But the thing is, Mewtwo can learn the high level tms for each element as well... for instance what famous Mewtwo Killer could reliably take down one with Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Amnesia and Recover? It seems Thunderbolt on Mewtwo destroys Tobybro's chances even with the thunderwave ...

Explosioners and Self Destructers don't count ^_^

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*** Ace ***

quote:

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Originally posted by Acey:
for instance what famous Mewtwo Killer could reliably take down one with Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Amnesia and Recover?

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(this is all theoretical/head knowledge/speculation; I've never faced a Mewtwo, let alone tried to defeat one)

Could a Snorlax with Amnesia manage? I saw someone suggest this move set once, and it looks good in theory:
- Amnesia
- Double Team
- Rest
- Double-Edge

It would need setting up by a Jolteon/Electrode/insert-your-favourite-electric-type with Thunder Wave first.

*shrugs* I'm still in favour of a pre-match gentleman's agreement not to use Mewtwo at all; then both players can have a fun, fair, balanced game, and not have to worry about reserving at least one (maybe more) of their team members for use as a Mewtwo-killer.

(S'just my opinion; I know that pro-/anti-Mewtwo opinion here is just too polarized for a consensus ever to be reached).

You can't prepare for everything with just ONE moveset.

Your mewtwo loses to any normal pokemon, and basically any pokemon with a sleep attack (assuming you don't 1-hit ko it with a critical of course).

A grep will defeat status changers (except for faster pokemon of course) but will probably lose to a pyschic type with lightscreen/amensia in a drawn out battle.

An all out offensive Mewtwo (fireblast/thunderbolt/blizzard/recover) will more than likely lose to another mewtwo/mew or any normal based pokemon.

it's simply impossible to prepare for EVERY moveset/pokemon type out their with one pokemon. Their's about a billion counters to everyone's anti-mewtwo, the trick is using your anti-anti-mewtwo against their anti-mewtwo, without picking the wrong moveset for the job.

That's where luck comes into play.

Whoomp

Anyway, the point of this post was that IMO those famous "Mewtwo Killers" aren't so good since Mewtwo can easily become a "Mewtwo Killer Killer" to someone at least a little competant ^_^. Mewtwo killers always seem to focus on the Psychic orientated Mewtwo. But like I said there is a whole ton of great tms Mewtwo can take advantage of (the moveset I gave was just an example). And with Amnesia he does not need the Same Type Bonus ... 999 special punches through anything without some sort of defence ... Light Screen and amnesiaing up too could work, but it'll still do quite a bit of damage in LS's case, Mewtwo will always have amnesiad up first like before .. say ... Slobro ... since they need to amnesia thrice ... and like I said, a good chance of frozen if the Mewtwo uses ice moves to punch away with - if Thunderbolt isn't already super effective against it (like normals).

Oh yeah and sleep sucks now in Stadium. It's not worth it ... (I guess I'm going with Stadium here - that's all I ever use now to battle with).

Lates! Oh yeah and don't get me wrong, I'm not a Mewtwo lover (I'm actually a Pikachu fan - he's not weak he isn't! Okay he's weak =p). Just that whenever I see a Mewtwo Killer Pokemon, I can easily see that it's not as simple as all that... maybe the one with the best chance on a special orientated Mewtwo would be that "Molly Nut Bomb" Chancey ... if it ever survived to get to 6 Double Teams with a bit of luck ...

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*** Ace ***

I agree there are probably really no true Mewtwo killers.

There are several ways to defeat your particular Mewtwo. PP wasting Snorlax, Chansey, and Alakazam will work OK but not great, just like you talked about. Explosioners DO count, and would crush that Mewtwo. Selfdestruct is also one of the best moves to put on Snorlax. Sword dancing Mew Hyperbeamer would CRUSH that Mewtwo, but Mew isn't necessarily a legal pokemon.

Hrm. I think Gengar might crush that as well (is ice or electric strong/weak against poison, i dunno). But Parasect would do a little worse against that.

Is Hypno one of the best Mewtwo killers? Hypno would trash that setup...in fact doesn't Hypno trash nearly all Mewtwo's setups? No one ever talks about Hypno, I think he could be the best anti-Mewtwo pokemon.

Electrode used Twave
M2 amnesia

Electrode uses Explosion
M2 amnesia

Snorlax- uses amnesia
M2 uses amnesia

Snorlax Amnesia
M2 Tbolt-Icebeam

Lax Amneisa
M2 tbolt Ibeam

Las rest
Its over now I think barring Crithits.
Now that may take two pokes, and it used an explosion, but now you have a fully amnesiad Lax. I think a lax with Dedge Rest Nesia and Surf\icebeam is the best

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Mewtwo used Amnesia
Mew used Thunder Wave

Mew used Swords Dance
Mewtwo's fully paralysed

Mew used Swords Dance
Mewtwo's fully paralysed

Mew used Swords Dance
Mewtwo used Amnesia

If I get hit by Psychic, I'm dead for sure. I have to take out Mewtwo!

Mew used Explosion
Critical Hit

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My Sandslash will destroy all in it's path

Mew Hyperbeamer in Stadium IMO is just like an explosioner ... even if you do get to kill the Mewtwo with it, you always have to wait a turn ... someone else comes in and destroys the Mew (who by the time it SDs up enough ends up being quite a bit weakened)

As for Gengar ... remember here that you're not supposed to know what the Mewtwo's moves are (let's say tourney settings). Everyone always assumes Mewtwo has Psychic and will be too afriad to use Gengar. But even so if you put Gengar in, if it doesn't have amnesia or light screen, it will still die to amnesia Mewtwo pretty easily no matter what elemental moves it has.

As for Hypno ... how did you get the idea he'd be a great Mewtwo killer? I was looking at the type rankings ... it doesn't really have outstanding stats to other psychic pokes you could use. It's signature sleep combo is crap in stadium ... he is also quite slow compared to other psychics ...

And Wizzymoto, M2 only needs to amnesia twice ... and even if Snorlax managed to amnesia to max (only 912 with Snorlax max special - compared to M2's 999), it'll still get damaged a bit and ice beam will likely end up freezing it in a PP war ...

It only gets worse if Mewtwo squeezes in substitute or double team as well =P. I wonder how a Psychic, amnesia, Double Team, rest Mewtwo would turn out ... (or replace the psychic with your move of the day. Ice Beam, Thunderbolt ... whatever).

I do know a way you could kind of test your "Mewtwo Killers" though. Make up some Mewtwos in Stadium, then register them, then play against them in free battle. See how you go. (although the cpu is dumb sometimes even if you put them on hard).

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*** Ace ***

besides, I find that chansey does just a good a job as mewtwo at beating the other guy.

mewtwo:
fireblast
thunder(bolt)
blizzard
recover

chansey:
fireblast
thunder(bolt)
blizzard
softboiled

so chansey is just as good as mewtwo, even moreso with the surprise element(nobody thinks anything of chansey)and that ludicrous HP that we all know and love more than makes up for mewtwos marginally higher special.

in closing, the mewtwo killers are only to be used for the 90% of the unknowledgable trainers and not us lucky few who have gained access to this site.

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where does a snorlax sit?

quote:

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Originally posted by BiG GULP 44oz:
just check my "BIOHAZARD" post to see a mewtwo that can destroy any "mewtwo killers"...

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...except another Mewtwo, which you're far more likely to run into than any specially-designed M2-killers.

M2 needs no intelligence, no modification, no skill, and barely any exp. He's just not fun to play with...for me, at least.