the position of the horizon is irrelevant.

67. Seven-hundred miles is said to be the length of the great Canal, in China, Certain it is that, when this canal was formed, no "allowance" was made for "curvature." Yet the canal is a fact without it. This is a Chinese proof that the Earth is not a globe.

The miles that were used to measure the canal, the very unit of measurement itself, is "allowed" for "curvature". To illustrate this, take a melon, or some other sort of sphere, and draw a long, straight mark on it. One that includes a significant amount of curvature. Now, the only way to measure how long the mark is with a ruler is to bend the ruler along the curvature of the melon. That is how the "canal" was accurately measured - because there is no way to do the task with out "allowing" for the "curvature".

51. A "Standing Order" exists in the English Houses of Parliament that in the cutting of canals, &c., the datum line employed shall be a "horizontal line, which shall be the same throughout the whole length of the work." Now if the Earth were a globe, this "Order" could not be carried out: but, it is carried out: therefore it is a proof that the Earth is not a globe.

They keep the "datum line" level. That's not tricky, and it's certainly not a proof of anything. Unless these canals are going to be hundreds upon hundreds of miles long, the thousanth of a degree of earth curvature will be insignificant to the project. Even if it were, the line will simply be built horizontal to the builders relative location on the planet. This is proof of nothing.

From: Mountain Dew Land | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Farting Nudist
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posted 11-18-2003 06:09 PM      Profile for Ikuse   Author's Homepage   Email Ikuse   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
right after you're done with this, your next objective is to get a life
From: In my pants. | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Farting Nudist
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posted 11-18-2003 06:55 PM      Profile for Kazuki     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Originally posted by Ikuse:
right after you're done with this, your next objective is to get a life

Bam! Got 'im coach...

- - - - -
" When we get outta the 80's and into the 90's, we'll make the 60's look like the 50's. "

From: Seattle, WA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged

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