The Azure Heights Forum: A Classless Society

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Topic: A Classless Society

IceHawk78
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posted 04-08-2004 03:42 PM $Profile for IceHawk78$ $Author's Homepage$ $Email IceHawk78$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

...is one in which most Merkins say they want, yet would never actually achieve due to their innate desire to be above someone else. But enough of that, go vote!

Poll Information
This poll contains 3 question(s). 35 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

From: Ohio | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged

Anthrax
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posted 04-08-2004 04:04 PM $Profile for Anthrax$ $Author's Homepage$ $Email Anthrax$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

a hunter-gatherer society is the only society that can be classless, and even then it's not always the case

thread over

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She told The Associated Press she first realized her son was mentally ill in 1996 when he killed her oldest child, a 25-year-old woman who suffered from cerebral palsy, by beating her with a dumbbell.

From: Somebody put shit in my pants! | Registered: Apr 2000 | IP: Logged

MewtwoSama
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posted 04-08-2004 05:45 PM $Profile for MewtwoSama$ $Author's Homepage$ $Email MewtwoSama$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

I want to live in Klingon society. They yell a lot.

From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000 | IP: Logged

MK
is somewhat large.
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posted 04-08-2004 06:12 PM $Profile for MK$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

without a level of classes you have communism... and communism doesn't work!

Long live capitalism [Smile]

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Charmeleon42
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posted 04-08-2004 06:15 PM $Profile for Charmeleon42$ $Author's Homepage$ $Email Charmeleon42$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

Exactly... a classless society is, literally, the exact definition of communism.

If Merkins say they want a classless society, then they need to hit the history books.

From: Mountain Dew Land | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

Mentar the Malady Monkey
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posted 04-08-2004 07:24 PM $Profile for Mentar the Malady Monkey$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

quote:
Originally posted by IceHawk78:
...is one in which most Merkins say they want, yet would never actually achieve due to their innate desire to be above someone else.

Wow. Fucking wow. This whole "lol classless society/libertarian socialism/libertarian communism/anarchism won't work because people are greedy!!!1" is the same fucking argument cappies and totalitarians alike have been using against classless rule for hundreds of years... think maybe anyone would have come up with a better one by now?

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WHAT.

From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged

Random Loser
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posted 04-08-2004 07:25 PM $Profile for Random Loser$ $Email Random Loser$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

And if you'll bother to hit them yourselves, you'll realize that a true communist state has yet to be realized, and thus hitting the history books would do very little to dissuade one from wishing we lived in one. For the most part it is the 'ideal' state of society, simply not particularly feasible due to human nature...

EDIT:

quote:
Originally posted by Mentar the Malady Monkey:
think maybe anyone would have come up with a better one by now?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[ 04-08-2004, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: Random Loser ]

From: Uni of Virginny | Registered: Feb 2001 | IP: Logged

ceoalex316
Time for the flaming leprosy party
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posted 04-08-2004 07:49 PM $Profile for ceoalex316$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

I don't want stupid people making the same amount of money as me

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Anthrax
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posted 04-08-2004 08:27 PM $Profile for Anthrax$ $Author's Homepage$ $Email Anthrax$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

HELLO PEOPLE I SAID THREAD OVER IN THE FIRST REPLY

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She told The Associated Press she first realized her son was mentally ill in 1996 when he killed her oldest child, a 25-year-old woman who suffered from cerebral palsy, by beating her with a dumbbell.

From: Somebody put shit in my pants! | Registered: Apr 2000 | IP: Logged

MewtwoSama
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posted 04-08-2004 09:17 PM $Profile for MewtwoSama$ $Author's Homepage$ $Email MewtwoSama$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

quote:
Originally posted by ceoalex316:
I don't want stupid people making the same amount of money as me

Ferengi, MK too

From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000 | IP: Logged

IceHawk78
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posted 04-08-2004 10:12 PM $Profile for IceHawk78$ $Author's Homepage$ $Email IceHawk78$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

quote:
Originally posted by Anthrax:
HELLO PEOPLE I SAID THREAD OVER IN THE FIRST REPLY

Yes, but your singlehanded reign of terror has come to an end. And if you delete this post or anything in this topic, then you will be appeasing... yourself... and then Wintermute will have to come in and wipe the floor with everyone.

From: Ohio | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged

MewtwoSama
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posted 04-08-2004 10:17 PM $Profile for MewtwoSama$ $Author's Homepage$ $Email MewtwoSama$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

they are Q, I wouldnt mess with them.

From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000 | IP: Logged

Mr. K
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posted 04-09-2004 03:35 AM $Profile for Mr. K$ $Author's Homepage$ $Email Mr. K$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

From: Cinnabar Island | Registered: Feb 2000 | IP: Logged

IceHawk78
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posted 04-09-2004 10:03 AM $Profile for IceHawk78$ $Author's Homepage$ $Email IceHawk78$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

Hm... This is interesting. I would have thought more people would have talking about the second and third questions, but I guess the definitions of Upper/Middle/Lower levels of Upper/Middle/Lower classes is pretty much universal. Thanks for being my guinea pigs for that.

Now to write a simple 5 page paper explaining the results...

From: Ohio | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged

Bulbasaur3000
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posted 04-09-2004 04:35 PM $Profile for Bulbasaur3000$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

I found it funny how nobody here will admit to being associated with the Upper Class.

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This signature sucks. Why is it here?

From: Plano, TX =( | Registered: May 2001 | IP: Logged

MewtwoSama
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posted 04-09-2004 04:41 PM $Profile for MewtwoSama$ $Author's Homepage$ $Email MewtwoSama$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

the two guys above this post are T'lani, for no reason at all

From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000 | IP: Logged

MewtwoSama
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posted 04-09-2004 09:47 PM $Profile for MewtwoSama$ $Author's Homepage$ $Email MewtwoSama$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

That looks like the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition. We have another Ferengi

From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000 | IP: Logged

ceoalex316
Time for the flaming leprosy party
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posted 04-10-2004 02:03 AM $Profile for ceoalex316$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

quote:
Originally posted by Bulbasaur3000:
I found it funny how nobody here will admit to being associated with the Upper Class.

Maybe no one is associated with the upper class.

From: NYC | Registered: Apr 2000 | IP: Logged

Rolken
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posted 04-10-2004 03:03 AM $Profile for Rolken$ $Author's Homepage$ $Email Rolken$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

EVERYONE here is associated with the upper class for being lucky enough to live in the richest country in the world instead of some poverty-stricken African slum, you ungrateful wankers.

you brits stay out of this.

From: Provo, UT | Registered: Feb 2000 | IP: Logged

Mentar the Malady Monkey
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posted 04-10-2004 03:14 AM $Profile for Mentar the Malady Monkey$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

Somehow, though, I get the idea the question was differentiating between "do you live in an apartment, the suburbs, or a mansion in the countryside," not "do you live in Amerika or one of the 170+ poor countries with little electricity/sanitation/freedom/food".

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WHAT.

From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged

Boodabonzi
like a virgin
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posted 04-10-2004 06:59 AM $Profile for Boodabonzi$ $Email Boodabonzi$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

quote:
Originally posted by Rolken:
EVERYONE here is associated with the upper class for being lucky enough to live in the richest country in the world instead of some poverty-stricken African slum, you ungrateful wankers.

you brits stay out of this.

lol this thread is like the geography lessons I slept through. You can have your shitty discussion.

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OK, I know I'm probably not the nicest Pokemon Trainer when it comes to giving advice, and if I get flamed on this, it is probably well deserved. So here goes...

From: Hitchin - biggest little shanty town in all of England | Registered: Jul 2002 | IP: Logged

NintendoLover
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posted 04-10-2004 01:38 PM $Profile for NintendoLover$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

Jesus loves the little children
All the children of the world
Jews and niggers, kykes and wops
Jesus thinks they all are TOPS
Jesus loves the children of the world

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I love Nintendo!

Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged

White Cat
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posted 04-11-2004 04:47 AM $Profile for White Cat$ $Author's Homepage$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

This whole "lol classless society/libertarian socialism/libertarian communism/anarchism won't work because people are greedy!!!1" is the same fucking argument cappies and totalitarians alike have been using against classless rule for hundreds of years... think maybe anyone would have come up with a better one by now?

Yeah, and this whole "lol the Earth is round and revolves around the Sun" is the same argument that scientists and astronomers alike have been using against geocentrism for hundreds of years... think maybe anyone would have come up with a better one by now?

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"Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula?"
-- Barack Obama, campaigning in Iowa

From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000 | IP: Logged

Mentar the Malady Monkey
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posted 04-11-2004 10:27 PM $Profile for Mentar the Malady Monkey$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

quote:
Originally posted by White Cat:
BOY I SURE LOVE FALSE ANALOGIES

Except that that's not their argument, it's their conclusion, genius. And they've come up with no shortage of new reasons why the earth revolves around the sun. Doesn't anyone have ANY new arguments against libertarian socialism, especially given that this system has NEVER been tried on a large scale?

edit: brevity and tags

[ 04-12-2004, 12:33 AM: Message edited by: Mentar the Malady Monkey ]

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WHAT.

From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged

Charmeleon42
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posted 04-12-2004 02:16 AM $Profile for Charmeleon42$ $Author's Homepage$ $Email Charmeleon42$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

Does the lack of new arguments discredit their position?

Didn't think so.

From: Mountain Dew Land | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

Mentar the Malady Monkey
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posted 04-12-2004 02:28 AM $Profile for Mentar the Malady Monkey$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

quote:
Originally posted by Charmeleon42:
Does the lack of new arguments discredit their position?

Didn't think so.

The fact that there hasn't been a new one since the fucking 18th century* means there's a severe lack of originality. After all, if there are so many glaring flaws in it, there should be no shortage of new ideas as people continue to advance: instead, most are content to repeat "HUMAN NATURE IS GREEDY BLAH BLAH" ad infinitum.

*I know this precedes Marx, don't bother pointing it out

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WHAT.

From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged

White Cat
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posted 04-12-2004 05:28 AM $Profile for White Cat$ $Author's Homepage$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

Doesn't anyone have ANY new arguments against libertarian socialism, especially given that this system has NEVER been tried on a large scale?

It's been tried for up to eighty years in two of the largest countries on Earth, plus a bunch of smaller ones, and completely failed to achieve its "classless" and "libertarian" objectives.

*insert standard "Blah blah that wasn't really socialism so it doesn't count wah wah" reponse here*

And even you should know that if someone generally works, you don't need to come up with "new" arguments to support it, just like astronomers don't have to come up with "new" proof that the Earth isn't flat.

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"Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula?"
-- Barack Obama, campaigning in Iowa

From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000 | IP: Logged

Peter the man
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posted 04-12-2004 06:19 AM $Profile for Peter the man$ $Author's Homepage$ $Email Peter the man$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

Cuba is a fairly functional socialist nation.

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The F-word!
Download as a .doc file here.
Download as a .wav file here.

From: Helsinki, Finland | Registered: Jun 2000 | IP: Logged

Mentar the Malady Monkey
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posted 04-12-2004 11:18 PM $Profile for Mentar the Malady Monkey$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

It's been tried for up to eighty years in two of the largest countries on Earth, plus a bunch of smaller ones, and completely failed to achieve its "classless" and "libertarian" objectives.

*insert standard "Blah blah that wasn't really socialism so it doesn't count wah wah" reponse here*

You and I both know this is total bullshit. I don't even have to address this.

(Hint: "half-assed attempt at socialism followed by careless devolution into totalitarian regime" != "classless society can never exist".)

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WHAT.

From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged

pkthunder
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posted 04-12-2004 11:28 PM $Profile for pkthunder$ $Author's Homepage$ $Email pkthunder$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

quote:
Originally posted by Peter the man:
Cuba is a fairly functional socialist nation.

Sure, that's why half of all Cubans move to Miami to set up their own business.

From: Broomfield, CO | Registered: Feb 2000 | IP: Logged

MewtwoSama
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posted 04-13-2004 12:08 AM $Profile for MewtwoSama$ $Author's Homepage$ $Email MewtwoSama$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

Klingon Dabo girl (lol)

From: Abyss of Evil | Registered: Feb 2000 | IP: Logged

Bulbasaur3000
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posted 04-13-2004 12:14 AM $Profile for Bulbasaur3000$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

Despite having a currency and royalty, I nominate Sweden.

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This signature sucks. Why is it here?

From: Plano, TX =( | Registered: May 2001 | IP: Logged

White Cat
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posted 04-13-2004 02:38 AM $Profile for White Cat$ $Author's Homepage$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

What Mentar doesn't get (or is delibrately not mentioning) is that "libertarian socialism" is just Phase 2 of the plan. Phase 1 is the overthrow of "bourgeoise rule" by the "proletariat", which happened in both Russia and China. However, the second part, where the state "withers away" and we're left with a classless libertarian socialist utopia, never happened. Instead, all the power ended up in the hands of a few Party members, which basically put those countries right back where they were when they had absolute monarchies, or worse.

But by pretending that Phase 2 is the whole deal, Mentar and others like him get to claim that socialism has "never been tried".

- - - - -
"Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula?"
-- Barack Obama, campaigning in Iowa

From: Calgary | Registered: Feb 2000 | IP: Logged

Mentar the Malady Monkey
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posted 04-13-2004 07:54 PM $Profile for Mentar the Malady Monkey$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

But by pretending that Phase 2 is the whole deal, Mentar and others like him get to claim that socialism has "never been tried".

Tribal villages. I know Anthrax mentioned hunter-gatherer societies, but even in substantially large farming villages, the lack of real government was a viable option.

rec. reading: Chinua Achebe - Things Fall Apart

[ 04-13-2004, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: Mentar the Malady Monkey ]

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WHAT.

From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged

NintendoLover
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posted 04-14-2004 06:14 PM $Profile for NintendoLover$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

yeah that worked untill the english dudes came in and ruined those africans shit so much that they were like "damn"

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I love Nintendo!

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Mentar the Malady Monkey
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posted 04-14-2004 06:40 PM $Profile for Mentar the Malady Monkey$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

I know, isn't imperialism wonderful?

From: Pandemonium, HL, Hades | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged

Psybro
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posted 04-14-2004 07:47 PM $Profile for Psybro$ $Email Psybro$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

Africa has managed so wonderfully without it, after all.

God save the Queen.

From: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2000 | IP: Logged

Ancient Egyptian Cat-Gonk
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posted 04-19-2004 08:38 PM $Profile for Ancient Egyptian Cat-Gonk$ $Author's Homepage$ $Send New Private Message$ $Edit/Delete Post$ $Reply With Quote$

quote:
Originally posted by Mentar the Malady Monkey:
Wow. Fucking wow. This whole "lol classless society/libertarian socialism/libertarian communism/anarchism won't work because people are greedy!!!1" is the same fucking argument cappies and totalitarians alike have been using against classless rule for hundreds of years... think maybe anyone would have come up with a better one by now?

commie

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http://www.livejournal.com/users/jetblackvalias

From: Perth, Western Australia. | Registered: Feb 2000 | IP: Logged

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